New Driver w/ Stock Shaft or 2-4 Years Old w/ New Premium Shaft?

[Trickle]

Probably something that has been discussed before but I’m curious… is there better value going brand new driver with stock shaft or going with a couple years removed driver and investing those savings into a premium shaft. All other things equal like fitting and swing analysis and what not.

[cnosil]

24 minutes ago, Trickle said:

Probably something that has been discussed before but I’m curious… is there better value going brand new driver with stock shaft or going with a couple years removed driver and investing those savings into a premium shaft. All other things equal like fitting and swing analysis and what not.

Its best to find the driver and shaft combo that works for you.   Just because a shaft is an aftermarket shaft and costs $500 doesn't mean it will work for you.  There is nothing wrong with stock shafts and one could work really well for your swing.   

[RickyBobby_PR]

Premium shaft doesn’t guarantee better results.

The best option is the one that fits your swing 

A little something from Tom Wishon.

 

Shaft Myth #6 – The more expensive a shaft, the better its quality and the better it performs

There are few things in the golf industry that have become as much of a sore spot with me as this matter of shafts that cost $100, $200, $300 and even more. Shoot, I remember when we all thought a $40 shaft was expensive! What’s even worse are the uninformed golfers who see these $100 – $300 shafts and automatically form the opinion that if it costs that much, it has to be a really good shaft. 

You want to know what the definition of a “good shaft” is? A good shaft is any shaft that has been very accurately matched for its weight, overall stiffness, bend profile, weight distribution and torque to a golfer’s clubhead speed, transition force, downswing tempo, wrist-**** release, strength and sense of feel. That’s the definition of a “good shaft” and it has absolutely nothing to do with brand, model or price. 

There are 5 different specifications that determine the performance differences between shafts. 1) mass (weight); 2) overall stiffness (flex); 3) bend profile (distribution of the stiffness over the length of the shaft); 4) weight distribution (balance point); 5) torsional stiffness (torque). Two of these, the weight and the torque, are definitely related to the cost of the shaft. The lighter the weight and the lower the torque of a shaft, the more expensive the shaft will be to make. In other words, if you want to make a very stiff 45 gram shaft with less than 3? of torque, that shaft is going to cost a lot more money to make than a 65 gram softer flex shaft with 5? of torque. . . but not $100 to $300 by any means. 

The other three shaft design elements, a shaft’s overall stiffness, bend profile and balance point, are not even close to being as price sensitive as the weight and torque. Standard modulus (low cost) graphite raw materials can be used to make any flex, bend profile or balance point from soft L to very stiff X. 

Yes, many of the high dollar shafts are actually made with more expensive raw composite materials. But they don’t need to be made with such expensive materials to achieve their weight, flex, bend profile, balance point and torque. In my career I have measured the specifications of literally thousands of different shafts, and from my experience, I have yet to see a $100 to $300 shaft that could not be duplicated for weight, flex, bend profile, balance point and torque and sold at a normal profit in the industry for an aftermarket price of $25 to $50.

[golfinnut]

New driver.  Heads have faster ball speeds nowadays, plus are more forgiving.    my .02

[TJ Hall]

I think you have to find what works for your swing and you feel comfortable with.  An aftermarket shaft alone isn’t going to make you drive the ball farther.  With a lot of the newer offerings, the stock shafts are not that bad.

[Swood1994]

While I was going to respond to this similar to everyone else about how you have to pick one that best suits you and your swing, I'll look at your original question at face value and with that my answer will New driver stock shaft offerings. The tech in the new head will likely be more forgiving and have more distance. Plus the stock shaft offerings have gotten a lot better over the years.

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, Swood1994 said:

While I was going to respond to this similar to everyone else about how you have to pick one that best suits you and your swing, I'll look at your original question at face value and with that my answer will New driver stock shaft offerings. The tech in the new head will likely be more forgiving and have more distance. Plus the stock shaft offerings have gotten a lot better over the years.

I agree 100%.  Just want to say I also looked at the question at face value.  We, in theory, buy clubs to get better performance and just adding a premium shaft does not necessarily make a 2/3 year old driver better than a new one with stock shaft.  
 

In my experience 2/3 years does not make a lot of difference in performance.  I support the basic premise that 3/5 is a more likely timeframe where you will get “significant” improvement.   

[USMCSnyper]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

Its best to find the driver and shaft combo that works for you.   Just because a shaft is an aftermarket shaft and costs $500 doesn't mean it will work for you.  There is nothing wrong with stock shafts and one could work really well for your swing.   

This times 100!

[tony@CIC]

56 minutes ago, cnosil said:

In my experience 2/3 years does not make a lot of difference in performance.  I support the basic premise that 3/5 is a more likely timeframe where you will get “significant” improvement.   

I agree - and is confirmed by my experience from a TM fitting a few weeks ago. Last year's driver model performed as well as this year's. On the other hand,  I'm getting ready to test a new Darkspeed 3 wood to replace my Radspeed, which is now 4 generations old and hoping for higher performance. 

[MIGregB]

I'm never going to buy a $350+ shaft for any club, new or used. I have the money, I even have a spouse who wouldn't stop me, even though she'd harass mercilessly about being a club ho; I just can't justify it to myself. But unless you have the feel of a tour pro, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of us would never see any improvement over other lower priced after-market shafts that fits our profile. There are LOTS of them sub-$250, many sub-$100. 

But there's an experiment I'd like to try if I was ambitious and organized well enough. Several times I've heard knowledgeable people in the business, people like Tony Covey, Chris Nickel, Ian Fraser, and others, causally mention during a conversation what a great driver such-in-such was back in the day, often to their great surprise. I've never had the ambition at the time to make note of the one mentioned, and then go back to Most Wanted lists and other club ratings from the time to see how they were initially perceived/ranked and whether it has the potential to help with my particular driver issue(s). Then check out eBay/CallawayPreOwned/GlobalGolf to find one cheap, and marry it up with a shaft like Motore X, HZDRUS, Newton (school's still out on whether Newton delivers on its promise, but it looks good so far) or others, that fit my profile. 

When the day comes that I have a reasonable launch monitor, even something as simple as a Flight Scope which gives a pretty good array of numbers, I might give that a try. I think that'd be a fun experiment.

Edited March 20 by MIgregb

[LinksgolfFever]

I would have to say if you are in the market for a replacement, make the replacement count.  Find the Manufacturer your swing works best with, get a new driver.  In my experience the stock shafts that are offered are good/great shafts.  My concern with a shaft replacement is all of what was mentioned above, no promise for improvement and you'll most likely be at least half in for a new driver.  Go to a fitting day, hit a bunch of balls and find one you like. 

 

Cheers,

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, MIgregb said:

But unless you have the feel of a tour pro, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of us would never see any improvement over other lower priced after-market shafts that fits our profile. There are LOTS of them sub-$250, many sub-$100. 

Will disagree based on fittings posted here and elsewhere with people seeing with 100mph and less see better results from a premium shaft compared to no upcharge shafts. 
 

 

[MIGregB]

23 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Will disagree based on fittings posted here and elsewhere with people seeing with 100mph and less see better results from a premium shaft compared to no upcharge shafts. 
 

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about no upcharge shafts performing just as well, even for us amateurs. Pretty early on, a price tag of $500 was mentioned and the premise of the thread was whether an older driver head matched with a "premium" shaft would be more beneficial than a new driver with a stock shaft. My only point was that a much less expensive premium shaft would work just as well for the majority of us than an expensive shaft, so you don't have to pay $500+ to get improved performance. Your UST Helium shaft is a perfect example. It's under $300 from what I can see.

There is no doubt in my mind what-so-ever that a premium shaft will outperform a stock shaft in the vast majority of cases, maybe in all cases. But I don't think that could be said for a less expensive premium shaft vs. a crazy expensive shaft, at least for the majority of us. Now, if someone has the experience of testing sub $250 upmarket shafts along with $500+ upmarket shafts, and there was demonstrated benefit to that $500+ shaft, then I apologize and stand corrected.

Edited March 20 by MIgregb

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

My only point was that a much less expensive premium shaft would work just as well for the majority of us than an expensive shaft, so you don't have to pay $500+ to get improved performance.

For most people yes, manufacturers pick shafts for their matrix that will fit a wide variety of golfers. Performance of a shaft has nothing to do with the cost. Some no upcharge shafts are actually premium shafts that shaft manufactures want to get into people’s hands and some with club manufacturers to work out a deal to make them no upcharge. Rogue white, tensei pro shafts in a couple manufacturers.

5 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

There is no doubt on my mind what-so-ever that a premium shaft will outperform a stock shaft in the vast majority of cases, maybe in all cases. But I don't think that could be said for a less expensive premium shaft vs. a crazy expensive shaft, at least for the majority of us

Not always. We can use the made for ventus and the ventus velocore shafts as an example. Several here have been fit by TM and had the made for shaft outperform the velocore version.

Again to the bolded part price is irrelevant to determining performance. And pretty much every premium shaft falls between $300-375. Not that many premium shafts over $375.

The point is that people can notice a difference even without a tour feel in their game and a some have gone thru good fittings and a noticeable difference can be felt. Regardless of price or materials a cheap shaft can be better for some golfers over an expensive. The only bad shaft is the one that doesn’t fit the golfer