Ben_Howell34
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Posts posted by Ben_Howell34
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On 7/19/2023 at 12:41 PM, Matty 3-Putts said:
After watching videos from BustaJack and Zac Radford, I knew I had to schedule a trip to the St. George area. I started planning in March and scheduled tee times for mid-June for a 3 day golf extravaganza (my first golf-centric vacation ever). Plan was to drive from Colorado Springs (11 Hrs), play 3 courses in 3 days and drive back. Had to leave some time to do some touristy stuff with the GF.
Itinerary was such: Sand Hollow Resort on Thursday, Copper Rock on Friday, Sky Mountain on Saturday. I stayed at the Hampton Inn SunRiver south of STG.
Sand Hollow - This place did NOT disappoint. Staff was friendly and amenities were excellent. Even the short drive to the practice area had incredible rock formations, with a top-tier driving range and putting green. Club house is beautiful and a solid pro shop. Range balls were fresh Callaways and plastic tees were provided on the range. Playing as a single paired with a 3-some, they actually let me go off early by myself and me and the gf got to enjoy the scenery together (Didn't even charge me an extra rider fee).
The course itself was in excellent condition. There were few if at all GUR areas or scorched fairway spots, but the greens were excellent and the fairways and rough were lush. My only real complaint about the course is the red clay bunkers; these are incredibly difficult to hit out of and due to the nature of native dirt, they were bumpy with small rocks throughout. Very penalizing.
The back 9 is certainly where this place shines. While the front 9 had plenty of rock formations and great scenes, the views coming up to and through hole 12 were spectacular. Even the cart ride down hole 12 was like a scenic tour. The Par 3 15th is brutal from the tips, 235yds with death everywhere!
I shot 81 from the tips with a few doubles. It's not an overly difficult course, wide fairways and everything is playable if you can find it (no OB on most the course). Very fun course to play, and just a surreal setting. Even the final hole gives you 1 more spectacular view as a classy parting gift.
Price: $145, Views: 5/5, Layout 4/5, Condition 5/5
Copper Rock - Starting with a drizzly morning, the course seemed quite empty and we once again were allowed to tee off solo. The clubhouse was small but very nice, with a small pro shop and eating area but with quality goods (their merch was the best of the trip IMO). The cart drive to the practice area and 1st tee was a good distance and worried to get lost, but once again had an excellent practice area with good range balls and tees available.
This course really exceeded my expectations. While it doesn't have the flash of Sand Hollow, the setting was unique with the cliff face in the backdrop of every hole. Course was in excellent condition, great rolling greens and nothing to complain about in that regard. I played 1 tee box up from the tips, the course is LONG from the far-back, with many of those tee boxes 50-75 yards back from where I was playing. It was a comfortable distance with the cold weather hurting my distance (been years since I smashed driver and only saw 270 off the tee.. Ball was just not carrying)
The layout may have been my favorite of the week. Lots of chances to hit the big dawg and a good mix of strategic holes, risk/reward, and punishing areas. I love a place that isn't afraid to put a short/challenging Par 3 when it's beating you up with distance the rest of the time, like you get here with the 17th.
The weather held out for us and got sunny as the round closed. The overall aesthetic of the surrounding homes and structures, course, manmade creeks and ponds really was spectacular. Given that Sand Hollow was the pièce de résistance of my trip, this place was the big surprise to me. I shot 80 with a double to finish and plenty on the table for next time.
Price: $88, Views: 4/5, Layout: 5/5, Condition: 5/5
Sky Mountain - In summation, I would describe Sky Mountain as a $50 course with a Million Dollar view. It had the feel more of your normal public muni, lots of people and an outdated clubhouse. I was charged for range balls here, which was a mix of old range balls and other randos in the mix. The putting green was nice however, and the course may have the best view off the driving range of anywhere I've played.
I was paired with a 3-some and we played 1 up from the tips. The course is tight and not very long whatsoever, in fact my distance probably hurt me from these tee boxes and I had a hard time keeping it out of trouble.
Fairways and greens were okay, they weren't rolling as well as the days previous (big surprise) and ground under repair was a somewhat common occurrence throughout. I got caught in several areas with poor lies due to spotty rough or fairway. I also felt like they didn't really take advantage of the amazing view from the practice area. You pretty much had the opening hole pointing down at the rock formations, then turned away through houses, and came back to pointing at it in the final 2 holes.
I personally was not a massive fan of the layout. There were very few "good holes," and while it wasn't a down-and-back city park course, they seemingly added doglegs and obstructions in places to try to make it more interesting, but still came off as bland. It may have been more exciting if I played it first, but I was a little unimpressed after what I had the days prior. This was slightly disappointing in addition to them charging for range balls and the extra rider, which brought the price of the round over Cooper Rock, which they are not even in the same league. That said, I would still consider this a place you must go to just to get the full St George experience. If you need a filler round that shouldnt be as expensive, I would still recommend it. I shot 80, once again with a double to finish. I just can't seem to finish strong out here!
Price: $90, Views: 5/5 mixed with some 2/5, Layout 3/5, Condition 3/5
Final notes - St. George may have turned into my new favorite vacation destination! I didn't even come close to playing everywhere I could have, leaving plenty of room to come back. Next on my list to play would be Ledges, Coral Canyon, Black Desert, and I would like to play the Dixie Red 9 hole, but I could not go back again without playing Sand Hollow and Copper Rock. Pricing around the area was very reasonable and cheaper than where I live overall from hotel pricing, food, gas, and the actual price of tee times. On the minus side, Utah really needs to get their sh** together with their liquor laws... Bev carts can't start serving till 11:00, nothing other than 5% beer anywhere you go, and absolutely zero night life to speak of. Thankfully I dont have to drink to have a good time on the course, but with the amount of complaining I heard from other people, it does put a damper on the fun you COULD have if they lightened up. Just play golf all day and go to sleep early and you shouldn't be too disappointed! Just pack your own provisions if you have to.
Question: what time of year did you go? We are going in late April. Did you feel like pace of play was good? Have heard it gets slow out there, but a lot of review forums can’t be trusted either (besides your review of course
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Played Timberline the other day, short par 4, 280 or so. Me and two other guys. First guy gets up there and drives the green. Other buddy says “that’s the best shot I’ve ever seen on this hole” I reply “you watching?” as I tee it up. I then hit it 3-4 feet past my buddy. I then proceed to make a 30 foot eagle putt! 3rd eagle ever!
(Don’t worry, I doubled the next hole to make up for it)
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12 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:
Define obsolete.
Much further than who/what/when?
Equipment and ball haven’t changed in 20 years
Define relevant
also the courses having to grow or longer courses needed has been debunked by the superintendents associations study along with the data that shows courses are built at 6700ish yards in the last 5-10 years and have been built shorter than the previous 10 years of that
That’s someone who doesn’t understand hitting the ball long and with some accuracy like the pros is a skill itself, and hit doesn’t take any skill away. Good to great golfers still need to hit good iron shots, have to be good with the wedges (see how much better dj got when he developed a wedge game compare to just bombing and then hoping he could hit the wedge the way he wanted)
did he think jacks distance took away skills? What about Tiger’s, Phil’s or Vijay’s distance. Did it take away their skills
Brian Harmon, Colin Morikawa to name a few that aren’t that long yet have won on tour including majors. Lots of skills involved in playing good golf.
Also, on top of all of this, rolling the ball back will put even more emphasis on distance in my opinion, not less. If you look at strokes gained, distance is a bigger deal for amateurs than it is for The pros believe it or not. I tend to think that’s because they all hit it pretty dang far already, even the “short” guys.
- RickyBobby_PR, Beakbryce, Rtracymog and 1 other
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With that being said, on a budget RTJ is a great option. Birmingham and Huntsville are both fun cities and have great courses around besides RTJ that you can play.
- crb128 and Rob Person
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I agree with Vandyland. Big Cedar will be much more expensive but worth it in my opinion. I live in AL and the RTJ courses are great but Big Cedar is another level. I went in April of 2022 and it was immaculate. If you stay in the anglers lodge hotel it make it much more affordable as well. Osage is an awesome restaurant also. Top of the Rock par 3 is expensive but incredibly fun.
- Headhammer, vandyland, Rob Person and 1 other
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2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:
That is based on the ruling bodies data which so far has been proven false even in their own testing. Mr. Pagel in an interview stated in their testing a golfer with a 221 yard drive saw a loss of 11 yards. In testing by Srixon all their testers lost distance and didn’t like it. Keegan Bradley saw 30-40 yards and Lucas gloved was only hitting 240 yard drives. So until the ruling bodies produce their data that shows these states claims of 8-15 yards for guys in the 115+, 5-7 for lpga/let pros and 3-5 for the average golfer. They are just claims and not facts. Also they have produced very little about affects on iron play.
As for the 6% losing distance because some organization doesn’t like how a pro tour sets up their courses can take the fun out of the game. There are lots of golfers the at play just for fun. When the game isn’t fun anymore people leave. I have friends who quit golf in the last year because it wasn’t fun anymore and these are guys that are carrying 5 hdcp or lower.
If the changes are as drastic as you say I can understand possibly quitting, although I doubt I would. Why did your friends quit? We will see. Both sides obviously have an agenda, but I don’t really see how adding 5 MPH to the test would take 40 yards off a drive. I think it’s also tough to know what the ball will be like in 2028-2030 once the manufactures have had 4-6 years to produce this ball. Who knows what the ball looks like that is conforming to the new rules right now for testing, it may have other factors that have slowed it down.
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10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:
You should go back further because this talking point has been debunked.
Average driving distance has gone up from 289 to 299 in the last 20 years because access to launch monitors helped optimize ball flight rather than relying on the eye test. Golfers are more athletic now and train better in the gym. You don’t have to lengthen. Courses because more people hit to 300 while the top end of distance hasn’t changed. People don’t like more pros hitting it further than their idols. Also the pga tour has chosen to keep the courses around the same length over the last 20 years because on the pro tour there isn’t a distance problem. It’s a problem created by the ruling bodies.
The strokes gained cat is out of the bag and it’s not going back in. Distance will always be a premium going forward and the further they lengthen courses or reduce distance the faster the pros will get. The ones that can’t will be off the tour. Sasho Mackenzie has explained this and the ruling bodies have chosen not to talk with him about it. Go check out the data, pros use more than a wedge or mid irons when they play. If they didn’t then they are just punishing their caddies by making them carry a full bag
Nope. Broadie has published data on this when the ball is shortened or thru a club change that reduce distance it’s the same as lengthening courses and it gives the longer hitter the strokes gained advantage and what it does is create more golfers who hit farther because distance is now a bigger advantage
It’s the same ball makeup as what’s at retail that you and the rest of us can. Hy, they match the same specs. There is no difference.
In a poll after the announcement 6% of golfers said they would quit. That is a lot and not good for the sport. The sport is in a great place and you don’t change the game and risk making it worse.
baseball lowered the mound because of dominant pitchers and to give the hitters a chance and to increase the offense.
golf hasn’t gotten out of hand at the pro level. Max distance is the same as it was in 2003 and average distance is up only 10 yards in the last 20 years. Scoring Verage is basically unchanged in that time.
So far the USGA hasn’t proved that 7 yards will be the distance loss. Their own testing shows an 11 yard loss on a 221 yard drive. Srixon testing shows 30+ yards for their pros and the non pros weren’t happy with the results either
An article from GOLF posted 6 days ago says 15 yards max for the elite PGA longest drivers. 5-6 yards for an amateur.
Personally, I don’t really care either way. I would probably leave as is, but I understand what they are thinking. What I don’t understand is everyone freaking out about not playing the same ball. Believe it or not we are not on the same playing field as pros. If you go to Pebble and shoot 65 you didn’t achieve something Tiger did. Every sport has changes as you move up: football size gets bigger/different, rules change from high school to college to pro, baseball uses aluminum bats till pro, basketball courts aren’t as big, longer 3 point line, etc.
I have no right to say I don’t believe the 6% who said they’d quit, but if someone likes golf I do have a really hard time believing they will just up and quit due to a *slight* equipment change that will affect the longest hitters the most. Maybe try it post change and see what happens?
- HikingMike and racingdaly
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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:
Again this is just wrong. The balls the pros play are to the same specs that the retail balls are. They are the same makeup and have to meet the conforming specs per the ODS. You can see that on the conforming list of equipment. Pro’s aren’t getting some magic ball. The prototypes they play lead to what comes in future releases of retail balls. See the articles about left dash and left dot prov1 line.
We have limits on what the equipment can do, its size, weight, etc. what’s not capped is how they get there, whether it’s the use of AI, materials used in aerospace, the manufacturing process.
Just like there isn’t one ball on the market there isn’t one club either. It’s why some people get along with one brand and not another. The designs are different enough that they perform differently for each golfer.
Yeah, so they aren’t playing the same ball as us because those were not out yet. We eventually have access to those but they are on the cutting edge all the time. They also have unlimited supply to brand new balls without being in X condition, etc. I guess I should not have said tweak as they don’t just get to say “take X off and add Y” but they do have some say in the ball as I understand it (could be wrong).
Again, I just don’t understand the issue here. Sports change equipment all the time based on how the sport has changed. Think lowering the mound in 1969. There will not be a large % of the golfing population quit because they lost 7 yards off their drives. I’m not saying this will “make golf great again” (I personally love the game now) but if they don’t change something I do think it will get out of hand on the pro level. By the time this supposedly goes into effect these pros will probably be hitting these drives to the same distance they are now with the slower ball.
- cksurfdude, DaveP043 and racingdaly
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On 2/2/2021 at 9:07 AM, Shapotomous said:
I never really understood the distress over bifurcation.
Most sports have rules & equipment differences between professional and non professional ranks, between mens and womens leagues of the same sport and rules differences between USA leagues and international play for some sports as well. Whatever level you want to play at just use the approved equipment and play by the rules established for that competition.
Also the notion that we play the same ball as the pros is really a fallacy. They all get their equipment tweaked and changed to their preferences. And right now there are limits on the golf ball. So I just don’t get the fuss on this.
- chisag and cksurfdude
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On 11/29/2023 at 9:27 PM, Ben Joest said:
Recent purchases, some have arrived, others are in some state of transit:
Arrived today:
No idea if they are any good, but damn, i like the look of them
Re-gripped with a midsize MCC +4 and ready for a range session tomorrow
Presumably being built:
For 20 bucks, it was a no lose proposition.
Shipping from the Desert soon:
4i-PW recoil 110 f4 shafts
Not sure if they will go into the Titleist irons or perhaps if i stumble across the right set of blade heads. We shall see.
Who makes those grips??
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6 hours ago, hohjoe said:
That was a good game, maybe the best one of the day. I was surprised Auburn didn't put more pressure on the QB on that last play and gave the guy so much time.
Not only that, but they drop 8 and ran man defense, not zone. They have to score a TD. Made no sense. And spyed the QB!
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What a game in Auburn, and the Tide pulls one out of thin air. On the 10th anniversary of the “Kick 6” too, no less. I remember in the weeks following that game that Malzahn was taking over the SEC, the game had passed Saban by and he would probably leave for Texas or the NFL. Since then:
3 National Titles, 6 SEC Titles
113-13 record
8-2 vs Auburn
9-1 vs Tennessee
8-2 vs LSU
5-1 vs UGA
whoops
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I know @Mtbryant01 has, he might could help
- DeBartola_B and BallsLeon
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5 hours ago, CFreddie said:
We are playing Highland Park and the new short course at Oxmoor as well. Will check out Ballentrae - could be a good place to add on another round.
Bent Brook and Timberline are solid also. If you wanna drive an hour out and pay a good bit more but play a sick course, check out Farmlinks at Pursell Farms. It is awesome but they are proud of it.
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4 hours ago, CFreddie said:
We are playing Highland Park and the new short course at Oxmoor as well. Will check out Ballentrae - could be a good place to add on another round.
Ballantrae is great. If you go after noon on a weekday it is like $50 with a cart I think.
Where are you staying?
- cksurfdude and sirchunksalot
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1 hour ago, CFreddie said:
So true...our March guys trip is to Ross Bridge & Oxmoor Valley. I've heard RB is a BEAST (especially if you play from the tips, which are 8000+ yards
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Yeah 8k is too much. But Ross Bridge is fun and they just redid it as well.
If you have a chance while down here, go play either Ballantrae or Highland Park. Both are great. Highland Park is short but a really fun course (120 years old downtown Bham) and Ballantrae is best bang for your buck around. Great greens and great layout.
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12 hours ago, Dead Solid Bogey said:
I actually liked being humbled on the Old Waverly course, it was a beautifully dangerous venue… The linkish Mossy Point course was just as humbling but not quite the same esthetic of a venue.
While playing in your state on part of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail; I was looking more like the Lewis&Clark Expedition than a golfer. I am aware of the underlying theme of my lack of golfing ability coming to the forefront wherever I show up and attempt to show out. Evidently I am a glutton for punishment when it comes to golf courses.
Yes, the RTJ courses go from very hard to hellaciously ridiculous
- CFreddie, cksurfdude and Golfspy_CG2
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3 hours ago, Dead Solid Bogey said:
Is there a vetting process for those applying to attend? As far as non-Texas venues; while sort of a pain to get to, The golf resort(s) around Starkville Mississippi; Old Waverly and Mossy Point offer a varied golf experience on these two courses. Will be interesting to see what you all come up with.
I live in AL and I will second this. Really really good courses with some cool cottages. Not too far from Columbus or Starkville so you can go there if you want to go out, but the food there is top notch as well. Old Waverly is top 3 course I’ve ever played.
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8 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:
Thanks Chuck!
So, Sand Valley is definitely on the list of candidates every year, and every year I’m sure we’ll get pricing, but frankly they’re not the most budget-friendly.
The main goal is to find a site that allows for the community and camaraderie when not on the course from a lodging perspective, and is also reasonably priced to make sure it’s affordable for the bulk of the membership. Places like Sand Valley and Big Cedar Lodge (which we also looked into) are very much on the high end of things as far as lodging costs.Rest assured, I think we (primarily Rob) have found a really good package that will produce another awesome experience for everyone.
I have been to Big Cedar Lodge and the golf is truly incredible. However you do pay for it. Getting the hotel option makes it a lot (I mean a lot) cheaper but it does take away some of the “hangout” portion at night. Although there are some cool areas to go close and hang out and a few good restaurants to choose from as well.
- IndyBonzo, cksurfdude, Golfspy_CG2 and 1 other
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On 11/6/2023 at 3:27 PM, KC Golf said:
Hit your second shot to your ideal approach shot distance for your third shot on a par 5…
That’s bad advice. Ha
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Anyone have any traditional golf advice they don’t like to follow, or just plain believe is wrong? For example, mine is “never be short sided.” Depending on the hole, I’d rather be closer to the pin and right off the green than have a 40 foot two putt. Obviously not if the green falls off a cliff besides the pin but on more holes than not I’d rather chip from close than putt from far.
Just curious what other “bad” advice is out there I should reconsider!
- cksurfdude and Byrnzee
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On 10/19/2023 at 8:50 AM, Ben Joest said:
@Ben_Howell34, @scubahoops, @Blaine Dye, @ScramblinMan, & @JeremyD
As the end of the 2023 golf season approaches, a couple of questions for the testers:
- Are you still wearing the Sqairz?
- Do you plan to wear them next season?
- Now that you are a couple months past the final review, any issues with durability?
- Lastly, will your next pair of golf shoes, be a pair of Sqairz?
Thanks in advance for the feedback. And good job on the reviews, I enjoyed reading them.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No durability issues thus far
4. Most likely, but not sure. Hope it is awhile before I need new shoes.
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Got to play charity scramble at the beautiful Indian Hills CC in Tuscaloosa. Best shape I’ve seen it in and we were lucky enough to come in first. The spoils we two boxes of ProV1’s, two hats and a nice polo.
- sirchunksalot, MattF, cksurfdude and 4 others
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On 9/25/2023 at 6:15 PM, ScramblinMan said:
Use this tool. You can get it at Walmart for about $5
Awesome thank you!
St. George Utah Spectactular
in Golf Courses & Travel
Posted
Thanks Matt. I am sure it is overblown, and it’s a golf trip anyway so not as worried about pace of play. Thanks!