What don't you like?

[revkev]

You are spot on Kenny and it gets better because of you miss long or left your ball ends up in the third faiway creating all kinds of issues there.

 

The 3rd is a very solid short par 4. There are several good holes on this course. Its as if it had 2 architects.

 

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[GolfSpyC]

Great thread here gents! For me, it's a couple holes at a course I play quite often. On the back 9 there are two 5-pars (Just for Johnny) - both of which take driver out of your hand off the tee - I love it when a hole gives you options, but on the first of the two there's a water hazard/ditch that's about 15 yards wide that runs diagonally across the fairway at about 280 yards out. There is no risk/reward here - You just hit something 235-255 out there and have 275 or so left in - I guess there are some guys who can carry it 290+ and might go for it, but it's not worth a full shot to do so...

 

The 2nd par 5 is worse. It's a blind tee shot with a road down the left-side and a huge ravine about 225 yards out....If you hit it dead straight and 225, you're good. Dead straight and 235...gunga galunga....If you want to really get aggressive you have to hit something about 265 and try to snap it around the corner (for a righty) - So the most intelligent way to play the hole is to go 6 iron, 7 iron, wedge...And for a course with only 3 par-5s, you have two that really take driver out of your hand...ugh...

[Chris O.]

This hole is the bane of my existence...there is OB right down the entire hole and red stakes down the left. You tee off slightly down hill and I've never played this hole into the wind, if it's blowing, it's at your back. From the tees I play, anything carrying over 250 is off the end of the fairway, which leaves well over 300 to the green. The "smart" layup area still leaves you about 140-170 out depending on how well the second shot is hit. So if I somehow manage to hit all my spots I'm left trying to hit this wicked green. The green is by far the worst part of this hole. You're hitting down hill to a crowned green that is 8ish paces front to back and 30ish yards wide. They shave the grass around the green so any missed green filters down to the bottom and leaves you with a flop shot because the green is at about eye level. I've gone back and forth more times than I can count. It's sad to say but I'm happy when I walk away with bogey. This hole is a round killer! It's #16 so it just lingers in my mind the whole round. This hole sums up what I don't like about courses. However I will add that even though I dislike this hole, I can say that it is brilliantly designed. It is just above my skill level.

 

 

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[J_Wurz]

I have a par 5 I grew up on that is only 465. It has out of bounds and trees up the entire right side only about 20 yds off the crowned fairway. Forgot to mention you either have to hit a fade or a power draw around a 100 year old 200ft tall oak tree 200 yards out in the middle of the fairway. If you can hit it high enough you can go over. I hate it! I have gotten everything from eagle to quad! To boot, it usually plays into a 15mph south wind.

 

 

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[J_Wurz]

 

This is an aerial shot of the hole.

 

 

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[EthanSterlingPrice]

Hmm this is a tricky one, I don't necessarily hate any design aspect. I would say long forced carries are tricky for me if I had to pick something.

 

 

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[Peaksy68]

Forced layups from the tee on par 5s or long par 4s.

 

Fairways that are narrower than the green.

 

Of course trees in the middle of the fairway aren't great, if they are positioned well and have an impact on strategy it's ok, but they shouldn't fully dominate a hole.

 

Bunkers in the middle of the fairway aren't great, but when the slope of the fairway feeds everything in like a funnel it's ridiculous.

 

 

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[SuperDave]

That's a favorite gimmick on local courses. If you play the course every day, you get used to where to hit the ball and know what to expect. It's a different story if you have never played the course. I have played courses where they have installed a mirror on a tall tree or pole, so you can see if the group in front of you is out of the landing area. At one course I was informed that the mirror was there during my second round!!!

One course near where I live has a bell next to the green. When you get there, you ring it so the next group knows it's safe to tee off.

 

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[revkev]

Bells, targets been there done that. I used to play a course that has power lines running through on 18. The rule was that if you hit them you try it your shot. The thing is that the course was built in the 20's so it was designed before the lines were there.

 

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[Kenny B]

My old course used to be a farmer's field many years ago, and there are power poles and lines running to three pump houses that watered the fields and now the course.  Unfortunately, both lines and poles are in play on several holes.  When some of the sprinklers don't work, it's likely that somebody's ball hit a transformer or breaker on a pole.  I've done it, and on a Sunday the city repair crews won't come out.  When the temperature is 110*, it doesn't take long for the grass to start turning brown!!

[PMookie]

Elevated greens. Down here in Louisiana where I live, almost EVERY hole on EVERY course is elevated about 3'-4'. They do it because of the high water table and very flat land, but it drives me nuts. One can't "run" a shot into a green, can't chip and run anything either. It all has to carry on to the green. If a ball lands in the facing of the edge, it just dies. It's so aggravating and it's so unimaginative. The course I play all of the time, all EIGHTEEN greens have this elevation.

 

 

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[Kenny B]

Elevated greens. Down here in Louisiana where I live, almost EVERY hole on EVERY course is elevated about 3'-4'. They do it because of the high water table and very flat land, but it drives me nuts. One can't "run" a shot into a green, can't chip and run anything either. It all has to carry on to the green. If a ball lands in the facing of the edge, it just dies. It's so aggravating and it's so unimaginative. The course I play all of the time, all EIGHTEEN greens have this elevation.

 

 

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I agree!!  I don't mind some elevated greens, but I also think there should be options.  If you get out of position on a hole and can't fly the ball on the green, there should be another option.  My wife is very good at running balls up on a green if she is too far away to fly it onto a green.  She can run a ball up between bunkers, but if it's all carry, and the bunkers are too close, then she will lay up, essentially wasting a shot rather than attempt a futile shot.  That's not a design that encourages "growing the game".

[cksurfdude]

I agree!! I don't mind some elevated greens, but I also think there should be options. If you get out of position on a hole and can't fly the ball on the green, there should be another option. My wife is very good at running balls up on a green if she is too far away to fly it onto a green. She can run a ball up between bunkers, but if it's all carry, and the bunkers are too close, then she will lay up, essentially wasting a shot rather than attempt a futile shot. That's not a design that encourages "growing the game".

Totally agree there - very similar situation here .. there are courses that my wife won't go to (or go back to..) with me just because it's too difficult / no fun for her.

 

(So one answer is to spend more $$ on a golf school vacation to try and get her confidence up! Yeah yeah: and mine )

 

So we stick to a few of the more "player friendly" tracks near us.

[alfriday101]

I find this thread interesting.  I agree with many of the pet peeves discussed above.  But then I think of some of the most memorable holes I've played and they definitely fit some of the descriptions of hated holes.  

 

The Himalayas at Prestwick, a par three over a major hill to a green totally hidden from view on the tee.  There are three circular discs on the hill and the caddies tell you which disc to hit over depending on the pin location.  

 

The Dell at La Hinch, a blind par three to a long, narrow green surrounded by 20 foot high dunes.  

 

Number 17 at Royal Dornoch.  A blind tee shot that runs down a steep slope to a fairway completely hidden from the tee.  This is probably my favorite hole I've ever played.  

 

Sand Hills #8.  A drivable par four with a collection bunker smack dap in front of the green.

 

#2 at Dornoch.  All the par threes have steep sides and raised fronts.  As they say, the hardest shot in golf is your second on a par three at Dornoch if you miss the green from the tee.  

 

I guess these are the exceptions to the rules.   

[sp0rtsfan86]

I love trees in tough places. One of my home courses has two trees removed which dramatically changed the way you played the holes. One was on a really tough par 4, just off the right side of the green and overlooked the peanut green. Basically if you went right, you had to play a low shot over a bunker but under a tree which destroyed so many scorecards. Now that it's gone, the green is much easier and leaving your shot right is the smart play. 

On the next hole a tree protected going for it in two and you needed a perfect drive to have an angle at the green which wasn't super protected. Now they've added a bunch of bunkers near the green after taking out the tree. Basically what they've done is making going for it in two look easy, but if you're like me and play a low shot, it's nearly impossible to hit and hold the green.  

 

My biggest pet peeve is uneven tees or long grass on tee boxes. As for designs, I'm not a huge fans of big greens. I'd rather be off a green than putt from 40 yards away. 

[revkev]

Elevated greens. Down here in Louisiana where I live, almost EVERY hole on EVERY course is elevated about 3'-4'. They do it because of the high water table and very flat land, but it drives me nuts. One can't "run" a shot into a green, can't chip and run anything either. It all has to carry on to the green. If a ball lands in the facing of the edge, it just dies. It's so aggravating and it's so unimaginative. The course I play all of the time, all EIGHTEEN greens have this elevation.

 

 

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Add me to the list of people who agree. A few of them are okay but I've been at places that are obsessive.

 

Bayou has a couple but they make sense. 7 is a medium length par five and the little elevation makes it tough for a big hitter to knock it on in 2 and means that your short iron in must be well struck. Ten is very elevated so again that approach shot best be perfect.

 

The long par 4's all have ways to bounce it on but they aren't easy. Miss your run up and you have a long bunker shot or a grass bunker to deal with.

 

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[Rtracymog]

Any par 5 where you have to lay up with your tee shot!

 

 

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[Kenny B]

Any par 5 where you have to lay up with your tee shot!

 

 

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I have never met one of those!  

[revkev]

I think Kenny was poking fun at his current lack of distance but just in case he's not I could introduce you to some.  They seem like a cheap way of turning what should be a par 4 into a par 5 to me.  Now if its a 5 that causes you to have to choose whether to hit driver or not I'm all in - I can think of a few of those - you can hit driver but maybe you don't want to because your best driver takes you to where it's a bit tighter or it leaves you a yardage that forces you to struggle about whether to go or not.

[Kenny B]

I think Kenny was poking fun at his current lack of distance but just in case he's not I could introduce you to some.  They seem like a cheap way of turning what should be a par 4 into a par 5 to me.  Now if its a 5 that causes you to have to choose whether to hit driver or not I'm all in - I can think of a few of those - you can hit driver but maybe you don't want to because your best driver takes you to where it's a bit tighter or it leaves you a yardage that forces you to struggle about whether to go or not.

I was...  what I don't like are hazards that cut across the fairway of a par 4 forcing a layup WHEN my best second shot won't reach the green, essentially making the hole a par 5 for me  If it's a par 5 and you can choose to layup or fly the hazard, fine; that's part of the design.  If the fairway of a par 5 is just tight in your landing zone with bunkers, trees, etc and you choose to layup, I'm OK with that too.  I'm probably going to hit driver anyway.

 

I guess I actually lied when I said that I have never met one of those.  There is a course in town that has a downhill par 5 with a desert area across the fairway around 240, and the desert area is 40 yards wide.  Trust me, you do not want to be in the desert!  Most of the time it is not in play for me, but depending on the wind, I can reach it with driver.  I will still hit driver just back off a little.  

 

EDIT:  This was one of the courses that observed the WSGA rating this summer.

[Rtracymog]

I have never met one of those!

There are some courses around my area in Michigan #2 at inkster valley, the monster at Brae Burn, a hole along the road at Hickory Creek and a hole we play in Canada where you hit a 230-245 yard shot to a 90 degree dogleg with a ton of overhanging trees where you still have about 250 plus in. There isn't a chance to hit driver because the landing area is dead pan and about 20 yards wide with nothing but forest around.

 

 

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[ole gray]

Tee boxes that are set up so close to the left or right side (depending on your shot shape) of the hole that you can't play your natural shot.   

 

We have one hole (#9) where the location of the tee box can be set up to favor a draw and then another one where you have to play a fade.   When they move the tees over to the far right, those who have a natural right to left shot shape are screwed.  

[Kenny B]

Tee boxes that are set up so close to the left or right side (depending on your shot shape) of the hole that you can't play your natural shot. 

 

We have one hole (#9) where the location of the tee box can be set up to favor a draw and then another one where you have to play a fade.   When they move the tees over to the far right, those who have a natural right to left shot shape are screwed.

haha!  I'd forgotten about that one.  I was playing with some friends in Tennessee a few years ago and one of them from Ohio plays a medium fade.  He's an 8 so a pretty good stick, but looking down the chute of trees there is no way that he could hit a shot and keep it in the short grass.  He hit his tee shot as close to the left trees without hitting them and barely stayed in the rough on the right, almost going into the trees on the right.  It really does help to be able to move your shots both ways.  A few shots like that on a course are good; it makes people realize that they may need to improve ball-striking, but a heavy dose is just mean. 

[ole gray]

haha!  I'd forgotten about that one.  I was playing with some friends in Tennessee a few years ago and one of them from Ohio plays a medium fade.  He's an 8 so a pretty good stick, but looking down the chute of trees there is no way that he could hit a shot and keep it in the short grass.  He hit his tee shot as close to the left trees without hitting them and barely stayed in the rough on the right, almost going into the trees on the right.  It really does help to be able to move your shots both ways.  A few shots like that on a course are good; it makes people realize that they may need to improve ball-striking, but a heavy dose is just mean. 

 

Yup!    It get's in your head even if you know how to bend it both ways. I've been a hooker all my life however I have learned to fade the ball so it's possible for me to pull one off.  Problem being when I aim left to fade it back and pull a double cross.....  

[Kenny B]

Yup!    It get's in your head even if you know how to bend it both ways. I've been a hooker all my life however I have learned to fade the ball so it's possible for me to pull one off.  Problem being when I aim left to fade it back and pull a double cross.....

You and the pros!  I see them do it all the time.

[sp0rtsfan86]

Bells, targets been there done that. I used to play a course that has power lines running through on 18. The rule was that if you hit them you try it your shot. The thing is that the course was built in the 20's so it was designed before the lines were there.

 

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Missisisippi States course is the same. I've hit them once or twice that ruined perfect drives . Another course in NJ has powerlines in between a long walk between holes. At dusk it's eiery hearing the crackling. That doesn't bother me.

Perhaps my biggest gripe is a par 3 I play now. The course was absolutly let go for years, the current owner is fixing everything although the biggest problem is the par 3 over water on 17. The tee box is slanted heavily uphill for a righty, meaning your playing the shot around ankle or shin high. It wouldnt be an issue to draw the ball but trees are tight on the right of the tee. Basically if you draw, you have to go left side of the green/rough and chip it close for par. If you go left, you pray you make it through the branches. It's ruined a ton of scorecards.

[Lonnie96]

I really despise a steep faced bunker 250 to 260 out on tight tree line courses.Not only is the drive narrow and demanding but the severe bunkers make it worse.A bad kick here or there and it's bogey or double after a decent drive.Hate it

[revkev]

I really despise a steep faced bunker 250 to 260 out on tight tree line courses.Not only is the drive narrow and demanding but the severe bunkers make it worse.A bad kick here or there and it's bogey or double after a decent drive.Hate it

Not for me.

 

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[cksurfdude]

[Liberty Ball Markers]

IMG_20161130_113159.jpg

That is awesome!!!

 

 

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