NiftyNiblick Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Does this guy simply not believe in non-offset putters? It seems as though he's writing off that entire market segment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 https://www.scottycameron.com/putters/futura/futura-5s/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 What putter company offers zero offset in all of their putters? Offset is part of design to get proper toe hang to match stroke. I recommend checking out the Scotty Cameron YouTube channel and watch the videos that explain every aspect of designs on his putter Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 A center shafted putter (which Scotty make plenty of) inherently has no offset. I am not sure what you mean? Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Offset is part of design to get proper toe hang to match stroke. I recommend checking out the Scotty Cameron YouTube channel and watch the videos that explain every aspect of designs on his putter Offset really doesn't impact toe hang. Toe hang is driven by where the shaft would intersect the head and CoG location. If the shaft intersects closer to the center the more face balanced, the more toward the heel the more toe hang. Offset has more impact on alignment and rate of rotation during the stroke.. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Offset really doesn't impact toe hang. Toe hang is driven by where the shaft would intersect the head and CoG location. If the shaft intersects closer to the center the more face balanced, the more toward the heel the more toe hang. Offset has more impact on alignment and rate of rotation during the stroke.. Rate of rotation and toe hang are intertwined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Rate of rotation and toe hang are intertwined Didn't say it wasn't. Said that offset influences rate of rotation, but not toe hang. Same shaft position with different offsets will rotate differently. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 A center shafted putter (which Scotty make plenty of) inherently has no offset. I am not sure what you mean? Yes, they do have a few large, center shafted mallets. I give you that. But they could make Newports and the like with 25 different numerical suffixes, and none of them would be non-offset. I've got several non-offset blades in my putter bag, both heel and center shafted, but none of them is a Scotty. They once made a few Bullseye types but they haven't made them for a while. I never could putt as well with even a partial shaft offset, so my collection has mostly non-offset models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Yes, they do have a few large, center shafted mallets. I give you that. But they could make Newports and the like with 25 different numerical suffixes, and none of them would be non-offset. I've got several non-offset blades in my putter bag, both heel and center shafted, but none of them is a Scotty. They once made a few Bullseye types but they haven't made them for a while. I never could putt as well with even a partial shaft offset, so my collection has mostly non-offset models. I'll give you that but 99.99999% of blades have toe hang. The offset goes hand in hand with toe hand, the offset helps you get the face square and release the clubhead. Hence why there are so few offset blades and none from Scotty. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I'll give you that but 99.99999% of blades have toe hang. The offset goes hand in hand with toe hand, the offset helps you get the face square and release the clubhead. Hence why there are so few offset blades and none from Scotty. I have seen research that shows that offset works hand in hand with your stroke to get the face square. Depending on your stroke needs, you may need more or less offset. For example, I need lots of toe hang and minimal offset. If I use a putter with full shaft offset, I increase my left miss because the offset keeps the face closed to the path through the stroke. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Paying for a name anyways. I tried one, hated it. Got a $79 Anser and love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 Paying for a name anyways. I tried one, hated it. Got a $79 Anser and love it. Interesting since Scotty's and pretty much every putter out there is a take on the anser. Scotty is more than a name is about craftsmanship and passion. Not saying other putter makers out there aren't like that but imo Scotty is on another level Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0lf Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 What makes a good putter is subjective to every golfer... my criteria priority: 1. Can roll the golf ball on my line - from all distances 2. Has distance control 3. Off center strikes have minimal negative impact 4. Visually pleasing 5. Brand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I have one solely because I: Always wanted one growing up watching Tiger Think they are pretty. I throw it in the bag every once in a while when the ER2 goes cold, but otherwise it's a wall hanger and it just makes me feel like I'm no longer a kid wishing I could have one. Now I'm an adult kid with one Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 My putting style was very unsound mechanically. No instructor would approve of it. We're supposed to have our eyes directly over the ball but I couldn't hit a hole the diameter of a 55 gallon drum doing that. I had no way of making the putt standing square to the line, either. I had to stand open to the line and pick a spot at which to putt. I also liked to reduce break with speed, but that's very dangerous if one overdoes it. I almost always missed on the high side, but I didn't always leave myself a short enough putt coming back. This would, even to me, sound like the technique of a twenty-five handicapper, but for a brief time, I played to seven doing that. With a non-offset putter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 My putting style was very unsound mechanically. No instructor would approve of it. We're supposed to have our eyes directly over the ball but I couldn't hit a hole the diameter of a 55 gallon drum doing that. I had no way of making the putt standing square to the line, either. I had to stand open to the line and pick a spot at which to putt. I also liked to reduce break with speed, but that's very dangerous if one overdoes it. I almost always missed on the high side, but I didn't always leave myself a short enough putt coming back. This would, even to me, sound like the technique of a twenty-five handicapper, but for a brief time, I played to seven doing that. With a non-offset putter. All putting myths. Eyes over the ball, not required, square stance, not required, multiple speeds are available to make a putt. As long as you do the same thing consistently It is the approach of a touring professional. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnSmalls Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 9/29/2018 at 8:59 PM, RickyBobby_PR said: Interesting since Scotty's and pretty much every putter out there is a take on the anser. Scotty is more than a name is about craftsmanship and passion. Not saying other putter makers out there aren't like that but imo Scotty is on another level and marketing. Gameday Vessel Sunday 2.0/ Ogio Silencer Dynapwr Carbon | Hzrdus Smoke Black Mavrik 3w | Evenflow Riptide FG Tour F5 Hybrid(20,23) | MCA Fubuki Staff Model CB 5-PW | DG 120 Vokey SM7 (50, 54, 58) | DG 120 Studio Stock 15 -ProV1x (left dash) Romans 10:9 Classic Bag Jones Collegiate Clemson Stand Bag Eye 2 Laminate 1973 Staff Dynapower 4-PW Anser DUO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmikecpa Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 If you want a putter with no toe hang or toe floe then Scotty is not your guy. The majority of his designs are built on the premise of an arc stroke and trust me I think I own just about one of every model that he has made going back to before he signed with Titleist. And his Newport 2.6 is a center shaft non-offset blade.....but still has toe hang to it. WITB 2024 Driver: Qi10 LS 9* Ltd. HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60 TX Fairway: BRNR Mini Driver Copper 13.5* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5 Fairway: Sim 19* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5 Hybrid: 0317x 22* KBS Proto 95x Irons: X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX Wedges: Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner Putter: Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75" Ball: Z Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Jmikecpa said: If you want a putter with no toe hang or toe floe then Scotty is not your guy. The majority of his designs are built on the premise of an arc stroke and trust me I think I own just about one of every model that he has made going back to before he signed with Titleist. And his Newport 2.6 is a center shaft non-offset blade.....but still has toe hang to it. I completely forgot about the 2.6 Newport. Good call, Jmikecpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemclub Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 14 hours ago, Jmikecpa said: If you want a putter with no toe hang or toe floe then Scotty is not your guy. The majority of his designs are built on the premise of an arc stroke This is right. I remember reading somewhere that Scotty thought he would never make a face balance / no toe hang model. Likely market demand has brought out the scotty face balance models. It actually makes sense. Because your arms move around your tilted spine, you physically can't make a straight-back-straight-through stroke unless you manipulate your arms and the face. I guess you would need to tilt your spine until it was parallel to the ground until you could physically have a true SBST pendulum swing. It was for this reason that Scotty thought you should always have some hang. Bag: Bennington Quiet Organizer 9-Lite (link) Cart: 3.5+ Driver: F9 speedback, Accra iWood Woods: Sonartec GS Tour 14*, Fujikura Six S DI: T-MB 2 iron, KBS Tour-V 120 X, Irons: PP-9003SN 4-GW, Nippon 1150GH Stiff Wedges: 1957 K-grind SW, LW, Nippon 1150GH Stiff Putter: EXO Indianapolis (link) Ball: MTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 4 hours ago, chemclub said: This is right. I remember reading somewhere that Scotty thought he would never make a face balance / no toe hang model. Likely market demand has brought out the scotty face balance models. It actually makes sense. Because your arms move around your tilted spine, you physically can't make a straight-back-straight-through stroke unless you manipulate your arms and the face. I guess you would need to tilt your spine until it was parallel to the ground until you could physically have a true SBST pendulum swing. It was for this reason that Scotty thought you should always have some hang. I understand the theory. You'd need to have a 90º lie angle for a pendulum, straight back and forth stroke. But in the real world, I could putt much better with no offset and something close to face balance. Scotty makes beautiful putters for sure, but for other people. (Maybe the Newport 2.6 or GoLo S5.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmikecpa Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I understand the theory. You'd need to have a 90º lie angle for a pendulum, straight back and forth stroke. But in the real world, I could putt much better with no offset and something close to face balance. Scotty makes beautiful putters for sure, but for other people. (Maybe the Newport 2.6 or GoLo S5.) The S5 and Newport 2.6 have considerable toe hang for a center shafted putter. I have the GoLo in my apartment and can take pictures when I get home if anyone is interested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk WITB 2024 Driver: Qi10 LS 9* Ltd. HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60 TX Fairway: BRNR Mini Driver Copper 13.5* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5 Fairway: Sim 19* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5 Hybrid: 0317x 22* KBS Proto 95x Irons: X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX Wedges: Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner Putter: Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75" Ball: Z Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Jmikecpa said: The S5 and Newport 2.6 have considerable toe hang for a center shafted putter. I have the GoLo in my apartment and can take pictures when I get home if anyone is interested. Nobody thinks that you're lying, Jmikecpa. We accountants never lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmikecpa Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Nobody thinks that you're lying, Jmikecpa. We accountants never lie.Not worried about that, just offering for education purposes. A lot of people think that center shafted equals face balanced. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk WITB 2024 Driver: Qi10 LS 9* Ltd. HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60 TX Fairway: BRNR Mini Driver Copper 13.5* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5 Fairway: Sim 19* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5 Hybrid: 0317x 22* KBS Proto 95x Irons: X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX Wedges: Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner Putter: Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75" Ball: Z Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnSmalls Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 18 hours ago, Jmikecpa said: Not worried about that, just offering for education purposes. A lot of people think that center shafted equals face balanced. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I am open for the education, I mistakenly thought a center shaft did mean the putter was face balanced. Gameday Vessel Sunday 2.0/ Ogio Silencer Dynapwr Carbon | Hzrdus Smoke Black Mavrik 3w | Evenflow Riptide FG Tour F5 Hybrid(20,23) | MCA Fubuki Staff Model CB 5-PW | DG 120 Vokey SM7 (50, 54, 58) | DG 120 Studio Stock 15 -ProV1x (left dash) Romans 10:9 Classic Bag Jones Collegiate Clemson Stand Bag Eye 2 Laminate 1973 Staff Dynapower 4-PW Anser DUO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, JohnSmalls said: I am open for the education, I mistakenly thought a center shaft did mean the putter was face balanced. Yeah, me too. There must be some trick with weighting. The toe side must weight more than the heel. Right? Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I am open for the education, I mistakenly thought a center shaft did mean the putter was face balanced. Yeah, me too. There must be some trick with weighting. The toe side must weight more than the heel. Right? It is about the location of the CoG. The CoG of a club wants to align with the shaft so move the CoG toward the toe and you get the to to start dropping(toe hang) By moving the CoG you also influence the clubs rate of rotation. The more toward the toe the slower it will rotate. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, GB13 said: Yeah, me too. There must be some trick with weighting. The toe side must weight more than the heel. Right? In a simplistic view, if you draw an imaginary line through the center of mass of the head, perpendicular to the face, a putter will be face-balanced if the shaft is attached at any point along that line. Move the shaft slightly off that line and the balance is affected, creating toe hang (moving the other way would create heel hang, but I assume no one wants that). It also works with other neck styles too, but you look at the projection of where the shaft would meet the head if it were extended beyond its mounting point. The virtual mounting point can be in front of the face when the other neck styles create offset. Changing the weight distribution effects the location of the center of mass so don't confuse geometric centerline with the line through the center of mass. But you are right: if a shaft is along the geometric centerline of a putter, the toe has to be heavier to get toe hang. Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Move the shaft slightly off that line and the balance is affected, creating toe hang (moving the other way would create heel hang, but I assume no one wants that). There are putters with heel hang. The odyssey toe up putters, machine made a few, and I am pretty sure some of the Edel putters have heel hang. Can be beneficial depending on how you need the club to respond during the stroke. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Just now, cnosil said: There are putters with heel hang. The odyssey toe up putters, machine made a few, and I am pretty sure some of the Edel putters have heel hang. Can be beneficial depending on how you need the club to respond during the stroke. Thanks, I did not know that! Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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