AmateurStatus Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 So I've been reading a lot about using a 3.0 swing tempo (i.e the backswing taking 3 times longer than the downswing) and have tried putting it into practice. For wedges and short irons it seems to be really easy and the result is pretty good, consistent ball striking and predictable results (only tried on the driving range so far but will try it on course as well). For longer irons the tempo seems to take a bit longer, maybe 3.1-3.2 but where I'm really struggling to hit the 3.0 tempo is in the driver which ends up being around 3.4. Not sure if it's because the club is longer/heavier or what but the backswing takes much longer (from about 1.1-1.2 seconds with an iron to about 1.3-1.4 seconds with the driver) while the downswing stays the same for pretty much all clubs around 0.37-0.39 seconds. Should I try to take the driver back more quickly or should the backswing go back less (i.e. rotate less)? I believe there is merit in a 3.0 swing tempo so would like to get my driver in this range. geh 1 Quote Link to comment
tony@CIC Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 I find that the faster I take the driver back the more I'll miss the sweet spot or worse yet not square the face. It's also easier to me to load up the driver with a slower backswing. Vegan_Golfer_PNW and Kenny B 2 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment
cnosil Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 7 hours ago, AmateurStatus said: Should I try to take the driver back more quickly or should the backswing go back less (i.e. rotate less)? I believe there is merit in a 3.0 swing tempo so would like to get my driver in this range. Impossible to tell without seeing your swing. You could be over swinging with the longer clubs or as you indicated you backswing could be too slow. Have you compared where your arms and club stop on driver full swing versus a short iron full swing? Simple answer is to experiment/practice and see what gives you the tempo you want with the best results. RickyBobby_PR and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: XCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
Kenny B Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 59 minutes ago, tony@CIC said: I find that the faster I take the driver back the more I'll miss the sweet spot or worse yet not square the face. It's also easier to me to load up the driver with a slower backswing. Nothing happens fast in my swing. Vegan_Golfer_PNW, Dweed, MuniGolfer and 2 others 3 2 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment
release Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 9 hours ago, AmateurStatus said: So I've been reading a lot about using a 3.0 swing tempo (i.e the backswing taking 3 times longer than the downswing) and have tried putting it into practice. For wedges and short irons it seems to be really easy and the result is pretty good, consistent ball striking and predictable results (only tried on the driving range so far but will try it on course as well). For longer irons the tempo seems to take a bit longer, maybe 3.1-3.2 but where I'm really struggling to hit the 3.0 tempo is in the driver which ends up being around 3.4. Not sure if it's because the club is longer/heavier or what but the backswing takes much longer (from about 1.1-1.2 seconds with an iron to about 1.3-1.4 seconds with the driver) while the downswing stays the same for pretty much all clubs around 0.37-0.39 seconds. Should I try to take the driver back more quickly or should the backswing go back less (i.e. rotate less)? I believe there is merit in a 3.0 swing tempo so would like to get my driver in this range. The driver is the longest stick in the bag and the wedge is the shortest of all full swing stick. To maintain the same tempo of your core speed, the head of the driver will have to travel at a greater speed than the wedge. Instead of trying to figure out the numbers which is easy to compile and understand, try just accelerate through the golf ball at your personal best. Breaking down the sequence will help you understand what is, not a guide line for must. Quote Link to comment
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 2 hours ago, cnosil said: Impossible to tell without seeing your swing. You could be over swinging with the longer clubs or as you indicated you backswing could be too slow. Have you compared where your arms and club stop on driver full swing versus a short iron full swing? Simple answer is to experiment/practice and see what gives you the tempo you want with the best results. This. It could also be a bad fit in the shaft weight, overran weigh and feel if the longer clubs. Ive seen several respected fitters talk about creating the same feel throughout the bag cnosil 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment
billybogey Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 This is an Old Guy & a Hacker speaking here. Thanks you for input & do like K.I.S.S. as did understand what Tony "The Tiger" said. If my Swing is "a Blur" know my Backswing is too fast[ Faster than my Downswing} results are not good. Also know a Guy who is at least 20 yrs. younger than me who often is 2 FWY's over but he does swing with "A Blur". & ,at least, I can usually find mine!! Yuk; Yuk!! Bill Bamber Edmonton Alberta tony@CIC 1 Quote Link to comment
AmateurStatus Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 Some good points made above so here is my on-course and range experience since trying to implement a 3.0 swing tempo. A day or so after I posted this question I played an 18 hole round - the first 3 holes were abysmal, I found trying to speed up my backswing resulted in lots of bad shots (bogey, bogey, triple bogey for those holes) which was a much different result from my previous driving range outing possibly because hitting from an uneven grass surface is much different from a smooth artificial turf surface. I decided I wanted to keep trying a 3.0 swing tempo so I tried reducing the backswing and smoothing out the downswing which resulted in much better contact and directional control - the remaining 15 holes saw 5 bogeys and 10 pars. I think a 3.0 swing tempo is a good target to aim for and I'll probably keep trying to achieve it using a shorter backswing as opposed to a faster backswing. Dweed 1 Quote Link to comment
Swing Pastor Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Get a Metronome app on your phone. Set it to 3/4 time and start with 185. That is a good benchmark to putting together a tempo that works for you. Speed it up or slow it down to see what works best. It'll probably get up to 190-195. I've found that a player, once they have a tempo that feels right to them, hits every club with that tempo. Then, when playing, put it on your earbuds on the range when warming up. It'll help you get the day started properly. I like my players, if playing by themselves or with friends, to put the metronome on while hitting shots. It's amazing at how much quicker we get when playing. Enjoy... Snowmonkeys1310, Shapotomous and Dweed 2 1 Quote Callaway Epic Flash Subzero, CK Pro Tensei Orange Tour Edge Exotics Tour EX9, 15* Mizuno CLK 19* Mizuno JPX919 Tour, KBS C Taper, 4-PW Fourteen Golf RM22 52*, 58* Scotty Cameron Circa 62 No 1 Bridgestone B RXS Link to comment
Donn lost in San Diego Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Today's drivers are 1 - 3 inches longer than pre- Big Bertha/Burner and graphite shafts and thus travel a lot further distance, takes more time, or huge % increase in muscle. Many of the world's best pros are very "slow" or deliberate backswing and transition on driver and 3 wood. Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment
RickyBobby_PR Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 8 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: Today's drivers are 1 - 3 inches longer than pre- Big Bertha/Burner and graphite shafts and thus travel a lot further distance, takes more time, or huge % increase in muscle. Many of the world's best pros are very "slow" or deliberate backswing and transition on driver and 3 wood. Most pros don’t have a deliberate or slow backswing with any club nor do they have deliberate or slow transition. They all have pretty much the same tempo/flow throughout the back. The slow backswing or the low and slow takeaway lead to improper hip movements. Kenny B 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment
Snowmonkeys1310 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) Would advise not getting too obsessed with chasing a perfect tempo, as the golf swing is supposed to be an "athletic" movement. All your tempo needs to do is allow you to make a controlled, athletic swing, and there isn't some perfect tempo out there that you must have in order to do that. Video below is a great example of two elite players with vastly different tempos. Brooks Koepka vs Jon Rahm - Swing Biomechanics.mp4 Edited August 1, 2023 by Snowmonkeys1310 Quote Driver - G425 LST 9° (@ 8°) | Shaft: Ping Tour 2.0 Black X-flex (1.0" short) FW - G425 LST 14.5° (@ 13°) | Shaft: Alta CB 65 X-flex (1.0" short) FW - S IM2 HL 16.5° | Tensei Blue 65 X-flex (1.5" short) 4H - G430 22° (@ 23°) | Tensei CK Pro Blue 80 TX-flex (0.5" short) 5-PW - Pro 223 | Nippon NS Pro Modus Tour3 115 X-flex GW - SM9 - 50° 08/F | Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 SW - SM9 - 54° 12/D | Dynamic Gold S200 LW - Glide 4.0 - 58° 06/T | Ping Z-Z115 Wedge Link to comment
Donn lost in San Diego Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Yep. Rahm and Finau to look at them, ya would never want to emulate, ya might wonder how they even are on TOUR. Hideki Mat and I think Song Jae Im, or Tom Kin, or maybe Beng On, (pardon all my spellings) have slower takeaway and pause at the top. For me, I can't muscle a longer shaft around under control at the same tempo as my shorter clubs. As for Low and Slow, Mickey Wright was the King and Queen of low. As for hips, amy tempo has to be coordinated. Duffers can throw any body part out of rhythm, fast or slow. Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment
cnosil Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 23 hours ago, Snowmonkeys1310 said: Would advise not getting too obsessed with chasing a perfect tempo, as the golf swing is supposed to be an "athletic" movement. All your tempo needs to do is allow you to make a controlled, athletic swing, and there isn't some perfect tempo out there that you must have in order to do that. Video below is a great example of two elite players with vastly different tempos. Brooks Koepka vs Jon Rahm - Swing Biomechanics.mp4 664.04 kB · 0 downloads The speed and length of their swings are different but their tempos are both 3:1; which based on studies is ideal and what most every tour player does. here are articles that state both Finau and Rahm have the same tempo and that they are 3:1. https://golf.com/instruction/jon-rahm-swing-looks-flawed-actually-perfect/ https://www.golfbpm.com/blog/tony-finau-back-to-back-pga-tour-wins-golf-music-for-perfect-tempo RickyBobby_PR 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: XCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
cnosil Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: Yep. Rahm and Finau to look at them, ya would never want to emulate, ya might wonder how they even are on TOUR. Hideki Mat and I think Song Jae Im, or Tom Kin, or maybe Beng On, (pardon all my spellings) have slower takeaway and pause at the top. For me, I can't muscle a longer shaft around under control at the same tempo as my shorter clubs. As for Low and Slow, Mickey Wright was the King and Queen of low. All those players probably have a 3:1 tempo. Studies show that is the ideal tempo for the golf swing with all clubs. I posted links to articles that both Rahm and Finau are 3:1. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: XCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
RickyBobby_PR Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 The pause of those players is perception they don’t actually pause they are still moving in the swing and working pressure to the lead side. A pause would lead to there being separate movements in the swing but in reality the swing is a flowing movement from takeaway to downswing. tony@CIC and Vegan_Golfer_PNW 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment
Vegan_Golfer_PNW Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 4:47 AM, tony@CIC said: I find that the faster I take the driver back the more I'll miss the sweet spot or worse yet not square the face. It's also easier to me to load up the driver with a slower backswing. My coach has a saying, slow-slow-fast. If I go all fast it’s a mess. Need a balance. Mr. Mushball and tony@CIC 2 Quote Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low Driver: Epic Max LS TD Cat 4 70g (back up Ventus Black 6x 44.5" ) 3wHL: Rogue ST LS 75x Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink 7w: Apex UW 21* MMT 80S DI: Caley 01X 18* with PGH Stiff plus 95g 4-AW: 0211 with Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched Wedges Zipcore Putter:Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue Ball: Prime 4.0 Shot Tracking: Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0 Grip: Lamkin Sonar + Midsize Glove: My Reviews: Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023 Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23) TAIII #2 Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter ) Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here) 0211 2019 Unofficial Review Link to comment
TylorJudd Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 I shorten my back swing to achieve this. If I speed my tempo up with any club, my hands get way head and inside leading to disaster. It might feel like a knock down swing but the power is immense because of that ideal tempo range @cnosil stated. As also stated, you may run into shaft weight issues quickly when going down this road. I can be totally wrong here, but I believe most of our power in our swing is attributed to our transistion tony@CIC 1 Quote I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf! Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-MJ 6x Titleist TSr3 18 Degree, Graphite Design Tour Ad-DI 7x Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours 120S Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M Odyssey O-Works Jailbird Mini, Versa Scheme, 17" Fatso 3.0 Grip, 40" Jazz Tacoma Cart Bag Titleist Pro V1x Link to comment
Mr. Mushball Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 To me it's not about how fast the backswing is. When I'm swinging well the backswing is deliberate. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slower, but the relationship of the tempo remains the same. I have to wait until I feel "hang time" at the top, and a longer backswing does not usually work well. This also helps me add the 3 in the 3:1. Otherwise it's 1, 2, - 4! Generally ends in a chunk or an overswing. Quote Driver - PXG GEN5 0311FX 9°+1° flat - ProjectX Cypher 40 5.5 trimmed to 44" Wood - PXG GEN5 0311FX 4-wood flat - ProjectX Cypher 50 5.5 Hybrid - PXG 0211 22° flat - ProjectX Cypher 50 5.5 and Adams Idea 5HY - 39" Fubuki z60 Hy Flex-R shaft Irons - 5-PW Callaway Rouge ST Max w / ProjectX Tour Flighted 105 steel shafts Wedges - Kirkland Signature G/S/L Putter - Kirkland Signature KS1 Wilson Brass Tech BT-2 with Garsen ULTIMATE grip Balls - Titelist Pro V1 (PROTO 388) and Pro V1x (PROTO 348 test balls from current '22 ball test. RH player shooting ~112 in Portland, Oregon. New to the game and improving every week! Link to comment
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