Range Finders on Tour

[Josh Parker]

I found the article below interesting about the use of rangefinders being allowed for the PGA Championship. 

Rangefinders

It got me thinking, why hasn't this been implemented across the board. Is it just the history of it?  

The caddies and the players at this point have it so dialed in that they know their number on each shot.  This would save a little time and keep things moving a touch more. 

As a consumer, we already know the number because of technology.  I know for me personally, I'm not looking at the players and going, wow, they figured out their distances....

Help me understand.  

 

[Shrek74]

I've actually heard/read that the PGA thinks it's going to slow play down using the rangefinders. Although their reasoning was complete BS if you ask me (I don't recall the actual reasoning, just my reaction to reading it).

I think the PGA is jus so far behind the times in things like this that they don't even know what to do about it. They could even get an "Official Rangefinder of the PGA Tour" deal out of it if they really wanted to.

It would lessen the amount of time the caddies and players have to walk off distances from sprinklers or other landmarks they have in their books, especially when they're off the fairways or in adjacent fairways. There's no good reason to not have them at this point.

[Josh Parker]

No way it slows down play. You will see a player punch out of the rough to a random distance and then they walk it all off figuring out distances constantly. 

[Shrek74]

I fully agree their thoughts of it slowing down play are complete garbage. It would absolutely speed up play, except for Cantlay of course.

[TSauer]

The point of golf is to hit the ball to a specific distance, obtaining that distance shouldn't be a challenge. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed.

Unless, PGA thinks it would actually speed up play and then they lose ad revenue.

Edited May 13 by TSauer

[Berg Ryman]

It's a matter of time thing I would think. The LPGA has done this for nearly 3 years, hell a couple of weeks ago they announced Nikon as the official Rangefinder of the tour. Being honest, the first shot I watched of the tournament yesterday was Rose's on 17 and what did I watch her do before that beautiful shot into the par 3, rangefinder in hand, not even waiting for her caddie to do it.

It's crazy to think because I remember following guys around for practice rounds at Oak Hill last year and not only did every group have at least 2 guys with each player using rangefinders throughout the course, they were also bringing along their GC3s or Quads for every shot for accurate launch monitor readings. It was wild to see live.

[jolter1]

God forgive the PGATour does anything to help speed up play.

[Josh Parker]

I think it would be good for the game/viewership.   It's something most golfers do when they play and we already get distance data on the TV screen.  Just makes no sense. 

[downlowkey]

4 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

No way it slows down play. You will see a player punch out of the rough to a random distance and then they walk it all off figuring out distances constantly. 

On average, true punch out recoveries probably account for 1-2 of the ~280 shots a tour player hits in weekly competition and even rarer is the case where a player wouldn’t advance it far enough to lose their turn. There are odd occasions like playing from an adjacent fairway, where a laser could potentially speed up the out of position process but you still need line of sight which often isn’t available in those situations. Overall, rangefinders would probably slow down play by 4-5 seconds per typical approach shot at the tour level IMO and because you asked for help understanding, I’ll try to explain the conditions in detail.

The average golfer uses a rangefinder to shoot the flagstick then grabs a club. But distance to the hole is only one of 3-4 distances (ie - front bunker carry, slope to back shelf carry, back edge of the green, etc.) that the best golfers in the world typically assess on every approach shot and rangefinders wouldn’t put a stop to all the simple arithmetic necessary to calculate all those points in their yardage books. Their daily hole location sheets give a two dimensional green plot (yards from front edge and left/right from closest edge). Those are all marked in their books before they even tee off on the first hole.

On Mon/Tues tour caddies spend hours out on the course updating yardage points (ie - sprinkler heads, specific trees, etc.). During competition they almost always start pacing from one of those known points between the tee and the ball with their book open, so they already know the front edge number by the time they get to the player’s ball. Figuring distance is subsequently as quick as adding 143 + 12 in your head. You couldn’t shoot a flagstick faster than that, but if you allowed rangefinders they’d sure as heck be using them to double check (read: taking more time)

The process that takes an inordinate amount of time for some players is deliberating over how far the shot is actually playing (wind, temp, slope) and which shot in their quiver offers the best statistical advantage to a specific green segment.

I wholeheartedly believe rangefinders speed up play for almost all golfers, but it just doesn’t hold true for the PGA Tour. The difference would be negligible but I’d estimate that DMDs would slow down play around 2 min. per group.

[robinwellsgolf]

I personally 100 percent believe they should be used on tour week in week out pace of play is becoming absolutely ridiculous and will save a bit of time on having to pace out yardages etc they are good they know how far flags are on and how much room either side already so let them use it 

[cnosil]

I am fine with rangefinders being used but as @downlowkeymentioned shooting the flag is not a priority in distance calculation.   My guess is that they simply use the rangefinder to shoot the pin and then subtract to get to front of green and then figure out target.   Maybe they shoot a carry distance.   PGA pros don’t just target pins     I think the below video shows why rangefinder won’t speed up play….whichnis simply what they can shoot isn’t a big concern  

 

 

[DaveP043]

19 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

I've actually heard/read that the PGA thinks it's going to slow play down using the rangefinders. Although their reasoning was complete BS if you ask me (I don't recall the actual reasoning, just my reaction to reading it).

19 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

No way it slows down play. You will see a player punch out of the rough to a random distance and then they walk it all off figuring out distances constantly. 

In my opinion, Tour professionals are unlikely to pass up "additional information".  If rangefinders were allowed, they'd certainly use them, but they'd also continue to get their distances the old-fashioned way too.  So using the rangefinders would only add to their already time-consuming routine.  I don't think any time increases would be really significant, but I just don't see a pro saying "Don't worry about pacing that off, I'm good".  

[Mdrnsamurai]

i think it's kind of silly that they aren't allowed, because they still have to hit the ball to that distance... as far speeding up play who knows it might help... by keeping the caddie out of the book for 10 minutes preshot...

i'm sure they will make up their minds on this one pretty soon...

cheers

[DaveP043]

39 minutes ago, Mdrnsamurai said:

i'm sure they will make up their minds on this one pretty soon...

Their minds have been made up for quite a while.  If you think they will CHANGE their minds pretty soon, I'd be inclined to disagree.

[GregGarner]

7 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In my opinion, Tour professionals are unlikely to pass up "additional information".  If rangefinders were allowed, they'd certainly use them, but they'd also continue to get their distances the old-fashioned way too.  So using the rangefinders would only add to their already time-consuming routine.  I don't think any time increases would be really significant, but I just don't see a pro saying "Don't worry about pacing that off, I'm good".  

I'm just ready to see Bryson working out the Pythagorean Theorem plus a little basic trig to figure out if he can get a ball over a tree or not

[duckman]

I see nothing wrong with it.

I went to the LIV Adelaide and some of the Caddy's / Players used them.

I thought it actually made the game a bit quicker 

Tho, just saying, all the Caddy's I saw had yardage books too 

[kenkuiper]

If it speeds up play why not.

[RoyF]

Allow it! It will absolutely speed up play. No more walking off distances. What's the carry for that trap? Shoot it. Calculating zones on greens won't change,  but it will stop all the pacing off yardages.

[Marty2shanks]

Yes!  Absolutely!  Long overdue.  And maybe we could have a couple tournaments without caddies…would be interesting to see what that would do.  The only time I care about the caddie is when they argue with their player.
 

Speed of play on the PGA Tour is all about the shot clock.  PGA Tour won’t enforce it.  Just start enforcing the shot clock with penalty strokes and this issue will get sorted real quick.  You could also impose a winnings penalty for every shot clock violation…meaning 10% of your winnings goes back to the field for every shot clock violation.  Brian Harman wins a tournament but ends up owing money back to the field!!  

[Delaware Joe]

I am all in for the use of rangefinders on the Tour. Anything that would speed up the play has got to be good for everyone, right?????

[RetiredBoomer]

13 minutes ago, Delaware Joe said:

I am all in for the use of rangefinders on the Tour. Anything that would speed up the play has got to be good for everyone, right?????

I will admit it.
I find GPS much easier to use than rangefinders.

Is GPS as accurate?
Probably not, but who's kidding whom?
Neither am I.

[Beakbryce]

GPS and rangefinders. May not speed up play from the middle of the fairway, but it would help when in the next fairway over etc. So much easier to use on layups from trouble without watching a pro or caddie walk them off. Every step they take walking a hundred yards back and forth slows the entire field down.

We usually watch picked groups on TV. The problem with slow play is the players who are fighting to make the cut on Thursday and Friday. Imagine the pace of play of number 135 player in a 156 man field. Those players are not playing well, have a lot more to analyze, than the players we are watching. It couldn't help but speed them up on what has to be a lot of trouble shots.

[jonry]

Practice round: absolutely

Tournament: absolutely not

End rant

[Franc38]

There's an easy way to see if that speeds up play or slows it down... testing it.

You can have two rounds with it, two rounds without and see if there's any difference over a few tournaments and all groups.

If it doesn't slow down things significantly (do the actual statistical test... ) then allow it everywhere. It's making "tour golf" more relatable to the average players and might inspire a few of the guys who try to eyeball everything, then pace stuff (and who are definitely very very slow when you play with or behind them) to get a rangefinder themselves. Plus what's the point (outside of potential effects on the pace of play) of banning that? Maybe to make the caddies more "necessary" to the players so that we don't evolve to tour golf being more like "normal golf" : push carts, lasers, and the player only has himself or herself to blame for bad clubbing or miss-read shots?