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  1. RH


    Stock Ping PP58 Midsize blackout grip

    Stock Loft and lie


    Putter is like new. Only thing I've done is removed the colored painfill. Putter has never been rolled outside. Shaft and head look pristine

    $335 or best offer

    Price includes shipping and PayPal fees. Will ship same business day if payment received before 3pm EST that day











  2. 2 minutes ago, Andrew75 said:

    I judge their judgment, sophistication and intelligence, but by no means their skill. However, most really good players have serious clubs with decent specifications, but there are always anomalies. 

    That said, I feel my own set ( divided between honma, yamaha, epon, vokey and rife) is inadequate not by choice, but by limitations of what is made and what is marketed. To that I blame mostly the operation of markets and marketing. 

    Curious - what exactly are the limitations of what is being made and marketed?  What would be better?

  3. 12 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

    To answer your first question of why there are so few high CG putters, I can't tell you why. I do NOT have a golf lab to test my putter on. What I did was hit balls on the green and looked at the results to see if it worked better or not. I also had a dozen PGA golf insturctors test my putter against their high dollar OEM putters, and EVERY one of thos instructors sain the same thing. My putter rolled the ball better than the putter they had in their bag. EVERY ONE

    My putter has 4* of loft to get the ball up out of the small depression it sits in on the green. Once to ball is level with the top of the grass, the high CG takes over and gets the ball rolling toward the cup with no bounce or skidding which is what we want with a putter. Have I don't the testing? YES. Do I have lab data to back my up? NO. I jus thave REAL world test results with over a dozen PGA instructors to back up my claims. IF that is NOT enough for you or anyone else, That's not my problem. I know the truth and if you don't want to accept it, not my problem. 

    Well we know that you don't really care much about facts, lab data and science - especially since all the lab data and testing shows spining and floing a shaft is nothing more than great marketing that capitalizes on a mental placebo effect.

    Super happy your stumbled upon something that works for you.  You speak in absolutes, but then admit you dont have any lab data or physics knowledge to understand the full picture.

    And never have I said your putter sucks.  All I have said is you need to stop speaking in absolutes.  There are numerous factors in how a ball launches

    Putter Construction: Static loft, CG height, CG depth, grooves, etc.

    Player input: Stroke speed, angle of attack, shaft lean 

    All of those facto into launch and forward roll.  And that doesn't factor in green condition and speed, which could also change what "ideal" launch is.  


  4. 4 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

    That's fine if you want to get new woods and you like rotating the shaft to change the angles, But I for one do not like todays clubs that require the golfer to rotate the shaft as that messes up the spine and FLO alignment of the shaft and that can ruin the performance of what WAS a pretty good club. 

    And not every own wants or needs to go out a buy all new woods. Cost is one factor to consider for most golfers these days. 

    Ah you're a spine and flo guy...


  5. 12 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

    The same can be said about woods as well. At least with irons and wedges it's pretty easy to have the lie anlge bent up or down if you need to. But with a fairway wood with an muc shorter hosel length it near impossible to bend the lie angle it you need it. Most golfers are stuck with what the factory gives them. 

    Which is why OEMs created adjustable necks.  

  6. 14 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:


    bottom line and the whole point of my posts is WHY would anyone build a putter with a low CG when we know a low CG will cause the ball to go Up and then bounce and skid when it lands which usually causes the ball to roll off line and may even cause the ball to come up short of the cup?  I just don't see any reason for a low Cg in a putter and yet most all putters built today have a low CG. Just makes no sense. 

    Im done here. 

    Clearly you like arguing against years of science and R&D and just ignore basic facts when presented to you

    Ill post this link one more time so that anyone coming in hear looking for factual information doesn't get thrown off with your ignorance 

    I'm all for discussion and debate. But not when the person on the other side refuses to acknowledge facts and science


    CG is a tool. Loft is a tool. These things must be used in a fitting to give the player an optimal launch angle to deliver the optimal launch angle without excess bouncing our skipping. The same CG and loft DOES NOT work for everyone



  7. 1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

    Nearing a month away from this. 

    For those who are getting it, what do you think about MGS Forum running another virtual tour? I have some thoughts on it and how we can make it fun, but also pretty competitive!

    Need some more details first

    Crossplay?  No EA Sports game has had cross play yet

    Online communities or tournaments? Complete unknown right now

    Worst case, any sort of league would have to be completely manual and rules and matches would have to be scheduled individually.

  8. 9 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

    I'm a little surprised to see how many people buy balls by the dozen. Am I in the minority only buying a sleeve when I need them? 

    I don't want to forget balls, and then show up a at a course that doesn't have the ball I want and/or charges more per sleeve than if I were to buy a dozen online/at a store.   Heck, there are plenty of courses that don't even sell balls by the sleeve anymore.

  9. 34 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

    I was talking about the up and down CG of the putter, NOT, the toe to heel CG of a putter. Two very different things in terms of how a putter will perform. I build my putters with a HIGh CG for better roll and the CG tow to heel is in the center as I always use a straight back and forward putter stroke, not a arc stroke. For those that use and arc stroke some believe the putter should be toe heavy. 

    CG is 3-dimensional. 

    CG, even if centered laterally on the club face, is still 2-dimentional.  A CG low and forward can create the same launch parameters as a CG high and back. And on a putter we are talking about millimeters.

    Now, CG depth (forward and back) can have an impact on horizontal launch direction on off center hits, but that is not what we are talking about.  We are talking about vertical launch angle - and that can be influenced in putter construction by altering: 1) loft, face/groove construction, CG height, and CG depth

  10. 1 hour ago, RollingGreens said:

    Lighter shafts for my irons or a new set with lighter shafts. Playing the nippon 120 at 114g. Would love to get into that 105 range to pick up a little extra speed with a smaller head than my HM921. Maybe then 923hmp or 225. Also found out I get a discount in titleist clubs for my TPI certification 

    Get fit because you might find that lighter shafts do not mean more speed.  For me (and many other good players), I lose speed if I go too light because it throws off my sequencing.  There is diminishing returns with going lighter and for some people the returns diminish a hell of a lot faster than for others.

    And that doesn't even take into account the potential impact on strike consistency reducing average ball speed and dispersion/accuracy 

  11. 2 minutes ago, BombAndGouge said:

    We played at Town & Country Golf Links. $40 for 18 on a Sunday at 10 isn't bad. Weather was supposed to be much better. Won my match by 18 strokes though which was nice. 

    I also have a box or two of 21 ProV1s... wondering if I can trade them in. They are that good.

    That part of NJ is one where I have played very little golf.  I think Scotland Run is about as close is I've gotten to there!

    Glad you liked the new ball and makes me excited to try it out once I get ride of the 4 doz or so of the 2021's I have left

  12. 9 minutes ago, BombAndGouge said:

    I wanted to put together a quick review after playing my first round with the new 2023 Titleist ProV1 ("23V1"). I have played the 2021 ProV1, ProV1X, 19 Left Dash, 22 Chrome Soft X LS and Snell MTB-X over the last few years. I picked up a box of 23V1's and 22 Chrome Soft X's to try out. My intent was to play about 9 holes each and get a feel for them. The weather was approximately 48 degrees with steady 20-25 mph winds with gusts close to 40. Legitimately one of the windier days of the year (and it began to drizzle some unexpectedly).

    The Round:

    I played from the courses "tips," which were listed around 6700 yards at sea level but seemed to play much longer (probably wind induced). I put the Chrome Soft into play first which led to a nice bogey-bogey start. With that being less than ideal, I made the switch to the new 23V1. First drive was nuked close to 300 yards. The approach was about 211 into a par 4 which was hit to twelve feet. The ball seem to hold dead straight with wind more at the back, slightly right to left. Played even golf rest of front. Switched back to the Callaway and barely parred the long par 5 (as a result of a hooked second shot). Switched back to the 23V1 and played the remainder of the holes (total 15/18 with the ProV1). Finished one over with the ball and only because I lost massive strokes to poor putting (zero practice this year). 

    The Ball:

    I couldn't tell in the temperature that the ball was supposed to be softer than the prior gen, so it was probably close. One change that I didn't notice was long game spin. The 23V1 is supposed to be less spinny and have lower launch than the prior gen. With all of my long approaches (6 iron+) I did not fail to hold a green. Maybe there was so wind help, but approaches were dropping and stopping as expected. This also includes a lower "wind cheating" style shots. Many were 1-3 clubs added to normal distance based on wind. I hit a 6 iron from 143 dead into the wind and stopped the ball six feet from the cup for a smooth birdie. Lower trajectory may be more noticeable than a loss in long game spin. Other than wind factor, the ball did seem to be going as long or longer than the last ball. This could be attributed to a great striking day, but I think the ball is slightly hotter.

    As for the wind, with it behind the ball, it didn't seem to affect it as much as into the ball. By this I mean that I don't think the wind pushed the ball the same amount of distance as you would lose going directly into it. My 211 approach would likely have blown over the green with another ball hanging on the gust (lower spin less hang up?) with how cleanly it was hit. But overall, the 23V1 wanted to stay dead straight into the wind. It was noticeably strong eliminating a difficult day on the course. This was one of two important findings.

    The next important finding was greenside spin. A couple of holes needed a green side chip or bump and run style. I don't play with a lot of spin on these shots, typically try to find a landing spot for it to roll out. Not often do I attack the ball well for a hop-skip-bite-check/die close to the hole (need to get better with these shots). Most of the time we played "winter rules" so the chips were essentially fluffed (leading to more scooping action and run out). HOWEVER, the ball wanted to check up. My playing partners notice how much bite these soft 10-20 yard chips were one hop then bite/dying. It was amazing not putting much up a "clipper" swing into the ball and getting it to bite and finesse around the pin. 

    One of the playing partners decided to check out the 23V1 after seeing this 2 or 3 times and commented that cover felt like sand paper. While I don't know if I agree with that, it does feel grittier than a 19 Left Dash. This may be due to the increased number of dimples where your finger can feel the edges of more of them so it feels sharper, but it was supremely noticeable. Just slightly "more aggressive?" of a cover compared to the Left Dash which felt a little smoother and almost polished. Both are urethane, however. 


    The 2023 Titleist ProV1 impressed me and gave me confidence in a small money match. It made me want to abandon my game plan of testing balls to make sure I take care of business with the best tool in my arsenal. The wind performance was the best out of any ball I've play, greenside play was great, The balls held up well including hitting a tree they placed in the middle of the fairway on a dogleg (??), and it should putt like any other ProV1. I did not address putting as I don't think my poor putting day was reflective of either balls performance, even the Chrome Soft X with the triple track didn't drop a bunch of birdies. Speed control was the biggest issue... winter greens are slow. I'm not a shill and don't work for Titleist. I even just chose a Ping club over a Titleist in my recent fitting.

    Awesome writeup man.  I am all stocked up on the 2021 ProV1s but will definitely be staying with the ProV1 once I run out.

    Also - where in NJ did you play?

  13. Wish I could post in this thread, but as my wife and I now budgeting for a home addition in the next 24 months, so golf club purchases are completely out of the question.

    Otherwise the G430 LST driver would be at the top of my list, followed by graphite iron shafts (and probably new Mizuno heads), new vokeys, and a new titleist hybrid.

    But now I just get to watch others by new shiny stuff 🙃

  14. 16 minutes ago, drepark78 said:

     Some of the comments really show how biased their misconceptions are.  The question was, would you buy it? Not your judgement on what type of person would buy it.  Who cares if someone spends 2500 on a putter? Someone could say the same about golfers spending 500 on 1 club.

    Have you seen their commercials?  Who do you think their target audience is?

    Makes PXG bearable by comparison


  15. 31 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

    Again YOU are so wrong in what you are posting.  And it's NOT about sales and marketing, as I do not build my putter for sale, I build them for my own use and as presents for a few of my friends and customers. NOT for sales. 

    Also, if you look at the second link you might see that they talk about CG, and that is what I'm talking about. My putter has loft and ith has a high CG, both of which help to get the ball rolling and not pop up into the air too much, which is exaxtly what all the other putter designs do. Bottom line is that my putter design works better than the others out there, And I've tested it and had over a dozen PGA golf pros test it as well and they all agree that my puter rolls the ball better than what they have in their bags. 

    All that matters is the right amount of dynamic loft + the right CG location needed to create optimal launch.

    Just like any other club, you get there with many combinations of static loft and CG locations.  Lower CG would require less static loft to create the same optimal launch.

    Again.  Physics

  16. 6 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

    NO I don't. I want the ball to roll as soon as possible. Maybe YOU want to launch the ball into the air but I don't and I don't know anyone that does. And that is why when I designed my putter I built it with a High CG to roll the ball and NOT launch it up into the air, and it's why my putter design rolls the ball batter than any putter that I have tried and I have tried dozens of them over the last 212 years. I had a dozen golf instructors try my putter and every one of them preferred my [utter over theirs. My design just rolled the ball better than theirs, which is what they all wanted in a putter. 

    Ah I see. This is a sales and marketing thing

    Physics disagres with you 



    https://www.scienceandmotion.com/download/docs/fundamentals/The Fundamentals of Putting4.pdf


  17. 3 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

    It's just more LOW CG putter when we all know that a low CG is good for getting the ball UP in the air and last time I checked that is NOT what you want to do when putting. So I big fat NO for me. 

    Actually you do want launch. It's just a matter, just like fitting any club, of being fit. Ball launching higher due to low CG means you just need to play a lower loft. 

    I suggest watching one of the great TXG putting fitting videos. They do a great job of explaining optimal launch by marrying up CG, loft and the players stroke 

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