fixyurdivot Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 So short of reading through the myriad of test reports MGS has published about the various equipment manufacturers products, has the staff at MGS developed a ranking as to which is most factual about their claims? Among OEM's is there one that stands out as most factual and one that stands out as offering mostly fiction? Naturally, the big names produce the most advertising, and with advertising, comes some pretty outlandish claims. If stretching the truth moves the sales needle, the ends justifies the means as they say - Caveat Emptor. G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment
tony@CIC Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Interesting topic for MGS. If I were to believe the Golf OEM's I could buy myself into a scratch game - be it clubs, shoes or balls. But then this is also true of many different markets out there from dish washing soap (new and improved) to software. I think MGS cuts through the "outlandish claims" in a way with their 'Most Wanted' testing. However it's up to us to decide then if we believe the testing or the advertisements. As you say Caveat Emptor - buyer beware. Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment
null Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 It's all about fine print. It's not so much OEMs making false claims - it's just that they use marketing speak and fine print to make things seems relatively better than they actually are Link to comment
NiftyNiblick Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I don't think that the manufacturers' claims are even aimed at anybody but inexperienced players. If you've been around the block a few times, you know what you want and need, and you recognize it when you see it. Club heads and grips, anyway. Shafts don't tell you much visually, but you should already know what you want in terms of flex, weight, and kick point. Link to comment
fixyurdivot Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Let's take Evnroll as an example; "Zero Dispersion, 100% Accuracy". That IMO is a pretty big claim. Do they have data to back it up? Now PXG stating "Nobody makes golf clubs like we do, nobody" is totally believable. That is merely a catchy slogan (a pretty good one at that) as opposed to a performance claim. G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment
cnosil Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Let's take Evnroll as an example; "Zero Dispersion, 100% Accuracy". That IMO is a pretty big claim. Do they have data to back it up? . I would say that given a particular test they can verify that claim. The question would be how closely does the test match what I can do putting over time. That claim; however, is pretty generic and doesn’t tell me much. To me it means that given a consistent path and face angle at impact the ball will alway roll on the same line and travel the same distance. One of the problems with putting is delivering the putter on the same path and correct face angle. MGS does a great job doing independent testing, not necessarily on each individual claim, but to show real life performance if each club. I think the mist wanted results from the past few years shows the Evnroll Putters perform well. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
Kor.A.Door Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said: Let's take Evnroll as an example; "Zero Dispersion, 100% Accuracy". That IMO is a pretty big claim. Do they have data to back it up? Now PXG stating "Nobody makes golf clubs like we do, nobody" is totally believable. That is merely a catchy slogan (a pretty good one at that) as opposed to a performance claim. 100% accuracy means that I will never miss a putt again. So I think their claim is false Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment
cnosil Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 100% accuracy means that I will never miss a putt again. So I think their claim is falseValid point and why interpretation of the message may lead to different opinions. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
tommc23 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 100% accuracy means that I will never miss a putt again. So I think their claim is falseYou could roll the ball on your line 100% of the time but miss read the putt every time. Does that mean it isn't accurate because it rolled the intended line all the time but they can't read a green?Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app Link to comment
tommc23 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 100% accuracy means that I will never miss a putt again. So I think their claim is falseYou could roll the ball on your line 100% of the time but miss read the putt every time. Does that mean it isn't accurate because it rolled the intended line all the time but they can't read a green?Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app Link to comment
GB13 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I really don't think MGS cares too much about marketing claims. They eliminate all false advertising and outlandish claims by doing Most Wanted testing. MGS bases their results on their #Datacratic method. They don't even look at the advertising claims. The only test I can think of where they even mentioned crazy advertising claims is on the GX7 test. They looked at the 5 outlandish claims in the infomercial and rated them based on the truth. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment
TheWahoo Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 5 hours ago, fixyurdivot said: Now PXG stating "Nobody makes golf clubs like we do, nobody" is totally believable. That is merely a catchy slogan (a pretty good one at that) as opposed to a performance claim. Your point is well made. Perhaps, in fact, PXG does produce it clubs in some sort of unique manner or process. But it is only an underlying assumption that such manner or process yields the best clubs. I suspect that is an assumption that PXG is hoping people make. Link to comment
null Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 And this isn't just a golf industry problem. This is marketing in general. Most of the general population of society does not make truly educated and informed decisions about their purchases and good marketers thrive on that Link to comment
chisag Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 3:06 PM, jlukes said: And this isn't just a golf industry problem. This is marking in general. Most of the general population of society does not make truly educated and informed decisions about their purchases. ... I was going to post the same thing. Every product in the good ole USA is marketed. I differ from most here I guess, as I don't find any of the claims false or misleading. As an educated consumer to me "100% accuracy" means if you hit the center and aim it where you want the ball to go, you will be 100% accurate. As a consumer it is up to you to do your own research and find out whether the milled face on the Cobra F8 is "thinner, hotter an more precise" for your swing. Of course it is, or Cobra would not be able to make that claim. But for you, is it 1.1% hotter and .08% more precise"? Or is it 5% hotter and 7% more precise? And of course for some, it will be 0% hotter and 0% more precise. Is the new Srixon Z Series drivers faster than G400, M3/M4 and Rogue*? (notice even the fine print does not say whether the drivers were tested at 90 mph or 120 mph.) ... I enjoy marketing and love finding out if Jailbreak Technology produces more distance, Turbulators increase aerodynamics and Cobra Tour Length produces longer and more accurate drives. Marketing gives me a starting point but of course I have to follow up and see if it applies to my swing. I think it would suck to see a commercial for a Genesis G80 that basically said "Yea, the G80 will get you from point A to point B. There are other cars that are faster and others are slower. Steering wheel, brakes, seats and an engine. So hey, take a look and if it is something that might appeal to you, maybe take one for a test drive". (I edited this post to say I do not include infomercial products like the GX7, the Hammer, etc.) *Claims based on independent tests conducted by Golf Laboratories, commissioned by Srixon. The ball speed from Srixon Z 785 driver is faster than Callaway Rogue by 2.3 mph, M3 by 2.2 mph, M4 by 2.0 mph, and G400 by 2.7 mph. Results from robotic test averaging 5 impact locations on each driver: center, high, low, heel, and toe. All drivers were S-Flex in their neutral hosel settings, with stated lofts 9.0° or 9.5°. Rogue is a product of Callaway Golf Company. M3 and M4 are products and trademarks of TaylorMade. G400 is a product of PING. Callaway Golf Company, TaylorMade, and PING are not affiliated with Srixon. Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment
fixyurdivot Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 hours ago, GB13 said: I really don't think MGS cares too much about marketing claims. They eliminate all false advertising and outlandish claims by doing Most Wanted testing. MGS bases their results on their #Datacratic method. They don't even look at the advertising claims. The only test I can think of where they even mentioned crazy advertising claims is on the GX7 test. They looked at the 5 outlandish claims in the infomercial and rated them based on the truth. Well, the GX7 example is basically what I'm asking; is there a central "truth digest" that one can quickly look to see if a particular product has been tested and, if so, how it performed? G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment
null Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Well, the GX7 example is basically what I'm asking; is there a central "truth digest" that one can quickly look to see if a particular product has been tested and, if so, how it performed? If only there was such a place....https://mygolfspy.com/golfbusters-gx7-x-metal/ Link to comment
Kor.A.Door Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 5 hours ago, tommc23 said: You could roll the ball on your line 100% of the time but miss read the putt every time. Does that mean it isn't accurate because it rolled the intended line all the time but they can't read a green? Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app I never miss my line Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment
fixyurdivot Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 38 minutes ago, jlukes said: If only there was such a place.... https://mygolfspy.com/golfbusters-gx7-x-metal/ If I'd have seen this before I purchased this used driver, I would have bought two. Actually, in this review, they do address some of Callaway's claims about it. I may have missed it, but is there a search function from this page? https://mygolfspy.com/callaway-razr-fit-driver-review/ G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment
null Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 If I'd have seen this before I purchased this used driver, I would have bought two. Actually, in this review, they do address some of Callaway's claims about it. I may have missed it, but is there a search function from this page? https://mygolfspy.com/callaway-razr-fit-driver-review/Google works best. Type in the club your interested in and mygolfspy and see what comes up.... Link to comment
tony@CIC Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Google works best. Type in the club your interested in and mygolfspy and see what comes up.... +1. That works a lot better the search feature on this site. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment
pulledabill Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 I guess my rule if thumb is never fully trust someone who is making their living selling you something. I will listen to a pitch but decipher on my own if it is right for me. I do believe MGS has the consumer in their best interest. DRIVER: Cobra F9 10.5 Tensei AV Blue 65g 3W- Callway XR PRO 16 stiff 5W- Alpha- Mitsubishi Diamana Redboard w/band Irons- Mizuno JPX 919 Tours with S KBS Tour shafts Hyrbid- TM 4h mid-rescue Vokey- Vokey SM5 51 degrees, SM7 Wedges 54 and 58 1/2 half 3 degrees upright Putter- Taylor Made Rossa Monza Mini Spider Ball-ProV1 and AVX Link to comment
fixyurdivot Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 The GX7 (as seen on TV) wonder club review is actually pretty interesting. Most of these "last club you'll ever need" commercials just make me laugh and I expect to see them showing up at garage sales and second hand shops. But the GX7 didn't fall woefully short on all claims. Now what about this "Tee-less Driver"? G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment
cnosil Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said: The GX7 (as seen on TV) wonder club review is actually pretty interesting. Most of these "last club you'll ever need" commercials just make me laugh and I expect to see them showing up at garage sales and second hand shops. But the GX7 didn't fall woefully short on all claims. Now what about this "Tee-less Driver"? The Tee Less driver does live up to its claims. I have hit one and actually own one. It increases spin over the traditional 3 wood so you get more height and potentially more distance. I have seen testing and saw players gain 15+ yards. If your 3w swing starts to get over 100 mph there may start to be distance tradeoffs but you will get straighter ball flights. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
revkev Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 My thought on the Tee Less driver is that it’s another stretch 3 wood. I’m sure it works for the right player - like most clubs Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment
NiftyNiblick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 9:19 AM, fixyurdivot said: So short of reading through the myriad of test reports MGS has published about the various equipment manufacturers products, has the staff at MGS developed a ranking as to which is most factual about their claims? Among OEM's is there one that stands out as most factual and one that stands out as offering mostly fiction? Naturally, the big names produce the most advertising, and with advertising, comes some pretty outlandish claims. If stretching the truth moves the sales needle, the ends justifies the means as they say - Caveat Emptor. I would love to know if the (T)Less driver claims come close to being true. If so, my perfect driver came out too late for me. The claim is a large, titanium driver specifically designed and weighted for the player to hit down at the ball as with an iron shot. I have the potential to be even more miserable than I am now if this driver actually works. It has the footprint of a 460cc titanium driver but displaces less volume due to a shallow face designed for teeing the ball low or not at all. The center of gravity is moved way back from the face and much lower as on a fairway wood, all in direct opposition to modern, low spin trends. It's also got a shorter, 43½" shaft for accuracy. If it's even close to being legit, it would probably have turned two or three of my many driving iron tee shots into driver tee shots. It just doesn't seem like the type of club anybody on this forum would try, however, so I'll never know. [edit: I missed CNOSIL's comment.] Link to comment
null Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I would love to know if the (T)Less driver claims come close to being true. If so, my perfect driver came out too late for me. The claim is a large, titanium driver specifically designed and weighted for the player to hit down at the ball as with an iron shot. I have the potential to be even more miserable than I am now if this driver actually works. It has the footprint of a 460cc titanium driver but displaces less volume due to a shallow face designed for teeing the ball low or not at all. The center of gravity is moved way back from the face and much lower as on a fairway wood, all in direct opposition to modern, low spin trends. It's also got a shorter, 43½" shaft for accuracy. If it's even close to being legit, it would probably have turned two or three of my many driving iron tee shots into driver tee shots. It just doesn't seem like the type of club anybody on this forum would try, however, so I'll never know. Seriously. If the game means this much to you go see all doctor and physical therapist and exhaust every option until you can play again Link to comment
NiftyNiblick Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I genuinely appreciate the thought behind your encouragement, jlukes. Link to comment
MaxEntropy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I would love to know if the (T)Less driver claims come close to being true. If so, my perfect driver came out too late for me. The claim is a large, titanium driver specifically designed and weighted for the player to hit down at the ball as with an iron shot. I have the potential to be even more miserable than I am now if this driver actually works. It has the footprint of a 460cc titanium driver but displaces less volume due to a shallow face designed for teeing the ball low or not at all. The center of gravity is moved way back from the face and much lower as on a fairway wood, all in direct opposition to modern, low spin trends. It's also got a shorter, 43½" shaft for accuracy. If it's even close to being legit, it would probably have turned two or three of my many driving iron tee shots into driver tee shots. It just doesn't seem like the type of club anybody on this forum would try, however, so I'll never know. See 2 posts above yours. I consider cnosil a very well respected member here and he apparently owns one. Sent from my SM-G965U using MyGolfSpy mobile app Edit: just saw nifty's edit. Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment
null Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, NiftyNiblick said: I genuinely appreciate the thought behind your encouragement, jlukes. I'm glad you took it how I intended. It is obvious playing this game means a lot to you, so fight for it! Link to comment
chisag Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, jlukes said: I'm glad you took it how I intended. It is obvious playing this game means a lot to you, so fight for it! ... Amen jlukes!!! Dr told me my golfing days were over after my first back surgery in '95. LOL, as if that was a possibility. 2 years ago and a torn labrum that turned into a frozen shoulder, another Doc said I should have surgery and I might want think about giving up golf. A year later after religiously rehabbing twice a week I was good as new ... good enough to play. Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment
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