Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[Bobbers]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:40 PM, Karlan said:

I have been thinking of trying a lighter shaft for my callaway utility wood as well. The problem is I have no idea what shaft might be appropriate. I have the PLB 45g in L in my driver. The current shaft in my utility wood is a project x hzrdus black 70g stiff. It is 41,5 in length and the swing weight is D3-D4 according to the Callaway website. Im looking for the same feel to slightly stiffer than the driver. I guess the swing weight should be D1 as in the driver? Id like to play it the same length as it is now. Any ideas for a shaft?

Grab another PLB.  I did it for my fairway woods and got the same benefits as with the driver.  Remember, it's a butt trim only so  no need to worry about how much to trim from the tip.

[Karlan]

5 hours ago, Bobbers said:

Grab another PLB.  I did it for my fairway woods and got the same benefits as with the driver.  Remember, it's a butt trim only so  no need to worry about how much to trim from the tip.

Thanks Bobbers, sounds good. Usually the shaft for a fairway wood would be maybe 10-15 grams heavier than the driver shaft. But you are not having any issues playing the same weight? 

Looked around a bit for something slightly heavier, could something like the UST golf 65 work? It says on the site that it is 59 grams.

https://www.nordicagolf.se/ust-mamiya-gold-65-grafit-wood-senior

Of course if you think the PLB would work I would prefer to get that, maybe in A flex even though I got the L in the driver? As the Callaway U Wood has no adapter, is my best bet to just leave the club with the pro shop for them to fix? 

 

[Bobbers]

5 hours ago, Karlan said:

Thanks Bobbers, sounds good. Usually the shaft for a fairway wood would be maybe 10-15 grams heavier than the driver shaft. But you are not having any issues playing the same weight? 

Looked around a bit for something slightly heavier, could something like the UST golf 65 work? It says on the site that it is 59 grams.

https://www.nordicagolf.se/ust-mamiya-gold-65-grafit-wood-senior

Of course if you think the PLB would work I would prefer to get that, maybe in A flex even though I got the L in the driver? As the Callaway U Wood has no adapter, is my best bet to just leave the club with the pro shop for them to fix? 

 

I agree with trying the L flex in the PLB for your utility club.  Keep in mind that it's not just the weight of the shaft that matters, the flex profile does as well and the PLB has had the most success over the range of people here who have tried it.  Tell the pro shop you want the club at D0-D1 when it's finished.

[Karlan]

Thanks! It seems crazy to me to play a shaft that light and flexible in the fairway wood. But on the other hand it seemed crazy in the driver as well and it worked :). I will give it a try. I saw a chart somewhere that 9 grams lighter shaft will give 1 sw point less. If thats correct, then the club should be about d0-d1 with a 25 gram lighter shaft (45 in PLB vs current 70)? The callaway website lists the club in standard at sw d3-d4. Or are there more factors in play? Thanks again for all the help, this is truly a new world for me. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Karlan

[Michaels48895]

Read a lot of these posts and thought I would give it a try… Purchased Fujikura Motore F8 50 Callaway Original OptiFit Driver Ladies 53g Shaft on E bay.. $14 and bought a Rogue adapter to fit. Had to remove Optifit adapter and install the new one also had to extend shaft about 2”. Played a few round in very cold 40’s temps. So far impressive results AND seem to be hitting ball straighter. Going to head to simulator and test more in the next week. 

[Bobbers]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:50 AM, Karlan said:

Thanks! It seems crazy to me to play a shaft that light and flexible in the fairway wood. But on the other hand it seemed crazy in the driver as well and it worked :). I will give it a try. I saw a chart somewhere that 9 grams lighter shaft will give 1 sw point less. If thats correct, then the club should be about d0-d1 with a 25 gram lighter shaft (45 in PLB vs current 70)? The callaway website lists the club in standard at sw d3-d4. Or are there more factors in play? Thanks again for all the help, this is truly a new world for me. 

It's next to impossible to determine that, unfortunately.  Weight is one thing, HOW that weight is distributed along the weight of the shaft is what really determines swing weight.  Trying to figure that out without the shaft, head, and grip to work with is only going to frustrate you to no end.  If it were me I'd simply give it a go and proceed from there.  Sorry I can't be more specific.

[Bobbers]

12 hours ago, Michaels48895 said:

Read a lot of these posts and thought I would give it a try… Purchased Fujikura Motore F8 50 Callaway Original OptiFit Driver Ladies 53g Shaft on E bay.. $14 and bought a Rogue adapter to fit. Had to remove Optifit adapter and install the new one also had to extend shaft about 2”. Played a few round in very cold 40’s temps. So far impressive results AND seem to be hitting ball straighter. Going to head to simulator and test more in the next week. 

It IS amazing what results people have been getting by just simply giving it a try.  Keep us posted on your simulator results if time permits, ok?

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:24 PM, azstu324 said:

So on the topic of OP irons. Some of you may know that I was selected for the MGS Nippon 850 Neo testing. This is a tough one for me to decide as the last thing I want to do is choose a flex that won't allow me maximize every angle of the shafts potential and prevent me from doing a thorough legitimate review. I also have to remember that I'm doing this test primarily for MGS and Nippon and not for the OP thread.. BUT it would be really sweet to kind of dona double test for both threads if possible. 

Well tonight I was able to get a little sneak peak of how the Neo performs. I'll admit that the shaft that I tested tonight wasn't an exact match but it was a 950 NEO as there were no 850s available. After tonight's test, I feel pretty confident in saying that I think the R flex will actually work. I realize that steel R flex 95g might not be a true OP but I'm hoping that the 85g version playing + 1/2" will put me closer to acceptable OP specs. 

The two clubs compared are my current Maltby TS-1 7i @ 32° with 115g FCM Precision Rifle 6.5 shaft and a Srixon ZX7 @ 32° with the Nippon 950 NEO. These 2 clubs should be fairly comparable to each other as far as performance and intended market. 

Maltby TS-1

ZX7

The interesting bits are the ball speed, carry, launch, height, and spin are all higher on the Srixon. Disbursement is identical. I didn't change anything from one to the other as far as how hard I was swinging the club. Each club got the 75% treatment but yielded pretty significantly different results. 

Now.. here's a question for anyone who's carried the experiment over to their irons. Did you treat the SW the same? Did you keep it relatively low @ D0-D1 as you would the driver? Or did you go a little higher? OR did you do anything progressive? Now I'm just faced with the dilemma of how I'm going to have my clubs built. I'm thinking progressive SW but within a fairly tight range. I.e. D0 in 4 - 5, D1 in 6 - 7, D2 in 8-9, and D3 in P-GW. 

Thoughts? Input? 

 

 

 

Have someone moi match it for you. Or do 3/8” between clubs. That should give you thought 0.5 SW between clubs. Also find what one you hit the best and center around that. 

[cksurfdude]

I'm an idiot...

Been taking my wife's old Cobra Amp Cell driver to the range - initially to trial lighter/flexier but also to literally practice with as I have this continuing problem with hitting driver...

Despite a few promising hits with it, it's been more miss ... and I uhh umm .. I ahh never checked the SW .. assumed (d'oh) that it was about C9 which is arbitrarily close enough to D0ish...

After yesterday's range session decided to put it on my basic balance beam scale .. well .. turns out it's about C6..!! (d'oh)

Had a few old F8 weights and one is just right to get the SW to right about D0.5 ... so a little double-sided tape and it's now on the bottom of the driver. "New" hitting results TBD!

[Vernon]

Installed a Pro Launch Blue 45 in A flex in my G425 Max 10.5 degree driver a couple of days ago and have played two rounds since.  Temperatures were colder than I'm accustomed to playing in - 35 all day in round one and 40 with a "Feels Like" of 35 yesterday.  Had the forecast been accurate I wouldn't even have ventured out but both days were anticipated to be upper 40's to low 50's.

Weathermen......

Anyways thus far I really like the feel of the shaft especially in the cold and wearing way too many clothes as it is so much easier to load and swing with some speed.

However, I haven't noticed any significant distance gains as of yet but under the circumstances it's not really fair to call it a failure.

Plus, my sense is that the headweight is a little too heavy but it's just been too cold out there to mess with swapping out backweights.  

My normal shaft is a Tensei Pro Orange 60 S (aftermarket not the Ping version) and the backweight is whatever was stock in the G425.

I expected to probably hit it a little bit too high as I already hit it higher than optimal as it is with the Tensei and the loft turned down to the big minus.

I'm also apparently spinning it too much as I've hit several that felt and looked like absolute bombs until I got to the ball and they were a not so massive 235 - 245.  

Not awful considering the conditions but certainly no farther than my Tensei.

The weather is supposed to (again) warm up a bit tomorrow and Tuesday but with rain that will likely negate the benefit of the warmer temperatures.  After that it's back to too cold to play for a while so it might be a week or so before I can do anymore meaningful experimenting.

The 10.5 is the first driver I've owned with more than 9 degrees of loft and it was a mistake.  I thought since I was getting older/old that it was the way to go but I was wrong.

Once the G430 is available I'm planning on going back to 9 degrees and I'm sure that will help a bunch.

Nonetheless I love playing around with this kind of stuff so it's entertaining and educational at worst but I still think there's a lot of potential here.

[Bobbers]

3 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

I'm an idiot...

Been taking my wife's old Cobra Amp Cell driver to the range - initially to trial lighter/flexier but also to literally practice with as I have this continuing problem with hitting driver...

Despite a few promising hits with it, it's been more miss ... and I uhh umm .. I ahh never checked the SW .. assumed (d'oh) that it was about C9 which is arbitrarily close enough to D0ish...

After yesterday's range session decided to put it on my basic balance beam scale .. well .. turns out it's about C6..!! (d'oh)

Had a few old F8 weights and one is just right to get the SW to right about D0.5 ... so a little double-sided tape and it's now on the bottom of the driver. "New" hitting results TBD!

Yeah, at that swing weight for me it's like I cannot for the life of me have any sense at all of where the club head is.  Keep us posted.

[Bobbers]

2 hours ago, Vernon said:

Installed a Pro Launch Blue 45 in A flex in my G425 Max 10.5 degree driver a couple of days ago and have played two rounds since.  Temperatures were colder than I'm accustomed to playing in - 35 all day in round one and 40 with a "Feels Like" of 35 yesterday.  Had the forecast been accurate I wouldn't even have ventured out but both days were anticipated to be upper 40's to low 50's.

Weathermen......

Anyways thus far I really like the feel of the shaft especially in the cold and wearing way too many clothes as it is so much easier to load and swing with some speed.

However, I haven't noticed any significant distance gains as of yet but under the circumstances it's not really fair to call it a failure.

Plus, my sense is that the headweight is a little too heavy but it's just been too cold out there to mess with swapping out backweights.  

My normal shaft is a Tensei Pro Orange 60 S (aftermarket not the Ping version) and the backweight is whatever was stock in the G425.

I expected to probably hit it a little bit too high as I already hit it higher than optimal as it is with the Tensei and the loft turned down to the big minus.

I'm also apparently spinning it too much as I've hit several that felt and looked like absolute bombs until I got to the ball and they were a not so massive 235 - 245.  

Not awful considering the conditions but certainly no farther than my Tensei.

The weather is supposed to (again) warm up a bit tomorrow and Tuesday but with rain that will likely negate the benefit of the warmer temperatures.  After that it's back to too cold to play for a while so it might be a week or so before I can do anymore meaningful experimenting.

The 10.5 is the first driver I've owned with more than 9 degrees of loft and it was a mistake.  I thought since I was getting older/old that it was the way to go but I was wrong.

Once the G430 is available I'm planning on going back to 9 degrees and I'm sure that will help a bunch.

Nonetheless I love playing around with this kind of stuff so it's entertaining and educational at worst but I still think there's a lot of potential here.

I know for me here in Wisconsin the days in the 30's wreak havoc in the sense of knowing what to expect.  The effect of the cold weather on ball flight is devastating, same with spin.

That said, it's nice to have another person experimenting.  Have fun and please, positive or negative, keep us posted. 

One theme seems to be that the move to the softer flex adds to spin and most of the people experimenting have found turning down the loft if they have an adjustable driver is beneficial.  In normal weather that is...

[DukeStKing]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:09 PM, DukeStKing said:

Well folks, you will benefit from my mistake. I was taking an adapter off an Evenflow Senio 40 gram shaft and a melted the tip. Doesn’t seem to be damaged an inch up so I tipped it an inch. I’ll report back what that does to our Otto Phlex journey. Maybe my anger/frustration with my impatience (not enough heat when I made the first twist) will turn into something great. We’ll see. 

Just got my G425 Max head back from PING and I put the tipped Evenflow 40 gram on with the stock 26 gram weight and it’s at D1- how serendipitous! 
Can’t wait to hit it- could be the high MOI head with the 26 gram weight with an Otto Phlex effect- maybe the best of both worlds. I’ll update when I can. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by DukeStKing

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, DukeStKing said:

Just got my G425 Max head back from PING and I put the tipped Evenflow 40 gram on with the stock 26 gram weight and it’s at D1- how serendipitous! 
Can’t wait to hit it- could be the high MOI head with the 26 gram weight with an Otto Phlex effect- maybe the best of both worlds. I’ll update when I can. 

Given our snow cover I look forward to hearing your results.

[DukeStKing]

26 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

Given our snow cover I look forward to hearing your results.

We just got snow in NJ- never lasts though… 

I will be getting on my friend’s simulator to get some baseline numbers for my irons because I was lucky enough to be picked to review the Nippon 850’s, so I should have some numbers on the tipped Evenflow 40 gram and the Ping Distanza 40 gram shaft. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by DukeStKing

[Bang60]

Looks like I'm hitting my ladies shafts Mizuno Widex 'll woods and irons tomorrow first time, depending how I feel it's the nets or 9holes...

[peakation]

I have now tried both my PLB shafts. A and L flex. Both at 47 inches and at SW D3.1. I have tried lighter (C8.4) but I could not feel the head. I have some more weights now, so will try to tune it closer to D0-1.

Several sessions with the A flex and this outperforms my regular stiff shaft in CHS. Some of it must be longer shaft length, about an inch, but not all of it. I have some previous posts with numbers.

Got to test the L flex last session on trackman, and it felt very whippy. I lost almost all the balls to the right and had no "control". The feel of the shaft was way more extreme than the A flex. It might be a testament to going down 2 flexes thing. But then again flex is not a good measure. I think we just have to try and find what fits best.

I think I have to go down in length to find the better part of the clubface more often, but then again I had an experiment last year with a 48 inch stiff shaft in a ping head that worked well at the time. D1.6 but overall head and shaft weight is 38 grams more. Tried that again too, but could not get the speed up. Lighter shaft (and head) is definitely better for speed. I don't think we should get lost in getting the swing weight correct without thinking about overall weight too. It is more mass in your hands (even more if counterweighted) that needs to be moved.

My experiments will continue. Hope to hear from more of you!

Edited December 13, 2022 by peakation

[Bobbers]

2 hours ago, peakation said:

I have now tried both my PLB shafts. A and L flex. Both at 47 inches and at SW D3.1. I have tried lighter (C8.4) but I could not feel the head. I have some more weights now, so will try to tune it closer to D0-1.

Several sessions with the A flex and this outperforms my regular stiff shaft in CHS. Some of it must be longer shaft length, about an inch, but not all of it. I have some previous posts with numbers.

Got to test the L flex last session on trackman, and it felt very whippy. I lost almost all the balls to the right and had no "control". The feel of the shaft was way more extreme than the A flex. It might be a testament to going down 2 flexes thing. But then again flex is not a good measure. I think we just have to try and find what fits best.

I think I have to go down in length to find the better part of the clubface more often, but then again I had an experiment last year with a 48 inch stiff shaft in a ping head that worked well at the time. D1.6 but overall head and shaft weight is 38 grams more. Tried that again too, but could not get the speed up. Lighter shaft (and head) is definitely better for speed. I don't think we should get lost in getting the swing weight correct without thinking about overall weight too. It is more mass in your hands (even more if counterweighted) that needs to be moved.

My experiments will continue. Hope to hear from more of you!

I believe, specific to the ProLaunch, that the swing weight of D0-D1 is a key to matching how the head moves through the hitting zone.  I'll be interested to see how your experiments proceed with having more opportunity to adjust the  weight.

[azstu324]

3 hours ago, peakation said:

I have now tried both my PLB shafts. A and L flex. Both at 47 inches and at SW D3.1. I have tried lighter (C8.4) but I could not feel the head. I have some more weights now, so will try to tune it closer to D0-1.

Several sessions with the A flex and this outperforms my regular stiff shaft in CHS. Some of it must be longer shaft length, about an inch, but not all of it. I have some previous posts with numbers.

Got to test the L flex last session on trackman, and it felt very whippy. I lost almost all the balls to the right and had no "control". The feel of the shaft was way more extreme than the A flex. It might be a testament to going down 2 flexes thing. But then again flex is not a good measure. I think we just have to try and find what fits best.

I think I have to go down in length to find the better part of the clubface more often, but then again I had an experiment last year with a 48 inch stiff shaft in a ping head that worked well at the time. D1.6 but overall head and shaft weight is 38 grams more. Tried that again too, but could not get the speed up. Lighter shaft (and head) is definitely better for speed. I don't think we should get lost in getting the swing weight correct without thinking about overall weight too. It is more mass in your hands (even more if counterweighted) that needs to be moved.

My experiments will continue. Hope to hear from more of you!

What me and quite a few have found interesting is that 45-46" seems to be the sweet spot where all of the stars align.. at least with the PLB.  For a while there's been the theory of the shorter shaft = better contact = more accuracy.. but not really any distance gains. The PLB setup at 45" for me has resulted in a good noticeable mix of confidence to hit, accuracy, AND easy distance.. it also happened to be that 45" helped get the SW right where I want it. 

I think that the Ping players seem to have the most tinkering on their hands due to the higher starting head weight and the need to bring that static weight portion of the club down some. Playing a 45" - 46" shaft might be the more natural way to get the SW in that range. And you're right about maintaining focus on overall weight, but I think that still needs to be balanced with the SW in mind. In theory, we could add 10 lb weights to both ends and maintain a D1 but that just wouldn't be practical and would probably snap the shaft in half a long with flexing the face all sorts of directions. I think the trick here is to find the SW in the most natural way possible without adding too much weight to either end. 

Somewhere in this haystack, I posted the head weight of my 0311 for a reference point for anybody looking for D0-1 while playing 45". I know that handle weight also plays a part so I also posted the shaft weight along with grip wrapping and weight. From there, you can kind of figure the math for longer options. 

Don't let up on dialing it in. For most of us it just clicks when everything falls into place. 

Keep us posted! 

[azstu324]

Well well well..

This was just posted by TXG. 

And this was just posted by someone in the comments..

 

[azstu324]

Hey y'all

So I want to post a separate thread with an official OttoPhlex survey as I think it's time. I've never done this sort of thing and know that there are various types of survey platforms. 

Do any of you have suggestions on very user friendly platform? 

I'm hoping to find one that shows the live results as they're posted but I'm not sure how to go about that. 

Suggestions please!!

 

Thanks!

[Chadvb]

1 hour ago, azstu324 said:

Well well well..

This was just posted by TXG. 

And this was just posted by someone in the comments..

 

Super interesting video, but of course it would be. Would really love to see them not do a premium expensive shaft (I fully understand why they do...) and something, PLB preferred, cheaper and compare to Autoflex, Vanquish, etc. To Dream a dream

[azstu324]

40 minutes ago, Chadvb said:

Super interesting video, but of course it would be. Would really love to see them not do a premium expensive shaft (I fully understand why they do...) and something, PLB preferred, cheaper and compare to Autoflex, Vanquish, etc. To Dream a dream

I'm speculating here.. but I'm guessing that a brand like TXG probably doesn't benefit much from pushing $50 shafts 

[Chadvb]

2 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

I'm speculating here.. but I'm guessing that a brand like TXG probably doesn't benefit much from pushing $50 shafts 

Not much margin there.... lol

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, Chadvb said:

Super interesting video, but of course it would be. Would really love to see them not do a premium expensive shaft (I fully understand why they do...) and something, PLB preferred, cheaper and compare to Autoflex, Vanquish, etc. To Dream a dream

I'd point out, given that various bits of data stick to my brain like fly paper, that the torque he quoted in the video for the Vanquish was .1, yes 1/10th of a degree different than the published torque for the ProLaunch Blue. 

They don't talk swing weight but the added length with the lower weight shaft is, again, pretty much what we've been experiencing here.

And when Matty "went easy" he was still getting more distance than he did with his "gamer", another common report from the people who've tested here.

As to shaft margins...I'm sure the good gentlemen at TXG have no idea or much experience with our $50 PLB's.  Lord knows any of us would have a hard time keeping the lights on running a botique business with small margin $'s to support it.

[Bang60]

3 hours ago, azstu324 said:

What me and quite a few have found interesting is that 45-46" seems to be the sweet spot where all of the stars align.. at least with the PLB.  For a while there's been the theory of the shorter shaft = better contact = more accuracy.. but not really any distance gains. The PLB setup at 45" for me has resulted in a good noticeable mix of confidence to hit, accuracy, AND easy distance.. it also happened to be that 45" helped get the SW right where I want it. 

I think that the Ping players seem to have the most tinkering on their hands due to the higher starting head weight and the need to bring that static weight portion of the club down some. Playing a 45" - 46" shaft might be the more natural way to get the SW in that range. And you're right about maintaining focus on overall weight, but I think that still needs to be balanced with the SW in mind. In theory, we could add 10 lb weights to both ends and maintain a D1 but that just wouldn't be practical and would probably snap the shaft in half a long with flexing the face all sorts of directions. I think the trick here is to find the SW in the most natural way possible without adding too much weight to either end. 

Somewhere in this haystack, I posted the head weight of my 0311 for a reference point for anybody looking for D0-1 while playing 45". I know that handle weight also plays a part so I also posted the shaft weight along with grip wrapping and weight. From there, you can kind of figure the math for longer options. 

Don't let up on dialing it in. For most of us it just clicks when everything falls into place. 

Keep us posted! 

Have to agree with the shorter length shaft "mine 44.5 inches" but I think it's how all the components work so well in unison, length flex lower loft and swing tempo and remember Tiger I believe was playing 43.5 inch shaft and flogging every one...

[Bang60]

16 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

I'd point out, given that various bits of data stick to my brain like fly paper, that the torque he quoted in the video for the Vanquish was .1, yes 1/10th of a degree different than the published torque for the ProLaunch Blue. 

They don't talk swing weight but the added length with the lower weight shaft is, again, pretty much what we've been experiencing here.

And when Matty "went easy" he was still getting more distance than he did with his "gamer", another common report from the people who've tested here.

As to shaft margins...I'm sure the good gentlemen at TXG have no idea or much experience with our $50 PLB's.  Lord knows any of us would have a hard time keeping the lights on running a botique business with small margin $'s to support it.

I'm sceptical of those kinds of review and ignore them because I think it's paid for, as you say they don't use the $50 shafts that most golfers do...

[Bobbers]

2 hours ago, azstu324 said:

Hey y'all

So I want to post a separate thread with an official OttoPhlex survey as I think it's time. I've never done this sort of thing and know that there are various types of survey platforms. 

Do any of you have suggestions on very user friendly platform? 

I'm hoping to find one that shows the live results as they're posted but I'm not sure how to go about that. 

Suggestions please!!

 

Thanks!

I know squat about survey platforms.  I DO, however, get a lot of surveys that use something called, delightfully, "Survey Monkey".

What is it you're specifically wanting to survey people about in relation to O-PH?

[azstu324]

3 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

I'm sceptical of those kinds of review and ignore them because I think it's paid for, as you say they don't use the $50 shafts that most golfers do...

Ha ha, that was more or less my passive aggressive poke as to why they wouldn't ever showcase a shaft like PLB or anything in the sub-$75 category. 

MGS on the other hand, it's stuff like this that keeps the motor running. And the fact that TXG, and quite a few other brands/people out there have done a collaboration or referenced a MGS review in one way or another, tells me that a published release by MGS on this topic might prove to be very entertaining to say the least. 

[azstu324]

15 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

What is it you're specifically wanting to survey people about in relation to O-PH?

I think that it would be good for others who might be on the fence about doing this to see what kind of success rate.. or not, people are having. As the results are coming in, we can see a live graph. 

 

It would look something like this

Tell us about your OttoPhlex experience

° Gained noticeable distance 

° Better control

° More confidence

° Game changer! Gained distance, Confidence, AND control!

°  Tried it, but it's not for me

° Still tinkering but hopeful

Something like this