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Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey


azstu324

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@azstu324 this is absolutely fascinating. You've got me thinking about experimenting with my TSi2.

In the bag:
Driver:cobra-small: Darkspeed X 9°  UST Mamiya LIN-Q M40X Blue 7F4
Fairway: :callaway-logo-1: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
Bag: 
:callaway-logo-1: Fairway 14 stand bag
Balls: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


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You sir have peaked my curiousity!

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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I tried going lighter myself recently but tried to keep the flex up, but in the end there was an issue as that shaft snapped after maybe 100 hits, but it was a smaller shaft company. Might try the graffaloy play here as I have 98 in paypal credit from the first shaft. Its worth a shot I feel like. Thanks for sharing!

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° :Fuji: Ventus Blue 6X  (2021 Official Review) | :callaway-small:Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0
:titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | 
image.png.08bbf5bb553da418019f0db13c6f4f9a.png SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW  image.png.267751aa721ee9cf3944fa2ff070b98c.png  Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | :cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0
:ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by :ShotScope: V3

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10 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

I tried going lighter myself recently but tried to keep the flex up, but in the end there was an issue as that shaft snapped after maybe 100 hits, but it was a smaller shaft company. Might try the graffaloy play here as I have 98 in paypal credit from the first shaft. Its worth a shot I feel like. Thanks for sharing!

Only time will tell right? I'm really hopeful that the lighter SW will play a factor in the amount of stress placed on the shaft and that it would be safe from a catastrophic failure. With either AutoPhlex option I don't feel like it's so whippy that it's on the verge of snapping so hopefully it stays that way😬

   PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:cobra-small:  F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X
:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
:edel-golf-1:  EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 

MAXFLI  Tour CG

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, azstu324 said:

Only time will tell right? I'm really hopeful that the lighter SW will play a factor in the amount of stress placed on the shaft and that it would be safe from a catastrophic failure. With either AutoPhlex option I don't feel like it's so whippy that it's on the verge of snapping so hopefully it stays that way😬

Mine never really felt whippy just think it might have been bad luck really as I mean it splintered. It didn't just break in half. Yes though time will tell.

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 9° :Fuji: Ventus Blue 6X  (2021 Official Review) | :callaway-small:Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0
:titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Motors Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Chemical industry Mitsubishi  Rayon Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, mitsubishi, blue, company png |  PNGEgg Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | 
image.png.08bbf5bb553da418019f0db13c6f4f9a.png SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW  image.png.267751aa721ee9cf3944fa2ff070b98c.png  Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review)
:ping-small: Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | :cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0
:ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :titelist-small: Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by :ShotScope: V3

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Autoflexx was a craze that didn’t pan out to be much better for most golfers and many of the pros who tried it ditched it pretty quick.

Its all about finding the right feel, weight and balance of a shaft and club for the golfer.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Excellent experiment and story.  I too want to try this experiment.  My swing speed isn't close to your 111 mph, but I do play a stiff profile shaft in the driver for control.  

Ping G430 Max 10k 9° w/UST MP5 L-Flex

Ping G425 3 wood 14.5° w/Ventus Velocore Blue-6R tipped 1"

Cleveland Halo Launcher 5 wood 18° with Project X Cypher R

Callaway Rogue 19° hybrid regular

PXG Gen 3 0311XF 5 - G steel regular

Corey Paul wedges bent to 53° and 58°

Scotty Cameron Phantom X 11.5 putter

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This is awesome. So much so I am tempted to try despite my success with Ventus black. I once had a 5w in a ladies shaft and let a buddy try it. When he timed it right he was hitting it as far as his driver. All comes down to timing and feel. Do I really want to do this to myself. 

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, David Leighton Reid said:

Excellent experiment and story.  I too want to try this experiment.  My swing speed isn't close to your 111 mph, but I do play a stiff profile shaft in the driver for control.  

In your case, there's L (not Ladies but Lite flex) 

I'll be completely honest I really wouldn't know where to direct someone who plays softer than Stiff. So I sure hope that question doesn't come up😜

   PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:cobra-small:  F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X
:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
:edel-golf-1:  EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 

MAXFLI  Tour CG

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

This is awesome. So much so I am tempted to try despite my success with Ventus black. I once had a 5w in a ladies shaft and let a buddy try it. When he timed it right he was hitting it as far as his driver. All comes down to timing and feel. Do I really want to do this to myself. 

This is exactly why the $60 range of shafts will work for so many. It's not so expensive that you'll kick yourself for trying it out. 

At the end of the day, if this doesn't work for you, sell the shaft or keep it for a makeshift swing tempo trainer.. I.e. homemade Orange Whip or Lag Shot. 

   PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:cobra-small:  F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X
:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
:edel-golf-1:  EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 

MAXFLI  Tour CG

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Great write up.  Love the experiment and the results!  I’m like you, I like the budget way to improve my game and don’t really want to spend $100 on a new shaft so looking for a cheap A flex in the 40 gram range is on my list.   When MGS gets back from mental health week I am going to suggest this as a lab that they do with some of their testers (my selfish way of trying to do this experiment on the cheap 😂)   

All that I ask is that if they publish something whether it be an article or video, that they accredit the Forum. Not me (unless you really feel inclined 😜).. But just that this idea was born through the MGS forum members 😬

   PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:cobra-small:  F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X
:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
:edel-golf-1:  EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 

MAXFLI  Tour CG

 

 

 

 

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Simon just put this one out today. This is AWESOME! Everything that this experiment is about. Leave the ego at the door and just play what works! 

 

 

   PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:cobra-small:  F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X
:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
:edel-golf-1:  EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 

MAXFLI  Tour CG

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I think that this topic fully encompasses the MGS spirit of debunking a pretty hyped up marketing claim and/or discussing alternatives that take all of the marketing hype out of the equation and stick to the hard facts.

MGS Best Quote of the Month. Golf experimenters unite!

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20 hours ago, azstu324 said:

You read it correctly.. "Otto Phlex". I'm sure there's not a person on MGS or in the golf world who hasn't heard of (or seen) the Auto Flex shaft. For those of you who have been living under a rock for the past couple of years, Auto Flex is a South Korean company that has basically branded their flagship shaft as a very flexible, but high performing, high tech, and somewhat "magic" shaft made with "Secret Hidden Korean Technology". The concept lends itself to the idea that a specific flexy profile can help increase clubhead and ball speed, while increasing launch and keeping spin relatively low, and improving disbursement and forgiveness, therefore yielding results of long, straight, towering bombs.. I mean, who doesn't what that right? Another claim is that while keeping the profile relatively soft, tempo improves, and the overall risk for injury can be reduced. 

Well I'll be one of the first to admit it. I was NEVER enamored by the claims and especially the price of the AutoFlex. Oh, and let's not forget about the color scheme.. Ultra Hot Pink? not my jam Sam. As a sole provider trying my best to balance a decent golf game on a budget with my family life, spending $800+ on a hot pink golf shaft just isn't something that interests me.. regardless of the claims. 

Well over the past year or so, there have been a few Youtube channels that have showcased the AutoFlex Hack.. or as I like to call it, the "Otto Phlex". It has been somewhat theorized that the secret sauce to the AutoFlex is based on the following basic profile characteristics: 2-3 flexes lighter than your preferred flex or frequency, at least 1 or even 2 weight classes lower than your preferred weight, a swingweight between D1 and D2 depending on the flex, and a mid/high launch profile. It has also been debated that the Autoflex works best when it's at least 46" or longer. I tried starting at 46.5" and just didn't like the length. I then tried shorter .5" increments and I ended up at 45" and I'll explain how I got there in a bit. 

OK before anybody sounds the alarm, I realize that all of these characteristics are subject to each shaft company's interpretation and that there is no such thing as a standardized R, S, X, etc, flex shaft. All of these characteristics are based on broad generalities and this experiment has quite a bit of wiggle room so don't get your plaid golf knickers in a twist. (there, got that out of the way)

I've been playing the MotoreX F1 6X for the past 2 years. It's an XS shaft according to Fujikura, it weighs in at about 68g uncut. I've played it at about D5 SW but the shaft can take the extra head weight with no issues. Up until very recently, this was supposed to be my "Forever" shaft. It just works and up to this point I just couldn't find anything better. This is however going by conventional wisdom standards that with 110+ mph swing speed, I need to play either a hefty stiff or XS profile shaft and my preferred weight has always been sub 70g in driver. 

InShot_20200305_221841708.jpg.541d033200b300b2437e53ea96abea52.jpg

InShot_20200305_133644033.jpg.aa8d0e1e7e5e9f7bd4d19c09a0cffdc9.jpg

 

My Otto Phlex profile should look something like this: A flex, 45 - 55g, High Launch with low loft setting or mid launch with standard loft setting. Torque is another factor that can be thrown into the debate ring as having any value. The AutoFlex from what I've read is around a 4.0 torque rating. I believe torque can be important with this experiment because we're really treading on the edge of making sure the shaft bends but doesn't twist. Too high of torque rating and you may be pushing things a little too far. 
 

DISCLAIMER 1: I realize that this is a subject that might rub some folks the wrong way.. namely those who've spent the $ and are completely bought into the Autoflex concept.. or those who've done the research, had a fitting, and are about to pull the trigger on one. I think that this topic fully encompasses the MGS spirit of debunking a pretty hyped up marketing claim and/or discussing alternatives that take all of the marketing hype out of the equation and stick to the hard facts. Does the concept actually work? Can I make an Otto Phlex shaft that performs similarly or better than the real thing while nixing the insane price tag by following the guidelines listed above? 

DISCLAIMER 2: just because I'm finding success with this at the moment, it doesn't mean that it's for everybody. This is definitely a concept that even I'm still working to wrap my head around after playing for 30 years. It definitely has a lot of allure and appeal so the best we can do is try it out, give it some time and formulate final conclusions when the data is adequate. 

Below are a few of the videos that influenced my journey (and a few others like @Samsonite, @blackngold_blood, @cnosil, @cksurfdude, @tommc23, (forgive me if I missed anyone else) down this Otto Phlex rabbit hole. We all started up in the thread discussing the new PXG 0311 Gen5 Driver and ended up directing most of our discussion towards this AutoFlex Hack project because it just worked in such harmonized synchrony with the Gen5 head. Below is the PGX Gen5 thread if you'd like to catch up on what lead to this topic. The top of about page 3 is where the discussion starts to go sideways and turn into AutoFlex hack project 😜

 

Here is the original review by MrShortgame of the Autoflex. Very supportive of the Autoflex performance benefits

 

Here are the colab videos by MrShortgage and MobileClubmaker. Both guys make great and very informative videos and they both know their stuff. 

 

 

 

Simon from SAS did something similar a while back.. He kind of rolls like me. He's all about getting the most out of a budget and still getting some really killer gear. 

 

Freddie Meikle Golf. I found this one as I was looking up more reviews for the PXG Gen 5 and it happened to be that he also stumbled upon the Otto Phlex 

 

After watching these videos about 10x each and saying "hey I can actually do that!", I tracked down a Project X Evenflow Riptide CB. In fact, it's the exact same spec of the shaft in the MrShortgame video. 40g 5.0 A flex. I sourced the shaft from a local OfferUp listing for a PXG Gen4 driver for sale. I reached out and offered the guy a straight trade for the Diamana S series that initially came with my Gen5 driver. Being that he was trying to sell his driver and I was able to gently convince him that an S flex might appeal to a broader audience, he was open for the trade. My fallback plan if all else fails is to plug in my trusty MotoreX and resell the experimental shafts and get on with my life. The only concern that I had was that the Evenflow played at 45" and I was convinced that it needed to be at least 46" for max results so I was already sourcing my shaft extension piece to have ready. Well eventually I discovered that 45" was absolutely perfect and that no extension was needed. I took the shaft back to the workshop, put it in the Gen5 and got the SW calculated to D0. Because of the higher balance point, I needed to add just a little more weight to the head. Luckily I was able to find a 10g PXG weight to replace one of the 7.5g weights and there we go.. I'm sitting right at D1.5.

0918222111.jpg.f250799100572234f05f85f12dd4c7d2.jpg

Now why is the SW so important with this build? Well this shaft isn't made for swing speeds over 100 MPH.. let alone the 110 - 115 that I'll be imparting on it. From my obsessive gathering of info, if you're able to keep the head weight to a minimum, and keep the swing weight optimal based on the desired shaft frequency (D1 lighter to D2 heavier), you should still be able to apply a max swing without any unwanted torsional head twisting. This is where the head can twist open or shut in addition to the shaft flexing the face up or down and then even more damaging is finding some odd variation in between where the face is flexed open or shut to some degree and then the face lofted or delofted to another degree and then who knows which direction the ball goes? Ultimately, the idea is to be able to put a hefty swing on the club and the ONLY reactional bending is the face increasing in loft, therefore assisting with an easier launch. Other variations are the actual club head itself. Every driver head is engineered for something specific. Luckily in my case, the PXG Gen5 seems to be a perfect mate for this experiment. It's naturally a lower spinning head and has a load of variable weight configurations. I have the 9* head option. 

Here are some standardized #'s from what I've seen with the MotoreX. I no longer have my membership with PGATSS (due to their recent 50% cost spike) so I'm just basing this off of memory from my last few sessions. (not 100%). As you can see though, the MotoreX works well for me. It's not an overly stiff profile. I'd say that it falls right where I need it to be between S+ and XS if I could give it my own classification. It's in the 65g weight class but actually closer to 70g than 65g. 

Launch - 10-12*
Ball Speed - 157 MPH (probably not accurate)
Swing Speed - 111
Carry 270
Spin 1900

Moment of Truth

I took the Project X Evenflow Riptide along with the MotoreX to the Foresight Monitors at an outdoor range. This way I can see true flight and get some basic #'s to help quantify what I'm seeing with my eyes. The only downside is that the balls they use are limited flight which supposedly cut the flight down by 20% and the monitors weren't showing club or ball speed and weren't showing Spin so I was kind of disappointed. The limited results that I did see however blew my socks off. I started off the session with about 20 hits from the MotoreX and saw a nice low-ish draw. The carry was about 250 with rollout to about 270+. Not bad considering the balls were limited flight. I did see my miss come into play a few times which is a hard pull hook. This happens when I'm not fully sync'd and I'm swinging with my arms, chasing the ball, and just flipping the face closed. My shot can quickly go from fairway to neighborhood finder on the wrong layout. 

As soon as I plugged in the "OttoPhlex1" (I'll get to that "1") I could immediately feel the difference but that's to be expected.. the difference however isn't what I was expecting at all. The club actually doesn't feel lighter by weight or Swing Weight. I think there's some kind of trickery about the D1 SW and overall lighter club. The club doesn't feel too light at all. In fact if feels perfect! The SW also doesn't feel like D1 but closer to my preferred D4-5. I'm sure it's more to do with physics than witchcraft but to a lay fool like me.. it's the devil at work! 🤣 JK. when I tee'd up my first ball, it was a high fowl ball to right field.. probably into the parking lot. weird.. OK this is a new sensation to me. At first impression I'm thinking, man this thing's too whippy and twisty. Well I buried that though and hit a few more. The more I hit, the more in sync I was getting and then the easier it became to just hit high towering baby draws. I'll say that the overall height at 9* was probably more than I wanted to see so I ended up cranking the loft down to 7.5 and just like old Bob Parsons himself would put it "KABOOM BABY".. ok I actually really hate PXG marketing but I guess it can have a time and place. You can read more about my thoughts on the Gen5 in the thread above.. but the overall feeling of it paired with the OttoPhlex1 is something else. The launch is effortless and even though I couldn't see the spin or ball speed #'s, I was getting about 15 yds more carry and rollout to about 290 - 300 yds. I went back and plugged the MotoreX in, bumped it back to 9° and then found myself struggling to get the ball in the air. A shaft that I've been familiar with for 2 years all of a sudden became a stranger to me. I had been so completely overtaken by the feeling, flight, and performance of the OttoPhlex1 that I'd completely forgot everything I knew about the MotoreX.. and that was just in 1 hitting session. 

So of course I go home all giddy happy but my silly brain just couldn't rest on 1 thing.. Just like the video with MrShortgame, the PX Evenflow Riptide didn't really feel how the Autoflex looks from videos. Those guys got some real 1/1 comparison and I don't know if I'll ever have that luxury. The shaft just felt like a really smooth, stable "Me" flex. Take the stigma of "# Flex" out of the equation. It isn't really whippy or overly explosive feeling but it just feels like a really nice, stable shaft to play that gave some great results and something that I could definitely game. So that night I went back to looking around for possibly another option that might land me a little closer to the Motore F3 like they used in the video. Looking at all of the comments, it's literally impossible to find that exact shaft anywhere and people were frustrated. Even the current MotoreX F3 is a tad pricy for an experiment. Off the top of my head I knew of a few light weight, low cost options that I could look into. I looked at the UST ProForce V2 in both the HL and standard version, the Aldila NXT GEN NVS Orange, and the classic Garafalloy Pro Launch Blue. All in A flex and ranging between 45 and 55g. Well I settled for the Garafalloy PL based on a very technical analysis of.. Aesthetics 😝. Now we have OttoPhlex2 in the mix. This and all of these are shafts that you can pick up at Golf Galaxy, PGATSS, or Golfworks for around $60, which is about the same price that AJ (Mobileclubmaker) paid for the OG Motore F3 and all seem to fit that general profile. I will add that I started out the GPLB at 46.5". The SW was just too much and I wasn't loving the length. So this is where I shortened it in .5" increments until I just found my glass slipper at 45". 

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I took this out to play a round on Saturday 9/24 and I tell you what.. Just like I was blown away by the improved results with the Evenflow Riptide, I was even more so impressed with the Garafalloy PLB. The round I played was on a tight community Exec course with very narrow fairways. I played the front 9 with the OttoPhlex1 and hit everything! then I played the back with OttoPhlex2 and not only did I hit everything but it was a noticeably longer and higher flight. Not feeling content with the limited amount of playing time during the round, I immediately took to the course driving range afterward to compare both shafts in a long drive battle. Same situation as the other range, they have limited flight balls. It's in a retirement community so the back wall of the range stops at about 290 from the matts and on the other side behind the back wall is a gigantic aluminum storage facility. When it's matts only, I haven't ever hit over the fence. When they push it to grass, and depending how far forward, and when you smash a good drive, you're rewarded with a loud PING when the ball hits the storage facility over the fence.. too many good drives, and the storage facility calls the golf course and you are kindly asked to put your driver away 😬. like I said, from the matts, that's that furthest point from the end of the range and I've never hit one over the fence. So I started the contest with the OttoPhlex1 (Riptide). I hit a lot of nice straight bombs that bounced to the wall but not over. When I put the OttoPhlex2 (GPLB) in, I was clearing the fence almost every 2 or 3 balls. Not only was I clearing the fence but I kept a directional point of a large tree at the back end of the range and everything was at or just outside of the tree. Luckily I finished the bucket and wasn't asked to leave 😛 Well for the finale, I took a used ball from my bag that I planned to retire to my backyard for chipping practice and tee'd it up. I didn't hit the side of the storage facility.. I landed it on the roof which had to be about 30' high and I wasn't rewarded with 1 PING.. but a series of pings as the ball bounced all the way across the rooftop🤯.

I've already made a short story very long but I had a chance to take both shafts to PGATSS to get some better #'s with the Garafalloy PLB. What I found just added to some of the crazy things that I've already seen with this club. Launch from a 7.5* head with little to no effort is right at about 14*. Club head speed 112+ without breaking a sweat. Spin.. 2000 - 2200 RPM. Carry distance an avg of 285 - 290 rolling out to around 315. Shots that I felt like I hit off the planet were just right or left of the green. I will add that I was using my game ball Maxfli Tour CG. 

I've got 1 more potential candidate that I would like to add to the mix and that's the UST ProForce V2 HL or regular V2. TBC

****************

It's getting late. This is phase 1. I'll add some pics and continue more tomorrow. 

*****************

PLEASE feel free to start commenting or sharing any similar stories. I think this could be a really good topic for MGS to cover on their GolfScience channel. 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

Whew!!  I have to read this again and watch the videos .  A lot of information here Grasshopper!!  You definitely put a lot of work in on this!!

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Golfshaft Reviews has his own thoughts on the EI profile and found a similar shaft older model for $50 on eBay. I respect his work which has a modest paywall which is well worth it. Check it out.  

TS2 9/5  Even Flow Black HC 65 6.0

G425 17.5 Diamana Thump 85x

G425 19, 21 KBS Tour Prototype Hybrid 75S

P790 5-PW MMT 105S

Vokey SM8 50, 54, 58

LAB DF2.1

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Autoflex is an amazing shaft. It requires the user to have an even tempo and a smooth direction change. Once that's done however its turn and burn. For me, long, dead straight and money well spent. It is for once, a {way} overpriced and overhyped golf gadget that works. For me it works as advertised. 

The Graffaloy PLB are on my 3 and 5 woods. They are my attempts to inexpensively replicate the Autoflex. They work great but are not Autoflex. However,it is an amazing shaft and I encourage everyone to pick it up in regular flex if you are used to stiff and give it a try. For around $60 it is inexpensive and very underrated imo. Do not cut the tip. Just butt trim it to 46". The real big difference between the two is the butt end of Autoflex is almost as flexible as the tip end. The Graffaloy is much more conventional with a stiffer butt end, particularly in relation to the tip end. I believe it can tolerate a less smooth change in direction, making it more "universal" in appeal than Autoflex, not to mention the price difference.

The PLB will require some reps to get used to the flex into impact. Let me tell you, when you get it right it is just oh so pure feeling. 

Dechambeau uses a regular flex for long drive competition. There is something to it.

Lastly in my experience both shafts play well with standard head weights. I play a Ping G425 Max on mine. Rip it. A lot. 

Edited by pbclubdude
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Thanks for posting this! I ordered the Gen5 7.5 degree back when it was on super sale with the Fujikura Motore X F3 5- R2 with hopes of doing something similar to this. I have my normal Project X Evenflow T1100 6.0 60G shaft that I have used with previous Gen1 and Gen4 heads so figured it would be worth trying the Motore. I swapped weights and lofts but none of that mattered really since I could not consistently find the center of the face with the Motore shaft. Swapped it back to the Evenflow and I suddenly started getting better contact. I wish I would have seen this before I ordered I probably would have just got the Riptide with no upcharge. Now you have me thinking maybe I can get them to swap it out for me? If not maybe I should try this Garafalloy Pro Launch Blue. Looking forward to the rest of your testing! 

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20 hours ago, azstu324 said:

In your case, there's L (not Ladies but Lite flex) 

I'll be completely honest I really wouldn't know where to direct someone who plays softer than Stiff. So I sure hope that question doesn't come up😜

I'll chime in on that subject.  You direct them to...shudder...a ladies flex shaft. 

I play senior flex shafts.  I, too, have been intrigued with the issue at hand and started my experimentation last weekend. 

My best option was to drop down one flex given there was only one flex lower than senior available (yes, I'm an impeccable logician) and coincidentally the Grafalloy Pro Launch has been my driver shaft of choice for several months now.

I ordered a Grafalloy "Supercharged" Pro Launch in L flex which is the lightest offered.  Added an adapter last Thursday when I got back from a trip to and from the east coast, added a grip and took it to the course on Sunday.  Hadn't played in two weeks due to the travel and temperature at tee time was a brisk 38 degrees so I waited until the back nine to "unleash" the experiment. 

Added 10-15 yards in less than optimal conditions.

In anticipation I've got three more shafts headed this way and I'm hopeful that a bit more tinkering will allow me to squeak out even a bit more.

Parenthetically, the traditional Grafalloy Pro Launch Blue is likely to be a better bet than the supposedly "supercharged" version but, for $20, it was worth a try.

Driver head is a PXG 0311 XF Gen 5 by the way.

Ping G430 Max 10.5*

Ping G430 SFT 3 wood and Ping G430 HL 7 wood SR flex

Ping G430 4,5,6,7 hybrids  SR flex

Cleveland Launcher XL Halo 8,9,P,G, SW irons   A Flex

Cleveland Smart Sole S wedge  A Flex

Cobra Nova putter

 

 

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9 hours ago, pbclubdude said:

 

The Graffaloy PLB are on my 3 and 5 woods. They are my attempts to inexpensively replicate the Autoflex. They work great but are not Autoflex. However,it is an amazing shaft and I encourage everyone to pick it up in regular flex if you are used to stiff and give it a try. For around $60 it is inexpensive and very underrated imo. Do not cut the tip. Just butt trim it to 46". The real big difference between the two is the butt end of Autoflex is almost as flexible as the tip end. The Graffaloy is much more conventional with a stiffer butt end, particularly in relation to the tip end. I believe it can tolerate a less smooth change in direction, making it more "universal" in appeal than Autoflex, not to mention the price difference.


you talk about 3 and  5 woods,  did you do the cheap auto flex experiment in the driver?   why  only go down 1 flex not the recommended 2?  Did you do the 45 or 65 gram?  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

 

What I will give Autoflex 100% credit for is cleverly marketing a light weight, light flex shaft in a way that would intrigue the general population to take interest. Whatever their "proprietary" bend profile happens to be, it's a lighter flex, lighter weight L, A, or R frequency cleverly disguised with a X or XX. Sheep in wolf's clothing scenario.

 

Similar to what Callaway did with their flex ratings and partially why there is no standards across the industry.   We say this shaft is some flex based on our unique measurement system.   Players; especially men, have egos that need to be stroked.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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The talk of dropping flex down 1 or 2 flexes is still interesting because how do you know you are actually dropping that much flex compared to what one is currently playing.

No industry standard for flex and one companies stiff flex can easily be another companies regular or another’s x stiff.

Autoflex isn’t a magic shaft and the marketing isn’t much different than others marketing. Xxio has been doing lightweight designs that has worked for various swing speeds.

Imo all this shows that finding a weight and ei profile that gives the golfer a feel they like and doesn’t negatively affect their swing mechanics will produce good results. Same thing a good fitting will do

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Extremely cool test. Immediately began looking at the Graffaloy ProLaunch 45 up here in Canada. I'd be very curious if you experiment with a light grip (e.g. GP Tour 25) to bring the SW back up and see what, if anything, that does. My immediate fear for my own game is the left ball with that lower SW. I play my driver at SW of D6 and found that eliminated left for me. I can definately see myself trying something like this out!

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  Taylormade M2 10.5 deg (@8.5) - Accra Tour Z M4 (future Otto Phlex Grafalloy Pro Launch Blue 44g A flex as a 2nd option)

3 wood - Mizuno 15 deg (@14) ST200 - Tensei Blue X flex

Driving iron - Taylormade GAP2 2 lo (@16) - Accra M4 hybrid shaft (39 inch), 4 Utility - Taylormade GAPR 4 lo (@20.5)

5 iron -  Mp18 MMC Fli Hi - Modus 105x - 7 iron length

Irons - (PW - 6) JPX 900 tour - Modus 105x (6 iron is 7 iron length) 

Wedges (50,55) - Vokey SM7

Wedge (60) Callaway PM Grind        

Putter: Odyssey Arm Lock Double Wide with Superstroke Wrist Lock grip at 37 inch

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59 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The talk of dropping flex down 1 or 2 flexes is still interesting because how do you know you are actually dropping that much flex compared to what one is currently playing.

No industry standard for flex and one companies stiff flex can easily be another companies regular or another’s x stiff.

Autoflex isn’t a magic shaft and the marketing isn’t much different than others marketing. Xxio has been doing lightweight designs that has worked for various swing speeds.

Imo all this shows that finding a weight and ei profile that gives the golfer a feel they like and doesn’t negatively affect their swing mechanics will produce good results. Same thing a good fitting will do

You are correct, but this thread is simply a fun experiment based on claims that are being made via YouTube videos.   Most people here would like to try an autoflex shaft simply because we are tinkerers and love to try golf equipment but many lack the desire to spend that much for a shaft.  This “finding” gives people the opportunity to try the concept of the autoflex at a more affordable price range.  While the values are not standardized it give us something that we as forum reading non industry people that don’t have the equipment to measure ei profiles a way to communicate.  

 

 I personally doubt that most fitters would do this type of experiment during a fitting maybe they should but probably wouldn’t.  This partially goes back to what I referred to about the ego of male golfers.  Even though there are no standards, do you honestly think most 20-40 year old male golfer would purchase a shaft labeled with a senior or lite flex weighing 40 grams even if it gave them the best performance?  We continually read about golfers complaining that they were fit to shafts labeled R or S believing they should be in something labeled X.  
 

this thread ultimately supports everything you repeatedly say, ignore weight and flex designations printed on the shaft and get fit for the equipment that works for you.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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51 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The talk of dropping flex down 1 or 2 flexes is still interesting because how do you know you are actually dropping that much flex compared to what one is currently playing.

No industry standard for flex and one companies stiff flex can easily be another companies regular or another’s x stiff.

Autoflex isn’t a magic shaft and the marketing isn’t much different than others marketing. Xxio has been doing lightweight designs that has worked for various swing speeds.

Imo all this shows that finding a weight and ei profile that gives the golfer a feel they like and doesn’t negatively affect their swing mechanics will produce good results. Same thing a good fitting will do

@RickyBobby_PR I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying here and I believe I've left the door open for interpretation and/or gray area with this project. This is a "big picture" idea here so let's not get lost in small details. It's pretty common knowledge at this point  that there is NO standard across the golf equipment industry.. like at all. That's not even a debatable topic any more. 

Point 1: take 2 shafts from 2 different makers. 1 labeled X flex, the other A flex. remove any flex labels. There will undoubtedly be a noticeable difference between the 2.. regardless of what their individual definition of that respective flex is. A perfect example is the PX Evenflow Riptide 40g A. Compared to my Fuji MotoreX F1 6X, there is undoubtedly a difference in flex and weight. Is it 2 "flex frequencies" different? I don't think so. I was looking for different bend and feel characteristics.. so I moved on and to the GPLB which IMO feels like it could be 2 flex profiles different and is much closer to the profile that I had in mind. That's the gist of what I'm going for here. Like I mentioned, there may be yet another profile that I like even better but for now I'm extremely satisfied with Garafalloy. 

Point 2: unless we each have our own individual shaft frequency machines, the absolute best we have to go on at this point is generalities and personal feeling preferences between shafts. I would say that it's absolutely acceptable to use each company's "stated" flex as a baseline to start this experiment down the tracks and adjust from there based on personal preferences. I just figured I'd lend a hand and take some of the guessing out of it by conducting and documenting my own experiment for others to follow. 

Point 3: you are correct that getting fit is extremely important. BUT.. if I go to a fitter (and I have) and they determine that my SS is 110 MPH (and they have), and I tell them that I like shafts around 65g, unless I specifically say "Autoflex", there's no way that me or the fitter will ever know that a lighter weight and flex profile might better benefit me. On the flip side, if I don't know what weight shaft I like, and the fitter, by conventional wisdom puts me in a 65 or 70g shaft, I would say "that feels good to me" neither of us knew any different. Additionally, if I do say "Autoflex", do you honestly think the fitter will say or even know that there are 10 other less expensive, better performing options? I'll probably get sold an $800 Autoflex at that point. 

Big picture man.. just go along for the ride and work with us here. You might actually enjoy it. 😬

   PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:cobra-small:  F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X
:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
:edel-golf-1:  EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 

MAXFLI  Tour CG

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I personally doubt that most fitters would do this type of experiment during a fitting maybe they should but probably wouldn’t.  This partially goes back to what I referred to about the ego of male golfers.  Even though there are no standards, do you honestly think most 20-40 year old male golfer would purchase a shaft labeled with a senior or lite flex weighing 40 grams even if it gave them the best performance?  We continually read about golfers complaining that they were fit to shafts labeled R or S believing they should be in something labeled X.  

Most fitters lack knowledge and follow a script. The good fitters are going to try different things to see what works. It gets to philosophy of the fitter too. Some thing swing lightest and softest as possible and some think to play heaviest without affecting tempo. Those that want to gain knowledge and experiment will do so with their client similar to what chisag saw in a recent fitting, same as what happened to me in a titleist fitting.

But good fitters are also looking at what the client is doing in their swing, what they are trying to achieve and get them into a weigh and ei profile that reduces the negative impact of their big miss so that when they make thaw swing that produces the big miss the result is more playable.

It why there’s good/great fittings and then everything else. If a fitter isn’t trying different weights to include swingweight, changing grips and flexes it’s not really a fitting. 

Using Rob as an example with his TPI fitting most people with the title of fitter wouldn’t have tried a standard length iron build over something that’s 1/2” or longer due to his height. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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6 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Point 1: take 2 shafts from 2 different makers. 1 labeled X flex, the other A flex. remove any flex labels. There will undoubtedly be a noticeable difference between the 2.. regardless of what their individual definition of that respective flex is. A perfect example is the PX Evenflow Riptide 40g A. Compared to my Fuji MotoreX F1 6X, there is undoubtedly a difference in flex and weight. Is it 2 "flex frequencies" different? I don't think so. I was looking for different bend and feel characteristics.. so I moved on and to the GPLB which IMO feels like it could be 2 flex profiles different and is much closer to the profile that I had in mind. That's the gist of what I'm going for here. Like I mentioned, there may be yet another profile that I like even better but for now I'm extremely satisfied with Garafalloy. 

You are talking stiffness profile aka ei proflie so yes there would be a difference. This is what is important and not the flex labor which is just an arbitrary label. You can take a px evenflow black 6.0 and a hzrdus black 6.0 and there’s going to be a difference even though both are stiff flex from the same manufacturer 

 

8 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Point 2: unless we each have our own individual shaft frequency machines, the absolute best we have to go on at this point is generalities and personal feeling preferences between shafts. I would say that it's absolutely acceptable to use each company's "stated" flex as a baseline to start this experiment down the tracks and adjust from there based on personal preferences. I just figured I'd lend a hand and take some of the guessing out of it by conducting and documenting my own experiment for others to follow. 

Shaft frequencies don’t really do anything other than giving readings two shafts can have the same measurement and be completely different in stiffness 

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/

9 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Point 3: you are correct that getting fit is extremely important. BUT.. if I go to a fitter (and I have) and they determine that my SS is 110 MPH (and they have), and I tell them that I like shafts around 65g, unless I specifically say "Autoflex", there's no way that me or the fitter will ever know that a lighter weight and flex profile might better benefit me. On the flip side, if I don't know what weight shaft I like, and the fitter, by conventional wisdom puts me in a 65 or 70g shaft, I would say "that feels good to me" neither of us knew any different. Additionally, if I do say "Autoflex", do you honestly think the fitter will say or even know that there are 10 other less expensive, better performing options? I'll probably get sold an $800 Autoflex at that point. 

as mentioned above in my reply to cnosil if your fitter ain’t trying different weights and ei profiles or taking feedback about what you are trying to accomplish in your swing, what you want to see on the course, whether you are working on your game and what that entails along with your feedback on each combo you are getting a real fitting. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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