The difficulty of learning golf

[NM01]

14 minutes ago, Nobody123 said:

What are reasonable expectations from golf lessons?

Reasonable expectations are that the instructor identify the issue that will get you playing better faster. What better js and what faster means are going to be different for each person. Also the student has to be reasonable in their expectations that they aren’t going to start playing great golf right away and that they will have to work on the samething over and over for far longer than they realize. Justin rose has been working on the samething for 11 years before it finally clicked.

Reasonable expectations are the instructor can communicate properly and give the student a plan to work on the issue identified and a time frame to come back for the next lesson.

18 minutes ago, Nobody123 said:

Was my experience typical?

Probably more than should be but sometimes it’s on the student and now they come off and some on the instructor and how good they are at communicating and teaching. 

[msqtech2]

The challenge of learning golf is a topic that resonates with many, and I've come across discussions where individuals tend to switch between different teachers or methods. This behavior might be influenced by the prevalence of social media. It raises the question of what a golf teacher could do to retain students and prevent them from constantly seeking new methods. Would immediate improvement in ball flight, increased distance, or a more polished appearance on camera be the key? In your perspective, what factor would be most crucial? For you, prioritizing improved ball striking and golf scores over a cinematic look on camera seems significant. Everyone has their unique goals in the journey of learning golf.

[cnosil]

6 hours ago, msqtech2 said:

 I've come across discussions where individuals tend to switch between different teachers or methods. This behavior might be influenced by the prevalence of social media. It raises the question of what a golf teacher could do to retain students and prevent them from constantly seeking new methods. 

IMO, the problem isn’t the teacher but the student.   Until the student recognizes that it takes time to get the desired outcome they will continue to chase the quick fix.   This has been an ongoing dilemma since golf magazines were published with and touted on their covers that you could fix your slice in 5 minutes.   Social media and YouTube just continue the trend. 

[DaveP043]

14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Social media and YouTube just continue the trend. 

They make it worse, in my opinion.  How many people have you seen saying "I'm following the (put your favorite online instructor here) system" without having any idea of that guy is promoting things that will help that specific player, without knowing if he's actually following the instructor's guidance, just following that guy.  

[chisag]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

IMO, the problem isn’t the teacher but the student.   Until the student recognizes that it takes time to get the desired outcome they will continue to chase the quick fix.   This has been an ongoing dilemma since golf magazines were published with and touted on their covers that you could fix your slice in 5 minutes.   Social media and YouTube just continue the trend. 

 

... I would just add this. It is a synergy. Great coaches try and fit their schemes to the players they have. Bad coaches try and fit their players to a scheme they have. Golf instruction can be very similar. If I have 3 golfers with varying ability and equally important varying time constraints and work ethics, the game plan will be different for all of them. A businessman in his 50's looking to get better at golf so he can play with clients and not be embarrassed that at best will play once a week and practice once a week is radically different then someone looking to be the best they can be and have unlimited time to practice and are either on the course or at the range 5-7 days a week. Lessons and the approach will reflect all of that. 

[cksurfdude]

7 hours ago, chisag said:

Great coaches try and fit their schemes to the players they have. Bad coaches try and fit their players to a scheme they have.

Awesome.

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I would just add this. It is a synergy. Great coaches try and fit their schemes to the players they have. Bad coaches try and fit their players to a scheme they have. Golf instruction can be very similar. If I have 3 golfers with varying ability and equally important varying time constraints and work ethics, the game plan will be different for all of them. 

There are exceptions and successful coaches that teach a method.

https://www.instagram.com/andreaskaligolf/?hl=en

As you mentioned, to do this there has to be a level of commitment from the player.  

[chisag]

45 minutes ago, cnosil said:

There are exceptions and successful coaches that teach a method.

https://www.instagram.com/andreaskaligolf/?hl=en

As you mentioned, to do this there has to be a level of commitment from the player.  

 

... Sure. But the system has to fit your natural swing tendencies. I am a big fan of David Lee and Gravity Golf so I have no problems with a system instructor. But I tend to think even then more than a few will pick and choose what parts of the system work for them. 

[Jmikecpa]

My two cents. I learned to play naturally and my only instruction growing up was the lesson in the back of golf digest. Over the years I had people give me simple tips but that was it.  I was a plus handicap when I went to college and walked onto a D1 program as the number three man on what I built myself. I did not have a formal lesson until I was in my 40’s and had two and was done with lessons. To this day I have one person that can look at my swing and put it back together for me and that is done via video. I may be abnormal but to give a cliche “sometimes you just need to be an athlete” and do what is natural. If Ledbetter saw my swing he would puke. I hit balls in front of Butch Harmon at his school in Vegas at Rio after I played. His first question was how what did I shoot and when the answer was 66 he said he would not change a damn thing. What I have works and don’t change it. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Jmikecpa

[Goober]

It’s all about match ups.And I would also add if a teacher or top player says “this is what you should feel”…run don’t walK away.Feels are never real.Heck; I can have  a new feeling every other day at times.But yet look the same 

[Nicklas_Mav]

Honestly, I think the biggest factor is seeing tangible improvement in ball striking and lower scores. Immediate results can be motivating, but it's that consistent progress that keeps me hooked. Looking good on camera is nice, but it's the performance on the course that truly matters to me.

[cksurfdude]

3 hours ago, Nicklas_Mav said:

Honestly, I think the biggest factor is seeing tangible improvement in ball striking and lower scores.

.. And being very, very, very very extremely patient. 

Each person has a different level of athletic ability and a different level of ability to learn something new - eg some are more natural athletes and can learn faster, while some of us regular people can take *years* to see real improvement. 

This game is hard! .. And it took me a few years to internalize that - and then I started making better progress....

[Donn lost in San Diego]

ROTATE AND FINISH       There are millions of golfers.  Nobody knows what most of us do.  We are only aware of the jumpers, and the tiny speck percentage who are on-line, compared to the vast number who are not online, who don't jump from gim to mick and back to gim again.

I spent lots of downtime reading, learned a little, when I could not play.  Then one day about 6 yrs ago, a TOUR pro offered this advice in  the monthly TOUR pro player advice column in a magazine.  He said:  "2 words:  Rotate and finish." Perfect.

In the world of high end home music systems the disease is called "audiophilia nervosa".  The stuff I loved and bought last year must be bad now because the same magazine rated a new product better.

[chisag]

27 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

"2 words:  Rotate and finish." Perfect.

Nobody knows what most of us do. 

 

... That includes ourselves. Exactly why a lawyer representing themselves have a fool for a client. The biggest problem with reading and watching tips is, we are never doing what we think we are doing. This is why Pro's have their own instructors because things start to creep into their swing and they don't see it or feel it on their own. Tell 10 golfers to take a 1/2 swing and everyone will look different but most will be swinging waaaaaay past 1/2 but will tell you they accomplished their goal. A few may say they didn't quite get too 1/2 when they were 3/4 or more. The amount of times I had students look at me after telling them they were not doing what they thought they were doing and giving me that quizzical expression saying "Really?!?" was standard stuff. 

... That is just the tip of the iceberg. Get into the intricacies of the swing and it really gets complicated. A good golf swing is a connected sequence using all parts of the body in sync. Advice I hear on line about connecting your arms to your body during the swing can very easily be overdone with all concentration on a tense connection creating both physical and mental tension while completely losing what the club is doing. There is just so much instruction out there that is actually sound advice but does way more harm than good if you don't have someone with knowledge guiding you through it. 

... Sounds like you found something that is working for you   and Rotate and Finish is fine, unless you are over rotating, under rotating, rotating too early or too late or just focusing more on rotation than what the rest of your body or what the club is doing. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

On 7/27/2024 at 4:51 PM, chisag said:

 

... That includes ourselves. Exactly why a lawyer representing themselves have a fool for a client. The biggest problem with reading and watching tips is, we are never doing what we think we are doing. This is why Pro's have their own instructors because things start to creep into their swing and they don't see it or feel it on their own. Tell 10 golfers to take a 1/2 swing and everyone will look different but most will be swinging waaaaaay past 1/2 but will tell you they accomplished their goal. A few may say they didn't quite get too 1/2 when they were 3/4 or more. The amount of times I had students look at me after telling them they were not doing what they thought they were doing and giving me that quizzical expression saying "Really?!?" was standard stuff. 

... That is just the tip of the iceberg. Get into the intricacies of the swing and it really gets complicated. A good golf swing is a connected sequence using all parts of the body in sync. Advice I hear on line about connecting your arms to your body during the swing can very easily be overdone with all concentration on a tense connection creating both physical and mental tension while completely losing what the club is doing. There is just so much instruction out there that is actually sound advice but does way more harm than good if you don't have someone with knowledge guiding you through it. 

... Sounds like you found something that is working for you   and Rotate and Finish is fine, unless you are over rotating, under rotating, rotating too early or too late or just focusing more on rotation than what the rest of your body or what the club is doing. 

Boy you know how to pour water all over . . . .  or beat a horse til it's  . . .   whatever.    Anyway, "Rotate and finish" is free, nobody can sell it on an infomercial.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Boy you know how to pour water all over . . . .  or beat a horse til it's  . . .   whatever.    Anyway, "Rotate and finish" is free, nobody can sell it on an infomercial.

 

... LOL not my intention at all Donn. Like I said I am happy you found something that works for you. But this thread is about the difficulties of learning golf and I have to agree, it is very difficult. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

10 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... LOL not my intention at all Donn. Like I said I am happy you found something that works for you. But this thread is about the difficulties of learning golf and I have to agree, it is very difficult. 

  So what does Chisag stand for?  Chicago - Saginaw?  But you are in Feenix?

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

  So what does Chisag stand for?  Chicago - Saginaw?  But you are in Feenix?

 

... CHIcago Screen Actors Guild. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

18 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... CHIcago Screen Actors Guild. 

You are a year older than me and you are a SCRATCH?  Holy broad shoulders!

[bens197]

If you’re looking to get better, you have to see first hand what you’re working on.  You need a basis for comparison besides score.  
 

I did not have that advantage growing up.

I began playing golf 36 years ago and in that time I’m proud of what I accomplished. I did not grow up in a wealthy family and started working at age 14 exclusively at golf clubs. From local public & county courses to Major Championship venue Oak Hill, I took advantage of the perks to help refine my game. 

I was able to walk onto a D2 golf team, played regularly all four years and finished T11 my senior year in Regionals. 

Maybe not the most naturally gifted golfer however I worked hard.  If I had some regular instruction, I could have improved. 

Here’s the difference maker for me. It wasn’t until last year that I bought a GPod to video my swing.  I could now see what I needed to work on and it’s helped me more than the first, single lesson I took two years ago.

Go to a range, record your swing down the line and work on your path & plane. The best way to get a solid impact position is to start with shorter irons and hit some shots inside 100 yards.  Team this up with learning a solid stance with good balance and you *should* see improvement. 

If you’re close and looking to improve, purposeful practice without focusing on dozens of swing thoughts should yield steady growth.