Weekly MGS Forum Survey

[revkev]

Watching the LPGA proves that distance is not important. I can out drive every one of them. But they'll beat me by 20 strokes every time.

Brittany, Wie, Thompson and some others are dog gone long, longer than some of the sho guys on tour. Brittany had a season where she averaged just a tic under 280 off the tee.

 

Regardless the question wasn't who would you beat but rather which would you prefer for yourself. I guarantee any LPGA played would take the 300 the way Bones posed the question. What would make this more fun would be to put a percentage of the time that the "rough" would mean in the trees, water, fairway bunker or OB, that's where course management comes in. Better would be the more realistic choices of 230 or 270.

 

My own stats combined with the Brodie book have convinced me to be much more aggressive off the tee unless I'm bringing penalty into play. Snedekker closed the deal hitting driver last week where everyone else was laying up.

[HighFade]

Sorry. To properly answer the question, I would take the shorter fairway shot every time.

[revkev]

Sorry. To properly answer the question, I would take the shorter fairway shot every time.

I can respect that, not the way I would go but your game may play better that way which is what makes golf fun.

[Hula Rock]

Watching the LPGA proves that distance is not important. I can out drive every one of them. But they'll beat me by 20 strokes every time.

 

 

PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP >>>>>>>

[mr_divots]

Watching the LPGA proves that distance is not important. I can out drive every one of them. But they'll beat me by 20 strokes every time.

Mmmm....the longer hitters are often the top players. To test the top players on that tour, they'd need to lengthen the courses from where they play them. The course length (or lack thereof) keeps half the field relevant on the LPGA. The LPGA doesn't place priority on distance in course setups, but the longest players are often near the top. It's that way on every tour. Always has been.

[JBones]

PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP >>>>>>>

 

 

For the 6200yd course.  

 

I would put money on any LPGA player over me on a sub 7000yd course, any time.  You put me and Lydia Ko on the same tees at 7600yds and I will play her for money.  I may get my butt whooped, but I'd still play her for money at that distance.  She would struggle to get on the 490yd par 4s, which most of the time I'm hitting driver-8i.

[mr_divots]

For the 6200yd course.  

 

I would put money on any LPGA player over me on a sub 7000yd course, any time.  You put me and Lydia Ko on the same tees at 7600yds and I will play her for money.  I may get my butt whooped, but I'd still play her for money at that distance.  She would struggle to get on the 490yd par 4s, which most of the time I'm hitting driver-8i.

She'd eat you alive at a 3.5 handi. Sorry.

[Kenny B]

I have been reading this thread with interest, but haven't jumped in because I don't fit the parameters for the discussion.  It's hard to separate the "two me's".

 

I think the poll is written for people that CAN hit the ball 300 yards, and whether or not you would choose to do so, or club down to 250 to be assured of hitting the fairway.  That's not ME.  (BTW, if you saw the playoff for the India Open yesterday, neither player had a driver in the bag, and neither player hit the fairway so that's no guarantee anyway.)  

 

IF i could hit the ball 300 yards and assuming my current driver shot pattern, then missing the fairway in the rough would not be a major issue because I would have the SS and ball flight with a short iron to get it out of the rough onto the green (like Tiger 15 years ago).  Since the poll did not mention anything but rough, then I would choose the bomb-n-gouge every time on both courses.

 

However, since that is not ME and I can't hit the ball 300, the question is moot.  I will always take the fairway no matter what the distance, and probably have a layup!

[HighFade]

But even a journeyman tour players' short game would make up the difference every time. The chasm between mortals like us and a scratch player is pretty big. Then there's the mini tour player, then the journeyman tour player, then the top player in the world. Chasms.....

[HighFade]

Bones has a good point tho. He can easily drive it in the 330 range. Ko was driving it around 250. He's now hitting wedge where she's hitting a hybrid at best. Definitely a big advantage, but I'd still put my money on the short game of a tour player.

[Hula Rock]

For the 6200yd course.  

 

I would put money on any LPGA player over me on a sub 7000yd course, any time.  You put me and Lydia Ko on the same tees at 7600yds and I will play her for money.  I may get my butt whooped, but I'd still play her for money at that distance.  She would struggle to get on the 490yd par 4s, which most of the time I'm hitting driver-8i.

 

 

Don't quit your day job........

[JBones]

Michelle Wie, at the peak of her career, and an easy 50-60yds longer than Ko, managed 5 birdies in 4 rounds when playing with the guys.  I'm not saying that I wouldn't get beat, but I would still play for money at that distance.

[HighFade]

Michelle Wie, at the peak of her career, and an easy 50-60yds longer than Ko, managed 5 birdies in 4 rounds when playing with the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't get beat, but I would still play for money at that distance.

I'd love to see that match!

[JBones]

I'd love to see that match!

 

It'll be put on hold until after our rematch.

[HighFade]

We've hijacked this thread, so I just voted. 250 in the fairway for both courses. Heck, I'd play it from 240 in the fairway.

[HighFade]

It'll be put on hold until after our rematch.

Last year is a perfect example - when we played last year he was easily 300 in the rough (most of the time). I was at best 260-270 in the fairway (most of the time). Beat him by 1. Push me back to 250, and I think he wins....

[JBones]

Last year is a perfect example - when we played last year he was easily 300 in the rough (most of the time). I was at best 260-270 in the fairway (most of the time). Beat him by 1. Push me back to 250, and I think he wins....

Funny that you mention that......I made birdie on the three fairways that I hit. I blame it on the beer though, not hitting it into the rough.

[revkev]

I'm weighing in here - I'll take Lydia over Bones at any distance - sorry buddy - this goes back to the tees thing - You could figure our her handicap which will be in the plus 5 range - it will adjust a bit moving back from the 6,700 that she normally plays from or yours will adjust down a bit if you move up - same result - you get drilled.  Why?

 

1.  This won't be the hypothetical 300 in the rough 250 in the fairway - way more of your 300's will be in trouble than her 250's. 

 

2.  Her superior short game will allow her to manage her game and get up and down often on those holes that she can't reach in regulation. 

 

3.  More than likely she is able to hit longer clubs more accurately and consistently than you are able to hit shorter clubs.  It could be that she is more accurate with a hybrid than you are with an 8 iron and she is a good bit more consistent.

 

I play often with a guy who has made it to match play in two US Ams.  He would not be close to Lydia's class and he would readily admit it.  He's not in full game shape so he's not a scratch at this time, generally he's a 1 or a 2.  You and I have the same handicap index.  I've beaten Scott all of once and quite frankly he had a lot more to drink than I did on that day.  On the front 9 when he was still relatively sober he was 1 under to my even.  I got him because he skulled a bunker shot OB on 15. 

 

Could a fluke occur?  Of course.  Would you have a better chance to beat her at the longer distance?  I don't know - your handicaps and relative playing abilities will adjust based upon where you are playing from. 

 

My money is on Lydia - people who play the game for a living are good at it and the ladies on tour are much longer than you might expect when you see them up close or if you're fortunate play with them.

[Zeasy]

It would be closer than you would expect in your everyday Pro vs Am match. Bones may pull a Rocky and tie it up. The key is how the course is set up. The LPGA works overboard on making the conditions as firm in the fairways and as soft on the greens as possible to create the impression of length and short game. We've already seen LPGA stars vs. average pros and it wasn't pretty. I'm saying Bones finishes within 3 strokes of her at worst, if both bring their A games. 

[Blade]

I have been reading this thread with interest, but haven't jumped in because I don't fit the parameters for the discussion. It's hard to separate the "two me's".

 

I think the poll is written for people that CAN hit the ball 300 yards, and whether or not you would choose to do so, or club down to 250 to be assured of hitting the fairway. That's not ME. (BTW, if you saw the playoff for the India Open yesterday, neither player had a driver in the bag, and neither player hit the fairway so that's no guarantee anyway.)

 

IF i could hit the ball 300 yards and assuming my current driver shot pattern, then missing the fairway in the rough would not be a major issue because I would have the SS and ball flight with a short iron to get it out of the rough onto the green (like Tiger 15 years ago). Since the poll did not mention anything but rough, then I would choose the bomb-n-gouge every time on both courses.

 

However, since that is not ME and I can't hit the ball 300, the question is moot. I will always take the fairway no matter what the distance, and probably have a layup!

This wasn't a question about clubbing down to 250. It was simply which position would you prefer to hit the next shot from.

[revkev]

@ Zeasy, which would mean that my money would still be on Lydia.

 

The average every day pro ain't so bad btw as High Fade has already pointed out.  There is a gap, there's a gap between someone with a handicap and a scratch, there's a gap between a mini-tour guy and a scratch, there's a gap between a web.tour guy and a PGA//European tour player guy and then there is a gap within that final little subset between those who win once and those who are in contention and win repeatedly.

 

So if we are in the 1-5 handicap range we have a long hill to climb regardless of what type of pro we are trying to compete with.  It wasn't all ugly the few times that LPGA players have gone out on tour either -

 

I would think that many of them are able to compete at the mini-tour level in our analogy above.  Maybe I'm biased because I get to see an LPGA player hit shots somewhat regularly - she is way better than you would think and she's not in the very top echelon.  But that part comes when you see her work on her short game (which is rarely)

[revkev]

Which would mean that my money would still be on Lydia.

 

Okay that's a pretty cool double post - don't know how I pulled this one off -sorry.

[Hula Rock]

Which would mean that my money would still be on Lydia.

 

There is a reason why they are getting paid to play.  THEY ARE THAT GOOD, no matter what the distance.  

[Kenny B]

This wasn't a question about clubbing down to 250. It was simply which position would you prefer to hit the next shot from.

 

I understand that.  I can't fathom a 300 yard drive, but even if I did I probably couldn't get it out of the rough onto the green with my swing, even if it is shorter.  IF I had the swing to hit it 300, then I would want the shorter shot in the rough, but since I know I can't get it out of the rough and onto the green a high percentage of the time, then I have to take the long club from the fairway.

[JBones]

@ Zeasy, which would mean that my money would still be on Lydia.

 

The average every day pro ain't so bad btw as High Fade has already pointed out.  There is a gap, there's a gap between someone with a handicap and a scratch, there's a gap between a mini-tour guy and a scratch, there's a gap between a web.tour guy and a PGA//European tour player guy and then there is a gap within that final little subset between those who win once and those who are in contention and win repeatedly.

 

So if we are in the 1-5 handicap range we have a long hill to climb regardless of what type of pro we are trying to compete with.  It wasn't all ugly the few times that LPGA players have gone out on tour either -

 

I would think that many of them are able to compete at the mini-tour level in our analogy above.  Maybe I'm biased because I get to see an LPGA player hit shots somewhat regularly - she is way better than you would think and she's not in the very top echelon.  But that part comes when you see her work on her short game (which is rarely)

 

While I agree that that between a Tour player (either PGA or Web) there is a vast difference between them and a scratch player, I'm going to say that gap is even greater between a PGA player and LPGA player.  My cousin is a +3 on one of the toughest courses I have ever played (US Open conditions year round), he is a full scholarship NCAA D1 player, All Conference, and is currently ranked 5th in the conference even after a rough half of the season.  There are 6 shots between our handicaps; we have played straight up twice in the last 6 months, once I beat him (both of us under par) and once he beat me by finishing birdie-birdie to shoot -2 to my even par.  That tells me, that gap isn't as wide as you think it is.  With that being said, I have the potential to go out and shoot 90 with 5 OB tee shots on a horribly off day and he is still going to be under 76 on a horribly off day.  Comparing the two A games though, I don't think there is a gap at all.

 

Now again, I'm in no way saying that I could beat Lydia Ko, so lets just squash that.  I'm simply saying that I believe that at 7600yds, even with me being in the rough, I can hang with her. As far as her hybrid being more accurate than my 8i.......if you consider her hybrid that is dead at the pin, but 20yds short more accurate than my 8i that leaves me a 30' birdie putt, I'm going to disagree with that as well.  Now, if you had said her 8i over my 3/4 SW, I would completely agree with you.

[revkev]

I wish we could set this match up - this would be fun!  Does someone have an LPGA pipeline - what about Tony that posts for the LPGA - can't we make this happen when the tour is around Southern Indiana?  How about Michelle Wie vs. Bones if Lydia won't bite.

 

I have the perfect course - Purgatory just north of Indiana - it stretches to a cool 7,600 from the tips.

 

Maybe we could at least get Lydia hitting hybrid to the same green as Bones is hitting 8 iron, although I doubt there's that much distance club wise - 10 shots. 

[Zeasy]

I'm sorry, there is a difference in length, no matter what the skill level. There's a common misconception that a "long hitter" is going to be inaccurate. That just isn't always the case. Look at Rory. He is long and accurate. When his game is on (because even the pros are off and on) he is very hard to beat. She's going to miss a lot of greens at that length (especially if it is a normal course and not a suped up tour course) and is going to make bogeys because of that. I've seen bones play and if both are on their A games, he has a legit chance to beat them at that length. Because no matter what you think, golf gets much harder the further you move back, especially if your game depends on short game. 

[mr_divots]

We don't get to choose our "A game" days. Yes, that is why the pro will beat you. The percentage of time they show up ready to put down a good score is why they're on the T.V. and we're watching.

[Kenny B]

We don't get to choose our "A game" days. Yes, that is why the pro will beat you. The percentage of time they show up ready to put down a good score is why they're on the T.V. and we're watching.

 

 

"I didn't have my A game today; let's try again tomorrow."

[Zeasy]

We don't get to choose our "A game" days. Yes, that is why the pro will beat you. The percentage of time they show up ready to put down a good score is why they're on the T.V. and we're watching.

 

Just comparing A game to A game.  Even with an A+ game, it's going to be pretty difficult for anyone to compete at 7500 yards with a 230 to 250 drive. That's a lot of missed greens. 

 

Big big big difference in little pitch and putt courses and 7500 yards.