Bag gap, 4 hybrid??

[Grip it and rip it]

Evening all, my bag currently looks like this,

 Driver 9 G430 LST

FW 5 wood 18 +-1.5 G430 Max 

Driving Iron U505 20

5 iron 25 T200

6 iron 28 T200

 7 iron 32 T150

8 iron 36 T150

 9 iron 40 T150

 Pw  44 T150

 W1 48 T150

 W2 54 SM9

 W3 58 SM9

I’m really feeling the need for a hybrid in between my U505 and the 5i the gap is currently 218yd ish to 183/188 ish with the 5 iron. Just feel like I need a 200 yard club as I don’t like ‘taking some off’ the u505 or trying to take the skin off the 5iron

im around 97-100 mph club head speed.

any thoughts on a g430 4 hybrid at 22 degrees??

TIA

 

[Fred Mitchell]

3 hours ago, Grip it and rip it said:

Evening all, my bag currently looks like this,

 Driver 9 G430 LST

FW 5 wood 18 +-1.5 G430 Max 

Driving Iron U505 20

5 iron 25 T200

6 iron 28 T200

 7 iron 32 T150

8 iron 36 T150

 9 iron 40 T150

 Pw  44 T150

 W1 48 T150

 W2 54 SM9

 W3 58 SM9

I’m really feeling the need for a hybrid in between my U505 and the 5i the gap is currently 218yd ish to 183/188 ish with the 5 iron. Just feel like I need a 200 yard club as I don’t like ‘taking some off’ the u505 or trying to take the skin off the 5iron

im around 97-100 mph club head speed.

any thoughts on a g430 4 hybrid at 22 degrees??

TIA

 

As a failure to maintain consistency with a hybrid I have a 5 utility iron and a 7 wood as I have room for them and choose which based on the shot The Taylormade DHY 5 utility is like the energizer bunny on hard ground but the added carry with the 7woods is nice on different course conditions.

 

[Josh Parker]

4 hybrid would be good to fill the gap. Ping makes some good ones.

[bellken]

With Titleist irons, you could consider getting fit for a Titleist hybrid, where they would help you get your distance dialed in.

The Ping G430 22 hybrid could be fine, too, but, you would need to experiment a bit, as it could come close to your driving iron. You might need the 26, and, lower the loft. Definitely, try before you buy. 

[ParFore74x]

That’s the same size of gap that I needed to fill and also went with a 4 hybrid in the 21° Titleist. Use it quite often and love it. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by ParFore74x

[hckymeyer]

Ping makes great hybrids and the 4 would probably be a good option.

I would recommend if you are able to go to a place you could try multiple clubs.  In that slot for options you probably would have a 4 or 5 hybrid, maybe 7 or 9 wood, or even the set matching 4 iron.  Each one is going to have different feel and ball flight though.  So kind of depends how consistent you are with each type of club and how you want to play shots at that distance. 

YMMV but in general the 7w type of club is going to go higher with a steeper decent angle, 4i would be a lower more penetrating flight with a shallower decent angle, typically hybrid will be in the middle.

[chisag]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:55 AM, Grip it and rip it said:

im around 97-100 mph club head speed.

any thoughts on a g430 4 hybrid at 22 degrees??

 

... My swing speed is a hair slower with a smooth transition and I have a G430 22* 4 hybrid arriving tomorrow the 26th. This has been a revolving spot in my bag and I have found quite a few clubs I like, but none I really love. I have never played a ping hybrid and I am hoping the G430 produces a romance that lasts and I'll report back after playin' it a few rounds. 

[funkyjudge]

On 12/24/2023 at 1:55 PM, Grip it and rip it said:

Evening all, my bag currently looks like this,

 Driver 9 G430 LST

FW 5 wood 18 +-1.5 G430 Max 

Driving Iron U505 20

5 iron 25 T200

6 iron 28 T200

 7 iron 32 T150

8 iron 36 T150

 9 iron 40 T150

 Pw  44 T150

 W1 48 T150

 W2 54 SM9

 W3 58 SM9

I’m really feeling the need for a hybrid in between my U505 and the 5i the gap is currently 218yd ish to 183/188 ish with the 5 iron. Just feel like I need a 200 yard club as I don’t like ‘taking some off’ the u505 or trying to take the skin off the 5iron

im around 97-100 mph club head speed.

any thoughts on a g430 4 hybrid at 22 degrees??

TIA

 

To fill all of the yardage gaps between my driver and 5-iron, I play the following:

  - 16.5* 4-wood (often adjusted to 15.75*)

  - 18* Paradym X hybrid

  - 21* Sub 70 939X hybrid 

I find the 21* Sub 70 #4 hybrid to be one of the most valuable (and versatile) clubs in my bag. I have had it for almost 3 years, and it is quite well-worn, but every time I try to replace it (even with a new 21* Sub 70 949X hybrid, which is their replacement for the 939X model),  that ratty-looking 939X hybrid wins the battle. I don’t know what I will do if I ever damage the club to the point where it is unusable, or break the shaft, because the clubhead and the Project X Black hybrid shaft are both now out of production.

[Shapotomous]

33 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

To fill all of the yardage gaps between my driver and 5-iron, I play the following:

  - 16.5* 4-wood (often adjusted to 15.75*)

  - 18* Paradym X hybrid

  - 21* Sub 70 939X hybrid 

I find the 21* Sub 70 #4 hybrid to be one of the most valuable (and versatile) clubs in my bag. I have had it for almost 3 years, and it is quite well-worn, but every time I try to replace it (even with a new 21* Sub 70 949X hybrid, which is their replacement for the 939X model),  that ratty-looking 939X hybrid wins the battle. I don’t know what I will do if I ever damage the club to the point where it is unusable, or break the shaft, because the clubhead and the Project X Black hybrid shaft are both now out of production.

I am looking to fill a spot for a 205 yard club this winter.  If you dont mind....what yardages are you hitting those and what is your driver swing speed? 

It may help me compare where I am at with lofts and yardages and what I might try to experiment with this winter.  My driver ss is about 98 and i had been playing an 18* 2h about 200 yards from the fairway,  tee shots about 5 yards longer.  Late this season the yardage had dropped to about 190 which is where my 4i or 23* 4h plays.  There may be something wrong with that club because other clubs around it are still within their yardage slots.

[funkyjudge]

37 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

I am looking to fill a spot for a 205 yard club this winter.  If you dont mind....what yardages are you hitting those and what is your driver swing speed? 

It may help me compare where I am at with lofts and yardages and what I might try to experiment with this winter.  My driver ss is about 98 and i had been playing an 18* 2h about 200 yards from the fairway,  tee shots about 5 yards longer.  Late this season the yardage had dropped to about 190 which is where my 4i or 23* 4h plays.  There may be something wrong with that club because other clubs around it are still within their yardage slots.

Your driver clubhead speed is 1 to 4 MPH higher than mine (I’m at 94 to 97 MPH), and I top out at about 90 MPH with my hybrids, with 88-89 MPH being more common with those clubs. 

My AVERAGE carry distances with the clubs between the driver and 5-iron are:

  - 4-wood = about 230 yards (240 MAX.)

  - 18* hybrid = about 215-220 yards*

  - 21* hybrid = about 200-205 yards*

     * I occasionally hit 215-220 yard bombs   
        with the 21* hybrid, and actually hit one      
        shot close to 250 yards off the turf about                
        a week after I got the 18* Paradym X    
        hybrid, but these are certainly not the  
        norm for me with these clubs.  
     
These are warmer weather distances; the cold weather and multiple layers that I have to wear for winter golf knock at least 10% off of these distances.

Edited December 26, 2023 by funkyjudge

[funkyjudge]

41 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

I am looking to fill a spot for a 205 yard club this winter.  If you dont mind....what yardages are you hitting those and what is your driver swing speed? 

It may help me compare where I am at with lofts and yardages and what I might try to experiment with this winter.  My driver ss is about 98 and i had been playing an 18* 2h about 200 yards from the fairway,  tee shots about 5 yards longer.  Late this season the yardage had dropped to about 190 which is where my 4i or 23* 4h plays.  There may be something wrong with that club because other clubs around it are still within their yardage slots.

By the way, with a 98 MPH driver clubhead speed, I suspect that you get close to 250 yards of carry with your driver; is that correct?

[Shapotomous]

52 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

By the way, with a 98 MPH driver clubhead speed, I suspect that you get close to 250 yards of carry with your driver; is that correct?

Thanks for the yardage info.  I am leaning toward the idea there is something wrong with the club, maybe a tiny crack.  It is a hybrid I put together back in the late 90's so I got my moneys worth from it.

Not quite 250.  Trackman data indicated an average of 241 carry with 144 ball speed, spin rate of 2350, dyn loft of 15.6*, launch angle of 15.1,  and height of 95.  The 241 yards is in line with what i see on the course.  I may be able to get more carry yardage with a shaft with more flex but I like the tight pattern i get with an S or X flex.

[funkyjudge]

34 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Thanks for the yardage info.  I am leaning toward the idea there is something wrong with the club, maybe a tiny crack.  It is a hybrid I put together back in the late 90's so I got my moneys worth from it.

Not quite 250.  Trackman data indicated an average of 241 carry with 144 ball speed, spin rate of 2350, dyn loft of 15.6*, launch angle of 15.1,  and height of 95.  The 241 yards is in line with what i see on the course.  I may be able to get more carry yardage with a shaft with more flex but I like the tight pattern i get with an S or X flex.

I think that you might be able to squeeze a few more yards (but not a lot) out of your driver, if you are generating 98 MPH with the club. That 241 yard carry with the driver is almost exactly what I get while generating a couple MPH less in clubhead speed. However, I launch the ball a couple degrees higher than you (about 17 degrees vs. your 15.1*), and I try to make contact slightly above the center of the face. When I do this, I can get my backspin down a couple hundred RPM lower than you are generating (just a bit above 2,000 to maybe 2,150). If I do this, I get a smash factor very close to 1.50 (maybe 1.46 to 1.48 on less-than-perfect hits). Of course, when I am more than a little bit off, spin goes up, smash factor goes down, and I am looking at 225-230 yards of carry. Luckily, this doesn’t happen too much.

BTW, At age 74, I still have stiff shafts in all of my clubs, although the iron shafts that are marked “S” are about a half flex soft (but they only have 2.0* of torque). My driver, fairway, and hybrid shafts are all stiff-tip, low torque, low to low/mid spin and pretty low launch shafts, which has enabled me to “loft up” a bit, especially with the driver, and to switch from 13.5 to 14* 3-woods to 15.75 to 17.25* 4-woods.

[GolfSpy_APH]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:55 PM, Grip it and rip it said:

Evening all, my bag currently looks like this,

 Driver 9 G430 LST

FW 5 wood 18 +-1.5 G430 Max 

Driving Iron U505 20

5 iron 25 T200

6 iron 28 T200

 7 iron 32 T150

8 iron 36 T150

 9 iron 40 T150

 Pw  44 T150

 W1 48 T150

 W2 54 SM9

 W3 58 SM9

I’m really feeling the need for a hybrid in between my U505 and the 5i the gap is currently 218yd ish to 183/188 ish with the 5 iron. Just feel like I need a 200 yard club as I don’t like ‘taking some off’ the u505 or trying to take the skin off the 5iron

im around 97-100 mph club head speed.

any thoughts on a g430 4 hybrid at 22 degrees??

TIA

 

Defnitely heard good things about the G430 hybrids. Can't say it would be a bad shout to check it out and try one!

[Randy C]

Had a similar predicament last year - gap between my Callaway Razer 5 iron and Adam's hybrid.   Added a Ping 425 7 wood (metal) and filled it perfectly.   My Garmin analytics indicate the hybrid and the 425 have about the same distance (185 yds), but the 7 wood has a much higher trajectory, which sits down immediately.   Also is consistency more accurate, and use it often when I have to have one in the short grass and don't mind sacrificing distance from a driver  or 3 wood.

[Clubs by Buzz]

Depending on the course, I choose from 3W, 4W, 7W, 3H to add to 4&5H, 6-SW.  Mostly end up with 4 and 7 wood.  My 7 wood is cut to 5W length. 4 is same length as 3 wood. 

[Jim Shaw]

On 12/24/2023 at 10:55 AM, Grip it and rip it said:

Evening all, my bag currently looks like this,

 Driver 9 G430 LST

FW 5 wood 18 +-1.5 G430 Max 

Driving Iron U505 20

5 iron 25 T200

6 iron 28 T200

 7 iron 32 T150

8 iron 36 T150

 9 iron 40 T150

 Pw  44 T150

 W1 48 T150

 W2 54 SM9

 W3 58 SM9

I’m really feeling the need for a hybrid in between my U505 and the 5i the gap is currently 218yd ish to 183/188 ish with the 5 iron. Just feel like I need a 200 yard club as I don’t like ‘taking some off’ the u505 or trying to take the skin off the 5iron

im around 97-100 mph club head speed.

any thoughts on a g430 4 hybrid at 22 degrees??

TIA

 

i was fitted for a G430 22 and a G430 19, both gap perfectly for my 4 and 3 iron and I would highly recommend them, I am away from my clubs for a few days but when I get back home I will post which shafts I have in them. I hit my best shot of the year with the 19 degree at the nationals this past year, just like "cutting butter" lol.. take a swing at them anyway I don't think you would be disappointed.

[Jim Shaw]

17 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... My swing speed is a hair slower with a smooth transition and I have a G430 22* 4 hybrid arriving tomorrow the 26th. This has been a revolving spot in my bag and I have found quite a few clubs I like, but none I really love. I have never played a ping hybrid and I am hoping the G430 produces a romance that lasts and I'll report back after playin' it a few rounds. 

what shaft did you put in it?

 

[Jim Shaw]

9 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

I think that you might be able to squeeze a few more yards (but not a lot) out of your driver, if you are generating 98 MPH with the club. That 241 yard carry with the driver is almost exactly what I get while generating a couple MPH less in clubhead speed. However, I launch the ball a couple degrees higher than you (about 17 degrees vs. your 15.1*), and I try to make contact slightly above the center of the face. When I do this, I can get my backspin down a couple hundred RPM lower than you are generating (just a bit above 2,000 to maybe 2,150). If I do this, I get a smash factor very close to 1.50 (maybe 1.46 to 1.48 on less-than-perfect hits). Of course, when I am more than a little bit off, spin goes up, smash factor goes down, and I am looking at 225-230 yards of carry. Luckily, this doesn’t happen too much.

BTW, At age 74, I still have stiff shafts in all of my clubs, although the iron shafts that are marked “S” are about a half flex soft (but they only have 2.0* of torque). My driver, fairway, and hybrid shafts are all stiff-tip, low torque, low to low/mid spin and pretty low launch shafts, which has enabled me to “loft up” a bit, especially with the driver, and to switch from 13.5 to 14* 3-woods to 15.75 to 17.25* 4-woods.

great knowledge of your numbers, that should go a long way to taking the guess work out of some shots, your smash factor is almost perfect...

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

what shaft did you put in it?

 

... I am a shaft Ho but not a shaft snob so I will give the stock AltaCB shaft a chance because ya never know unless you try. But I have several shafts to choose from if it doesn't fit my swing, the most likely shaft will be a Diamana LTD I used in several hybrids I have played. 

[Jim Shaw]

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I am a shaft Ho but not a shaft snob so I will give the stock AltaCB shaft a chance because ya never know unless you try. But I have several shafts to choose from if it doesn't fit my swing, the most likely shaft will be a Diamana LTD I used in several hybrids I have played. 

I have a Kai'li Mitsubishi shaft in both mine, just figured it out lol

[Logster168]

I have a shallow, draw friendly swing. In my experience with hybrids, it promotes a snap hook, so I have taken my 4H out of my bag and replaced it with a driving 2-Iron. However, I have a 3W instead of a 5W. That makes the iron perfectly in the middle of my 3W and 4I. 

If you do decide to go with a hybrid, make sure to get one with an adjustable weight to allow to adjust to your swing type.

[funkyjudge]

14 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

great knowledge of your numbers, that should go a long way to taking the guess work out of some shots, your smash factor is almost perfect...

I've worked on it a lot, Jim.  This has helped me to shave almost 3 strokes off of my rapidly-growing handicap index over the last year to 18 months.  At one time, I was a solid mid-single digit handicapper (6.7 to 8.3 Index for close to 20 years), but that handicap ballooned from a 10 - 11 all the way up to a 17-something at it's highest following extended illnesses and a couple of serious injuries, beginning about 12 years ago when I was in my early 60s.

It helps being a professional clubfitter with access to several high-end simulators and launch monitors where I do most of my fitting work. I spend at least 3 to 4 hours per week on the launch monitor during our "off season", and much of that work revolves around refining my club path, attack angle, launch numbers, etc.  I also use the simulator for chipping and short game practice during the winter months.  Even when I play in the indoor winter leagues on the simulators (in addition to playing on a winter golf tour outdoors from late October/early November until the first of April), I always select "show shot data" for my shots on the virtual golf courses. This helps me analyze my good shots -- and more importantly, my misses -- to determine what I am doing right and wrong and to have something to work on besides just banging balls.

[Jim Shaw]

11 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I've worked on it a lot, Jim.  This has helped me to shave almost 3 strokes off of my rapidly-growing handicap index over the last year to 18 months.  At one time, I was a solid mid-single digit handicapper (6.7 to 8.3 Index for close to 20 years), but that handicap ballooned from a 10 - 11 all the way up to a 17-something at it's highest following extended illnesses and a couple of serious injuries, beginning about 12 years ago when I was in my early 60s.

It helps being a professional clubfitter with access to several high-end simulators and launch monitors where I do most of my fitting work. I spend at least 3 to 4 hours per week on the launch monitor during our "off season", and much of that work revolves around refining my club path, attack angle, launch numbers, etc.  I also use the simulator for chipping and short game practice during the winter months.  Even when I play in the indoor winter leagues on the simulators (in addition to playing on a winter golf tour outdoors from late October/early November until the first of April), I always select "show shot data" for my shots on the virtual golf courses. This helps me analyze my good shots -- and more importantly, my misses -- to determine what I am doing right and wrong and to have something to work on besides just banging balls.

thanks for the info @funkyjudgegetting all the actual feedback must help a lot on what to work on for sure, your post triggers lots of questions in my mind, I am trying to figure out if focusing on the numbers is the direction I need to lean toward, like you I didn't grow up with all the tool for numbers and I have faired really well, but not at the elite level. 

[funkyjudge]

3 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

thanks for the info @funkyjudgegetting all the actual feedback must help a lot on what to work on for sure, your post triggers lots of questions in my mind, I am trying to figure out if focusing on the numbers is the direction I need to lean toward, like you I didn't grow up with all the tool for numbers and I have faired really well, but not at the elite level. 

Jim,  I'm nowhere near the "data and analytics geek" when it comes to golf and the golf swing as are many guys I know .... and clearly many on this forum.  However, I do find that having club path, approach angle, launch and spin numbers helps me to analyze where corrections and changes are necessary to optimize my swing and get the most out of today's excellent club designs.  At my age (I'll be 75 in less than 3 months), every little improvement helps a lot.

[Jim Shaw]

10 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

Jim,  I'm nowhere near the "data and analytics geek" when it comes to golf and the golf swing as are many guys I know .... and clearly many on this forum.  However, I do find that having club path, approach angle, launch and spin numbers helps me to analyze where corrections and changes are necessary to optimize my swing and get the most out of today's excellent club designs.  At my age (I'll be 75 in less than 3 months), every little improvement helps a lot.

"get the most out of today's excellent club designs" those are my thoughts exactly, so far I have not been able to figure it all out and believe me I have spent lots of time thinking about it, one of my questions would be, "have you found a way to take spin off the driver? Like by softening your hands at impact or anything like that?" I think I would like it to feel like a knuckle ball almost.

[funkyjudge]

1 minute ago, Jim Shaw said:

"get the most out of today's excellent club designs" those are my thoughts exactly, so far I have not been able to figure it all out and believe me I have spent lots of time thinking about it, one of my questions would be, "have you found a way to take spin off the driver? Like by softening your hands at impact or anything like that?" I think I would like it to feel like a knuckle ball almost.

The best way to reduce spin with the driver is to hit the ball slightly above the center of the face (even ever so slightly high and toward the toe), with an upward angle of attack that is anywhere from 1.5 or 2 degrees up to 4 degrees up.  Rory McElroy launches the ball high and with very low backspin, and he hits up on the ball by as much as 6 degrees with his driver.  The reason that the World Long Drive guys (and Bryson DeChambeau) launch the ball so high with low spin, even with super low-lofted drivers, is because they hit up on the ball to an extreme.

[Jim Shaw]

5 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

The best way to reduce spin with the driver is to hit the ball slightly above the center of the face (even ever so slightly high and toward the toe), with an upward angle of attack that is anywhere from 1.5 or 2 degrees up to 4 degrees up.  Rory McElroy launches the ball high and with very low backspin, and he hits up on the ball by as much as 6 degrees with his driver.  The reason that the World Long Drive guys (and Bryson DeChambeau) launch the ball so high with low spin, even with super low-lofted drivers, is because they hit up on the ball to an extreme.

i will try that, thanks

 

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

"get the most out of today's excellent club designs" those are my thoughts exactly, so far I have not been able to figure it all out and believe me I have spent lots of time thinking about it, one of my questions would be, "have you found a way to take spin off the driver? Like by softening your hands at impact or anything like that?" I think I would like it to feel like a knuckle ball almost.

 

... Jim at our age I think "dance with the one that brung ya" is always a good idea. As a 0.5 index you have come close to maxing out your abilities and you are in the less than 1% of those that play golf.   Not that we don't always try to improve because we are obsessed, so of course we do. But there are heads and shafts that can reduce your spin without any changes to your swing. I have demoed combinations that did exactly what you described producing knuckleballs and I lost distance and trajectory. Finding the right combination can be fun on your own but a really good fitter will put you in a head and shaft that will max your driver performance.

... I chased high launch and low spin on my own for years but an excellent fitter showed me how more spin and a higher trajectory gave me a longer carry and  total distance. Like Goldilocks some spun too much and others not enough, but when dialed into the exact kind of trajectory and spin for my 95mph swing I gained 12-15 yds but also tighter dispersion over what I was playing. 

[Jim Shaw]

11 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Jim at our age I think "dance with the one that brung ya" is always a good idea. As a 0.5 index you have come close to maxing out your abilities and you are in the less than 1% of those that play golf.   Not that we don't always try to improve because we are obsessed, so of course we do. But there are heads and shafts that can reduce your spin without any changes to your swing. I have demoed combinations that did exactly what you described producing knuckleballs and I lost distance and trajectory. Finding the right combination can be fun on your own but a really good fitter will put you in a head and shaft that will max your driver performance.

... I chased high launch and low spin on my own for years but an excellent fitter showed me how more spin and a higher trajectory gave me a longer carry and  total distance. Like Goldilocks some spun too much and others not enough, but when dialed into the exact kind of trajectory and spin for my 95mph swing I gained 12-15 yds but also tighter dispersion over what I was playing. 

always enjoy your thoughts @chisag. yeah finished the year at +0.2 so did move a bit, but that, as you know, is not the goal, mine is winning and contending in the tournaments i am playing in. I am keeping a close eye on the 55 year olds coming into competition and, in my opinion, they grew up with metal woods and perimeter weighting so they swing harder than you and I did growing up, anyway I like 12-15 more yards and tighter dispersion but if that is not in the cards, chipping and putting will win the day for me.