Ready Golf - The New Norm?

[NM01]

45 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

The problem with ready golf is that seniors like all the eyes in the foursome on the shot so that somebody is likely to see where it went.

Younger players don't seen to understand this.
As it is, my friends and I play weekdays and leave the weekends to the people who are still working for a living. [I had a good week this past week!]

I believe in playing briskly and being considerate of everybody on the course.  I just don't like playing out of conventional order.

What you describe is how all golfers I’ve seen play regardless of age or handicap level. Everyone watches each others shot so that if one goes wayward everyone knows where to start looking for the ball. I’ve yet to play in a group where this didn’t happen regardless if it was random pairings or normal groups.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What you describe is how all golfers I’ve seen play regardless of age or handicap level. Everyone watches each others shot so that if one goes wayward everyone knows where to start looking for the ball. I’ve yet to play in a group where this didn’t happen regardless if it was random pairings or normal groups.

 

If everybody goes straight to his/her ball, it can be hard to have all eyes on the shots.
I do understand people wanting to play quickly.

Weekdays at our club are not so crowded that things bog down,

 

[Javs]

2 hours ago, alii1959 said:

Amateurs who can't break 80 on a regular basis should not be playing for money...it is kinda sad. It slows the game down.

I can’t agree with this generalization of golfers that shoot in the 80’s and 90’s. I play in groups all week with various handicaps. Yes, we play for a few dollars. One’s handicap doesn’t necessarily dictate  pace of play. I play with other scratch players that are extremely slow. I also play with guys that shoot high 80’s and low 90’s that play fast. Slow players are just slow regardless of handicap. Additionally, the handicap system allows for a 18 handicap to play with a scratch player in a match. Both players can play have fun within their ability and still have a competitive game. 

[NM01]

3 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

If everybody goes straight to his/her ball, it can be hard to have all eyes on the shots.
I do understand people wanting to play quickly.

Weekdays at our club are not so crowded that things bog down,

 

While everyone may go to their ball in most situations the other 3 have kept an on eye on the previous shot and can direct the player looking for it where to go for theirs or as we do many times we drop a glove or towel at our ball then proceed to go look for the ball to at went astray while also marking other people’s balls if we come across them. It helps find balls easier, keeps pace of play up and reduces the number of lost balls.

Cool that weekdays at your club aren’t crowded, that’s most courses during the week, has nothing to do with the topic of everyone in the group watching each others balls regardless of age of the golfers. It seems just you reminding everyone you don’t care about playing at anything but your desired pace no matter what.

[bama no 1]

4 hours ago, alii1959 said:

We always play ready golf.  It speeds things up and the better players don't get so frustrated.  

If we truly wanted to speed up play.  Encourage those who are going to hit the ball off into the woods every time not to spend 5 minutes trying to decide what to do.  You do not need to plumb bob each of your 4 putts on the green, just hit the stupid ball.  We are not professionals, and we usually have people waiting on us.

Further, quit playing by committee.  Everybody in the foursome doesn't need to give input to each shot one another plays.  Then they move ten feet and do it again.  Can't you make your own decision?  Why can't cart riders walk 10 yards to their own ball, while waiting for someone else to hit? Amateurs who can't break 80 on a regular basis should not be playing for money...it is kinda sad. It slows the game down.  You do not need to stay on the green for 5 minutes discussing the "great shot" someone hit while people are waiting in the fairway.  If no one is around, have at it, otherwise move along.  We are all thankful you are so talented, but get out of the way.  

I am a fast player, when the pace allows.  Love to move.  Have even been known to run between shots.  I am 65 and can still walk faster than the cart crowd seems to be able to move.  That said, I can play slow and not lose my s*&% if necessary, but it would be nice for people to be cognizant of the people around them and act accordingly.  When we were terrible, we let everyone play through....even kids and ladies.  Don't be proud. 

From your writings, I had no doubt that you are a fast player.  I watched a video clip of Brad Faxon the other day and in that clip he was asked about slow play.  His response, they were talking about slow play 50 years ago and will be talking about slow play 50 years from now.  His solution was either the courses have to be made easier or the courses will have to restrict the number of players.   Faxon hit the nail on the head.

[chisag]

3 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

If everybody goes straight to his/her ball, it can be hard to have all eyes on the shots.
I do understand people wanting to play quickly.

 

... My regular group is pretty varied although almost all seniors. 36, 63, 65, 68, 82 and I am 71. Chris, our 82 yr old pard uses yellow balls but can still have a hard time following his shots and needs the rest of us to watch for him. About 25% of the time he has no idea where his ball went. He plays the forward tees so we are all watching for him. We all walk and go to our individual balls and much of the time we don't see others shots, other than Chris. Because he is the shortest hitter but pretty accurate, he is usually in the fairway and someone is close enough to watch his ball. 

... I just started wearing glasses this year so my vision is still very good but when my eyes start to fail, I too will appreciate others keeping an eye on my ball flight. 

[RetiredBoomer]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It seems just you reminding everyone you don’t care about playing at anything but your desired pace no matter what.

It's not causing a problem, though. 

If it were, I'd hang up the bag and go on with my life.

But it's not.

[cksurfdude]

6 hours ago, bama no 1 said:

His solution was either the courses have to be made easier or the courses will have to restrict the number of players. 

IMHO it's not necessarily "or" - that is, I've played on easy 9 hole courses yet the round there could be 3+ hours...

Some people just really do not give a __ .. they paid their money, they're out to do whatever they ____ feel like .. at whatever pace they ___ feel like.

So even with fewer tee times and fewer golfers on the course "those people" will still cheerfully ignore common courtesy (which needs to be relabeled "UNcommon").

While Brad Faxon makes absolute, near perfect logical sense ... neither premise could work without *people* being courteous and respectful to others.............

(..ok rant over.. ..for now...)

[alii1959]

BTW, I'm a senior golfer too.  Yes, there are days where following the ball can be difficult....cataract surgery seems to have turned loose the floater brigade.  I do appreciate a second pair of eyes now and again.  However, that doesn't mean that I need two or three carts full of people gawking at my shots.  Nor, do we need to discuss each and every shot as it happens.  That could be discussed on the green or next tee box.  Simply, keep moving.  

This is also why I am a dedicated walker.  We move to our respective balls, hit, and meet up at the green eventually.  With the exception of those with serious physical conditions, or much advanced age, we should all be walking.  Sorry, for the rant...I realize that is unrealistic, but I can hope.  As far as the betting is concerned...my point was that they seem to freak out over each shot/putt worrying about the money changing hands.  If you cannot stand to lose don't bet.  If you cannot afford the loss, don't bet.  And, for heaven's sake, don't take ten minutes over a 3ft put while the play behind you backs up...which is what happens at our course.  They get on the green, or gather around the ball, discuss each option in detail, eventually coming to a consensus, and then the ball escapes to places unknown and the process begins all over again.  It is agony to be behind these guys, or gals.   Maybe your experience is different...I hope so for the sake of the people who are playing around you.

[NM01]

44 minutes ago, alii1959 said:

Nor, do we need to discuss each and every shot as it happens.  That could be discussed on the green or next tee box.  Simply, keep moving.  

Discussing it on the green causes the problem you are complaining about. Some people like to comment on others shots good or bad. Never saw that affect pace of play. 
 

44 minutes ago, alii1959 said:

With the exception of those with serious physical conditions, or much advanced age, we should all be walking.

There are courses in different parts of the country that just aren’t walker friendly and rounds would be 5+ hours of that was the case even for those in golf walking shape.

Those who know how to use a cart properly are faster than walkers.

46 minutes ago, alii1959 said:

As far as the betting is concerned...my point was that they seem to freak out over each shot/putt worrying about the money changing hands.  If you cannot stand to lose don't bet.  If you cannot afford the loss, don't bet.  And, for heaven's sake, don't take ten minutes over a 3ft put while the play behind you backs up...which is what happens at our course.  They get on the green, or gather around the ball, discuss each option in detail, eventually coming to a consensus, and then the ball escapes to places unknown and the process begins all over again.  It is agony to be behind these guys, or gals.   Maybe your experience is different.

You’re generalizing based on your experience. Will disagree with this just like previously. Also telling people how or what they should do when it comes to gambling also a little unnecessary. 
 

Sounds like your issue is with your course. You should talk to management and see if they do anything. If not then maybe find another course to play or pick less busy times.

What you experience is far from what I have and I’ve played in multiple states on easy and hard courses and behind sat morning men’s groups that bet.

 

[alii1959]

I don't doubt that it is peculiar to the courses I have been a member of, but it is true nonetheless.  I don't care how people play as long as they move.  I have gotten stuck behind "fishermen" who can't not fish for balls in every water hazard, gamblers (as mentioned before), and shriners in golf carts.  I don't mind if it takes time to play.  But, anything over 4 hours and you are the problem not the solution.  We have a few courses in the area that are not walker friendly...walked them anyway. Courses like that should never be created.  Same holds true for courses with 200+ yard forced carries.  Beginners, and some seasoned players, can't make that shot.  If it is going to take you longer than 4 hours, let faster groups play through....regardless of how many you allow through.  That's what we did when we were learning.  Even let the walkers play through, if they are faster than you.  It won't hurt you.  And, it will speed up play and reduce frustration behind you.  That is all that most of us want.  I don't want to hold you up.  If you play faster than me, come on I will gladly let you play through.  As a group we are amateurs, playing ready golf, allowing faster groups through (which I readily do especially when playing with my 8yo grandson), being cognizant of the delays we cause, and not being too proud to admit we are having a "day" can go a long way to speeding things up.

[bama no 1]

9 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

IMHO it's not necessarily "or" - that is, I've played on easy 9 hole courses yet the round there could be 3+ hours...

Some people just really do not give a __ .. they paid their money, they're out to do whatever they ____ feel like .. at whatever pace they ___ feel like.

So even with fewer tee times and fewer golfers on the course "those people" will still cheerfully ignore common courtesy (which needs to be relabeled "UNcommon").

While Brad Faxon makes absolute, near perfect logical sense ... neither premise could work without *people* being courteous and respectful to others.............

(..ok rant over.. ..for now...)

another point that faxon made that i forgot to add on my other post. he said somehow golfers are more concerned now with how fast you can finish instead of what your score is.  Which is true.  I have read many posts on this thread that hits that very theme.  Oh i finished in 2 hours 15 mins but it would have been faster if I didnt have to wait on the greens crew.

Would you agree that courtesy goes both ways?  Should we not be courteous to those who are not playing as fast as our pace of play?

The main point of Faxon's statement it is a problem that canmot be solved . Sure he added points to maybe help alleviate it but the problem will still exist.  another solution would be to have courses just for a single group.  I think someone has come up with that, its called a golf simulator.

[NM01]

8 hours ago, alii1959 said:

But, anything over 4 hours and you are the problem not the solution.

While I somewhat agree here it’s not quite reality. I play several courses that strictly enforce their pace of play policy and their pick is 4.5 hours. Sub 4 hours is fun for the first groups out and maybe all groups if the tee times are set accurately, but anywhere between 4-4.5 hours is a good pace 

[Javs]

53 minutes ago, bama no 1 said:

another point that faxon made that i forgot to add on my other post. he said somehow golfers are more concerned now with how fast you can finish instead of what your score is.  Which is true.  I have read many posts on this thread that hits that very theme.  Oh i finished in 2 hours 15 mins but it would have been faster if I didnt have to wait on the greens crew.

Would you agree that courtesy goes both ways?  Should we not be courteous to those who are not playing as fast as our pace of play?

The main point of Faxon's statement it is a problem that canmot be solved . Sure he added points to maybe help alleviate it but the problem will still exist.  another solution would be to have courses just for a single group.  I think someone has come up with that, its called a golf simulator.

I can easily play 18 in under 2 hours in the evenings here when no one is in front. Guess what, I still care about my score and do score well. In fact, I play better if I can play quick. Sounds to me as if you are trying to justify slow play. There is no rational reason any group can’t finish between 4 and 4 1/2 hours. 

[That’s Mr. Dirt]

Oh, I wish. In my group, we always play ready Golf. Usually, we’ll be golfing along at a very good pace until we meet the slowest group in the world that is adhering to the rules of the USGA. When they go from ball to ball, as a group it reminds me of pigeons chasing breadcrumbs in the park. These are usually the same golfers that will put four in the water on a par three and still insist on finishing up their fifth putt, because “if you don’t, you’re only cheating yourself”. Pick it up, Herman.

[chisag]

5 hours ago, bama no 1 said:

Would you agree that courtesy goes both ways?  Should we not be courteous to those who are not playing as fast as our pace of play?

 

... I am gonna repeat that playing golf is like being in traffic. You can only go as fast as the vehicles in front of you. When traffic is light we see some driving much faster than others while some drive slower. Fast drivers can't understand why anyone would drive so annoyingly slow and slow drivers can't understand why someone would drive so recklessly fast. So yes, everyone has a responsibility to play at a reasonable pace and most courses set that pace at 4hrs. Like traffic some will want to play faster and some slower but they should all be within the recommended times. 

... We have had the opportunity to play this spring with literally nobody in front or behind us several times. We all walk and golf is social for us, so we are not in any rush to finish but we don't take unnecessary time either. We hit shots, talk on our way to our balls and enjoy each others company as well as the competitive nature of the game. So we are what I would call "casually serious". Having basically a private course, we play in just under 4 hours, but I think most would agree anything in the 3:45 to 4:15 is the sweet spot with the bell curve right at 4hrs. 

 

[bama no 1]

8 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I am gonna repeat that playing golf is like being in traffic. You can only go as fast as the vehicles in front of you. When traffic is light we see some driving much faster than others while some drive slower. Fast drivers can't understand why anyone would drive so annoyingly slow and slow drivers can't understand why someone would drive so recklessly fast. So yes, everyone has a responsibility to play at a reasonable pace and most courses set that pace at 4hrs. Like traffic some will want to play faster and some slower but they should all be within the recommended times. 

... We have had the opportunity to play this spring with literally nobody in front or behind us several times. We all walk and golf is social for us, so we are not in any rush to finish but we don't take unnecessary time either. We hit shots, talk on our way to our balls and enjoy each others company as well as the competitive nature of the game. So we are what I would call "casually serious". Having basically a private course, we play in just under 4 hours, but I think most would agree anything in the 3:45 to 4:15 is the sweet spot with the bell curve right at 4hrs. 

 

great analogy with the traffic scenario.  but like i said, this is a problem that wont ever be solved.

[bama no 1]

12 hours ago, Javs said:

I can easily play 18 in under 2 hours in the evenings here when no one is in front. Guess what, I still care about my score and do score well. In fact, I play better if I can play quick. Sounds to me as if you are trying to justify slow play. There is no rational reason any group can’t finish between 4 and 4 1/2 hours. 

sorry one rational reason is that not everyone is a skilled golfer. Plus someone just learning the game is not going to play fast either.

Im not trying to justify slow play, I am saying that why does someone who plays slower have to meet the pace of play of a faster player.  Golf is for enjoyment, and if you cant have fun playing then maybe a different sport is in order.

[Josh Parker]

3 minutes ago, bama no 1 said:

 

Im not trying to justify slow play, I am saying that why does someone who plays slower have to meet the pace of play of a faster player.  Golf is for enjoyment, and if you cant have fun playing then maybe a different sport is in order.

So for me on this one, I don't mind someone playing slower or "slow".  But I also believe that in this scenario, you should let faster golfers play thru. It allows the slower golfer to enjoy the round as well as the faster golfers. 

[NM01]

10 minutes ago, bama no 1 said:

sorry one rational reason is that not everyone is a skilled golfer. Plus someone just learning the game is not going to play fast either.

Im not trying to justify slow play, I am saying that why does someone who plays slower have to meet the pace of play of a faster player.  Golf is for enjoyment, and if you cant have fun playing then maybe a different sport is in order.

I’ll disagree. I and several guys I played with who were starting out played fast. We never had any issue with holding up the better players in our group and we rarely fell behind the group in front and when we did we caught them with in a couple holes.

Ive played with strangers who were the play 2-3 times a year or beginners and they were faster than some of the better players. Slow players are slow regardless of their skill level.

Theres a pace of play for a course that doesn’t care whether you are new or not. Just maintain or beat the pace of play.

Im a fast player and I enjoy golf with new players that understand it’s not about lolly gaging around or being out for a Sunday stroll. As a new player I never not enjoyed golf while playing faster. The pace never affected my game. I hit bad shots because I was a bad golfer not becaus I was being rushed. Keep up with the group in front of you 

[bama no 1]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ll disagree. I and several guys I played with who were starting out played fast. We never had any issue with holding up the better players in our group and we rarely fell behind the group in front and when we did we caught them with in a couple holes.

Ive played with strangers who were the play 2-3 times a year or beginners and they were faster than some of the better players. Slow players are slow regardless of their skill level.

Theres a pace of play for a course that doesn’t care whether you are new or not. Just maintain or beat the pace of play.

Im a fast player and I enjoy golf with new players that understand it’s not about lolly gaging around or being out for a Sunday stroll. As a new player I never not enjoyed golf while playing faster. The pace never affected my game. I hit bad shots because I was a bad golfer not becaus I was being rushed. Keep up with the group in front of you 

I never said all beginner players  are slow, i said most are and I believe that to be true.  I do have a question that maybe you can answer.   Who determined what the pace of play should be?  Were all skill groups factored into that number?  I agree try to keep up with the group in front of you. With that said, lets say the group in front of you finishes in 5 hours.  which causes your group to finish in over 5 hours. is your group wrong to finish in over 5 hours?  like i said before this is not a solvable problem and never will be.

[bama no 1]

20 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

So for me on this one, I don't mind someone playing slower or "slow".  But I also believe that in this scenario, you should let faster golfers play thru. It allows the slower golfer to enjoy the round as well as the faster golfers. 

I think I read a study once that said allowing faster players through doesnt necessarily reduce pace of play.  I understand the logic, I will see if I can find that study.  That was several years ago.

[Javs]

25 minutes ago, bama no 1 said:

sorry one rational reason is that not everyone is a skilled golfer. Plus someone just learning the game is not going to play fast either.

Im not trying to justify slow play, I am saying that why does someone who plays slower have to meet the pace of play of a faster player.  Golf is for enjoyment, and if you cant have fun playing then maybe a different sport is in order.

One skill has very little to do with pace of play. I play with plenty of golfers that are not very good, but they can still play in 4 hours. Golf is for enjoyment. Who stated they weren’t having fun. Oh maybe it’s the people who are stuck behind those taking 5 hours to play and trying to justify taking that long. We played yesterday in 3 hours. We talked and had a great time. We were able to keep a rhythm going. Today we were stuck behind a group that took almost 5 hours to play. Often there were 3 to 4 groups waiting at some point on the hole because of these guys. They would stand on the tee box until the group in front of them were on the green. Then they teed off. Of course they were able to play the hole without waiting. However, they stacked up the course behind them. When we have shotgun starts at 0800 and 1300, there is no room for a 5 hour round. They backed up the course and held up some of the afternoon groups. That is just being an ass and self centered. Everyone is supposed to enjoy the day. Not just one selfish group. 

[Josh Parker]

3 minutes ago, bama no 1 said:

I think I read a study once that said allowing faster players through doesnt necessarily reduce pace of play.  I understand the logic, I will see if I can find that study.  That was several years ago.

We played Sunday and passed half a dozen groups. We don't push or rush players and they generally see our shots.  We pass quickly and it doesn't slow or change their rounds. To me, it's a win win for everyone. 

[Javs]

7 minutes ago, bama no 1 said:

I think I read a study once that said allowing faster players through doesnt necessarily reduce pace of play.  I understand the logic, I will see if I can find that study.  That was several years ago.

It sure helps if there isn’t anyone in front to hold them up. I have been waved thru many times. We go by and we always thank them. They we can play at a good pace and they can continue on their pace. Speaking of studies: one of the biggest turn offs for younger people coming to the game is that it takes too long. 

[Javs]

4 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

We played Sunday and passed half a dozen groups. We don't push or rush players and they generally see our shots.  We pass quickly and it doesn't slow or change their rounds. To me, it's a win win for everyone. 

Fully agree and that has been my experience as well. I am always respectful and thankful when slower groups let us go past. 

[Josh Parker]

3 minutes ago, Javs said:

Fully agree and that has been my experience as well. I am always respectful and thankful when slower groups let us go past. 

100%  its a must for everyone to enjoy the game.

[Javs]

16 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

100%  its a must for everyone to enjoy the game.

Funny one of the guys in our group today is a marshal at the course as well. He attempted to speak with the group in front. They of course said we paid our money and can do what we want. He kindly reminded them that everyone waiting behind them paid or were members as well. It’s that attitude that makes it even worse. The self centered I got mine and screw everyone else. Playing at a reasonable pace is part of the etiquette of the game. We get that, but those justifying being slow do not. 

Edited June 11 by Javs

[Josh Parker]

5 minutes ago, Javs said:

Funny one of the guys in our group today is a marshal at the course as well. He attempted to speak with the group in front. They of course said we paid our money and can do what we want. He kindly reminded them that everyone waiting behind them paid or were members as well. It’s that attitude that makes it even worse. The self centered I got mine and screw everyone else. Playing at a reasonable pace is part of the etiquette of the game. We get that, but those justifying being slow do not. 

I agree. I want everyone to enjoy.  

[Javs]

1 minute ago, Josh Parker said:

I agree. I want everyone to enjoy.  

Same partner!