Undershooter
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Posts posted by Undershooter
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Interesting. None of the names surprise me, except Young. I'll be interested to see if this is a ploy by liv or not.
Edit: Young and Hideki are confirmed to not be playing liv Boston by Dylan Dethier.
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1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:
Well, that “schmoe” Schwartzel has one thing most of them (including Rory) wish they had: a green jacket. He’s been on four Prez cup teams and was top ten in the World. Pretty good resume IMO.
And he's not been a decent PGAT or EuroT player in years... He's currently 124th in the world which is actually an improvement if you look at the few years before that. He hasn't been a top 50 player in 5 years if I had to guess.
Plenty of the guys on liv were once decent players. That doesn't mean they are currently any good.
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20 hours ago, Bang60 said:
Monopoly a game about money and Golf? Now a game about money, "non-competitive" is just win lose or draw who cares right?
WRONG it seems the tour cares deeply about the Money, particularly after Tiger told them to lol. And this sudden increase in the Money tells the court that Liv is right in offers of more money, also hard to convince the court that Liv players can't play on the PGA tour because there only interested in money not the history and legacy. Money corrupting sports is what's going on, filthy rich BILLIONAIRE people playing money games with NO concern what happens to the players or tradition or leaving a legacy..
So boring...
Increasing purses (which has been the plan for years bc of the new tv contract) has zero effect on liv players rights to play on PGAT. In what world does upping prize money allow suspended players to come back and play? That doesn't even make sense.
What's boring, is the repetitiveness of this thread and the misinformation that continues to be spewed on it.
- poprocksncoke and Bang60
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10 minutes ago, cnosil said:
Then the players should just stop saying things about the traditions of golf. Maybe they are why they are staying on the PGA tour, but they know in doing that they are limiting their income potential. There are many people that are under or overpaid for what they do. Companies pay people what they think they are worth and you can choose to accept it or not. Players have rejected the LIV offers knowing they won't make as much as someone that does. People have chased the LIV money and have been rejected by LIV.
Just because someone has rejected a larger offer to stay and play for history doesn't mean they don't want to get paid more if they have the opportunity to be. How is this difficult at all to understand?
2 year ago the tour couldn't afford to pay players what they can pay them now. Now that they can pay them more, players should turn it down? That's insane. The new money helps keep the guys who were wavering over liv money, while also guaranteeing the ones concerned about history have better competition.
Just because someone wants to play for legacy and tradition doesn't mean they have to forsake money.
10 minutes ago, Bang60 said:And all this extra money is making the case for Liv much easier in Court....
Please explain. Because this does nothing to help prove the tour is a monopoly or exudes non-competitive practices..
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20 hours ago, Shapotomous said:
I looked at the public pga tour financial statement earlier this year and i believe they had a $700M reserve. I would have to make sure my memory is accurate later when i can look it up on a laptop and not my phone. i dont remember what year the statement was filed for.
Incorrect. The highest they ever got was around $300mil prior to covid. Of course they dropped thanks to lockdown, so they currently they sit around $225m, if you believe Jay's statements earlier this year.
17 hours ago, cnosil said:Don't disagree. I provided my opinion that the money being allocated seems to be going to the top players; which based on your statements about the LIV players; have enough money. Hearing PGA players repeatedly saying they playing for the traditions of the game are those that don't need more money and have enough for their lifetime so why allocate more money; let the tour survive based on tradition, being a good employer, and TV viewership. If the players are greedy they will go to LIV no matter how much money the PGA tour comes up with unless the PGA gives the PGA players LIV like money which I don't think will happen. If the product is as good as everyone thinks it will survive on its own merits. This is no different than any person assessing their current job and a new job offer. At the end of the day why is having another employer a bad thing? You can work for them if they offer you a job otherwise you can work for someone else. If you don't like the product that is produced don't watch.
Complaining that players should care only about history is both asinine and short sighted. Sure they make a lot of money now, but these guys are uber competitive. If they see schmoes like Grace and Schwartzel winning on LIV and making twice to three times as much as them, of course that's going to piss them off. The upper end PGAT players know that they are better than players of that caliber, so of course they don't want to be left in the dust monetarily.
This is the first time, other than the TRO getting slapped down, that I think the Tour has had some momentum going in months. Their plan may not be perfect, but at least they are trying to change and evolve. Not to mention the plan seems to be coming from the players meetings with Tiger last weekend. That top end PGAT support leads me to believe that less of those guys are going to LIV as well.Unless they outright lie like Koepka's
self.
- RickyBobby_PR and Shapotomous
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1 hour ago, shootmyage said:
As the $7 billion figure over a nine-year span shows, Mickelson’s $20 billion claim is outlandish. However, there are more than live rights at play. The tour also owns the highlights and a treasure chest of archived assets.
Not too far off or outlandish? Which is it
And I wasn't going to bring it up before, but since you mentioned it.. Isn't the 20 billi in digital assets all supposed to be archived? So that wouldn't even take into account the 7 billion of tv money.
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3 hours ago, shootmyage said:
can you tell me some of phil's lies , also the pga sold the media rights for $8.5 billion , like i said the media in archives is forth a big number so phil's $20 billion is not too far off ..
The TV deal is for $7 billion not 8.5 and if you consider $13 billy "not too far off" then wooo boy
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1 minute ago, shootmyage said:
thanks for telling me , look at my 1st line , as far as the play 15 i'm thinking about the ones that don't play 15 ., as far as what the pga is planning for years i don't know as i am not at their meetings , i think mickelson knows a lot more about the pga worlings than any member of this forum , as far as the LIV giving money to local charities i said " liv big shots " , i did not say guys as i have no idea how much the liv players give to foundations/charities .
Phil may know a lot, but he's also lied even more. Most of the money numbers he pulled out of thin air are not even close to the truth. And it's not like it's something the PGAT can hide. Their books are public.
It's almost like FIGJAM's doing what he's done his entire career. Wolf in sheep's clothing.
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On 8/16/2022 at 3:26 PM, fixyurdivot said:
They'll come to be known as "the minors"
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I found this to be an interesting conversation. Having Tiger showing up at the BMW for a player rally (so to speak) sure sounds to me like the tour is worried about other names considering the move to LIV.
I think Stephen A is basically making the same point as every FB rando on DWMP. He's spouting whataboutism, bringing up the US government and other corporations that happen to do business with the Saudis. It's alright to talk about each situation on it's own merits, but I get why people don't want to if they are on a certain side of this conversation. I'd hope that even the staunchest of liv fans can acknowledge that being a shareholder of a company is quite different from being the sole backer of a startup sports league, who's main goal seems to be PR.
IMO Stephan A is talking out of both sides of his mouth when he brings up the fact that the US is a capitalistic society, yet he has a problem with Tiger backing his own tour. Don't you think it's in Tiger's best interest to back whichever tour he profits from? That in itself is capitalism at work and S.A.S. is a hypocrite if he actually has an issue with that, but not LIV players bailing on the PGAT to take the money, and "do what's best for them." As he says, "is this not America?" I believe it is and Tiger's free to do whatever he likes concerning the PGA tour and it's players. Assuming they are willing to listen to him, which I'd guess most are.
Every player that is committed to either tour has it in their own financial interest for their tour to succeed. It would also help them succeed if they kept or poached( in liv's case) the most talented/famous players because those are the people that draw attention/ put butts in the seats. For example, the PGAT has a TV contract to uphold. They don't have the unlimited pockets of the saudis, so they have to get their money from sponsors and Television rights. Losing top talent could actually void their contract if they lose enough of them.
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41 minutes ago, chisag said:
... Many love to heap this all on Monahan's shoulders but it is also the players on the board that are a part of these decisions. I doubt the players would allow or want an immediate re-instatement for the mutineers, especially those that have sued the tour which is also suing the players.
I think Jay has bungled a ton of this, but I do agree that he's not going to be the only one deciding people's punishments. Reducing a 1 year suspension to a couple of months would be a move a strength by the tour IMO. Lets see if they get in defectors at all though.
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19 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:
I think that from a "legal" standpoint, it would make good sense to allow a smooth re-entry into PGA Tour for those who renounce LIV tour contracts. The PGA shouldn't refuse to let them play forever, that seems to really be over the top. I'm not saying no consequences, perhaps they give up some level of seniority, or serve some months of suspension, there have to be some kind of consequences. A permanent ban definitely sounds monopolistic.
Haven't all the suspension lengths been disclosed? I thought I remembered the longest of them being Phil at 2 years, but I could be making that up.
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50 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:
How do you suppose that would happen?
Players who resigned their membership don’t have the korn ferry tour or pga Latin America as options to gain their card, plus they are also suspended which also takes away any Monday qualifying on those tours.
The players that are suspended but haven’t resigned their memberships will have to apply for reinstatement. Do you think PGA commish is going to grant that?
If the players thought they wouldn’t be banned from the tour and possibly the majors they are either lying or ignorant. They were told up front if they failed to obey the rules they created they would be suspended.
They would have to apply for reinstatement and either serve their suspension or request a hearing for a shorter length/ dismissal of it. I think it would be a genius move by Monahan if he cut down on the suspension for anyone who renounced LIV and came back. Who knows if that would actually happen or not though.
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2 hours ago, LICC said:
I don't see an F1-type team concept working at all in golf. There isn't enough tying the players of a team together to make it compelling.
The PGA's biggest mistake was the wrap-around season. They should have had an offseason with 3 or 4 big events around the world from October to December. Sort of what they are planning to do now. But none of that really makes a difference. Players are going to LIV for the ludicrous money, plain and simple.
It wouldn't work for every event, but I think it would work for the limited "PGL series". Players try to work their way into the top 48 or whatever so that they can make it into those events. The rest of the tour could play the opp field PGA event similar to how they do with the WGCs. This provides playing opportunities and a different product.
You've mentioned the new fall schedule and how they plan to play worldwide. These events have also planned to have some team element as well. I don't think most weeks need a team aspect, but it would be a nice wrinkle if it was added for its own series. It creates story lines, which the PGA Tour need right now. -
5 hours ago, LICC said:
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/super-golf-league-updates-2022
LPGA commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan told The Times of London that she would “take the call” if LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman ever wanted to talk to her about the LPGA.
“It’s my responsibility to evaluate every opportunity,” Marcoux Samaan said in the report. “I would engage in a conversation if it would achieve our aim of promoting women’s golf but there needs to be input from players and sponsors. There’s a lot of factors to consider before we do business with LIV Golf.”
This is what a competent commissioner looks like. Jay could have avoided the large majority of this LIV drama by just taking a phone call from Andy and PGL guys. They wanted to actually work with the tour and it would've been infinitely more interesting than the fractured PGA/ LIV drama that we now have. I seriously think Monahan should lose his job over how badly he's botched all of this.
Imagine if we could've had a real PGA tour version of F1/ Premier league with relegation and calling up players to teams when they're on a heater. Instead we get a hit and giggle with some washed up guys and a few stars. And an even less interesting PGA tour. At least until we see the real changes they roll out and that is going to take time.
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5 hours ago, shootmyage said:
the key word is " contractors " the pga little brother lost a lawsuit , that sets a precedent that US courts can lean on
What lawsuit are you referring to?
I hope you aren't talking about the Euro LIV players suit against the DP World Tour. 1- That lawsuit hasn't been decided yet, and only provided a stay on the players suspensions. 2- That suit has absolutely nothing to do with US caselaw and provides no precedent.
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59 minutes ago, Thin2win said:
Yeah, OWGR will be interesting. There is precedent for some of the stuff that LIV will dispute. The WGC events and the Hero Event show that SOME limited field and no cut events get OWGR.
LIV going up to 14 or 20 events in the future might or might not matter for the individual players. No way of knowing what DJ's contract says, does he have to play in every LIV event or just 8 a year or 12 a year, etc. So adding events might add travel, or not.
Some limited field/ no cut events is the key here. The majority of a tours events must be of a minimum field size and have a cut. This is what allows the WGCs and what not to get OWGR points. They make up 10ish% of the schedule. Also, the Hero went a decade before receiving OWGR points, and honestly I wish they'd strip it of them because the field is so small.
As far as who matters if they leave that's actually in question: Hideki
The number being floated around his leaving is larger than anyone outside of Tiger and Rory's. While it may not matter as much to those of us who are stateside, that would be a massive hit in the Asian markets. He's their version of Tiger and losing him would hurt the PGA Tour.
- Rickp, Thin2win, MGoBlue100 and 1 other
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On 5/19/2022 at 10:31 AM, Shankster said:
Happy Birthday @Undershooter… does this mean you’re an Overshooter now?
@Golfspy_CG2 happy birthday good Sir!
Thank you sir! Definitely getting on up there.
- GrumpyGolf, Kenny B and MattF
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On 2/14/2022 at 4:01 PM, cnosil said:
Your right, he did earn his tour card. I assumed since he got a sponsors exemption into the event he didn't have status, it must be a low status.
All Korn Ferry grads are low in the priority rankings if my memory serves. https://www.pgatour.com/news/2021/priority-ranking-2021-22-season.html
The season long champ or finals winner may get an extra bump, but I don't feel like looking through all the categories atm.
- GolfSpy_APH, Josh Ross and cnosil
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On 1/2/2022 at 6:25 PM, Shankster said:
Congrats Georgia Fans.
time for me to boycott the SEC Championship rematch. Clearly the best two teams are going, but in what other sport do two teams from the same conference play for the marbles…
but the BIG10 is no weaker than any other conference. That’s just nonsense. It was the west that was terrible…
College baseball comes to mind. It's also happened multiple times in college basketball, but its been while. College golf, softball etc...
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1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:
I had 32 in, but tied with @Undershooterand with record being the tie breaker lost out
I estimated perfectly then
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I doubt I can afford him but send me an offer @blackngold_blood.
@GolfSpy_APH message me on slack or send me something. I'm willing to deal
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Anybody carrying two TEs and willing to part with one of them?
I don't feel like looking through everyone's teams and trying to send in offers haha
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16 hours ago, HeathS16 said:
For sure, grew up going to DBU baseball camps and then Oklahoma Christian joined DBU's conference my last 2 years. I always loved that they were a small school who could go to-to-toe with DI's. (Baseball is a bit different in that its more of a level playing field, all you need is 1 DUDE pitcher to make a run at someone.)
Of course the money ruins it all lol Yea it's not worth Vandy leaving, even though they suck a football they get a good share of the money by being SEC, I would judge them if they left honestly.
I do wish it would work though, cool and unique story of DBU could offer some insights into how the future pans out if indeed something happens to the NCAA like all the conspiracy theorists are suggesting.
This may not be the case any more but DBU used to be able to rake. They played in a small ballpark and always had 4 or 5 guys that could go yard at any time. We never played them, but I was very aware of them and their reputation.
Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News
in Tour Talk
Posted
Do you legitimately think that the 100th ranked golfer in the world is worth the same as the 100th best NFL, NBA or MLB player?
Those league's market caps dwarf that of the golf world.