Do All Clubs Perform The Same?

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

The USGA and R&A have their rules and limits, so the question must be asked...

 

Do all clubs within a specific category (blades, cavity backs, GI, SGI, drivers, etc), perform the same?

 

What makes a player hit a Nike Pro Combo iron better than a Titleist iron?  Why can a guy bomb a G30 but barely get out of his way with an SLDR?

 

Sure, there's fitting, shaft, loft, lie -- but it all things were equal, what's the differentiator?  

 

How much does what's going on between the ears matter?

 

I like this guy - he has a pretty interesting take on the question...

 

 

What say you, goffin' peeps?

[wbealsd]

"All things were equal" is the tricky part

 

But if the shaft characteristics, offset, loft, lie-angle, swing weight, etc ARE truly equal then the performance WITHIN a specific category should be the same.

 

I think the reason we may not get the same performance may be due to the appearance, sound or other subjective bias we have about specific clubs.  No matter what the difference between clubs is, if a club doesn't look or feel right we're not going to play as well with it.

[Blade]

It's mental alright. Take two clubs fit to a person relatively well especially as far as shafts go, and one will not really be a standout game changer over another one if the mental component were removed. But if there is something a person doesn't like about one, looks, sound, feel, that mental block to it will likely prevent them from swinging it as well as the other.

 

However I think there is a performance difference in clubs nonetheless when it comes to real world results. For example, I've had a shaft that feels and performs great in one head just not work in another keeping me from being as consistent with center contact. I guess the difference in weight distribution between the heads translated to a different feel during the swing that affected the quality of the strike in the end.

 

So perfect contact from one club to another may not show much if any difference. But real world results from one to another for a particular person can be very different.

[jbil8802]

I agree. I also like Mark Crossfield. I think he is very realistic in his reviews of clubs. I have no doubt that if I got properly fit for every "2015" driver on the market right now I would probably get close to the same results with all of them. I believe that most "performance" comes down to the mental aspects of look and feel and maybe brand bias.

 

For instance, I normally game G25 irons in 5-9. I ordered a set of S55 irons in my specs in 5-9 for the hell of it to mess around with because I'm a club ho. I put them in the bag and gamed them the past 3 rounds I've played just because. In those 3 rounds I've shot 83, 82, and 81. The 82 and 81 were new personal bests for me. I know that the S55s are made for "maximum workability" and my G25s are made for "maximum forgiveness". I just really prefer the look and feel of the S55 irons even though according to most people I probably shouldn't own them or even touch them. But for right now, they're staying in the bag.

[mr_divots]

I don't do LM's much at all anymore. I know that some clubs just have better sounds and other sensations to me at impact. If I don't like the sensations, I could care less about the #'s.

Have played enough gear to know when set up very similarly, its going to perform very similarly. Then its down to personal preferences. Pretty safe analysis there by Crossfield. Things like face slots on irons may make it a little tougher to make general comparisons these days.

 

I like it when he makes rash statements like "shaft flex doesn't matter."

[silver & black]

 I know that the S55s are made for "maximum workability" and my G25s are made for "maximum forgiveness". I just really prefer the look and feel of the S55 irons even though according to most people I probably shouldn't own them or even touch them. But for right now, they're staying in the bag. 

 

This.

 

I firmly believe that if you don't like the look or sound of a certain iron/driver you aren't going to hit it well.... "well" being a subjective thing for "you"...lol.

 

I have a bias towards Mizuno for irons and Titleist for drivers. I'm more than sure that I could play just as well....or bad with a different brand for each. I just like the sound, feel and looks of Mizuno irons. Ditto for Titleist drivers.

 

I also play irons that I should probably not be playing (Mizzy MP-64). I love them!!! I'm not what you'd call a "player" by any means. I usually shoot in the low 80"s and occasionally I get a round or two in the high 70"s.

 

I just love the simple beauty of the 64's (to my eye). I love the feel of them. I really don't have a lot of miss hits with them. I don't notice any difference in my scores since I started using them two years ago over the CB's I used to play.

 

I always gravitate to Titleist drivers for the same reason.... I love the sound and classic good looks. Would I do better with a different brand? I really don't know!

[westy]

I'm pretty sure that MGS analysis has shown there ain't much difference between drivers; not really.

 

Irons, hybrids and wedges? Well that's a bit different -

 

yes appearance is important to some, others not.

 

Sound can be an issue

 

Feel - go on define feel someone! But, we've all said that one club feels better than another.

 

The list could go on.

 

we play in an era of great clubs, we are very lucky.

[Kenny B]

When I went to my fitting a few years ago, I went with the idea that I would get Ping i20 irons. I hit everything, but still ended up with the i20's. Why? Because what westy said about feel; they just felt better. Was it preconceived? Maybe, but they did have the best numbers and ball flight. I honestly think that the "feel" of a club has a lot to do with swingweight matching your natural swing tempo. The look of a club can be a turnoff, but if it feels good, who cares.

 

As for drivers... I tried them too. All of them... Not one was any better or felt better than my gamer at the time. Nothing was significantly worse either. 2.5 years later and I am still searching for the right one. Maybe 2015 is my year!?!

[mbrodeur86]

This is a question that can have many replies to it. My personal opinion is that it comes down to YOUR swing and which company fits it the best. It's like cars, why are there so many different models? Because not everybody likes Toyota or Chevrolet. 

 

The other thing is how many have actually got fit for their equipment? I'd love to have a week with a fitter and have every different company, shaft company, ball company etc.... there and get fit for the right equipment. Ain't gonna happen but one can dream 

[revkev]

It's mental alright. Take two clubs fit to a person relatively well especially as far as shafts go, and one will not really be a standout game changer over another one if the mental component were removed. But if there is something a person doesn't like about one, looks, sound, feel, that mental block to it will likely prevent them from swinging it as well as the other.

 

However I think there is a performance difference in clubs nonetheless when it comes to real world results. For example, I've had a shaft that feels and performs great in one head just not work in another keeping me from being as consistent with center contact. I guess the difference in weight distribution between the heads translated to a different feel during the swing that affected the quality of the strike in the end.

 

So perfect contact from one club to another may not show much if any difference. But real world results from one to another for a particular person can be very different.

 

 

Cut and apaste this one for my reply - shouldn't but in reality it does make a difference even within category once you put the clubs into the hands of real players.

[hckymeyer]

... but it all things were equal, what's the differentiator?  

I think this is the key part, all things are never equal.  With 90% off people playing "stock" clubs there will always be performance differences. (i made up the 90%, no idea what it actually is)

 

I also do believe there is a difference between clubs on mishits even if everything could be equal.  Center of the sweet spot?  I don't think there is a difference.  The guys over at PluggedIn did an interesting test between players and GI/SGI irons where they made each iron the same loft and length, turns out they both went about the same distance when things were equaled out.  There was still a big difference with how forgiving the distance irons were, bad shots weren't penalized nearly as much.

 

So my belief is that even with all things equal within a specific category if you can't hit the sweet spot 100% of the time there will be differences between how each club performs.  In this day and age of golf the differences can be pretty damn small, but they are still there.

[ZenGolfer]

I wouldnt put much stock in what Crossfield says.  He used to be pretty sharp but lately he's turned to twisting the numbers of unscientific tests to support his arguments.  He lost me after his, "shaft flex doesnt matter" videos.

Now, as far as are all clubs the same, yes....and no.  In terms of woods and hybrids, theres little difference from one brand to the next.  In terms of irons and wedges, if you are talking cast irons, theres little difference but if you are talking forged irons there can be a huge difference.  You can greatly change the sound/feel of an iron depending upon what blend of metals you use, what temperature you forge the metal at and what degree of secondary forging (or if you even seconadary forge at all).
 

[wbealsd]

If we go back to "all things being equal," in reality they seldom (if ever) are.  While my local fitter definitely feels that matching the right shaft to the head you want to use is key (and that's true, as far as it goes), I believe there are enough differences between some club designs that even within a class of head types (blades, CB, GI, cast/forged, etc) that all aspects of a club have to feel and look "right" for each of us before we're going to be comfortable with it.

 

There's obviously a lot of science in club-fitting, but there's an artistic element to it that I think makes the difference between a club-FITTER vs a club-BUILDER.

[imgolfing4]

As a guy with more golf equipment then sense, I can concur with "what's between the ears" plays a huge part in performance.

The garage holds some 20 sets of irons from super game improvement Snake Eyes Fire something or other, Bang Irons to Maltby MB2 and Raven Blades.

 

What's in the bag?

Driver TM R-1 (Fujikura F1 Motore or Snake Eyes Viper Diamana Whiteboard, PowerPlay Cayman 10.5 Project X.

3 wood Quadratic 15*

Hybird 18* Snake Eyes

Irons 3 - PW Maltby MB2's KBS Tour or 3 - PW Malty MB2's with Project X 5.5

Wedges 56* and 60* Maltby Tour Grind MG

Putter Maltby Pure Track 34" Winn Pro 1.32" grip