[UK] CONGU handicap issue.

[puttingpirate]

Hey there. 

 

So this happened about 3 months ago.

 

I'm a member at a golf course in London, it's 6800y from the members tees and 7060 from championships. It's the first club ever I've joined, and thats where I've received / am holding my hcp. Been there for under a year now and it stands at a solid 18, which is what I can expect to play there on a 'oh its going well today' day.

 

But I also enjoy playing a lot of different courses, especially during the week when I can enjoy them being fairly quiet.

 

One Wednesday I show up to this club, ask for a pay for a green fee and they had a society playing there. They've overheard me and told me I can join them for £5 extra and play with them the same day provided my hcp was sub 24.

 

Played very well, scored 4 over gross. I was fairly familiar with the course, and have scored 10 or less there numerous times (2 eagles there this year).

 

We went all to the club house, handed in signed cards, started drinking more beer.

 

As far as I remember I ended up with around 50 stableford points.

 

They announced the lowest score and highest stableford winner, and to my surprise it was both me.

People got pissed off. First jokingly, then a little more serious as there was £100 cash and £100 american golf voucher for grabs.

 

The organiser asked for my club details, so they can confirm my hcp - I happily provided it. They've managed to check it, gave me the prizes but most people were quite hostile.

 

A few days later I get an email that I've been removed from the societies mailing list and MeetUp group. Not that I cared a lot.

 

So - question is - should I have been ostracised for obtaining my hcp at a much different/more difficult course? As the one we've played with the society is only 5200, par 69 with 3 par 4s between 270-310 and 2 par 5s between 450-470;  vs 6800 par 72 with 460 par 4s and 520+ par 5s.

 

So, what do you guys think?

[hckymeyer]

Was the handicap you played with adjusted for the course slope and score rating?  

[puttingpirate]

Was the handicap you played with adjusted for the course slope and score rating?  

 

As far as I'm aware that only works for USGA hcps, not CONGU. Most courses in the UK are not rated for slope/score. 

 

And no. No adjustments.

[hckymeyer]

Sounds like a tough situation then.  If no adjustments are made in CONGU (sorry I'm not familiar) on a regular basis then you did nothing wrong.  The other players were just upset that you played a good round and an "outsider" won the money.

 

On the flip side an 18 on a 6800+ yd hard course is much different than an 18 on a 5200yd easier course.  Personally I feel like an adjustment would be appropriate.  But with no official slope and score ratings on courses I have no idea how you would do that.

 

In the states through the USGA there is a formula that will adjust your handicap for individual courses based off the slope and score rating.  So you might be a straight up 18 at one course, a 19 at another, and a 16 at another.  Trust me, it's not a perfect system but at least it does take course difficulty in to account when setting up a match.

 

This would probably be a good question for the pro at your home course.  Ask how your handicap should travel when you go to play other courses that may not be as long or difficult.

 

IMO the proper procedure would have been to take the winnings and buy a round for the other players, then enjoy the voucher as your prize.

[revkev]

I know there are differences between your handicapping system and ours. So long as yours was handled per the normal procedures there it's not your fault. In fact since there was a committee and you were forthcoming about your handicap and where it was obtained it's not your fault.

 

It's the handicap committee's job to make things equitable assuming all participants are being honest. Over here your handicap would have been adjusted.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[puttingpirate]

Sounds like a tough situation then.  If no adjustments are made in CONGU (sorry I'm not familiar) on a regular basis then you did nothing wrong.  The other players were just upset that you played a good round and an "outsider" won the money.

 

On the flip side an 18 on a 6800+ yd hard course is much different than an 18 on a 5200yd easier course.  Personally I feel like an adjustment would be appropriate.  But with no official slope and score ratings on courses I have no idea how you would do that.

 

In the states through the USGA there is a formula that will adjust your handicap for individual courses based off the slope and score rating.  So you might be a straight up 18 at one course, a 19 at another, and a 16 at another.  Trust me, it's not a perfect system but at least it does take course difficulty in to account when setting up a match.

 

This would probably be a good question for the pro at your home course.  Ask how your handicap should travel when you go to play other courses that may not be as long or difficult.

 

IMO the proper procedure would have been to take the winnings and buy a round for the other players, then enjoy the voucher as your prize.

 

Actually may ask my pro, see what he says.

 

I bought drinks for my playing group, as they were nice and welcoming. By the time I got the winnings a lot of people have left, and they've not been the nicest group so I thought - sod it. 

[hckymeyer]

Actually may ask my pro, see what he says.

 

I bought drinks for my playing group, as they were nice and welcoming. By the time I got the winnings a lot of people have left, and they've not been the nicest group so I thought - sod it. 

Like Rev said, you told them your handicap and where you got it.  They had all the relevant information and let you play. 

 

Congrats on a good round and enjoy the winnings.  I wouldn't sweat it and it's on them for being poor sports.  Nobody likes a sore loser.

[PlaidJacket]

There's a big Day Game each Friday at my club. Can be as many as +-25 players some days. I don't play in it very much but it's fun once in a while. The skin buy-in is $20. It's hard to win a skin with that many players and quite a number of them are younger scratch players. It's not handicapped. Heads-up. So the few times I join the game it's a donation and I know that going in. One Friday afternoon late I arrived at the club to practice and saw one of the guys in the parking lot. I asked how he played and he replied he'd shot even. But.... he said, "some youngster" college player joined them and shot a 62 (par 70) and cleaned their clock. And their Cash! LOL I later heard grumblings that they didn't want him to play with them any more. LOL

I suppose your side of the pond is no different than ours pirate.

[Golfzilla2069]

Sounds like the are just bitter wankers! If you shot 110 they would happily take your money and invite you back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[josmi15]

Sounds like the are just bitter wankers! If you shot 110 they would happily take your money and invite you back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I agree. They'd have had no problems taking your money in the event that you lost. Congrats on your win

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[puttingpirate]

I agree. They'd have had no problems taking your money in the event that you lost. Congrats on your win

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

Sounds like the are just bitter wankers! If you shot 110 they would happily take your money and invite you back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

Yeah tbh haven't thought of it that way. Very fair point. 

 

Thanks for it, now I don't feel bad.

[josmi15]

Or as Morrey says in “Goodfellas” about owing money to DeNiro

 

F—- em

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Rickp]

Or as Morrey says in “Goodfellas” about owing money to DeNiro

 

F—- em

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Agree, don't lose any sleep over those guys.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Kanoito]

I thought Europe used the same hcp system?

Usually, you carry an index which then translates to a hcp depending on which course you play.

 

For instance 18 is your index, on a difficult course you get 25 strokes and on an easy course 13. If you got no course/slope rating, then it might be difficult. But that is not your fault.

[puttingpirate]

I thought Europe used the same hcp system?

Usually, you carry an index which then translates to a hcp depending on which course you play.

 

For instance 18 is your index, on a difficult course you get 25 strokes and on an easy course 13. If you got no course/slope rating, then it might be difficult. But that is not your fault.

 

No, there are apps that try to do it for you like VPAR. And it gives you a vpar index. But the UK / CONGU hcp is flawed as it doesn't get adjusted.

[Kor.A.Door]

Even if there were adjustments made to your HCP it likely wouldn't have been enough to help them. It would probably have been 3-4 strokes going from difficult to easier courses. Even with the change in length. Our blue tees are 136. The gold tees are 124, and it only changes about 3-4 strokes. Not sure of that would have changed the outcome of that match.

[revkev]

Bottom line is you won fair and square.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[josmi15]

Listen to Rev, he knows what he's talking about

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy