Are older golfers hor@@ old men

[Big money]

We had an clinc this afternoon for introducing women into golf.The average age was between 25 to 40 and was a great time by all.And one participant was my niece who is 29.During the clinic I walked into the men’s clubhouse for a quick drink.On the terrace, stood at least a dozen middle aged - early senior men making rude explicit  comments amongst themselves.The conversation was all centered  around the young women practicing on the range with our pro.Really took offense with this and expressed my dislike of it.They disbanded but the talks were contined as they walked away 

how would you have handled this? And does this happen at most clubs 

[deauxrite]

I think that the key phrase here  is "amongst themselves".  I do not involve myself in other peoples conversations and would have walked on.  Rude comments happen everywhere..club, garage, Walmart..everywhere. 

[null]

I've seen it on here too. It's definitely not a good look.

[GB13]

Unfortunatly, this type of behavior is pervasive in our society. It's a difficult situation to handle since it can be a sensitive subject. I'd say, if it makes you uncomfortable, politely ask them to stop. 

[SteddyGolf]

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Women do the same thing. If you put a group of middle aged women together combined with a little alcohol the conversation will get quit colorful to say the least. Now you throw in a group of younger athletic and attractive men for them to observe the comments will hit every color of the rainbow. Pot let me introduce you to kettle.

Does this make either group right or wrong? Heck I don’t know. A private conversation between friends is harmless unless it affects others in a negative way. There are a lot of conversations that take place in this world that I would prefer to not listen to or participate in. If I am in ear shot of their comments and cannot dismiss myself from the situation I’d probably ask them to tone it down a bit. If I can simply remove myself from the situation that’s probably the route I’d take.


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[Mr. 82]

10 hours ago, deauxrite said:

I think that the key phrase here  is "amongst themselves".  I do not involve myself in other peoples conversations and would have walked on.  Rude comments happen everywhere..club, garage, Walmart..everywhere. 

This for me as well.  It's not my conversation, and not my business.

I was in the parking lot of my club on Sunday and I overheard two old white guys talking about politics, and some really negative things about...well, let's just say that I am a conservative, and they were saying conservative things, but I was pissed because they were saying things I wouldn't even say out loud, or honestly think.  They fit the stereotype of everything negative you hear about old white men.  Just makes me sick.  But again, not my conversation so I just ignored them and walked on without saying a word.

[tony@CIC]

8 hours ago, SteddyGolf said:

 If I can simply remove myself from the situation that’s probably the route I’d take.

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That's the route I'd take as well - the smaller the audience, the less likely they'll expand on the topic.  

[TheWahoo]

Regarding the topic scenario, I cannot comment on what my response would be because I do not know specifically what comments were made.    I cannot judge or respond to statements or words unless I know the context and intent of those statements and words.   Two men or two women could make the exact same statement but I may respond differently based on my perception of the context and intent in which those statements were made.  

[NiftyNiblick]

10% nice guys (or broads).

60% jerks.

30% just doing the best that they can.

I think that I may really have hit on something with this breakdown.

Seems to apply almost everywhere.

I would tentatively place myself in the 30%, but we don't see ourselves as others see us

so I could easily be just another slob in the 60%.

[PlaidJacket]

9 hours ago, SteddyGolf said:

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Women do the same thing.

I rarely get offended. Crude conversation isn't my cup of tea and I'd prefer to not be a part of it. But good natured joking, comments, etc. is what takes place between the sexes. That's the way it is. When/if it becomes crude I draw a line and ask that it be toned it down. If not I leave.

[Big money]

Their conversation had an extreme sexually explicit tone.It was easily heard by all in the men’s area of the club

[TheWahoo]

24 minutes ago, Twofer said:

Their conversation had an extreme sexually explicit tone.It was easily heard by all in the men’s area of the club

Based on your original post, you noted that they were on the terrace and were making comments among themselves, perhaps mistakenly,  I assumed that you merely had walked into a rather private conversation.  A conversation that you found offensive.   The fact that they were doing so in a manner where all can hear adds an additional element or circumstance.  As such, it is no longer a private conversation, but rather public.  If you were to find yourself in a similar scenario, my advise would be to calmly say to them:  "Gentlemen, I understand that you may be entertaining each other, but I find your comments to be offensive.   So I ask that you calm it done, reduce the volume.  I and perhaps others have no desire to hear or listen."   I guess its my nature to try to avoid a potential conflict as opposed to exacerbating it.    

[PMookie]

As an answer to the title: NO.

I don’t agree with lumping EVERYONE into a category. Ridiculous.

As far as what you heard, if it was as noted, on the terrace, among a small group, I keep walking. If it’s in the larger area, and folks have no choice to hear it, and I’m a member, I probably would say something especially if a relative of mine were in the group being talked about.
But, back to the question posed. It’s totally unfair to generically say something about “all” based on comments by a the very few...



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[DaveP043]

17 hours ago, Twofer said:

We had an clinc this afternoon for introducing women into golf.The average age was between 25 to 40 and was a great time by all.And one participant was my niece who is 29.During the clinic I walked into the men’s clubhouse for a quick drink.On the terrace, stood at least a dozen middle aged - early senior men making rude explicit  comments amongst themselves.The conversation was all centered  around the young women practicing on the range with our pro.Really took offense with this and expressed my dislike of it.They disbanded but the talks were contined as they walked away 

how would you have handled this? And does this happen at most clubs 

I think that when men have a separate grillroom, or in a locker room, you're pretty likely to hear conversations that the men would never think of having in a mixed setting.  Certain men seek out that setting, because they enjoy acting like randy teenagers rather than as adults.  I think you did the right thing to say something.  I see very little of this at my club, thankfully, largely because the membership "police" one another.  We also don't have any "men-only" areas outside of the locker room.  Generally, all it takes is a request to keep it down, or a reminder that the particular young lady is ______'s daughter, that your wife is coming down the path, and the situation fades away.  

I guess my answer, I'd speak to guy I know to ask them to tone it down or find someplace more private.  And I imagine whenever you get a group of men together, there will always be at least a couple of old lechers.  

[yungkory]

 

5 hours ago, NiftyNiblick said:

10% nice guys (or broads).

60% jerks.

30% just doing the best that they can.

I think that I may really have hit on something with this breakdown.

Seems to apply almost everywhere.

I would tentatively place myself in the 30%, but we don't see ourselves as others see us

so I could easily be just another slob in the 60%.

[tony@CIC]

there will always be at least a couple of old lechers.  

Virtually all of the older guys I know wouldn't fit into that category and are quick to change the conversation if it goes that way. Maybe because they have daughters or granddaughters??


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[Big money]

I would’ve said something. And I don’t care if it was public or extremely private golf club. They might be a member, but they sure as hell don’t own the place. Nor do they have the right spouting off sexual comments degrading women. 

But our own commander and chief has broken this rule more times than one can keep track of.So not surprised society is getting bolder and more obnoxious daily 

[Kor.A.Door]

13 hours ago, Big money said:

I would’ve said something. And I don’t care if it was public or extremely private golf club. They might be a member, but they sure as hell don’t own the place. Nor do they have the right spouting off sexual comments degrading women. 

But our own commander and chief has broken this rule more times than one can keep track of.So not surprised society is getting bolder and more obnoxious daily 

I would say a very large percentage of men have thought, or said something like this whether in a private or public setting at some point in their life. The President is human, and is not perfect, this behavior has nothing to do with him or any other politician, this has to do with Men being crude and rude when they are in a public setting with a group of Old guys, and they are saying these things they the OP took offense, he asked what would we have done in the same situation. Again, this is not an issue brought on by the President as you suggest, this has been going on since the beginning of time. It happened before he became president just as much as it will after he is no longer in office. I think bringing the president into this conversation was poor judgement. Sorry guys, but I felt like I needed to say something. I think Big Money is a valuable member here, but his comment about the President was not needed. 

[NiftyNiblick]

18 hours ago, yungkory said:

 

My maternal grandmother was possibly the coolest broad that I ever knew.

It's not in any way a derogatory term where I grew up.

Maybe Hawaii is different.

[tony@CIC]

I would say a very large percentage of men have thought, or said something like this whether in a private or public setting at some point in their life. The President is human, and is not perfect, this behavior has nothing to do with him or any other politician, this has to do with Men being crude and rude when they are in a public setting with a group of Old guys, and they are saying these things they the OP took offense, he asked what would we have done in the same situation. Again, this is not an issue brought on by the President as you suggest, this has been going on since the beginning of time. It happened before he became president just as much as it will after he is no longer in office. I think bringing the president into this conversation was poor judgement. Sorry guys, but I felt like I needed to say something. I think Big Money is a valuable member here, but his comment about the President was not needed. 

I'd agree on let's keep politics out of this - one of the key reasons I stay on this site is that it's not political.

My only correction to your point is that the conversations are not limited to "Old" guys. I've been embarrassed by some of the conversations heard coming from younger golfers (and I'm ex Navy). Those conversations go across a wide age group.

As I've also mentioned before and maybe our club is unique - but the topics are rare if heard at all at our club. And if they were the first thing I'd do is mention to the GM so he could address it - that's his job.


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[robertson153]

The “old guys” at my club play early in the morning, so I’m never around to hear what they say. On the other hand I play with middle aged guys (40-60)and their language about anything is in no way offensive. But my club is in a small town where everyone knows everyone, so if you did talk like that, most likely you would be talking about someone in your group daughter, niece, cousin, granddaughter, or family friend. You would certainly not be tolerated, might even get some knuckles upside your head


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[Kor.A.Door]

5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

 

 

I'd agree on let's keep politics out of this - one of the key reasons I stay on this site is that it's not political.

My only correction to your point is that the conversations are not limited to "Old" guys. I've been embarrassed by some of the conversations heard coming from younger golfers (and I'm ex Navy). Those conversations go across a wide age group.

As I've also mentioned before and maybe our club is unique - but the topics are rare if heard at all at our club. And if they were the first thing I'd do is mention to the GM so he could address it - that's his job.


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For sure it’s not limited to just old guys. It’s just the mentality of men I think, not all men of course, but many. 

[Big money]

19 hours ago, Kor.A.Door said:

I would say a very large percentage of men have thought, or said something like this whether in a private or public setting at some point in their life. The President is human, and is not perfect, this behavior has nothing to do with him or any other politician, this has to do with Men being crude and rude when they are in a public setting with a group of Old guys, and they are saying these things they the OP took offense, he asked what would we have done in the same situation. Again, this is not an issue brought on by the President as you suggest, this has been going on since the beginning of time. It happened before he became president just as much as it will after he is no longer in office. I think bringing the president into this conversation was poor judgement. Sorry guys, but I felt like I needed to say something. I think Big Money is a valuable member here, but his comment about the President was not needed. 

Feel free and please delete my post

[Sluggo42]

Well, I guess I fall into the category of an “old white guy”, and I used to be a young white guy. And it seems that when an attractive young woman in a short golfing outfit is within my viewing range, I still cannot help having a gaze. I think the good Lord made us that way. And I know women do the same, as someone else stated.

since the beginning of time right?

So the reason that “old white guys” leer at young ladies is pretty obvious and I would bet that 99 percent of all men in general, of all races, and of all ages, all probably look at attractive young women, and I would also bet that 99 percent probably have some “thoughts” about them too.

the difference, a few guys having their filters lowered by some alcohol and the “good old boys” club environment. Shocked by this happening? Really? 

The real situation is the “loud comments” by a few of them. And yes, I’ve heard the same thing at a restaurant by some young men who weren’t “white”. And yes they’re rude and someone did ask them to STFU, which they did. Which is what needs to be said at any event to anyone who is letting their alcohol speak for them.

Point is that I’m about sick of all the crap about “old white guys”. It’s just as racist and decisive as generalizing about any other group of human beings

[robertson153]

 
It's impossible to un-ring a bell or put toothpaste back in the tube.
This has now been spoken about, so I feel free to speak as well. 
I would offer the alternative opinion that anything derogatory said about the current president is totally appropriate in any setting.
It's far more important to me than golf ever was.
 
 
 

I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand people on here don’t give 2 shits what you all think about this president or any other political figure. This is a golf forum, keep your political views to yourself.


Blake

[robertson153]

Probably best to delete/lock this thread


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[tony@CIC]

 

It's impossible to un-ring a bell or put toothpaste back in the tube.

This has now been spoken about, so I feel free to speak as well. 

I would offer the alternative opinion that anything derogatory said about the current president is totally appropriate in any setting.

It's far more important to me than golf ever was.

 

 

 

Can we please leave the politics to another forum. Additionally this clearly isn't in keeping with the 'moral codes' that Adam established for this site, specifically:

 

2. No political, religious or race comments

 

I come to this site to share info about golf and to learn from you golf experts.

 

 

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[NiftyNiblick]

1 hour ago, robertson153 said:

I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand people on here don’t give 2 shits what you all think about this president or any other political figure. This is a golf forum, keep your political views to yourself.


Blake

I'm the third,    not the first,     person on this thread to post on the subject,     but it's my post that you quote.

You can't possibly expect me to care that I'm the one you like least, Blake.

[tony@CIC]

Probably best to delete/lock this thread


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Agree!

Mods can you follow-up on robertson's request to lock or delete this thread


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[robertson153]

I'm the third,    not the first,     person on this thread to post on the subject,     but it's my post that you quote.
You can't possibly expect me to care that I'm the one you like least, Blake.

How could I not like you? I don’t know you. I quoted you because you were the last one to post. So if someone doesn’t agree with what you say they automatically don’t like you?


Blake