The Stack System Review and Progress Thread

[bigteesgolf]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:56 PM, Jlocke22 said:

Cold is here in Michigan. Going to be back to hitting it hard in the gym with just “sim league” once a week. Trying to push it past this plateau and add in some mobility work and stretching. 
 

Adding in some more velocity med ball work and weighted jumps to see if I can push past this plateau. 
 

 

BEAST!  Those are some impressive numbers...You mentioned sim league.  SGT?

[Hoyoymac]

4 minutes ago, bigteesgolf said:

Your numbers look very similar to mine (Stack speed, eSpeed, Distance potential.  Curious what your actual driver distance is like on the course.  Their distance potential accounts for carry + roll....are you seeing the 305 mark on the course? More? Less? 

Thanks.

The Potential distance is based off of very generous assumptions.

My on course distances are much less.  For a variety of reasons.  Generally I’m not swinging at Max level on the course. I play at sea level and our course has fairways that are pretty soft so there is not much roll.

When I play in Wisconsin during the summer I typically gain 10 yards due to the change in elevation and course conditions.

But my distance has increased on the course after starting with the Stack System.

A good drive for me now is about 265.  Before starting with the swing speed training it was about 245.

[bigteesgolf]

14 minutes ago, Hoyoymac said:

The Potential distance is based off of very generous assumptions.

My on course distances are much less.  For a variety of reasons.  Generally I’m not swinging at Max level on the course. I play at sea level and our course has fairways that are pretty soft so there is not much roll.

When I play in Wisconsin during the summer I typically gain 10 yards due to the change in elevation and course conditions.

But my distance has increased on the course after starting with the Stack System.

A good drive for me now is about 265.  Before starting with the swing speed training it was about 245.

That makes sense.  I've heard varying feedback on the accuracy of the estimates, which is why I asked my original question.

After seeing your response just now I found their "generous assumptions".  Thanks for pointing that out...I had not looked at them before.  Pasted below for reference.  I'm pretty close to 1,000 ft elevation and am nearly always on firmer fairways.  And I'm a sucker for hitting it long, so my on-course swing is probably too hard...anyway, my estimated distance is pretty close to what I actually get.  So considering all of the factors, both make sense.   

I appreciate the insights!

 

For the Distance Potential metric, we use the following:

90° F temperature

1,000 ft. elevation

Total distance (carry + roll)

Moderately firm fairways

Neutral Angle of Attack

Optimized launch conditions (club fitting efficiency)

2019 ProV1x Ball

[Paco Chan]

Quick update as I'm now a little more than half-way through the second programme (Neural Drive). Speeds continue to go up and I am seeing the delta on the course as well. At the beginning of Neural Drive, I felt that the speed gains in the app weren't really translating on the course (from ~201m off the tee to ~207m). Then suddenly around session 6 or 7 of the Neural Drive programme and my distances have jumped significantly. Now, my minimum off the tee is 210-215m, and I'm regularly getting 230-240m when everything syncs up nicely.

For those who are wondering why they're plateauing, just hang in there and keep on working on it. Building strength takes time. Your body then needs time to figure out how to utilise that strength, so that takes additional time to sync everything up in your swing. The one thing my coach constantly reminds me is that even though I'm stronger, I CANNOT go out on the course and try to murder the ball. Continue to make your "normal" swing, and let the new strength and speed take care of itself.

Sharing the results of the Foundation programme and the Neural Drive programme (everything now normalised to MPH since I'm the only idiot using KPH on this forum ) :

I saw some comments about losing speed and then feeling like they couldn't hit a previous personal best, so I've graphed out the 2 programmes together in a line chart for easy comparison. (I've also added the trendline to help folks see the progress without the whiplashy noise).

Finally, I wanted to add my vote to the discussion around warming up prior to doing your Stack session. It is SOOOO critical that you get your body warm before you start swinging. @NB54 and @Hacker60521 said it best - you don't have to follow their warm-up routine, but please make sure your muscles are warm to avoid injury. For me, there are 3 areas that hurt the most after a session if I haven't done a full warm-up, and now I make sure I give those 3 areas extra TLC before I start my session: 

• thighs and outer thighs (squats/lunges help warm these up, and knee-hugging stretches them out)
• neck (head rolling and looking left-right help stretch and warm up the neck)
• upper back/shoulders (the Stack has a great swinging hug drill that I found really useful, especially the part about changing the angle of your arms)

Hope these real life data points help anyone who's quietly wondering whether or not the system helps. But like any workout programme/tool, you gotta stick with it!

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Paco Chan

[Paco Chan]

5 hours ago, Paco Chan said:

For those who are wondering why they're plateauing, just hang in there and keep on working on it. Building strength takes time. 

Sorry, I remembered a series of short videos from a golf strength coach I follow named Mike Carroll, who runs the Fit for Golf online training program.

He recently shared in a blog post that he was also plateauing and incorporated a bunch of new exercises specifically meant for increasing swing speed. You can refer to the post here.

Enjoy! 

[WaffleHouseTour]

I’ve been at this since February and finally hit my goal for the year - progress check this weekend was 100 mph.  Can’t wait to see what I can do by the time the snow melts in the spring.

 Lots and lots of days with seemingly no progress.  I know I have some swing faults that rob me of speed. But progress is progress. 
 

the one thing I’m going to do different over the winter is incorporate some light weight circuit into my regular exercise routine.  Elliptical machine and yoga have been my healthy habits but time for a little more to fight off Father Time. 

[Jlocke22]

27 minutes ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

I’ve been at this since February and finally hit my goal for the year - progress check this weekend was 100 mph.  Can’t wait to see what I can do by the time the snow melts in the spring.

 Lots and lots of days with seemingly no progress.  I know I have some swing faults that rob me of speed. But progress is progress. 
 

the one thing I’m going to do different over the winter is incorporate some light weight circuit into my regular exercise routine.  Elliptical machine and yoga have been my healthy habits but time for a little more to fight off Father Time. 

That’s awesome! Of course some deadlifts and squats would be great but can get some extra work in with bands, med ball, and some dumbbells. I added some pictures below from recent studies + speed training process flow. I would definitely explore some weighted jumps, depth jumps, box jumps, jump progressions, various med ball throws, and other ballistic/high velocity work. Helped me definitely push through some plateaus 

[WaffleHouseTour]

23 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

I would definitely explore some weighted jumps, depth jumps, box jumps, jump progressions, various med ball throws, and other ballistic/high velocity work.

I wish I could do those but I had my hip replaced a year ago.   On the Doctors “do not do” list - no running, no jumping and a couple of restricted yoga poses. Nothing that causes additional pounding on the hip socket.  I understand why the explosive nature of those jumps is beneficial but I gotta make this joint last.  So I have to find other reasonable alternatives. 

[DaveP043]

Back for another update, now I've finished 16 sessions of the Foundations program.  My 195g speed is up about 6 mph from the Baseline, the eSpeed is up by a similar amount, and I continue to set personal bests in both heavy and light weights, even though my 195g speed is been steady.  But yesterday I really saw the difference on the golf course.  IT was a little chilly, a light breeze, and I did a Stack session before heading to the course.  Well, out of 11 drivers I hit, 6 were further than I've been all year.  Change comes slowly, a random long drive can happen based on wind, hard fairways, accidental solid contact, anything, but when over half of the drives are the longest of the year, I have to believe its REAL distance gains.

I have two more sessions to finish the Foundations program, probably Tuesday and Thursday this week.  After that I'll probably take a while before starting a new Program, I'll be spending 2 weeks in Pinehurst.  What i WILL do is the short "Speed Priming" sessions as often as I can before I play.  There's no question that doing Stack properly is a good bit of work, but there's also no question in my mind that its improving my distance.

[Jlocke22]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:17 AM, WaffleHouseTour said:

I wish I could do those but I had my hip replaced a year ago.   On the Doctors “do not do” list - no running, no jumping and a couple of restricted yoga poses. Nothing that causes additional pounding on the hip socket.  I understand why the explosive nature of those jumps is beneficial but I gotta make this joint last.  So I have to find other reasonable alternatives. 

Understood - you may be able still slowly strength train legs with some help without pounding your joints. Depending on strength level/gym setup may be able to utilize a smith machine as well instead of a barbell. Could do some weighted split stance squats heavy and also lighter at quicker intensities to work on impulse. You could also work on heavier/faster 1/4 squats (people will think you are "cheating" your lift at the gym) but just the 1/4 squat you can load heavier and move faster and not only build strength faster, but will be more confident in your stability, but replicate a similar loading your legs will go through a golf swing. 

I have had great success with RDL's/One Leg Landmine RDL's and Trap Bar Deadlifts

Rotational + Explosive - Med Ball Throws + Slams, Banded Rotational movements standing/kneeling/or slit stance. Cable Chops. Landmine rotational work

Then I would just add a pretty basic upper body program just to build a base with decent volume/explosiveness 

Awesome progress though! Will be interesting to see what you can get to with just adding some basic strength training into the mix. 

[Jlocke22]

@WaffleHouseTour been adding in some stretching or yoga classes on apps for “hamstrings and lower back” specifically, taking a page out of your book. Still pushing weights and going to start a different program next week with more volume/higher velocity to see if I can push past the plateau.

[bigteesgolf]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:37 AM, Paco Chan said:

Quick update as I'm now a little more than half-way through the second programme (Neural Drive). Speeds continue to go up and I am seeing the delta on the course as well. At the beginning of Neural Drive, I felt that the speed gains in the app weren't really translating on the course (from ~201m off the tee to ~207m). Then suddenly around session 6 or 7 of the Neural Drive programme and my distances have jumped significantly. Now, my minimum off the tee is 210-215m, and I'm regularly getting 230-240m when everything syncs up nicely.

For those who are wondering why they're plateauing, just hang in there and keep on working on it. Building strength takes time. Your body then needs time to figure out how to utilise that strength, so that takes additional time to sync everything up in your swing. The one thing my coach constantly reminds me is that even though I'm stronger, I CANNOT go out on the course and try to murder the ball. Continue to make your "normal" swing, and let the new strength and speed take care of itself.

Sharing the results of the Foundation programme and the Neural Drive programme (everything now normalised to MPH since I'm the only idiot using KPH on this forum ) :

I saw some comments about losing speed and then feeling like they couldn't hit a previous personal best, so I've graphed out the 2 programmes together in a line chart for easy comparison. (I've also added the trendline to help folks see the progress without the whiplashy noise).

Finally, I wanted to add my vote to the discussion around warming up prior to doing your Stack session. It is SOOOO critical that you get your body warm before you start swinging. @NB54 and @Hacker60521 said it best - you don't have to follow their warm-up routine, but please make sure your muscles are warm to avoid injury. For me, there are 3 areas that hurt the most after a session if I haven't done a full warm-up, and now I make sure I give those 3 areas extra TLC before I start my session: 

• thighs and outer thighs (squats/lunges help warm these up, and knee-hugging stretches them out)
• neck (head rolling and looking left-right help stretch and warm up the neck)
• upper back/shoulders (the Stack has a great swinging hug drill that I found really useful, especially the part about changing the angle of your arms)

Hope these real life data points help anyone who's quietly wondering whether or not the system helps. But like any workout programme/tool, you gotta stick with it!

 

 

Awesome writeup!  Thank you for sharing all of the details.  I saw a very similar plateau in Foundation, for about 2 weeks I couldn't seem to move the needle, and then all of a sudden everything jumped up.   It was frustrating during that period for sure, so simply doing a +1 on your sentiment to stick with it!  

[Hoyoymac]

After taking several weeks off due to some injuries I’ve done a couple of return to form workouts.  It is surprising and disappointing how quick you lose the gains of the earlier training.

 

[GolfSpy BOS]

2 hours ago, Hoyoymac said:

After taking several weeks off due to some injuries I’ve done a couple of return to form workouts.  It is surprising and disappointing how quick you lose the gains of the earlier training.

 

I'll agree with that!  I did 2 return to form sessions before kicking back in gear with the testers through foundations  and did find those 2 sessions were very useful to get back up to speed.  I felt like I was right back where I was for that third session to be part of my foundations program.

 

[edingc]

27 minutes ago, GolfSpy BOS said:

I'll agree with that!  I did 2 return to form sessions before kicking back in gear with the testers through foundations  and did find those 2 sessions were very useful to get back up to speed.  I felt like I was right back where I was for that third session to be part of my foundations program.

 

I will be doing my third session of Foundation tonight after taking a long break. Definitely lost a good amount of speed after I stopped swinging clubs everyday in October. Something like 6 MPH down from last winter's peak.

Hoping to be back into form here quickly.

[WaffleHouseTour]

How much variation do you all see from swing to swing in any given set?  In the final 195g I typically will see differences of 4-6mph from swing to swing.  Sometimes 10-12 mph.   Othertimes its just 1 or 2 mph difference.   But typically its 4-6 mph. 

I chalk this up to poor form, and swing mechanics more so than strength or speed.  A sudden throwing over the top for instance.  

[GolfSpy BOS]

Just now, WaffleHouseTour said:

How much variation do you all see from swing to swing in any given set?  In the final 195g I typically will see differences of 4-6mph from swing to swing.  Sometimes 10-12 mph.   Othertimes its just 1 or 2 mph difference.   But typically its 4-6 mph. 

I chalk this up to poor form, and swing mechanics more so than strength or speed.  A sudden throwing over the top for instance.  

I’d say I barely see more than 3 or 4 MPH variation in any given set if I’m properly warm.
 

If I’m able to really focus and go after it with good motivation I’ll sometimes see an increase in each swing.. say 100 to 101 to 102  but I don’t usually see big movement swing to swing unless I try something mechanically different to see what happens.

it’s not unusual for me to see the same speed or like all within 1 MPH for a set. 

[edingc]

14 minutes ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

I chalk this up to poor form, and swing mechanics more so than strength or speed.  A sudden throwing over the top for instance.  

With my Mevo+ I will sometimes see 4-6 MPH difference if, as you said, something goes awry with the swing. But generally within 1-2 MPH throughout, especially if I'm warm. That takes longer than it used too... sadly.

[Hoyoymac]

Did another return to form workout today.  Making progress but still behind where I was.

 

[Gregg in Dallas]

I have picked up about 10 mph with driver and I love it.  But I seem to have an anomaly. When I use the heavier weights (14 sessions into phase 2) 125 and above I am between 90th and 95th percentile.  But on weight under 125 I am 36-40th percentile?  Is this "normal"?  

[MrKSTOKES]

That's perfectly normal, everyone is different and is faster at certain weights than others, the app will probably pick up on this and start suggesting heavier weights for future programs 

[Josh Parker]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:22 AM, WaffleHouseTour said:

I’ve been at this since February and finally hit my goal for the year - progress check this weekend was 100 mph.  Can’t wait to see what I can do by the time the snow melts in the spring.

 Lots and lots of days with seemingly no progress.  I know I have some swing faults that rob me of speed. But progress is progress. 
 

the one thing I’m going to do different over the winter is incorporate some light weight circuit into my regular exercise routine.  Elliptical machine and yoga have been my healthy habits but time for a little more to fight off Father Time. 

Well Done!

[Hovland]

Short update from me. 

I completed the Foundation program late june this year with 9mph increase in Driver Speed from Baseline to Progress check (98 to 107). 

Decided to take a break for the rest of the golf season with the aim of starting up a new program when the courses closed for the winter. 

Had hernia surgery late october so had to rest for four weeks before I could take a new Baseline test and start a new program late november. Was somewhat surprised to see that I had not lost any speed since the progress check at the end of the Foundation program.

I have now completed 9 sessions on the Full Speed Spectrum. Have not seen any significant gains during this period. I started at 98 (Stack Speed), went up to 100 for a few sessions, but dropped back to 98 today. 

I've seen a few posts regarding the app's "Potential Distance" vs real distance with driver. I find these to be quite close. My current "Distance Potential" is 301 yards and on a Track Man "hit it" session on Sunday I hit one 290 yards which had a smash factor of 1.48 (so not perfect).

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Hovland

[jas0nmacisaac]

Has Sasho ever gone into detail as to what each phase of Foundation entails? What is the difference between Phase 2 and Phase 3? I've hit a little bit of a wall with 195g in phase two (115mph) and noticed the next workout is my first with 280g (I am weaker per percentile with heavier weights). I'm just hoping to hit where I was two years ago (195g for 122mph).

Are there any drills or band work that might help swing the heavier weights faster? I've touched 127 with 120, 130 with 100 and 134 with 80 so I feel I have the whippy quickness down.

Edited December 29, 2023 by jas0nmacisaac

[jas0nmacisaac]

Slightly off topic off product but has anyone tried a speed session with the Orange Whip, I was wondering what the max someone has been able to achieve by radar.

[Hoyoymac]

I’ve got the Lightspeed and just about every other Orange Whip product.

After my Stack System workout I make 5 step swings with the Lightspeed.  My fastest swing with it is 129 MPH using the PRGR.

[jas0nmacisaac]

51 minutes ago, Hoyoymac said:

I’ve got the Lightspeed and just about every other Orange Whip product.

After my Stack System workout I make 5 step swings with the Lightspeed.  My fastest swing with it is 129 MPH using the PRGR.

Have you tried the regular Orange Whip for speed? I can't remember my numbers but I remember it would put tremendous strain on my wrists and core to get it moving near/over 100 mph. I plan on trialing it out after my next session to see what I am at.

[Hoyoymac]

I use the standard Orange Whip to warm up for my swing speed training and prior to playing golf.  It is great for balance, swing sequence and tempo and to engage the bigger muscles due to it’s heavier weight.  

Full swings with maximum effort with the standard Orange Whip can be difficult for some due to the heavy mass of the head pulling them off balance.

The Orange Whip GFX fitness program in conjunction with the Orange Peel, the foot straps and the Power bands has been very helpful to me.

 

 

[jas0nmacisaac]

5 hours ago, Hoyoymac said:

I use the standard Orange Whip to warm up for my swing speed training and prior to playing golf.  It is great for balance, swing sequence and tempo and to engage the bigger muscles due to it’s heavier weight.  

Full swings with maximum effort with the standard Orange Whip can be difficult for some due to the heavy mass of the head pulling them off balance.

The Orange Whip GFX fitness program in conjunction with the Orange Peel, the foot straps and the Power bands has been very helpful to me.

 

 

Just tested out 6 max effort swings with the orange whip and I topped out at 112 and averaged 110.5. Certainly difficult and actually caused me to run out of energy for my stack session.

[jas0nmacisaac]

Something clicked today after a long lul, had the same Colin Montgomery takeaway I have been using but sped up the backswing. Seemed to create a better sequence.