NPG Episode 103: Why many professionals are leaving THIS job

[GolfSpy MPR]

Duration: 00:32:59

The golf industry is booming, but at what cost? Tony and Chris discuss the plight of the PGA professional and whether a paradigm shift is underway. And what's the deal with the PGA Championship and $18 for a mediocre (at best) beer?

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[JerBooth]

I'll speak to the beer.
The same thing happens at the Canadian Open especially if its at Glen Abbey or St. Georges.

If the people pay for the beer, they'll sell it for 18 bucks.

I wouldn't tho.

 

[bens197]

2 hours ago, JerBooth said:

I'll speak to the beer.
The same thing happens at the Canadian Open especially if its at Glen Abbey or St. Georges.

If the people pay for the beer, they'll sell it for 18 bucks.

I wouldn't tho.

 

Prevents people from becoming drunken slobs en masse. That’s it. That is the reason. 
 

As far as the Professionals go. It boils down to two things.

Do you want to spend every holiday and weekend away from your family for terrible pay?  

[bbigtigger]

This would have been the PERFECT episode to have Phillip on and give his feedback as to why he left the PGA Program and his experience.

 

[ChitownM2]

Is NPG no longer going to always have a video component to it?  I always watched on Youtube and was waiting for episode 100 for like a month only to see Episode 102 uploaded last week.  What's going on ?

[Golf2Much]

Very interesting podcast.  I was a member of a private club in Upstate New York about 20 years ago.  They had a big push to grow membership and ended up with a bunch of people that were "new-ish" to golf and certainly not familiar with a golf at a private club.  The one sin is slow play.  After one year, the average time to complete a round was up 15 minutes and over 4 hours.  That winter the Board created a speed of play and golf etiquette course that every golfer needed to complete before they would be allowed to play that Spring.  The lessons were simple:  stay up with the group in front of you, how to fix a ball mark on the green, where to park your cart greenside so you can go directly to the next hole, etc.  It worked as that Spring rounds were less than four hours and the course conditions actually improved.  People don't know what they don't know!

As far as course golf professionals, you were dead on.  Some of the most abused professionals that I know of.  They get it from all sides:  from Boards and/or owners down and inconsiderate members up.  There are other options for these dedicated people to pursue their golf dreams.  However, when you live and work in a somewhat remote area where there's only one course which is also a resort destination area, the abuse tends to be even prevalent.   For that reason, I always tip well, say "thank you" and support them anyway I can. 

This isn't a golf example, but it's a service industry example that correlates well.  We were traveling to Houston, Texas through a major hub on Christmas Day (when no one traveled that day).  We get to our hub and realize our flight was cancelled so we sought out the first customer service desk.  Being Christmas and a light travel day, there was only one open.  A couple that was on our plane made it to desk right before us.  They were told that a major ice storm on the East Coast lead to cancelled flights and planes were not in the right location.  The guy proceeded to rip this poor customer service rep a new one demanding that they be on the next flight to Houston.  The customer rep kept her cool, completed the transaction and handed him their tickets.  I stepped up and said "before we go any further, I have to apologize for the guy ahead of me.  It Christmas Day.  You don't want to be here and it's not your fault that the plane isn't here.  That was so wrong!"  She said thank you and where we were going.  I replied that we too were going to Houston.  She buried here head into the terminal screen and typed away.  After a few minutes she said here you go.  "I've upgraded you both to first class and here's a voucher for $35 to spend at the bar while you wait for the flight."  I thanked her and wished her a Merry Christmas.  Being first class, we boarded first.  As we were sitting having our welcome cocktail, we noticed the guy who threw a fit boarding and having his seat opposite the bathroom.   Karma!

Your advice off "Don't be a dick" was right on.  Not only at our favorite golf establishment, but in life too!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Golf2Much

[srhjacks]

I have a positive story. Several years ago my significant other and I had a membership at a small Indiana golf course owned by a PGA member and his wife. 
About halfway thru the season my GF was diagnosed with Ovarian cancer and couldn’t play.
At the end of the season the owner’s wife approached me and asked if I was going to rejoin. She said I’m going to bill you for a single membership but it will be listed as a couple. 
She also said anytime my GF wanted to just come watch me walk she could grab a cart at no cost. 
It was a gesture that probably cost them very little but it still means the world to me all these years later. 
 

[ParFore74x]

Not a bad episode. Like many other professions, PGA professionals are realizing that they are missing out on so many things in life while working long hours for mediocre pay. I wonder how often many of them even get out to play a round. I see the club pro at one of the munis that I frequent out chipping and putting quite a bit but other than that he’s behind the counter or giving lessons. 

[DiscipleofPenick]

I've met several pros that just don't play anymore, or play maybe half dozen times a year. When I was a caddy, the 3 pros always played with the members on Sunday mornings, but I'm not sure if this is common at clubs or not. I also think a lot of the burnout is from the private course pros vs. public or retail. At a private course pros are expected to be there 6 days a week from dawn till dusk. Then most clubs will have outings lined up on Mondays throughout the year so pros end up working a half day sometimes there to get everyone out.

It's similar at the course I frequent a lot where the pro is also the GM and he's there at least 6 days a week. But he doesn't really give lessons and only focuses on running the course. It's family owned so he does try to help them keep the costs down by working more himself and not overscheduling staff.  I would think that a pro at a local golf course would have more time to play and practice than the club pros. From what I understand most of their duties are on the administrative and budgeting side. If the pro runs a well funded muni with an established, well trained staff, I think that would free up some time throughout the week. 

The pros I worked with in retail loved it. They didn't have sales quotas to meet, club politics to deal with, they had 2 days off a week, and weren't so bored during the winter. Some of these guys had kept their games in shape and made sure they played in the section tournaments. I can't speak to driving range/practice facility pros, but I can see how it splits the difference between public and retail. You don't have a course to manage, so a lot of the admin stuff relates to inventory and that's handled in the offseason. If they're not doing a fitting or lesson, or repairing clubs, they may have ways to carve out time.

Another reason for burnout is that some of these guys got frustrated with their games as they aged and as family and pro shop hours ate into their time. These pros were the #1 guy on their high school team and played in college, they were not tour level, but very good sub-par golfers. Then the responsibilities came on and there went all their practice time and most of their play time. So now they maybe break 80 when they get to play. They know they could be so much better than they are and it's frustrating and depressing for them so they don't play.

Also here in Northern Ohio, there was a push from the section president to have all pros play in at least 3 tournaments per year. As it's been stated, these jobs don't pay great either, and there was a lot of push back from the pros. Why should they spend $100+ to play in a tournament they know they can't place in. There's a half dozen guys who win all the tournaments, so why throw the money a way on a donation. Those are the guys who are young enough, or lucky enough, to have the time to keep their games in shape.

[russtopherb]

I took lessons from a former club pro who had started out on the mini tours. He left golf entirely to go into telecom sales because he knew there was no way he could start a family with his long hours and low pay. So he went into sales and gave lessons on the side to support his wife & kids. He loves golf still, but quickly grew to hate working in it.

[Bears1]

Oh where to begin...

I'm retired and have been working in the Pro Shop at private club for the last six years.  Believe me when I say that our pro's clubs haven't left his office in the last three years.  Same goes for the 1st assistant.  Both are young guys that work 6 sometime 7 days a week when we host an outside tournament on a Monday when we are normally closed for maintenance.  No way are these guys getting paid a decent wage for the time they put in.  I'll also advocate for our Superintendent.  A thankless job most of the time.  Constant complaints from members; the greens are too fast, the greens are too slow, too soft, too firm, pin positions, etc.  Our Super does an excellent job and has a great crew.  Members fail to realize that things they want done to the course cost money.  Even hint at raising dues and all hell breaks loose.

A word about private club members.

Since covid, no surprise to anyone, our tee sheet is full from open to close.  Most members book their times using an on-line app up to 9 days in advance.  I can't tell you how many members book times and either don't show up or book for a 4some and show up with just one or two players.  These same membes will also ****** about not being able to secure a tee time...

On a Tuesday we'll get a call from a member that he has 7 friends coming to town on Friday and wants us to squeeze in two tee times for him.  Not going to happen.  Result, pissed off member who lets everyone know what dirtbags we are...

Or the guy who "used to be a member" that shows up expecting to play for free when he's playing with his member buddies..

The group of low handicap members that are playing behind a group of average players, who are on pace, constantly calling the shop for us to send someone to have the group in front "speed up"...

The guy who wants to go out and walk, by himself, to "work on his game" on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday during the middle of the day...  Not gonna happen. Result, pissed off member...

We have many female members.  Individually, all very nice women.  When playing in the weekly Ladies group or the Ladies Member/Member, it's always "oh I don't want to play with her, we don't get along"...

Oh, and the members who don't follow the "cart path only" rules...

And those that don't think they should have to repair ball marks or rake bunkers.  After all they pay dues to have that done for them...

We have approximately 420 members.  As you may well imagine, it's very difficult to keep the vast majority of them happy.  Each thinks the club should be set up in a certain way, their way, and when it's not...

There's not enough space here for me to relay all that goes on.  I certainly understand why becoming a golf pro may not be as appealing as it sounds.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Bears1
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