Changes Coming to the WM Phoenix Open - Your Thoughts?

[GolfSpy_KFT]

Reading through an article on ESPN this morning, and the Thunderbirds are already working on making some changes for the future of the WM Phoenix Open. 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39516315/phoenix-open-headed-change-saturday-incidents

In my opinion, they cannot make changes and improve that atmosphere quickly enough. I understand #16 is a rowdy hole, I think there is a place for it. What I do not think there is a place for is belligerently drunk fans impeding the playing ability of the field. Things have gotten more out of control with each year and it is more than due time for changes to be made and things to be reigned in. 

I am all for having fun, but there's a difference between going to an event to enjoy some of the best golfers in the world at their craft and drinking like you're 21 and on spring break in Panama City Beach. 

If that makes me a grumpy old man, so be it.

[ShimmyCocoBop]

I sent out an email to about 30 friends to see what their opinions were on "The People's Open" after Friday's round....

Comments I’ve received so far from friends whose opinions I respect & appreciate:

*Not a fan of drinking if you can’t handle your booze.  This is proof it’s not a gentlemen’s game anymore !!  

 

*Not a fan.  Other tourneys are trying to do it now. Cheapens the game.

 

*I think it is unneeded unless you are promoters for the tournament to get more people to come as well as watch it on TV

 

*Gone too far!

 

*Cutting off booze sales - "It will never happen until someone dies or is killed in a car accident if it hasn’t already happened. They should sell 2 beer tickets with each daily ticket."

 

*I don’t even watch that event because of hole 16. It is absolutely stupid in my opinion.

 

*Well, apparently liquor and sports is nothing original. So that begs the question which you came up with the other day with regard to the “future of golf”…Did golf become great because of (fill in the blank) drunk spectators at professional tournaments?

 

*One tournament a year, fine. Two tournaments a year, no.  (After Saturday’s round) - *Out of control!!!

 

*It’s sort of fun watching the idiots at the WM.  Sort of reminds me of my wasted college days.  Hope they keep it there.  I like traditional golf like the Masters.   

 

*Cutting off booze sales - "Interesting world.”

 

*I clicked on the link and it was followed by a clip of Zach Johnson telling some of the crowd to shut up , that he was sick of it.

 

*Cutting off booze sales - “Good."

 

*Yeah, you can keep this kind of tournament, it's ridiculous.  Not sure why everybody thinks it's so great.  Same with L#V golf to me, golf but louder?  Really?  Read a blurb that Rahm asked the crowd to quiet down on a par 3 tee, did he not know what he was getting into?  Haven't watched L#V, don't plan on it either.  I don't even like the music in golf carts now.  Guess I want to play golf to get away from all the noise. Guess I'm officially an old man now!

 

*Cutting off booze sales - "If they cannot stop stupid,  cut off the booze.   Good for WM.”

 

*FOG’s not so good for golf - “Agreed”

 

*On FOG fan behavior -   "Shooter McGavin : Yeah, everyone's coming around. Well I'm NOT DOUG! Happy Gilmore is destroying golf. I saw two big fat naked bikers, in the woods off seventeen having sex. How am I supposed to chip with that going on? You've got to kick him off the tour.”

 

*On Golf Channel’s GOLF TODAY Show, even Hal Sutton basically called The Peoples Open a $hit $how...

 

*These pretty much reflect the conversations I had with my local buddies over the weekend.  It is (was) fun for the novelty of it once a year.  They went too far this year with fans booing (in some cases good shots) all over the golf course.  They absolutely have to put an end to throwing $hit from the stands...there is nothing cute about people getting hurt....etc.   I was there a couple of years ago (in a suite on 16) and witnessed all the drunks and people being hauled out all afternoon.  One of my good friends was just there this week.  We both agreed...don't need to see it again.  Leave the shenanigans to L#V

 

*Dave, I don’t think you would believe this but I played that hole years ago. I think the crowd who saw Tiger Woods hole-in-one is not like the crowd that we saw this past weekend. Like everything else these days it’s all about money.

 

*Yeah, most don't like booze/sports.  They ought to have cages, like there is for people who smoke at airports, where the drunks can throw beer on each other and yell, "eff you!"   Have the huge cages on either side of the fairway, outta sight of the players except when they pass enroute to the green where the drunks can boo'm for bad shots.  

 

* I HEARD IT REFERRED TO AS THE “ WASTED MANAGEMENT “PHOENIX OPEN.

[StrokerAce]

*changes .... 

used to be fun to watch when they had the caddy races and such. has turned into an abomination. I don't think it makes you a 'get-off-my-lawn' type if you think this. Every other tournament can manage itself properly. Videos of fans fighting? Seriously? 

[billpierce]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_KFT said:

Reading through an article on ESPN this morning, and the Thunderbirds are already working on making some changes for the future of the WM Phoenix Open. 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39516315/phoenix-open-headed-change-saturday-incidents

In my opinion, they cannot make changes and improve that atmosphere quickly enough. I understand #16 is a rowdy hole, I think there is a place for it. What I do not think there is a place for is belligerently drunk fans impeding the playing ability of the field. Things have gotten more out of control with each year and it is more than due time for changes to be made and things to be reigned in. 

I am all for having fun, but there's a difference between going to an event to enjoy some of the best golfers in the world at their craft and drinking like you're 21 and on spring break in Panama City Beach. 

If that makes me a grumpy old man, so be it.

I couldnt agree more.  The costumes and silliness doesnt bother me - have fun. But loud, drunk, rude fans keep that in other sports.

[billpierce]

1 hour ago, ShimmyCocoBop said:

I sent out an email to about 30 friends to see what their opinions were on "The People's Open" after Friday's round....

Comments I’ve received so far from friends whose opinions I respect & appreciate:

*Not a fan of drinking if you can’t handle your booze.  This is proof it’s not a gentlemen’s game anymore !!  

 

*Not a fan.  Other tourneys are trying to do it now. Cheapens the game.

 

*I think it is unneeded unless you are promoters for the tournament to get more people to come as well as watch it on TV

 

*Gone too far!

 

*Cutting off booze sales - "It will never happen until someone dies or is killed in a car accident if it hasn’t already happened. They should sell 2 beer tickets with each daily ticket."

 

*I don’t even watch that event because of hole 16. It is absolutely stupid in my opinion.

 

*Well, apparently liquor and sports is nothing original. So that begs the question which you came up with the other day with regard to the “future of golf”…Did golf become great because of (fill in the blank) drunk spectators at professional tournaments?

 

*One tournament a year, fine. Two tournaments a year, no.  (After Saturday’s round) - *Out of control!!!

 

*It’s sort of fun watching the idiots at the WM.  Sort of reminds me of my wasted college days.  Hope they keep it there.  I like traditional golf like the Masters.   

 

*Cutting off booze sales - "Interesting world.”

 

*I clicked on the link and it was followed by a clip of Zach Johnson telling some of the crowd to shut up , that he was sick of it.

 

*Cutting off booze sales - “Good."

 

*Yeah, you can keep this kind of tournament, it's ridiculous.  Not sure why everybody thinks it's so great.  Same with L#V golf to me, golf but louder?  Really?  Read a blurb that Rahm asked the crowd to quiet down on a par 3 tee, did he not know what he was getting into?  Haven't watched L#V, don't plan on it either.  I don't even like the music in golf carts now.  Guess I want to play golf to get away from all the noise. Guess I'm officially an old man now!

 

*Cutting off booze sales - "If they cannot stop stupid,  cut off the booze.   Good for WM.”

 

*FOG’s not so good for golf - “Agreed”

 

*On FOG fan behavior -   "Shooter McGavin : Yeah, everyone's coming around. Well I'm NOT DOUG! Happy Gilmore is destroying golf. I saw two big fat naked bikers, in the woods off seventeen having sex. How am I supposed to chip with that going on? You've got to kick him off the tour.”

 

*On Golf Channel’s GOLF TODAY Show, even Hal Sutton basically called The Peoples Open a $hit $how...

 

*These pretty much reflect the conversations I had with my local buddies over the weekend.  It is (was) fun for the novelty of it once a year.  They went too far this year with fans booing (in some cases good shots) all over the golf course.  They absolutely have to put an end to throwing $hit from the stands...there is nothing cute about people getting hurt....etc.   I was there a couple of years ago (in a suite on 16) and witnessed all the drunks and people being hauled out all afternoon.  One of my good friends was just there this week.  We both agreed...don't need to see it again.  Leave the shenanigans to L#V

 

*Dave, I don’t think you would believe this but I played that hole years ago. I think the crowd who saw Tiger Woods hole-in-one is not like the crowd that we saw this past weekend. Like everything else these days it’s all about money.

 

*Yeah, most don't like booze/sports.  They ought to have cages, like there is for people who smoke at airports, where the drunks can throw beer on each other and yell, "eff you!"   Have the huge cages on either side of the fairway, outta sight of the players except when they pass enroute to the green where the drunks can boo'm for bad shots.  

 

* I HEARD IT REFERRED TO AS THE “ WASTED MANAGEMENT “PHOENIX OPEN.

I thought the booing was awful, Unprofessional.  Shane hit a nice shot in and still got booing from the stands.  Uggh,

[GolfSpy_KFT]

And for what it's worth, I live in a state notorious for obnoxious, belligerent drinking. This is something I would expect to see at an event like Oktoberfest in La Crosse, WI. Not something I want to see on the PGA Tour. The fan fighting was RIDICULOUS. You don't even see that at Packers games where people get too full of alcohol. If you want to party like that, go to the bar. 

The argument with professional sports of "they get paid to play so should be able to withstand booing, loud noises, etc." is a tired one IMO. Fans across all sports have gotten so disrespectful to athletes and take it too far, and they are expected to just take it. At the end of the day they are there to do their job, regardless of if it is just playing a game. Let the pros go and harass those idiots in their place of work. I can imagine they wouldn't be so defensive of their behavior.

Not sure why but this one really has me worked up. Lol. Rant over...for now 

[Golf2Much]

As @GolfSpy_KFT, I live in an area known for drinking.  In Key West, it's all day, every day and during holidays like New Years is when the amateurs come out!  Unfortunately, most people don't take Dirty Harry's advice..."a man's gotta know his limitations!"

The fundamental disruptive nature of the Pheonix Open had been building for some time.  Alot of people, with alcohol that are somewhat encouraged to be more vocal than in other tournaments would have been bad enough and would have eventually overboiled into what we saw over the weekend.  What accelerated the bad behavior was the amount of rain (more than a year's worth the week before) gave spectators fewer places to watch and dramatically increased the density of people in any one location.  Throw that many people, with alcohol in a confined space and it's a recipe for disaster!  

I hope the organizers learn from this years' experience.   The article seems to state they already have.  Limit the number of people based on the availability of space, limit alcohol sales and enforce a little stricter code of conduct.  For once a year, I think the PGA Tour can endure a little more fun from a crowd that many would consider "unconventional."  The organizers just have to sure it doesn't go over the line and put the players, caddies and other spectators at risk.  

 

[jolter1]

After that display of alcoholics run wild, the tournament organizers had to do something. I am sure there was more than just Zack Johnson voicing about not returning for this event. I read an alleged Steve Elkington post in that players who play there expect the noise and such. What little I watched of the tournament it was more than just noise and such but was way over the top. But then again, welcome to the new PGATour and how they might be competing with LIV.

[downlowkey]

I had weekend tickets in 2014 and attended Saturday. Our group (all golfers, including 3 professionals) was there for a bachelor party. You don’t imbibe and get behind the wheel in Maricopa County, so we got shuttled around all 4 days using this pretty brand new app called Uber. On the ride to the drop-off area is where we first witnessed how fans pre-game this event. We drove past seemingly endless groups of ASU kids (and adults) passing gallon jugs of riot punch (Everclear + Blue Gatorade) amongst themselves as they stumbled from the parking areas to the front gate. Which brings me to point number one on excessive consumption at this event, a boatload of fans that walk through the gates are already completely loaded, so merely reigning in vendor alcohol sales will not entirely eliminate the problem.

Our tickets were waiting at will call, so we got there plenty early before gates opened with plans to watch as much golf as possible. For some reason they were having trouble locating our reservation so we had to sit tight for ~45 min while that situation was hashed out. This is where we got to witnesses what @Golf2Much referenced about a large group of completely inebriated people in tight quarters. That year, ticketed patron lanes (maybe 16 wide) all funneled through the giant merch tent and two equally wide egress corridors ran down each side of the big tent for crowds exiting the event at the end of the day. Well the combination of ~30,000 totally inebriated people showing up before the gates opened (they all want a seat at hole 16 and will sprint there once they’re through the gate) and insufficient ticket lanes quickly led to a powder keg scenario.

Law enforcement had elevated positions all around the entry corridor perimeter and I had taken up residence in the shade of one of their perches while we were waiting for the wil call problem to get sorted. The friendly officer who I had become casually acquainted over the past half hour had become quite tense. I remarked that the scene we were witnesssing was getting kinda nuts. Without taking his eyes off the crowd, he said “Yeah, this is a really bad situation. We’re about to open all the patron corridors and just let everybody inside. You guys don’t need to wait for your tickets anymore. Get ready because it’s about to get crazy.” At the time, this was announced as the single day attendance record for a PGA Tour event and now you know why they used the term “estimated”. The next five minutes was a sh*tshow running through what was originally intended to be an exit with tens of thousand of drunk people, all singularly focused on getting to hole 16 as fast as possible. We just wanted to go to the range and find a good pairing to follow around.

We all made it inside without getting trampled and eventually found one another. Great - we’re alive, it’s a beautiful day and now we get to enjoy some great golf as part of our dear friend’s bachelor sendoff weekend. Wrong. The reminder of the day was not the least bit enjoyable as a golf fan. For starters, we were in the minority of people that seemed to understand golf tournament patron behavior expectations. For example, when volunteers held up their “quiet please” signs, people seems to take it as their last opportunity to cause a disturbance. The same people didn’t even seem concerned with the golf being played until those moments just prior to a player making a stroke, as they were preoccupied with hurling insults at one another regarding personal perceptions of a stranger’s outfit, haircut, girlfriend rating, etc. There was belligerent behavior everywhere you turned and god forbid you made eye contact with someone feeling chippy.

Because it bears repeating, we were there to cut loose a bit for a bachelor party but grew weary enough of that scene after only a few hours the we decided to leave early and just go wait (for hours) for the Weezer concert venue gates to open. To be abundantly clear, a group of golf fanatics who traveled from all over the country to watch the best players in the world compete, chose to stand around doing nothing at the opposite side of the property rather than be in the midst of all the obnoxious behavior on the course. We decided to skip the tournament entirely on Sunday and played a round at the Biltmore instead. That was a decade ago and things seem to have only gotten worse.

The Thunderbirds have raised over $170 million dollars for the greater Phoenix community and that’s laudable, but I do not believe that is reason enough to forgive that they knowingly raised Cain while raking it in. Chance Cozby’s outfit change from velvet leisure shirt and Mardi Gras beads in the broadcast booth this past Saturday to that more befitting an executive director of a giant non-profit organization in deep sh*t during his public statement Monday following the weekend debacle did not go unnoticed by me. My guess is that the organization is facing litigious service on multiple fronts from attendees that were either injured or assaulted by individuals that had been grossly over served by vendors. And if the Thunderbirds don’t have one helluva understanding insurance policy, the funds they have to dole out to the community this year are likely going to take a hit.

The behavior they have encouraged at this golf tournament for the past decade is absolutely shameful and in no way have they fostered an environment safe for women or children. Taking the event away from the Thunderbirds would be a good start. Announcing that a requirement for entry next year is passing a breathalyzer with those failing going straight to the tank for public intoxication is the only way I can see them putting a stop to the pregaming problem.

I’ve heard the name Wasted Management quip before but Mis-Management would be more appropriate. It’s a bad look for Phoenix, the PGA Tour and Waste Management. And now you also know that the announcement that this was the first year they had to “close” the gates is hardly the whole truth about the problems they’ve had at the gates in the past.

I attended the Masters two months later. You wanna talk about opposite ends of the experience sprectrum. We showed up when the gates opened and enjoyed every well behaved moment, right through the evening agronomy ballet and I’ve dreamed about returning ever since. I’m neither a prude nor a staunch traditionalist, but I’ll take what the Masters is promoting all day over the methods that the Thunderbirds are employing to give their event an identity. The WM Phoenix Open is the last event that other groups should be holding up as an example to adopt.

Edited February 13 by downlowkey

[GolfSpy_KFT]

3 hours ago, Golf2Much said:

For once a year, I think the PGA Tour can endure a little more fun from a crowd that many would consider "unconventional."  The organizers just have to sure it doesn't go over the line and put the players, caddies and other spectators at risk.  

 

Norm, totally agree with this statement. I am OK with a more unconventional approach than your typical tournament for the WM. It just needs to be better controlled, which it sounds like it will. I loved the caddie races on 16. Don’t mind players having fun with it a la Joel Dahmen. The excessive over drinking and blackout drunk state of spectators has no room for ANY professional sport IMO. I truly hate that. 

[Brycwade]

It is definitely time for some changes. I believe I saw a stat that said they had upwards of 50 arrests this weekend, that is unacceptable. I am all for having a good time, believe me, but some of the videos of the patrons stumbling around and fighting are downright embarrassing. I think "grow the game" is a great initiative and we should all look for ways to make that happen. I do not think we should be growing the game in this way, though. 

[fixyurdivot]

I attended for the first time last year on Thursday and told myself it was the last time.  Because one of the guys we went with had recent back surgery and couldn't walk the course, I didn't get a chance to really experience the rest of the track.  So, I went on Friday this year... and that was my last time.  Even free tickets with lunch won't do it.

The event is a complete $***S*** and at least 600,000 of the record setting 720,000 attending did so for something other than golf.  I posted my experience and some pictures in The Good Morning thread last week.  In addition to my personal preference of not having to watch and listen to intoxicated people, the event is simply oversold and too rowdy.  I saw two different people throwing up and a girl that looked completely wasted being attended to by police/FD.  I was able to get some refuge from the insanity at The Patriots Outpost/Tent hospitality suite.  Drunk and disorderly earns you a one way trip to the exit.  And, it's no longer just hole #16.  They have added grandstands on both sides of #17 essentially making it a mess.

My neighbor and I attended the Charles Schwab Cup Championship at Phoenix CC this past fall and that was pure delight and, at least for this grumpy, semi-old man, professional golf that I grew up watching. We'll definitely attend that one again.

Part of me really dosen't care whether they make changes to the WM or not.  In some ways I see it a great reflection of the feral mankind we've created.  They must be making a king's fortune and we all know how key economics are in professional sports these days.  Clearly there is a sector of patrons (golf interested or otherwise) that like this environment.  I say double down and continue to grow their experience.  I might watch from the safety of my home.