The Tiger Woods affect on Etiquette

[David Staller]

Good morning spies,

First of all, I want to say right up front that I have been a huge Tiger fan since he was a kid. There is one huge drawback to having the huge influx of new golfers. It is that so many of them saw Tiger, thought he was cool, went and bought some clubs, and headed to the course with no understanding of the rules, etiquette, or traditions of the game.  Prior to Tiger's emergence, we were introduced to the game by someone who taught us these things right away. What I started to notice immediately, was the lack of fixing divots and ball marks and driving golf carts where you are not supposed to. It continues to this day, even at private clubs. I grew up on muni courses in the Los Angeles area in the late 70's. Rarely, would I see more than 2 unrepaired ball marks on a green. Now, it is not uncommon for me to walk onto a green and see 20+ unrepaired marks, even ones right next to the hole, and I am a member of a private club.   If you have noticed this as well, I would love to hear some ideas about how we can educate people about this.

[Hacker60521]

@David Staller you’re raising a really interesting point. The notion of etiquette weaves through a lot of threads —such as music on the course, pace of play, etc.  Funny you should mention ball marks on the green. I noticed that where I play has had a lot more marks than I’m used to seeing. What’s worse is now I’m seeing putter marks where people drag their club along on the green, scuff marks where folks aren’t picking up their feet when they walk. My “favorite” was when a guy tossed aside the flagstick like it was a javelin. That left a heck of a mark  

My approach has been more leading by example than anything else. So anytime I’m on the green, I’ll repair my mark and one more. Same idea around pace of play. If I need to I’ll “confirm” we’re playing ready golf, and I try to be within one or two strokes of the group in front of me.  
 

That said, I’m also not shy about being a bit more agressive. Mostly, if I’m playing as a single, and I’m behind a slow playing foursome and there are open holes ahead if they don’t offer to let me play through I won’t be shy to ask.

[Rick Bouchard]

The amount of ball marks is definitely on the rise where I play. It's a big pet peeve of mine too. Your take on this has merit, etiquette is missing in a lot of today's amateurs. I wish the clubs would address players repairing them more than just a poster at a urinal! 

I'd volunteer to be "ball mark" police for free! REPAIR or LEAVE.

 

[David Staller]

I'm right with you on that.  I brought the idea up about having regular etiquette workshops at my club, but it was poo pooed.

[Hacker60521]

@Rick Bouchard and @David Staller my club assigned a hole to each golf member where we’re supposed to repair at least one divot in addition to ours, and there is a reminder tag inside our lockers. I have no idea if anyone follows this rule, but it’s a nice reminder to take care of the course. 

[elight]

One time I said snidely, not realizing it was snide as it came out of my mouth, "I'm going to repair these marks, because I have to play here again." The guys in my group were from out of town and didn't seem to care about the condition of the green once they stepped off it. 

[Shapotomous]

27 minutes ago, elight said:

One time I said snidely, not realizing it was snide as it came out of my mouth, "I'm going to repair these marks, because I have to play here again." The guys in my group were from out of town and didn't seem to care about the condition of the green once they stepped off it. 

I dont think that was snide at all.  That is the approach i take as well, fixing at least 5 on each green so the greens are nice for the next round. 

[Hacker60521]

@elight I totally agree with @Shapotomous  Fixing ball marks or telling others you’re going to do it isn’t snide at all. It’s such a simple and low effort thing for any golfer to do and helps maintain the greens.

[elight]

Hack It Out golf podcast had an episode that addressed this recently. Some of the theories as to why people don't repair pitch marks were, IIRC: a) newer or casual golfers who were never taught in the first place; b) people who hit so few greens that it's not part of their routine when they do; c) people who don't know where to look for their pitch marks and can't find them.

[NM01]

On 7/22/2024 at 8:48 AM, David Staller said:

Good morning spies,

First of all, I want to say right up front that I have been a huge Tiger fan since he was a kid. There is one huge drawback to having the huge influx of new golfers. It is that so many of them saw Tiger, thought he was cool, went and bought some clubs, and headed to the course with no understanding of the rules, etiquette, or traditions of the game.  Prior to Tiger's emergence, we were introduced to the game by someone who taught us these things right away. What I started to notice immediately, was the lack of fixing divots and ball marks and driving golf carts where you are not supposed to. It continues to this day, even at private clubs. I grew up on muni courses in the Los Angeles area in the late 70's. Rarely, would I see more than 2 unrepaired ball marks on a green. Now, it is not uncommon for me to walk onto a green and see 20+ unrepaired marks, even ones right next to the hole, and I am a member of a private club.   If you have noticed this as well, I would love to hear some ideas about how we can educate people about this.

Considering I see it from people who were playing golf before the tiger effect I don’t think it has as much to do with him and bring fans to the game.

There is probably more of a pandemic effect on overall poor etiquette than from Tiger.

 

[Hook DeLoft]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:13 AM, elight said:

Hack It Out golf podcast had an episode that addressed this recently. Some of the theories as to why people don't repair pitch marks were, IIRC: a) newer or casual golfers who were never taught in the first place; b) people who hit so few greens that it's not part of their routine when they do; c) people who don't know where to look for their pitch marks and can't find them.

Plus, you know, jerks.

[scbelowpar]

I don't think Tiger's influence on golf caused the poor etiquette issues we are seeing.  Although he certainly could have done a lot to help educate people on proper etiquette.

I've been playing golf for 54 years, on both private and public courses and I see poor etiquette across the board.  And ironically enough, I mostly see it with older players.  They drive the carts where ever they want to (excuse is I am old and can't walk very far), they take their time playing golf (have nothing else to do so why not turn a 4 hour round into a 6 hour round), they play cart golf (everyone drives to the first player's ball, then drive to the next, etc., etc. instead of playing ready golf) and they never fix ball marks as they didn't make any of them so why should they.

As for the younger players, I think they were never taught proper etiquette by anyone and they view the course is one giant playground.   If instructors would add some etiquette lessons while teaching golf swing, I think that would go a long way.  On an interesting side note, I volunteered at one of those youth organizations that purport to teach golf and life lessons and not once did I ever see the kids being taught how to actually play golf on the course.  All the organization would do is set up fun games for the kids on the putting green or driving range.  I'm not against fun games but make the games informative.  

[stephenmatt]

This is somewhat surprising to me as I am also a member at a private club and honestly rarely come across a divot that was not repaired. This is probably something that your club needs to enforce. Honestly, I am surprised they haven't already.

[Brooky03]

More play = more ball marks.  There does exist the possibility that the percentage of golfers who don't repair ball marks hasn't increased much, but the number of golfers playing has.

Better irons for bad golfers could also contribute to more ball marks, total, repaired or unrepaired.  Previously, bad golfers would hit irons lower, without a lot of spin.  Those types of shots were less likely to make a ball mark when they landed.  Irons have gotten much better at helping bad golfers hit shots much higher, with steeper descent angles.  Those shots are going to be more likely to mark up the green.  So, perhaps some golfers weren't apt to fix their ball marks but they weren't making many ball marks to begin with.  Now, those golfers are no more likely to fix their ball marks, but they're making more ball marks.

[Warrior42111]

Well I think that are a lot of factors at work.

First many new players are either not taught by anyone like others were, or even worse they are taught wrong. Side note I part time coach football and it's best when possible, to not only do an action but why they do it, understanding is key to retaining. Applies to golf as well. 

Next is the overall changing of times, certain etiquette things stand divots, ball marks etc. But others are constantly changing, music, clothes etc. What is acceptable to one person or course isn't at another.

Finally, and this is the biggest to me is how people in general have changed since 2020. It seems to me that all people across all generations are more about themselves and their opinions and anything else that is different is wrong.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[RyanGi]

On 8/9/2024 at 8:57 AM, Warrior42111 said:

 

Finally, and this is the biggest to me is how people in general have changed since 2020. It seems to me that all people across all generations are more about themselves and their opinions and anything else that is different is wrong.

This is what’s taught all across society now: YOU are  IMPORTANT. Which isn’t a bad concept in its own right, but it needs to be followed by ‘but not more important than anyone else’. The message was never supposed to mean that you’re better than others, only that you matter too. 
 

I’m all for supportive, positive self image, but when you only give people the cliffe notes or sound bites, and not the whole message, that’s what gets enacted. Just the short version which people seem to imply means they’re MORE important. 
 

YOU are important, but not more than anyone else. So do your best, be kind to everyone, and make the world around you a little better for others so they can enjoy it too. And fix your divots. 

[Brian A]

I don’t think it was Tiger. The pitch mark thing drives me nuts but when I was younger the pro I took lessons from said you always repair yours and one more, if you don’t make one, repair one anyway.  
 

I have noticed a lot more people are playing earlier than they should based on skill level without proper lessons (I.e. friend/parent/spouse) taking them out to learn on the course and they’re so focused on hitting the ball that they forget to teach the etiquette things. 

[bens197]

Entitled golfers existed prior to Tiger so while it’s convenient to consider this as a proximate cause, many golfers will always remain ignorant to their own actions. 
 

I played this week with dad and I’m not kidding when I say I repaired no less than 4-5 pitch marks per green on every green. It was obnoxious to the point where those we were paired with said “make sure you submit your time card after the round.”

Whether some don’t understand or don’t care, they’ll always exist. 

[Shapotomous]

Ball mark repair was an issue way back in the 70's too.  I worked at a club and found a sticker in one of the greenskeeper supply magazines that had a healing timeline for a repaired ballmark versus non repaired.  I got a couple stickers and put them various places.  The head pro thought it may be too in your face to the precious members.  But he changed his mind when he heard the club president say how much he liked it.  I cant say it changed much though.

[TJ Hall]

5 hours ago, Brian A said:

I don’t think it was Tiger. The pitch mark thing drives me nuts but when I was younger the pro I took lessons from said you always repair yours and one more, if you don’t make one, repair one anyway.  
 

I have noticed a lot more people are playing earlier than they should based on skill level without proper lessons (I.e. friend/parent/spouse) taking them out to learn on the course and they’re so focused on hitting the ball that they forget to teach the etiquette things. 

I was taught the same thing…yours plus one.  Still do it to this day.

Goal is to leave the course better than when I got there.

[Old New Golfer]

I don’t blame Tiger. Huge influx on everything. Many don’t care about ethiquette anywhere, anytime. Young people now who think they’re supposed to be demanding, rude, full of strife and conflict. They have been raised to be twice the servants of satan as their parents. 
Back 30 years ago. A fellow worker joined us playing golf. Another said he’s good. It was as if he had taken a golf class in school. He could pop the ball out there 200, maybe 220 yards. He thought he was hot. Tried to teach me that golf courses should be wide open. No sand traps, nothing. So he could score. Last time I played with him. He lunged at me to disrupt my swing. I walked off the course. Did that with a couple others at company tournaments. They didn’t give a darn about etiquette. 

[McGolfinTV]

On 7/30/2024 at 2:55 PM, scbelowpar said:

As for the younger players, I think they were never taught proper etiquette by anyone and they view the course is one giant playground.   If instructors would add some etiquette lessons while teaching golf swing, I think that would go a long way.  On an interesting side note, I volunteered at one of those youth organizations that purport to teach golf and life lessons and not once did I ever see the kids being taught how to actually play golf on the course.  All the organization would do is set up fun games for the kids on the putting green or driving range.  I'm not against fun games but make the games informative.  

I'll echo this. I attended the "golf summer camps" as a youth in the '90s. They were absolutely worthless. They didn't teach me proper swing mechanics. They didn't teach me course management or maintenance/etiquette. The highlight was when the pro hit the exploding golf ball to the delight of us kids. In hindsight I realize that the real goal was to drive additional revenue for the course by offering parents a place to drop off their kids for the day. 

I don't have a solution for public golf. But private clubs have the labor budget to simply make the issue moot. It's called a Pitch Boy. Just send a kid out there twice a day to fix all the pitch marks.