Everyone needs a stiff one these days(shafts of course)!

[Jonnythec]

I do a lot of buying and selling of clubs these days. It allows me to try out various clubs and if I really like them I do keep one occasionally and sell the old one I was using. But lately,every time I list a club for sale I'm inundated with people asking if it's stiff or reg flex. They all come back saying "oh it's regular flex, I need a stiff shaft". I ask them if there swing speed is over a 100 mph and they mostly say no. I think a lot of people out there are misinformed about shaft flexes and are probably using equipment that really isn't for them. Has any one else come across this before? Is your buddy with a 30+ handy really using stiff flex shafts on everything?

 

 

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[hckymeyer]

On the one hand I agree that a lot of folks are using clubs that don't fit them properly.

 

On the other hand you asking if their swing speed is over 100mph has pretty much nothing to do with whether they need a stiff or regular flex shaft either.

 

 

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[Rtracymog]

Considering 100 mph is where I start looking at an X flex, it's not the best question to ask. Guys want to play stiff because it's an ego thing for a lot of guys. I can't count the number of times I've had someone ask me if they should be using a "flex" shaft. Not to mention that there is no industry standard for shaft flexes. A DG R300 is going to play completely different from a KBS tour 90s.

 

 

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[MattF]

I'm at about 98 mph and was fitted to a stiff shaft for control...not all about swing speed.

[Liberty Ball Markers]

I'm mid 90's and play stiff shafts for control as well.

 

 

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[chershey]

I'm just curious as to why you don't list the flex when you put it for sale. Flex is one of the number one considerations for people when buying clubs. Now back on to the matter of Flex. I swing around 108 and use X-Stiff simply because it seems to help me prevent misses to the left. I go with stiff flex in my irons because it seems to fit me better. I agree with what everyone says in that flex is important but swing speed is not the only factor to consider.

[dru_]

I'll pile on. I've been fit 3 different times in the last 5 years. My first fit, I was put into an R, based upon swing shape and speed ( very long backswing, slow transition, low head speed at impact with a significantly positive angle of attack ).  The next fit was 2 years and a WHOLE lot of fitness later, and I was moved to a S (and still from graphite in my irons). What changed? short backswing, quick transition, swing speed was still under 100, angle of attack was neutral). 

Then this year, I got fit again. A lot more fitness again, but now in a mixed set of shafts, with X in the driver and woods, then S in the irons and wedges.  Again, what changed? (medium backswing, slow transition, negative angle of attack, swing speed at contact that is stupid from where I started). 

What I'm driving at, is that while swing speed certainly factors into it, there are several other variables that factor into it that the R versus S conversation is almost silly. Worse, generally speaking, adopting an R with a marginal swing speed, offers marginal distance gains, while potentially giving up significant left to right accuracy and consistency, whereas using an S  at that swing speed, is a known sacrifice of distance, but should increase accuracy.

[silver & black]

I haven't had my swing speed checked in a while. It used to be 105. I don't know if it still is.... I doubt it. I use S shafts more for control than any other reason.

[Liberty Ball Markers]

I'm just curious as to why you don't list the flex when you put it for sale. Flex is one of the number one considerations for people when buying clubs. Now back on to the matter of Flex. I swing around 108 and use X-Stiff simply because it seems to help me prevent misses to the left. I go with stiff flex in my irons because it seems to fit me better. I agree with what everyone says in that flex is important but swing speed is not the only factor to consider.

As an eBay seller, I can confirm - you can list flex, length, lie, loft, your 1st born, and who knows what else... someone will still ask because they won't read.

 

 

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[bobcat]

When choosing shaft flex, "It's not how fast you swing it, it's HOW you swing it fast".

 

[Jonnythec]

I always post a pic of the shaft on the part that has the specs..most people don't care to look.

 

 

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[desminat000]

So for my clubs you can have regular then up the scale it goes S100, S200, S300, then X100. S100-300 is stiff. The X100 are extra stiff. I got fitted with X100's because that's what I hit the best. My average swing speed with a 7 iron is 92mph. With my driver I have a totally different shaft but my average swing speed is 114mph.

 

 

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[Jonnythec]

A few people are saying that stiff shaft allows them more control. I dont know everything, but if that's a consideration I'll accept that. These forums are for learning more about the game and equipment.

 

 

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[Liberty Ball Markers]

Probably a timing thing that I could get used to with practice, but I get way out of sink with a regular shaft... but I can't see starting over just to coordinate with someones chart. Much like 'fitting' into cavity backs vs muscle backs depending upon your handicap. Just more rubbish that someone put on the internet and everyone started to believe.

 

 

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[Jmgonet45]

I do a lot of buying and selling of clubs these days. It allows me to try out various clubs and if I really like them I do keep one occasionally and sell the old one I was using. But lately,every time I list a club for sale I'm inundated with people asking if it's stiff or reg flex. They all come back saying "oh it's regular flex, I need a stiff shaft". I ask them if there swing speed is over a 100 mph and they mostly say no. I think a lot of people out there are misinformed about shaft flexes and are probably using equipment that really isn't for them. Has any one else come across this before? Is your buddy with a 30+ handy really using stiff flex shafts on everything?

 

 

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I see a lot of people commenting that a stiffer shaft gives them more control, but what about ball flight. I swing no faster than 110 with the driver and never over 92 with the irons and play a C-Taper 130g X in my irons and project x hzrdus black 6.5 in my woods and driver, I'm a high ball hitter, so in order to get my ball flight down, I was fit for those to get my ball flight to an appropriate shot window. I have a T-MB 3 iron that I just picked up that just has a DG s300 AMT shaft and the ball goes to the moon, it follows my natural shot shape, but it just flights too high. I'm in the process of trying to find a c-taper 130x in a 3 iron length so I can get the flight down....but I also don't play off of a 30 cap.

 

 

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[Jmikecpa]

Can't agree more that it is all about what fits the player.  I play X in my driver, fairway and hybrid since that is what fits me with my swing.  In my irons I play KBS Tour 90s hardstepped once and S200 in my wedges.  My driver SS is in the 116 - 118 MPH area so inherently one would not fit me into the shafts that are in my irons, but they work for me.

[Kenny B]

When I started playing golf 25 years ago, I was playing stiff shafts; swing speed was 102 but I had a hard time hitting a 100 yard wide fairway.  Now, I play regular flex and truth be told, I could probably play a senior flex.  I hit it pretty straight, but due to age my backswing is shorter and downswing is slower than it used to be.  I can hit a stiff shaft but I lose distance; I can hit a senior shaft but I don't have a major gain in distance and control is worse.  With practice maybe I might gain a little and get better control.  However, I like the feel of a heavier shaft and it's impossible to find a heavy, senior flex shaft so Regular it is.

[PlaidJacket]

I'm no shaft tech guy...

I don't really even care about shaft technology much. I play what works.

All of my irons are AeroTech i70-R. My 2014-SLDR is a stock Fijikura Speeder labeled S flex. My fitter tested it and said it's somewhere between an R and S flex. Slightly more butt stiff. Ok fine. This driver head and shaft combo has been a winner for me. My Wishon 4-wood has a Wishon R-flex shaft of some flavor. Again... works consistently well for me whatever the specs say about it.

I don't give a flip what all the mind-numbing shaft technology numbers/letters say or mean. If you're my fitter; help me select a shaft that works and I'm a happy camper.

[MGoBlue100]

Not to mention that there is no industry standard for shaft flexes. A DG R300 is going to play completely different from a KBS tour 90s.

 

 

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BOOM! There it is; no standardization. This is why it's SO important to be fit by someone who knows what they're doing. The last time I bought irons, we mixed and matched heads and shafts until we whittled it down to one combination. I tried hard to not even pay attention to what I was hitting, just ball flight, feel and distance. Only way, IMO.

 

 

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[jayjay0808]

There is so much more to fitting then just swing speed. Delivery of the club, how active your hands are, and how deliberate your tempo is, I can go on and on. But yes most people are playing clubs totally misfit for them. 

[BIG STU]

Considering 100 mph is where I start looking at an X flex, it's not the best question to ask. Guys want to play stiff because it's an ego thing for a lot of guys. I can't count the number of times I've had someone ask me if they should be using a "flex" shaft. Not to mention that there is no industry standard for shaft flexes. A DG R300 is going to play completely different from a KBS tour 90s.

 

 

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You nailed it dead on. There is so much variance between shafts of the same brand and flex stock un cut out of the box. A frequency machine or tuner will give you the facts. Like you said there is NO industry standard on what say for example a stock regular should check at. And never ever believe a shaft band. I have rolls of different bands. Supposedly there is someone on the net even counterfitting  DG Tour Issue decals. I do not know this for a fact I just have heard it. I also use a home made old school deflection board when I am checking something and can't get to my friend's shop to use his machine. I do not claim to know it all but usually I can swing and waggle a club and pretty much tell where the kick point and flex it is.

[BIG STU]

When I started playing golf 25 years ago, I was playing stiff shafts; swing speed was 102 but I had a hard time hitting a 100 yard wide fairway.  Now, I play regular flex and truth be told, I could probably play a senior flex.  I hit it pretty straight, but due to age my backswing is shorter and downswing is slower than it used to be.  I can hit a stiff shaft but I lose distance; I can hit a senior shaft but I don't have a major gain in distance and control is worse.  With practice maybe I might gain a little and get better control.  However, I like the feel of a heavier shaft and it's impossible to find a heavy, senior flex shaft so Regular it is.

Yep you are like me getting a "little long in the tooth" so to speak. As recently as 3 years ago I was playing stiff and more shafts. I changed the heavy stiff Brunswick 7,0s in my VIPs 2 years ago went to a set of DG S-300 high launch soft tipped. My fairways I was hitting the old UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff tipped and my driver I was hitting an rare experimental Creation. I switched this year my shafts are posted in my signature but they are all regular. I can go on the range and hit a few balls with even a X-100 now but that is it. I will start pushing the issue and start swinging long and hard and that throws me off balance bad.

 

I got a dose of reality this past summer when on vacation. I was playing a round with my wife playing my strictly vintage set. Now the irons came from my old man he got them new in 1962 and I have played them on and off all my life. They are old FC4000 Macgregors with the Pro-Pel 2 shafts which are heavy and stiff. After 9 holes I had gotten tired and absolutely could not get them through the ball the same for my beloved Penna persimmon driver with an early Aldila HM-55 graphite---- I am currently building another set of pristine 80 VIPs that a friend of mine on another site gave me and I am leaning towards a set of frequency matched Apollo regular shafts and I have been on the phone specing out a set that is soft tipped. 

 

I just turned 60 so my age is catching up some and I have had to get over the testorone thing and face reality that my days of stiff shafts in golf clubs is over

[BIG STU]

I'm no shaft tech guy...

I don't really even care about shaft technology much. I play what works.

All of my irons are AeroTech i70-R. My 2014-SLDR is a stock Fijikura Speeder labeled S flex. My fitter tested it and said it's somewhere between an R and S flex. Slightly more butt stiff. Ok fine. This driver head and shaft combo has been a winner for me. My Wishon 4-wood has a Wishon R-flex shaft of some flavor. Again... works consistently well for me whatever the specs say about it.

I don't give a flip what all the mind-numbing shaft technology numbers/letters say or mean. If you're my fitter; help me select a shaft that works and I'm a happy camper.

I will bet the farm on one thing knowing you over the years that if you put your clubs on the tuner that they will be in the range of 5 points or less from each other. That Speeder probably works well for you because it is butt stiff and has some kick at the tip. Some of the Wishon shafts have some kick at the bottom too

[chisag]

... I have read a few threads on other forums poo pooing expensive shafts. While not for everyone, and a less expensive shaft can fit a golfer very well, you get the exact frequency with any shaft of the same flex in say an AD-DI or Rogue Black/Silver. So while one inexpensive shaft will fit you, another may not. And of course torque, kick point, tip stiffness also make a difference as an r flex low torque stiff tipped shaft can play stouter than a high torque soft tipped s flex. 

... And how you swing is always more shaft dependent than how fast you swing. A short quick 95 mph swing may need x flex and a long flowing 100 mph may need r flex. Last year at 62 I was ready to move into a r flex, but the guys at the PGA Show Cobra booth said my carry distance was the same (a few r flex flew further) but my dispersion was greater with the R flex and I spun the ball more with an R flex resulting in my shortest drives, so they strongly recommended I stay with the s flex. I have a 100 mph swing with a smooth transition and felt like I got little more kick with the R flex but that was only feel, not reality. Get a good fitting and the answer is in the numbers.    

[Kenny B]

Yep you are like me getting a "little long in the tooth" so to speak. As recently as 3 years ago I was playing stiff and more shafts. I changed the heavy stiff Brunswick 7,0s in my VIPs 2 years ago went to a set of DG S-300 high launch soft tipped. My fairways I was hitting the old UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff tipped and my driver I was hitting an rare experimental Creation. I switched this year my shafts are posted in my signature but they are all regular. I can go on the range and hit a few balls with even a X-100 now but that is it. I will start pushing the issue and start swinging long and hard and that throws me off balance bad.

 

I got a dose of reality this past summer when on vacation. I was playing a round with my wife playing my strictly vintage set. Now the irons came from my old man he got them new in 1962 and I have played them on and off all my life. They are old FC4000 Macgregors with the Pro-Pel 2 shafts which are heavy and stiff. After 9 holes I had gotten tired and absolutely could not get them through the ball the same for my beloved Penna persimmon driver with an early Aldila HM-55 graphite---- I am currently building another set of pristine 80 VIPs that a friend of mine on another site gave me and I am leaning towards a set of frequency matched Apollo regular shafts and I have been on the phone specing out a set that is soft tipped. 

 

I just turned 60 so my age is catching up some and I have had to get over the testorone thing and face reality that my days of stiff shafts in golf clubs is over

Yep!  I'll turn 70 next spring.  I reshafted my Macgregors with the UST ProForce 95 regular flex, soft-stepped because I like a heavy shaft but steel is a little too heavy and hard on my joints.  I got a higher ball flight which I need, and they match my SCORs in feel and trajectory, as well as give me the correct gap between the Mac 8i and SCOR 42.  That was my main concern; the rest was gravy.  I like the performance of the ProForce shafts and I am considering them for my FW/Hybrids.

[SuperDave]

Makers Mark and Mt. Dew is the only stiff one I know I need. Shafts? I got to get fitted first.

 

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[djahubes]

Swing speed has little to do with required flex. There are so many variables that are more important. I swing my driver around 105-110 and was fit to a regular flex (tipped) oban devotion.

 

 

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[BIG STU]

... I have read a few threads on other forums poo pooing expensive shafts. While not for everyone, and a less expensive shaft can fit a golfer very well, you get the exact frequency with any shaft of the same flex in say an AD-DI or Rogue Black/Silver. So while one inexpensive shaft will fit you, another may not. And of course torque, kick point, tip stiffness also make a difference as an r flex low torque stiff tipped shaft can play stouter than a high torque soft tipped s flex. 

 

... And how you swing is always more shaft dependent than how fast you swing. A short quick 95 mph swing may need x flex and a long flowing 100 mph may need r flex. Last year at 62 I was ready to move into a r flex, but the guys at the PGA Show Cobra booth said my carry distance was the same (a few r flex flew further) but my dispersion was greater with the R flex and I spun the ball more with an R flex resulting in my shortest drives, so they strongly recommended I stay with the s flex. I have a 100 mph swing with a smooth transition and felt like I got little more kick with the R flex but that was only feel, not reality. Get a good fitting and the answer is in the numbers.    

I will agree with you and will add one thing that most miss. A lot depends on the club head design and COG. The reason I soft tipped my old irons is because of the design and stock lofts. I also added lead tape to weight them up some and that slows me down on the swing and keeps me with a even tempo it will also make an old muscle back blade iron "kick" at the bottom which is what I need. I also have stressed over the years that what works for me does not work for others. From being in the business on and off all my life I know how to fit myself but for those less fortunante you gave sound advice "get a good fitting and the answer is in the numbers"

[revkev]

I read that the answer was in the numbers. With all due respect I would say the answer is in the ball flight. Give me the proper ball flight and the numbers will match up.

 

Regardless the take a ways are, no industry standard, ss and flex needed are not exact because transition and release are important too, oh and we haven't even gotten into shaft weight much yet. That can have an impact also.

 

I'm with Plaid. I just want my fitter to find me something that works. By works I mean produces a a medium high draw as my primary ball flight with the long clubs and a nice medium and boring trajectory with lots of spin with the short clubs.

 

I pretty much have that through the bag right now. Except for 3 wood.

 

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[PlaidJacket]

... I have read a few threads on other forums poo pooing expensive shafts. While not for everyone, and a less expensive shaft can fit a golfer very well, you get the exact frequency with any shaft of the same flex in say an AD-DI or Rogue Black/Silver. So while one inexpensive shaft will fit you, another may not. And of course torque, kick point, tip stiffness also make a difference as an r flex low torque stiff tipped shaft can play stouter than a high torque soft tipped s flex. 

 

... And how you swing is always more shaft dependent than how fast you swing. A short quick 95 mph swing may need x flex and a long flowing 100 mph may need r flex. Last year at 62 I was ready to move into a r flex, but the guys at the PGA Show Cobra booth said my carry distance was the same (a few r flex flew further) but my dispersion was greater with the R flex and I spun the ball more with an R flex resulting in my shortest drives, so they strongly recommended I stay with the s flex. I have a 100 mph swing with a smooth transition and felt like I got little more kick with the R flex but that was only feel, not reality. Get a good fitting and the answer is in the numbers.    

I recently stopped into the Club Champion store in Austin, Tx to look around and visit with them a bit. Me and a fitter discussed a new driver scenario. I was asking questions about the process and cost, etc. At one point in the discussion I grabbed a head off the shelf and asked the fitter what this might cost me as an example. The fitter grabbed a shaft and said this combo would probably be about $600-$650. Wow! I recall the head being about +-$250? I asked how much for the shaft and he said $400'ish. He said it was one of the "top" shafts they have. Hmmm? I then asked him if there might be a $200 shaft that would be ideal/perfect for me. Sure he said. I then asked would by me paying another $200+ for the most expensive shaft guarantee me more yards and accuracy? No he replied.