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1 hour ago, Kansas King said:

SHHHHHHHH! If MGS tested them and they did well, Golfworks would be perpetually sold out of everything and prices would probably go up.

I do wish MGS added them to the testing. I suppose it could be Maltby not wanting to send clubs in for testing but I don't know. However, if MGS is willing to test Sub70, Ben Hogan, and all the other DTC companies, I don't know why Maltby couldn't be included. Especially since they offer assembly and pre-built sets with stock configurations. 

I would presume that an arrangement like that would have to be a 2-way street right? I would also gander that there might be some sort of contractual agreement that both parties would have to decide on due to reputations and monetary value of equipment being tested, etc.

In the year of the conspiracy.. My vote is that Maltby doesn't GAS. I only say this because I'd think that Maltby represents everything that MGS is all about right? Informing the consumer of all the unknown goodness in golf, as well as educating folks not to always buy into all of the OEM hype and pay high prices for stuff you can get at fractions that performs equally, if not better? 

So here's another one to add to the growing Maltby/MGS conspiracy bucket.. in the 2020 most wanted Player's Iron section on the home page, I left a comment.. something along the lines of "man it's too bad the Maltby TS1 wasn't considered because it would have knocked this test on it's rear". Well it went up.. stayed up for about 3 hrs.. and then disappeared. 

 

As a matter of fact, I'm saving a screen shot of this right now in the event that it goes missing in the next few hours.. (kidding).. or am I? 🤔🤫🤨

 

 

Edited by azstu324
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I’ve written on several posts that I’ve been interested in building a new set of irons this season. As it’s progressed, I pulled the trigger last week and went with a 4-GW setup with Nippon Modus 3 12

So I received the TS-1 last week Monday. However, living in Wisconsin doesn't allow for nice conditions this time of year. Anyway, the 7 iron is plus 1/2" and 1 degree upright which is per a fitting

You guys have probably seen me post in other threads so sorry for the repeat. Many people in underground component golf brand world don't realize that Wishon was an apprentice of Ralph Maltby back in

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30 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

I would presume that an arrangement like that would have to be a 2-way street right? I would also gander that there might be some sort of contractual agreement that both parties would have to decide on due to reputations and monetary value of equipment being tested, etc.

In the year of the conspiracy.. My vote is that Maltby doesn't GAS. I only say this because I'd think that 

I've always had suspicions (or conspiracy) that the mainstream golf companies don't want anything to do with Maltby's golf equipment. I've always wondered if the mainstream OEMs have leaned on MGS to not include Maltby in testing. However, my counter-point to that is Maltby doesn't want to be included because if their equipment doesn't test well, it could impact their group of cult-like fans that believe Maltby's equipment is better than anything else out there. My other theory is that Golfworks/Maltby supplies mainstream OEMs with designs/parts/etc. and has agreed to not supply their clubs for testing against other OEMs. 

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I would suggest persons interested in learning/identifying the GolfWorks to OEM realationships should read Ralph Maltby book, My Life in Golf. Lots of OEM Golfworks collaboration over the years. Its a pretty good read with examples that I think several post in this thread inquire about/suggest.

Regarding MGS testing Maltby/GolfWorks, its not like you go into a retail golf store and see Maltby TS1, TS2, etc lines (I would be in favor of this though). MGS tests clubs that are commonly available in retail golf outlets. Probably could test other brands/variants.

IMO those models (Gofworks/Wishon) are meant to be fitted/built to spec of the golfer interested. Note, I love Golfworks/Maltby and Wishon club heads. I just don't put them in the mainstream OEM category. I fit and build those fine brands more individually.

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6 minutes ago, aerospace_ray said:

I would suggest persons interested in learning/identifying the GolfWorks to OEM realationships should read Ralph Maltby book, My Life in Golf. Lots of OEM Golfworks collaboration over the years. Its a pretty good read with examples that I think several post in this thread inquire about/suggest.

Regarding MGS testing Maltby/GolfWorks, its not like you go into a retail golf store and see Maltby TS1, TS2, etc lines (I would be in favor of this though). MGS tests clubs that are commonly available in retail golf outlets. Probably could test other brands/variants.

IMO those models (Gofworks/Wishon) are meant to be fitted/built to spec of the golfer interested. Note, I love Golfworks/Maltby and Wishon club heads. I just don't put them in the mainstream OEM category. I fit and build those fine brands more individually.

 

42 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

I've always had suspicions (or conspiracy) that the mainstream golf companies don't want anything to do with Maltby's golf equipment. I've always wondered if the mainstream OEMs have leaned on MGS to not include Maltby in testing. However, my counter-point to that is Maltby doesn't want to be included because if their equipment doesn't test well, it could impact their group of cult-like fans that believe Maltby's equipment is better than anything else out there. My other theory is that Golfworks/Maltby supplies mainstream OEMs with designs/parts/etc. and has agreed to not supply their clubs for testing against other OEMs. 

Both excellent points.

@aerospace_ray wouldn't you agree though that DTC, non-big box, has been a major talking point for MGS in the past year or so? Brands like Sub70, New Level, Hogan (kind of), Vice, Snell, and quite a few others have been showcased here and with excellent reception. Is Golfworks/Maltby so much of a sub-category of DTC that they wouldn't be a homerun story to publish? Without having any hard proof at all, I'd still venture to say that Maltby has a bigger cult following than half of those aforementioned brands. I also think that's a big reason why a lot of those brands opt to be reviewed on sites like MGS.. because they know the audience here is more than just the casual golfer who only care to know about the top 5. Our minds are open, we are enthusiastic. Proud but still at ease to be humbled and educated. To me that is the perfect customer for these brands and Maltby should be no exception. Right?  

I'll definitely have to pick up that book. I know that both Ralph and Tom (Wishon) designed and built for some major players back in the 70's and 80's and may still have designs floating around the market today (another conspiracy). Any time I see praises for Wishon, I won't hesitate to let people know that he was an apprentice of Maltby before he moved onto Dynacraft and then on to successfully do his own thing. 
 

@Kansas King I think you could be onto something there with the idea that maybe because of Maltby/GW's ties and pretty much DNA imprinted in many OEM's designs and equipment supply, and not wanting to disturb any relationships, etc. 

 

Of course this is all conspiracy right? 🙂 If only we could construct some sort of bat signal-like contraption and Ralph Maltby himself could swoop in and answer all of our burning questions.. until then we're left to our own imaginations and conspiracies to distort what actual truths there might be. 😆

 

 

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20 hours ago, azstu324 said:

 

Both excellent points.

"@aerospace_ray wouldn't you agree though that DTC, non-big box, has been a major talking point for MGS in the past year or so? "

Absolutely and they should be. These companies provide us/the consumer with options that most likely can be much more expensive from major OEM's. Appreciate MGS giving visibility and testing these companies products.

"Brands like Sub70, New Level, Hogan (kind of), Vice, Snell, and quite a few others have been showcased here and with excellent reception. Is Golfworks/Maltby so much of a sub-category of DTC that they wouldn't be a homerun story to publish?"

Concur. Quality brands you reference, many with industry veterans and quality offerings. My only concern for some would be you may not be able to walk in a PGASS/DICKSG/etc and touch-feel-test --- maybe but not often (to date). Yes many have demo shipment options but even that may not influence consumers like going to visit a local big box golf store. But I have used demo test programs and been pleasantly surprised. 

"Without having any hard proof at all, I'd still venture to say that Maltby has a bigger cult following than half of those aforementioned brands. I also think that's a big reason why a lot of those brands opt to be reviewed on sites like MGS.. because they know the audience here is more than just the casual golfer who only care to know about the top 5. Our minds are open, we are enthusiastic. Proud but still at ease to be humbled and educated. To me that is the perfect customer for these brands and Maltby should be no exception. Right?  "

Agree Maltby has great following as does Tom Wishon (I am a Wishon disciple if you will 🙂 ). But I do my own fitting, learned through trial/error over 40 years of club making / fitting. I know my specs and that is why I guess I look at Maltby/Wishon/few others in different category. IMO both would be capable of producing quality off the rack clubs that are built to tight specs if their business models chose to do so. 

"I'll definitely have to pick up that book. I know that both Ralph and Tom (Wishon) designed and built for some major players back in the 70's and 80's and may still have designs floating around the market today (another conspiracy). Any time I see praises for Wishon, I won't hesitate to let people know that he was an apprentice of Maltby before he moved onto Dynacraft and then on to successfully do his own thing. "
 

Great questions/perspectives. Appreciate the comments. 

 

 

 

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Maybe a test comprising only DTC companies?  New Level, Sub 70, Haywood, Maltby, etc. Those companies might be happy to provide test clubs made to the testers’ specs. Worth a shot. 

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Maybe a test comprising only DTC companies?  New Level, Sub 70, Haywood, Maltby, etc. Those companies might be happy to provide test clubs made to the testers’ specs. Worth a shot. 

I am up for that. Who is going to fit us and do I get to keep the clubs???? Though it Probably is not practical to make 20 sets of clubs for the testers

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Was watching the TXG live from last week and Ian was asked if he would review Maltby. He said its just not popular enough to review, it is only benefit to a select group of club fitters. He also mentioned he is not a fan of designs and feels they they aren't "finished".

Sad to see since they do have an influence in the community especially with golf gear heads. Would be nice to give the Maltby a chance.

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44 minutes ago, pozzit said:

Was watching the TXG live from last week and Ian was asked if he would review Maltby. He said its just not popular enough to review, it is only benefit to a select group of club fitters. He also mentioned he is not a fan of designs and feels they they aren't "finished".

Sad to see since they do have an influence in the community especially with golf gear heads. Would be nice to give the Maltby a chance.

I was watching that as well. I get where they are coming from, but yes, it would be interesting to see them throw the TS1 and TS2 into their testing. But ultimately that is probably reliant on Golfworks/Maltby sending them heads to review, and so far I haven't seen much of an effort from them to get out into the "influencer" space.

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1 hour ago, pozzit said:

Was watching the TXG live from last week and Ian was asked if he would review Maltby. He said its just not popular enough to review, it is only benefit to a select group of club fitters. He also mentioned he is not a fan of designs and feels they they aren't "finished".

Sad to see since they do have an influence in the community especially with golf gear heads. Would be nice to give the Maltby a chance.

 

39 minutes ago, edingc said:

I was watching that as well. I get where they are coming from, but yes, it would be interesting to see them throw the TS1 and TS2 into their testing. But ultimately that is probably reliant on Golfworks/Maltby sending them heads to review, and so far I haven't seen much of an effort from them to get out into the "influencer" space.

Haha I was watching that too...😂

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16 hours ago, pozzit said:

He also mentioned he is not a fan of designs and feels they they aren't "finished".

So we are obviously all familiar with various Maltby Offerings right? I'm familiar with the TS-1 and DBM's. I know they're not all visual successes but no OEM has a 100% aesthetic success rate. Take the clubs that visually look the part and also are just home runs as far as playability go, i.e. PTM, DBM, TS-1, TS-2, TSW, KE4 woods, etc. are fit and finish really a problem when comparing each of these to OEM's? 

I did a comparison of the TS-1 in the "show us your Maltby" thread to the TM P770. IMO, I'm not seeing any missed steps in product quality. I actually like the look and profile of the TS-1 better and the P770 is a really nice looking club. Samesies with the TSW wedges. 

I'm guessing that with some of these guys it boils down to viewer ratings. If they're gonna put together a video, they're probably thinking more about maximizing their audience. Additionally, Maltby would need to have a need for the connection as I'm sure other OEM's are sending free gear to these guys to get some camera time. If Maltby isn't willing to form a partnership and provide clubs, and these Youtube guys aren't willing to fork up a few bucks to do a review that might get less action than an OEM review, it's a lose/lose. Definitely sucks

 

 

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1 hour ago, azstu324 said:

I'm guessing that with some of these guys it boils down to viewer ratings. If they're gonna put together a video, they're probably thinking more about maximizing their audience. Additionally, Maltby would need to have a need for the connection as I'm sure other OEM's are sending free gear to these guys to get some camera time. If Maltby isn't willing to form a partnership and provide clubs, and these Youtube guys aren't willing to fork up a few bucks to do a review that might get less action than an OEM review, it's a lose/lose. Definitely sucks

 

 

That’s it. To these guys, it doesn’t matter how great the clubs named Maltby are.
 

It’s just not their market. Currently, their business is all about “like & subscribe.”

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Was watching the TXG live from last week and Ian was asked if he would review Maltby. He said its just not popular enough to review, it is only benefit to a select group of club fitters. He also mentioned he is not a fan of designs and feels they they aren't "finished".
Sad to see since they do have an influence in the community especially with golf gear heads. Would be nice to give the Maltby a chance.
He couldn't be more wrong about that statement. I'm not sure if he has had any of the designs of the last two years in his hands.
I'm willing to bet he gets sponsored by the OEMs. With the Maltby heads he wouldn't have those wide profit margins either.
But to call them unfinished designs is just crazy.

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Here are a set of TS-1s with the Xcaliber RTi shafts. The 5 and 6 are the 75g S flex. The 7-PW are the 95g softstepped. The GW has the awesome Spinwedge shaft to cap off the set. The Spinwedge is 100g. Over all the set is just about perfect and easy to play, yet give superior control.q
To call these unfinished is Ludacris! These are beautiful in looks and such a well rounded club. The sole design is subtle but has turf interaction to rival a Srixon.
I have been having these go head to head with a Hogan Players combo set, same shaft setup, and these wipe the Hogans up in almost every category. I have a sentimental place in my heart for the Hogans but in all honesty it's not much of a contest between the two clubs.
The TS-1s are easier to hit at every spot in the bag. They feel better and are far more forgiving. Looks is a toss up as I'm a DBM finish kind of guy. That nod has to go to the Hogans though.
The TS-1s are stronger lofted in places and the distance certainly shows. Spin and flight control, the Hogans spin more but not a ton. I can flight the TS-1s a bit easier. Both have great control but you can't beat the touch of the TS-1s.
So I'm calling the TXG comments as BS. JPEG_20201116_114142_7329890944470258128.jpgJPEG_20201116_114207_5356713684242898720.jpgJPEG_20201116_114457_1468045973517205627.jpg

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21 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

He couldn't be more wrong about that statement. I'm not sure if he has had any of the designs of the last two years in his hands.
I'm willing to bet he gets sponsored by the OEMs. With the Maltby heads he wouldn't have those wide profit margins either.
But to call them unfinished designs is just crazy.

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I totally agree that pretty much all the new offerings look really good. I will say some of the older stuff I've seen does look a little wonky, maybe he just hasn't seen Maltby stuff in a while.

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I totally agree that pretty much all the new offerings look really good. I will say some of the older stuff I've seen does look a little wonky, maybe he just hasn't seen Maltby stuff in a while.
Yes, some of the old stuff was sketchy in looks but the clubs always performed. The forged high end offerings have always been more than solid. Look at how long the TE was offered. The MMB was another that was in the catalog forever and they were spot on. The biggest difference now is even the low cost heads have great looks as well.

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10 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

Here are a set of TS-1s with the Xcaliber RTi shafts. The 5 and 6 are the 75g S flex. The 7-PW are the 95g softstepped. The GW has the awesome Spinwedge shaft to cap off the set. The Spinwedge is 100g. Over all the set is just about perfect and easy to play, yet give superior control.q
To call these unfinished is Ludacris! These are beautiful in looks and such a well rounded club. The sole design is subtle but has turf interaction to rival a Srixon.
I have been having these go head to head with a Hogan Players combo set, same shaft setup, and these wipe the Hogans up in almost every category. I have a sentimental place in my heart for the Hogans but in all honesty it's not much of a contest between the two clubs.
The TS-1s are easier to hit at every spot in the bag. They feel better and are far more forgiving. Looks is a toss up as I'm a DBM finish kind of guy. That nod has to go to the Hogans though.
The TS-1s are stronger lofted in places and the distance certainly shows. Spin and flight control, the Hogans spin more but not a ton. I can flight the TS-1s a bit easier. Both have great control but you can't beat the touch of the TS-1s.
So I'm calling the TXG comments as BS. JPEG_20201116_114142_7329890944470258128.jpgJPEG_20201116_114207_5356713684242898720.jpgJPEG_20201116_114457_1468045973517205627.jpg

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Man I'll fight to the death on this one.. Don't care how blasphemous it may sound.. but a flushed TS-1 feels and sounds better than ANY club on the market.

Imagine if I started a thread that read something like "Mizuno has nothing on these clubs" what kind of hell I would unleash 🤣

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@Popeye64

Those TS1s look nice. It's too bad Maltby gets some poor comments around the interwebz because I think they do make a good product. With that said, they have had more than a few bad aesthetic designs in the past. They need to take that red color they use and return it to the depths of hell it came from. However, I do like the design of the TS1s and the TS2s are decent but not great. I've seen the KE4's in person and they look good at address but the sole design still looks on the cheap side but it's not a high cost club either. This generation of KE4's is miles better than the last design though. I think their best bet is going to be clean designs that aren't too busy like they have been in the past. I could see them upping the marketing budget in the future as club manufacturing costs go up. It won't be long till they can justify the cost of marketing as club manufacturing costs go up. I think pre-built paks will probably start at $500 within a few years as it just won't be possible to offer cheap Chinese stuff anymore but I hope I'm wrong.

I just think the idea of spending $20 - $30/set (IDK what they currently spend) on marketing when clubs are $500 will be more palatable for a company like Maltby that isn't big into advertising. I'll be curious to see if Maltby pivots towards more direct marketing like sending demos out to testers for them to review and compare. I could understand them not wanting to send out their KE4 S irons because they look ugly as sin but it does look like they've changed their designs for the better. 

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[mention=75887]Popeye64[/mention]
Those TS1s look nice. It's too bad Maltby gets some poor comments around the interwebz because I think they do make a good product. With that said, they have had more than a few bad aesthetic designs in the past. They need to take that red color they use and return it to the depths of hell it came from. However, I do like the design of the TS1s and the TS2s are decent but not great. I've seen the KE4's in person and they look good at address but the sole design still looks on the cheap side but it's not a high cost club either. This generation of KE4's is miles better than the last design though. I think their best bet is going to be clean designs that aren't too busy like they have been in the past. I could see them upping the marketing budget in the future as club manufacturing costs go up. It won't be long till they can justify the cost of marketing as club manufacturing costs go up. I think pre-built paks will probably start at $500 within a few years as it just won't be possible to offer cheap Chinese stuff anymore but I hope I'm wrong.
I just think the idea of spending $20 - $30/set (IDK what they currently spend) on marketing when clubs are $500 will be more palatable for a company like Maltby that isn't big into advertising. I'll be curious to see if Maltby pivots towards more direct marketing like sending demos out to testers for them to review and compare. I could understand them not wanting to send out their KE4 S irons because they look ugly as sin but it does look like they've changed their designs for the better. 
When I go the range I hand out a lot of demo clubs. The looks on peoples faces when they first hit a Maltby or even better find out what they cost more than speaks for value and performance.
To your point about marketing and moving up in market share.. im not sure howuch they want to grow.
They are already the world leader in golf supplies. Being owned by such a big parent company im not sure what they are allowed for a budget or if they are possibly just run on their own dime.
If you haven't hit a Maltby lately you are destined to spend three times the cost of a full set of Maltbys. Hit these clubs and you will buy them. In this day and age I certainly know I would never ever pay 1200 + for a new set of OEM irons. Ill gladly have three sets of irons in the rack as opposed to one.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

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15 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

When I go the range I hand out a lot of demo clubs. The looks on peoples faces when they first hit a Maltby or even better find out what they cost more than speaks for value and performance.
To your point about marketing and moving up in market share.. im not sure howuch they want to grow.
They are already the world leader in golf supplies. Being owned by such a big parent company im not sure what they are allowed for a budget or if they are possibly just run on their own dime.
If you haven't hit a Maltby lately you are destined to spend three times the cost of a full set of Maltbys. Hit these clubs and you will buy them. In this day and age I certainly know I would never ever pay 1200 + for a new set of OEM irons. Ill gladly have three sets of irons in the rack as opposed to one.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

this is kind of how I see things.. and I might be wrong but to me it makes sense as to why we're not seeing Maltby attempting to make a run similar to Hogan or Sub70. 

TGW like @Popeye64 mentioned is world renowned for golf shop supplies from A-Z. Maltby golf clubs might just be a life-long passion project of Ralph Maltby that TGW is able to supplement and help keep running while the real money for the company is made on TGW side of the business. Additionally, he may not be calling any of the shots at TGW anymore due to business acquisitions, mergers, etc. Just a thought

Ralph Maltby might just be doing business at a pace that keeps him excited, allows him to call it his, but not too crazy where it starts to feel like running a major business as he probably knows first-hand from TGW. I can totally respect that if that's his thing.  

:taylormade-small:  SIM Max 7°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X
:titelist-small:  917F2 3 Wood / UST ProForce V2 Black F4S++  
:callaway-small: Epic Flash Hybrid 18* / Mitsubishi Tensei Silver 70g 

post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TS-1 3 - P / TT DG 105 (S+) / GP Microsuede

post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW 50/6 + 56/12 Wedge 
:odyssey-small: O-Works #7 / Superstroke Ultra Slim 1.0

 

 

 

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