The Good Morning Thread

[Jim Shaw]

20 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

I remember a few years back Brandell and Duval got into it about something and was close to blows. Poor old Frank Nobilo was in between them and looked like he was looking somewhere under the desk to hide.

Brandall is jealous over Duval because Duval had a better career on the regular tour. Duval also qualified for the Champions Tour and Brandal could not make it through Q school on that.

Yeah I love it. Brandell has his line of BS with no credibility in my eyes and Duval has the balls to call him out on it and back it up

I think that is the interaction I remember as well, not long after that Duval dissapeared from the golf channel. 

[Jim Shaw]

4 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I am not a stats guy. I have never seen the point but imagine it might be a left brain right brain thing. I think the record (or at least was) for fewest putts in a round was set at Hilton head with very small greens. Ending up on the fringe and putting resulted in a lot of one putts and a few no putts. I thought that was a very misleading stat.

... And that is my problem with any stat. There is a world of difference missing a 4 foot putt with 2 feet of break and a straight in 4 foot putt. And as you stated, that 4 foot straight putt is quite different in the heat of competition compared to a casual round with friends. If I miss several fairways off the tee in the light rough favoring one side for a better approach, that is better than missing a fairway in the trees and I don't need stats to tell me how I am driving off the tee. It is always pretty obvious. And of course GIR's where I might be left with quite a few 35' and longer putts on undulating greens vs just missing in the fringe leaving a 6 foot putt on relatively flat greens. 

... But I get it and those with an I.T. kinda mind may find valuable information in stats so good for them and I am sure there is valuable information they can use. But like all sports I know when I am playing well and hitting good shots and when I am not and stats only confirm something I already know. 

Hey @chisag, great post... on another topic, what do you take to the course if it is just a "fun" round with your buddies? 

[chisag]

1 minute ago, Jim Shaw said:

Hey @chisag, great post... on another topic, what do you take to the course if it is just a "fun" round with your buddies? 

 

... Not sure what you mean "take to the course" but pretty much all my rounds are just for fun with friends these days. I am most definitely not a morning person and rarely play anytime before twilite and most competition here in Phoenix starts between 6am and 7:30 am. Same for Mens Leagues when back in Chicago most Mens Leagues took place in the afternoon. 

[cnosil]

Didn’t have to worry about the wind and rain.  Course wouldn’t let us out but said we could use the practice facilities all we wanted; I didn’t want to hit balls so I came home.   Oh well, maybe I can get out this weekend.  

[Jim Shaw]

Just now, chisag said:

 

... Not sure what you mean "take to the course" but pretty much all my rounds are just for fun with friends these days. I am most definitely not a morning person and rarely play anytime before twilite and most competition here in Phoenix starts between 6am and 7:30 am. Same for Mens Leagues when back in Chicago most Mens Leagues took place in the afternoon. 

I am struggling with "meaningless rounds" right now, don't focus on the line on the putting green, don't stay "present" in my shots and I am concerned that bad habits will creep in. 

[Shankster]

Since going back to a conventional swing I’ve had an issue where I am holding off the release.  I might be a tad quick at the top, and have two compounding issues.  Been working on my Patrick Reed roll to get the club released.  It’s quite irritating.

[ILMgolfnut]

17 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

I am struggling with "meaningless rounds" right now, don't focus on the line on the putting green, don't stay "present" in my shots and I am concerned that bad habits will creep in. 

That sounds like every round I ever play. Including my rare competitions. I think I have trouble focusing for four hours.

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

I was hoping someone would take the bait... yeah, great, shot link is fantastic, boring but fantastic, stats are fantastic, boring but fantastic, but unless you have walked a mile in a highly competitive team event or any event for that matter, momentum and specific energy can outweigh statistics every time. 

Which is why David Duval and Paul McGinley look at Brandell Chamblee like he has 2 heads and 4 eyes with all the statistics he is getting fed into his ear piece... You get to a point in the conversation when David Duval turns to Brandell and says "how many Ryder Cups and President Cups have you played on?"

The tide would have changed, no question in my mind, if a few of those lip outs had rolled in and if a few of those basic 8 footers had of dropped for the International team. 

There are people that believe in the statistics and people that don’t.  we keep saying when looking at stats in retrospect it is easy to see where you could have improved.  Don’t disagree.   Of course if a few more putts would have fallen it could have been different, but they didn’t fall and the stats show where players excelled and where they need to excel to win.  If I recall correctly you track stats to help determine where you need to work on your game. Those at the highest levels do also, they just go into more detail than the outdated Fairways hit, greens hit, total putts, feet of putts, etc.   Stroke gained is a way they can do evaluation of each shot to see how it compares to their peers. 
 

like it or not stats are taking over even the highest level to be predictive and  to direct course setups.   You like to look at the highest levels of competitions so here are a few articles: 
 

Research that explains how stats can help predict hole score on the European tour: https://www.golfsciencejournal.org/article/21353.pdf

 

edoardo molinaro has setup a company that leverages stats to help tour level players and in some minds helped the Europeans win the Ryder Cup: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/edoardo-molinari-ryder-cup-europe-statistics-b2422192.html

 

Article that discusses how Europe used PGA tour player stats  to setup the Ryder cup course to put USA at a disadvantage ;  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/europe-2023-ryder-cup-course-setup-game-plan

 

 

 

[Shankster]

2 minutes ago, ILMgolfnut said:

That sounds like every round I ever play. Including my rare competitions. I think I have trouble focusing for four hours.

I hear you.  I wish there were some 12-14 hole loops.  4 hours is too long.  Played 17 yesterday and it was just north of 4.  It’s not much fun, especially if you are waiting around.  I skipped 18 because we waited for 15 minutes on the 17th tee, probably closer to 20 before I could hit.  It really sucks the fun out of the game.

[Erin B]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

Yep I was Navy

Thank you, sir, for your service as well!!!

[chisag]

31 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

I am struggling with "meaningless rounds" right now, don't focus on the line on the putting green, don't stay "present" in my shots and I am concerned that bad habits will creep in. 

 

... I hear ya Jim and I always play better than I practice in every sport. But during the winter season when I play 4-5 times a week with my snowbird friends I can sometimes take rounds for granted, and that's never a good thing because as you said bad mental habits can creep in, so I try and always be aware of that. Every round is a competition for me so my focus is always the same as competing. Obviously we don't have the same adrenalin as actual competition and that's where the mental game comes into play. I guess because I am competing with myself and the course. My goals are always the same. Shoot a 65 and break my all time low of 66 I have shot too many times to count. Of course more rounds than not I won't reach that goal so my next goal is grind out the best score I can on any given day. 

... I think the "easy" part of focusing on my golf is it only takes around 30-40 seconds to evaluate my shot, determine the right approach and then execute the shot. Good or bad once the ball lands, it is completely out of my mind until I am approaching the next shot. I think learning when to focus for each player is just as important as how to focus.  Most of the guys I play with are aware of where they stand in the round and are constantly thinking things like "I need to have no more than 4 bogies on the back 9" or other thoughts that just add unneeded pressure or keep their minds on edge for much longer than necessary.

... And it probably goes without saying but I never have negative thoughts, even when playing poorly because I learned early in my sports career it is counter productive to doing anything well. And negative thoughts roam around your mind much longer than positive thoughts. When I say "nice par" to someone and hear them reply "Thanks but it doesn't make up for that double bogie 2 holes ago" it is always tough for me not to use it as a teaching moment because most just don; wanna hear it. 

[rkj427]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Didn’t have to worry about the wind and rain.  Course wouldn’t let us out but said we could use the practice facilities all we wanted; I didn’t want to hit balls so I came home.   Oh well, maybe I can get out this weekend.  

Better to be safe than sorry.

Also, IF you were to consider rain gear, Galway Bay has a sale going on, and in the opinion of many here, myself included, they are outstanding quality at fair pricing when compared to the "big name brands."

[chisag]

37 minutes ago, cnosil said:

There are people that believe in the statistics and people that don’t.  we keep saying when looking at stats in retrospect it is easy to see where you could have improved.  Don’t disagree.   Of course if a few more putts would have fallen it could have been different, but they didn’t fall and the stats show where players excelled and where they need to excel to win.  If I recall correctly you track stats to help determine where you need to work on your game. Those at the highest levels do also, they just go into more detail than the outdated Fairways hit, greens hit, total putts, feet of putts, etc.   Stroke gained is a way they can do evaluation of each shot to see how it compares to their peers. 
 

like it or not stats are taking over even the highest level to be predictive and  to direct course setups.   You like to look at the highest levels of competitions so here are a few articles: 

 

... I certainly understand stats that would show things like the US players aren't hitting wedges as close as Europeans so picking a course and tees that produce more wedge shots can be very valuable. But I wonder what that does for any individual player? Pro's work on every part of their game so they know they need to hit their wedges closer. It's not like they don't already practice those shots. Sure, there have been some like Dustin Johnson that really wasn't aware of how bad his wedge play was OR he just kept putting improvement off til it cost him a few tournaments so he put in more wedge practice with his coach, but I think by and large most know their weakness and either address it or ignore it. 

... Same can be said for stats telling someone missing more putts to the low side than the high side and maybe they start to play more break. But again, how do they not know this without needing stats to tell them? I just think there are Bubba Watsons and Patrick Cantlays and doubt anything going on inside their minds is even remotely similar. So if stats help someone's game and/or mental approach, I can easily see where it can be a valuable tool. But if they don't, they aren't useful at all. 

[TJ Hall]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Didn’t have to worry about the wind and rain.  Course wouldn’t let us out but said we could use the practice facilities all we wanted; I didn’t want to hit balls so I came home.   Oh well, maybe I can get out this weekend.  

Good call by the course…it’s just gross out there!

[Wib081]

3 hours ago, BIG STU said:

I remember a few years back Brandell and Duval got into it about something and was close to blows. Poor old Frank Nobilo was in between them and looked like he was looking somewhere under the desk to hide.

Brandall is jealous over Duval because Duval had a better career on the regular tour. Duval also qualified for the Champions Tour and Brandal could not make it through Q school on that.

Yeah I love it. Brandell has his line of BS with no credibility in my eyes and Duval has the balls to call him out on it and back it up

Gotta love Double D calling Brandel out. He has been irritating me for years and now here Duval isn’t cutting him any slack makes me smile! Maybe Brandel should have worn Oakley M Frames like Duval (definitely a reason I thought Duval was cool as a kid)and he would’ve played better . 

[ILMgolfnut]

4 hours ago, Shankster said:

I wish there were some 12-14 hole loops.

That's why I loved Shiskine in Scotland. 12 holes, par 42. Played in about 1:45, wanted to go again. And I could have, given the ferry schedule to get off the island. Even though #7 is a bear: 162 yards, par 3, blind, and the reason it's blind is that there is a huge dune right in front of the tee. If you don't clear the dune, you ain't finding your ball. I ended up going around the dune. I wasn't capable at that point of hitting one high and far enough to clear the dune.

Had a pretty stout thunderstorm this afternoon, heavy rain and a lot of wind, lasted an hour or so. The sun is out now at the Casa. Every time I turn on CNN or TWC the news about Helene gets worse, like the people who had to be airlifted from the roof of that hospital in Tennessee. And the 40 deaths and rising.

Edited 5 hours ago by ILMgolfnut

[Byrnzee]

We've got an exciting President's Cup ahead of us this weekend! Crazy to see USA sweep yesterday and INT sweep today. The odds of that happening have to be extremely low. Let's have a fun, competitive weekend!

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, Byrnzee said:

We've got an exciting President's Cup ahead of us this weekend! Crazy to see USA sweep yesterday and INT sweep today. The odds of that happening have to be extremely low. Let's have a fun, competitive weekend!

The answer is simple:  It's rigged. 

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, rkj427 said:

Better to be safe than sorry.

Also, IF you were to consider rain gear, Galway Bay has a sale going on, and in the opinion of many here, myself included, they are outstanding quality at fair pricing when compared to the "big name brands."

I prefer no rain gear; it keeps me from going out in the rain.     But I also need to get out and play so I can try and stay ahead of you in the VCT.  

[chisag]

11 minutes ago, Byrnzee said:

We've got an exciting President's Cup ahead of us this weekend! Crazy to see USA sweep yesterday and INT sweep today. The odds of that happening have to be extremely low. Let's have a fun, competitive weekend!

 

... Hard for me to get psyched up over the Presidents Cup when I think every single player lives in North America. I am sure some "competitors" are neighbors and/or belong to the same CC. But there was some good golf today so at least it was entertaining if you enjoy good golf shots. 

Edited 6 hours ago by chisag

[rkj427]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I prefer no rain gear; it keeps me from going out in the rain.     But I also need to get out and play so I can try and stay ahead of you in the VCT.  

I too prefer no rain gear, however living in the north where the weather isn't always perfect, I try to get a round in until the flakes appear.

The rain gear also works to keep some warmth in during the November and hopefully December rounds.

The Motocaddy and retiring at the end of April have really contributed to getting rounds in for me this year.

I am just ecstatic to be able to get out, and don't worry too much about the VCT.

Steady play from frequent rounds has really helped too.

Although we too will get some rain from the hurricane this weekend, our group has times for early morning both days, as the rainfall is projected to be minimal to lighter then.

Edited 5 hours ago by rkj427

[ILMgolfnut]

1 hour ago, Byrnzee said:

We've got an exciting President's Cup ahead of us this weekend! Crazy to see USA sweep yesterday and INT sweep today. The odds of that happening have to be extremely low. Let's have a fun, competitive weekend!

I just can't get excited about the PC. Possibly because the "International team" is an artificial construct. Us vs. Europe, I can get into. Us vs. Canada, Korea, Australia, etc., not so much. Watched a little bit today and was underwhelmed.

[Jim Shaw]

Well well well!!

The president’s cup just got very interesting!!

and I see the golf channel split up Brandell and Paul… 

day 3 tomorrow lots of points still left on the board 

[cnosil]

22 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Well well well!!

The president’s cup just got very interesting!!

and I see the golf channel split up Brandell and Paul… 

day 3 tomorrow lots of points still left on the board 

The Internationals looked at strokes gained stats from Thursday and saw they were losing lots of strokes with their putting.  

[Jim Shaw]

31 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The Internationals looked at strokes gained stats from Thursday and saw they were losing lots of strokes with their putting.  

I was thinking more beer last night helped them!! 

[Josh Parker]

3 hours ago, Byrnzee said:

We've got an exciting President's Cup ahead of us this weekend! Crazy to see USA sweep yesterday and INT sweep today. The odds of that happening have to be extremely low. Let's have a fun, competitive weekend!

Should be a good weekend.