Effect of Shortening Shafts.... Why does it matter?

[Stopher]

I did a search, and couldn't find this question anywhere.  If it exists, happy to go look.  Also, I'm not a big poster, so if this is in the wrong place, let me know.

Why does it matter if I shorten a shaft? 

I was fit into irons a few years ago.  1/2 inch short.  Effectively, making my 6-iron the same length as a standard 7 iron.  So why does it matter?  If I can hit my 6-iron good at 1/2 short, why can't I hit my 7 iron at the standard/same length as the shortened 6?

Let's assume for the sake of this question, that the clubs are built to have the same swing weight, and lie angles are set to appropriate for the length of club.

So the question is:  Why does it matter?  And, wouldn't the only practical difference be the small change in the bend points in the shaft?

Thanks!

[Shapotomous]

1 hour ago, Stopher said:

Let's assume for the sake of this question, that the clubs are built to have the same swing weight, and lie angles are set to appropriate for the length of club.

It depends on the golfer.  There can be varying degrees of success for different golfers with standard length clubs.  The longer the club coupled with a lower loft makes it more difficult to hit consistently for most golfers.  You may be able to handle a standard length set with adjusted swing weight & lie angles to give you a straight flight.  Others might struggle to get a standard length lower lofted club consistently on target or to a reasonable shot height.  What did the distance, height and dispersion data from your fitting indicate with your ball flight?   

Did your fitter adjust the swing weight and lie angle of different length clubs for you to try out during your fitting to allow comparison of the results.  Did the fitter ask you to choke up on a standard length club 1/2" to collect data? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Stopher said:

I was fit into irons a few years ago.  1/2 inch short.  Effectively, making my 6-iron the same length as a standard 7 iron.  So why does it matter?  If I can hit my 6-iron good at 1/2 short, why can't I hit my 7 iron at the standard/same length as the shortened 6?

First off there are no standards for length in clubs. Each brand uses their own length as their standard and yes you might find some matches between companies but you will find a lot of non matches. Some measure their length differently as well so even two brands that list the same length could actually when placed next to each other not be the same length.

Length plays a role in the ability to deliver the club correctly to get the sweet spot on the ball consistently. Swing weight for some is more important than for others, the shaft weight and feel is far more important, there are experts in the field I trust that wish swing weight would go away. 
 

It’s possible you could hit a 7i not cut down good but the chances of doing it consistently are probably lower because of the length.

At the end of the day the goal is to have a club that produces an optimal ball flight for the golfers swing. It gives them the chance to execute the s*** they are attempting by having the club work in their favor and not having to fight the club to try and hit the shot. The more optimal the ball flight the better chance for the desired result 

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

First off there are no standards for length in clubs. Each brand uses their own length as their standard and yes you might find some matches between companies but you will find a lot of non matches. Some measure their length differently as well so even two brands that list the same length could actually when placed next to each other not be the same length.

Well that's just great.  This means the steel scale I purchased from GW's for my club building bench, that has a standard club length table printed on it, is bogus .  As I've delved further into the DIY club build hobby, it became clear that the lack of consistency/standardization between OEM's rivals aerospace systems components and standards .

I'm guessing the vast majority are deciding between +/- 0.5 inch of "standard".  I'd be curious to see an analysis of how that modest change in club length really effects ball flight data.

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well that's just great.  This means the steel scale I purchased from GW's for my club building bench, that has a standard club length table printed on it, is bogus .  .

No, it isn’t bogus.  it is the standard for GW.  Everyone has a standard, they just may not be the same as your standards.

[Stopher]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

First off there are no standards for length in clubs. Each brand uses their own length as their standard and yes you might find some matches between companies but you will find a lot of non matches. Some measure their length differently as well so even two brands that list the same length could actually when placed next to each other not be the same length.

Length plays a role in the ability to deliver the club correctly to get the sweet spot on the ball consistently. Swing weight for some is more important than for others, the shaft weight and feel is far more important, there are experts in the field I trust that wish swing weight would go away. 
 

It’s possible you could hit a 7i not cut down good but the chances of doing it consistently are probably lower because of the length.

At the end of the day the goal is to have a club that produces an optimal ball flight for the golfers swing. It gives them the chance to execute the s*** they are attempting by having the club work in their favor and not having to fight the club to try and hit the shot. The more optimal the ball flight the better chance for the desired result 

If it’s possible to hit a 7 iron good cut down, but not as good not cut down, then what about the 6?  A cut down 6 is the same length as a normal 7. So if I cut down the 6 to hit it consistently, then why even cut them down at all?

in essence, with a half short, aren’t we just delofting the club 4 degrees (or whatever the loft difference is)?? 
 

A 1/2 short 6, being same length as std 7, the only real difference is loft.  
 

I feel like there is a lot of placebo effect here with club lengths.

this is more of a philosophical question. 
 

My brain hurts.
 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

51 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well that's just great.  This means the steel scale I purchased from GW's for my club building bench, that has a standard club length table printed on it, is bogus .  As I've delved further into the DIY club build hobby, it became clear that the lack of consistency/standardization between OEM's rivals aerospace systems components and standards .

I'm guessing the vast majority are deciding between +/- 0.5 inch of "standard".  I'd be curious to see an analysis of how that modest change in club length really effects ball flight data.

It’s been awhile since I looked at each company and compared specs. I’ve done some quick ones between a few brands for reference in threads on here. I would say that it’s no more than +/- .5” but as I mentioned in my post it doenst account for how the r mad measures length. I know TM shows it on their site and that they are different from some toner brands. I have seen posts on wrx of members comparing their current club at let’s say 37” with a new one from a other brand at 37” and one is 1/4” longer.

Not surprised you are running into that and learning it as you get more hands on. I learned it in 2012/2013 when I started diving into gear and learning the fitting process and assisting at demo days and doing some demo days for the cleveland/srixon rep.

For some people the length difference isn’t an issue just like for some swingweight or overall weight isn’t an issue. It depends on how sensitive one is to the change. For me I don’t have a lot of sensitivity to swing weight or even shaft weight. I have irons that range from 105-130 and don’t really notice much difference. I’ve tested 95g recoils recently in irons and could play them without any issue.

For me it’s more the shafts profile and how it feels. I usually don’t do well with real stuff but section shafts in woods. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, Stopher said:

If it’s possible to hit a 7 iron good cut down, but not as good not cut down, then what about the 6?  A cut down 6 is the same length as a normal 7. So if I cut down the 6 to hit it consistently, then why even cut them down at all?

in essence, with a half short, aren’t we just delofting the club 4 degrees (or whatever the loft difference is)?? 
 

A 1/2 short 6, being same length as std 7, the only real difference is loft.  
 

I feel like there is a lot of placebo effect here with club lengths.

this is more of a philosophical question. 
 

My brain hurts.
 

 

There’s no standard as I explained in to posts above and that there isn’t a standard measurement system for each company so even if they list the same length on their website. So we need to move away from normal or standard unless we are talking about the same iron line or in some cases.

You aren’t delofting the club your lie angle will change tho, as will weight. 
 

For some people they could hit the 7i at it’s factory length as good as the 6i cut down and some can’t. For some clubs are too long or too short based on their build and how they swing. 
 

Its not really just something that’s cut and dry. It’s something unfortunately needs to be tried and tested by the golfer or done thru a fitting. 
 

Knowing why the fitter decided 1/2 short would help. But just as an example of how weird things can be @Golfspy_CG2 did a fitting at tpi with a master fitter. He is 6’7” and they fit him into the factory length for their irons and even considered going 1/4” short.
 

[cnosil]

37 minutes ago, Stopher said:

If it’s possible to hit a 7 iron good cut down, but not as good not cut down, then what about the 6?  A cut down 6 is the same length as a normal 7. So if I cut down the 6 to hit it consistently, then why even cut them down at all?

in essence, with a half short, aren’t we just delofting the club 4 degrees (or whatever the loft difference is)?? 
 

A 1/2 short 6, being same length as std 7, the only real difference is loft.  
 

I feel like there is a lot of placebo effect here with club lengths.

this is more of a philosophical question. 
 

My brain hurts.
 

 

I think you are trying to do too much analysis.   The configuration of a club it to help the player optimize where  the player hits the ball on the face and how the ball reacts.  You can’t look at one individual thing and say if this changes why don’t I hit it better or worse.   Some people may and some won’t.  When going up a club in a set, most people reach a point where they hit the club poorly; using your thought, it’s only a half inch longer than the next club.  But that isn’t the case, loft, shaft weight, head weight, how far we are from the ball, etc all play a factor in how well we hit a club.  A lot of it simply comes down to how a player responds to the change.

 Let’s look at one length clubs; some other factors are changed to get the right launch characteristics and correct distance gapping.  
 

It isn’t about one club but the entire set.  Using your perspective,  if I hit driver well, why not make all the clubs driver length?   If you don’t hit driver well, why not make it pitching wedge length?   

How are you defining good?   How consistent is impact on the club face?  How consistent is the ball dispersion? How consistent is ball flight?   I’d say you have to look at the big picture first and not the fine tuning.   
 

 

 

[Snowmonkeys1310]

14 hours ago, Stopher said:

I did a search, and couldn't find this question anywhere.  If it exists, happy to go look.  Also, I'm not a big poster, so if this is in the wrong place, let me know.

Why does it matter if I shorten a shaft? 

I was fit into irons a few years ago.  1/2 inch short.  Effectively, making my 6-iron the same length as a standard 7 iron.  So why does it matter?  If I can hit my 6-iron good at 1/2 short, why can't I hit my 7 iron at the standard/same length as the shortened 6?

Let's assume for the sake of this question, that the clubs are built to have the same swing weight, and lie angles are set to appropriate for the length of club.

So the question is:  Why does it matter?  And, wouldn't the only practical difference be the small change in the bend points in the shaft?

Thanks!

As someone who uses shorter than standard length shafts in my longer clubs, I can attest that adjusting the length of the shaft impacts how the club performs. Also, no matter how a shaft is marketed, the stiffest part of the shaft is the thickest part (the butt end). A shaft may be marketed as having a "more active" butt section and a "stiff tip" but that's just relative to the other offerings in that company's line-up.

Here are the main impacts that shortening shafts has:

Swing Weight: For every 1/2 inch cut, you drop roughly 3 swing weight points, making the club lighter and potentially faster to swing, but possibly reducing clubhead feel. Adjustments like lead tape or tip weights can restore desired swing weight.

Swing Speed & Arc: Shorter shafts lead to shorter swing arcs, which generally is going to reduce swing speed as there is less time for acceleration.

Shaft Flex: Shortening stiffens the shaft, potentially lowering launch and reducing spin. The degree of change depends on whether you cut from the butt or tip end, and the specific shaft profile.

Clubhead Control & Accuracy: A shorter shaft requires standing closer to the ball. The closer something is to your hands, the more you should be able to control it. Also, standing closer to the ball resuts in a more vertical shaft angle, which generally is associated with increased accuracy.  

Lie Angle: Shortening a shaft effectively flattens the lie angle, causing your hands to raise and the toe to point downward at address. Flatter lie angles typically shift shot dispersion to the right, especially in high-lofted clubs. If you struggle with heel strikes, making the club more upright can help.

Impact Based on Club Length: Adjustments affect clubs differently based on their length. For instance, shortening a 45-inch driver by 1 inch has less impact than shortening a 35.5-inch 9-iron.

Remember, these are general rules, and the ideal fit depends on individual swing characteristics. Here's a link to a useful guide for adjusting shafts
https://www.curated.com/journal/70000/how-to-determine-the-right-golf-club-length

[JDHolmes]

If it’s possible to hit a 7 iron good cut down, but not as good not cut down, then what about the 6?  A cut down 6 is the same length as a normal 7. So if I cut down the 6 to hit it consistently, then why even cut them down at all?
in essence, with a half short, aren’t we just delofting the club 4 degrees (or whatever the loft difference is)?? 
 
A 1/2 short 6, being same length as std 7, the only real difference is loft.  
 
I feel like there is a lot of placebo effect here with club lengths.
this is more of a philosophical question. 
 
My brain hurts.
 
 

Lie angle for the 6 and 7 are different and a cut down 6 iron that is the same length as a regular 7 iron would have a different lie angle. To get the appropriate lie angle on that full length 7, you would need to choke down 1/2 inch.

Does the 1/2 degree make a difference? It does for me. But my clubs are 3/4" longer, not shorter with appropriate lie angles for me. I can hit regular lie and length clubs, just not well and will dig the toe much deeper than hosel end due to flat lie of standard clubs.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Bang60]

A few days ago I started hitting a Mizuno 919 hot metal 7 iron with a 6 iron shaft and the 7 iron is 30'deg loft, so the 6 iron is a Mizuno MP18 with 28deg loft that's actually stamped on the heads and the reason I've got these 2 irons is there Demo heads as I want to try the Mizuno Hotmetal heads to decide if I need to buy the latest model or not. So because Mizuno use an Adapter with there Demo irons it's quick to change shafts in a Fitting I'm planning on buying more irons like the 921 and the 923 try them out with longer then shorter shaft's and hopefully I will make an informed decision on what's going to work best for me..

You can see the screw that secures the head to the shaft in the photo, I bought a Allen key with a T head to make it easier to tighten. Weather permitting I'm hoping to do some testing with both heads with the one reg flex steel shaft and will update my findings...

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Bang60 said:

A few days ago I started hitting a Mizuno 919 hot metal 7 iron with a 6 iron shaft and the 7 iron is 30'deg loft, so the 6 iron is a Mizuno MP18 with 28deg loft that's actually stamped on the heads and the reason I've got these 2 irons is there Demo heads as I want to try the Mizuno Hotmetal heads to decide if I need to buy the latest model or not. So because Mizuno use an Adapter with there Demo irons it's quick to change shafts in a Fitting I'm planning on buying more irons like the 921 and the 923 try them out with longer then shorter shaft's and hopefully I will make an informed decision on what's going to work best for me..

You can see the screw that secures the head to the shaft in the photo, I bought a Allen key with a T head to make it easier to tighten. Weather permitting I'm hoping to do some testing with both heads with the one reg flex steel shaft and will update my findings...

What are you trying to accomplish by soft stepping the iron?

[Bang60]

16 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What are you trying to accomplish by soft stepping the iron?

I'm trying to learn what's going to work best for me because I really don't know, it was more accident than design as I bought the 7iron Hot metal head only and then realized I needed a DEMO shaft to fit the head. I had a Ping fitting except all the fitter told me was I'm 2deg Flat, to get all that information I had to buy a set of clubs and I'm not spending $3000 minimum plus I couldn't even pay a $100 or so for the fitting information so I told them what to do with there information

I knew before I had the fitting I had changed from std lie to 1-2 deg flat and I proved it buy bending a 7 and 9 iron about 1.5deg flat, I had to guess that bec I have the poor man's protractor if that's the right word to measure the Lie plus I used other std lie iron's to check my measurements. But my final test is where the ball goes compared to where it went before, so as I can go right now as well as straight or left I'm close I think. 

I'm just a hacker having a go but I listen to you and others who obviously know alot more about it than I do, I also ask questions and read alot  

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bang60
info

[AndySP]

 

On 7/27/2023 at 9:50 AM, Stopher said:

A 1/2 short 6, being same length as std 7, the only real difference is loft.  
 

I feel like there is a lot of placebo effect here with club lengths.

this is more of a philosophical question. 
 

 

With regard to the original question. This is how irons work, as was said above, there is no standard. 50 years ago they were all a little shorter, but they also went PW-1 iron. 

The reason i cut all my clubs short…is that I’m short and I have long arms. It matters at the ends of the set. A “normal” length  wedge would have to be 6* flat or more to sit right, so I cut them down and flatten them only 2-3*. Likewise a “normal” length driver or 3 wood is unwieldy at my height and they can’t really be adjusted enough besides cutting them down.
 

The only thing that matters is the gapping between them. a huge loft gap to get to my hybrid. I imagine a lot of people cutting down their irons do the same. 

[mattjamd]

I can’t give you the science as to why it matters (I’m sure someone on the forum can) - but I would simply encourage you to get fit for what’s best for you. I’m 6’2” and play 0.5 inch longer irons but I just got fit for Titleist driver and fairway and actually found 1” shorter shaft length (& heavier shaft weight) helps me find the center of the club face much more so I get a better quality of strike and am actually gaining yards from my previous driver (Ping G410 LST).

isn’t the constant experimenting what makes us golf nerds?