KatoGolfer Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Almost all of the higher handicap players I play with use too high lofted clubs on almost every shot around the greens. I will not offer advise to anyone unless asked but if I'm asked I usually tell them that. I had one of my 12 handy guys ask about improving his short game, he was a SW or LW only player around the greens, I told him that and he's improved quite a bit. I don't get it, I'm thinking that these guys picked up the game later in life and were never taught a true short game maybe? If you watch professionals, most will use an 8 or 9 iron if they can and hit a bump and run chip. The greens they play on are so fast that you don't see this quite as much as you did in the past but most still do it when they can. Also, there are exceptions like Phil that use the same wedge around the greens on every shot, most amateurs should not do this. My philosophy is to assess the lie, then use the lowest lofted club that you can get away with on each shot that, after picking a landing spot, will stop by the time it gets to the hole. I think there is always the exception, maybe the guy that routinely practices every shot with his normal SW and uses shaft lean to de-loft the club. You really have to put in work to get this kind of short game. On wedge shots less than the length of your highest lofted wedge, I use both my SW(54*) or LW(58*). I try to never hit a wedge at 100%, 90% is the ceiling, which I believe is good advice for everyone. Find out your 100% of your highest lofted club, take 90% of that and that should be your full LW, IMO. I then use a approximate percentage for these type wedge shots. If I'm hitting a shot from 50 yards, I know my max LW(90%) is 90 yards and my SW(90%) is 110 yards. I'd hit a little over 50% LW or hit a little under 50% SW low spinner. It depends on the amount of green you have to work with and how quick the ball needs to stop. golfish! 1 Quote Driver: Taylormade '16 M2, Aldila NV 2KXV X 3W: Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X 3: Callaway X-forged UT 21* 4-P: Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S Wedges: 50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black Putter: currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36" Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, KatoGolfer said: Almost all of the higher handicap players I play with use too high lofted clubs on almost every shot around the greens. I will not offer advise to anyone unless asked but if I'm asked I usually tell them that. I had one of my 12 handy guys ask about improving his short game, he was a SW or LW only player around the greens, I told him that and he's improved quite a bit. I don't get it, I'm thinking that these guys picked up the game later in life and were never taught a true short game maybe? If you watch professionals, most will use an 8 or 9 iron if they can and hit a bump and run chip. The greens they play on are so fast that you don't see this quite as much as you did in the past but most still do it when they can. Also, there are exceptions like Phil that use the same wedge around the greens on every shot, most amateurs should not do this. My philosophy is to assess the lie, then use the lowest lofted club that you can get away with on each shot that, after picking a landing spot, will stop by the time it gets to the hole. I think there is always the exception, maybe the guy that routinely practices every shot with his normal SW and uses shaft lean to de-loft the club. You really have to put in work to get this kind of short game. On wedge shots less than the length of your highest lofted wedge, I use both my SW(54*) or LW(58*). I try to never hit a wedge at 100%, 90% is the ceiling, which I believe is good advice for everyone. Find out your 100% of your highest lofted club, take 90% of that and that should be your full LW, IMO. I then use a approximate percentage for these type wedge shots. If I'm hitting a shot from 50 yards, I know my max LW(90%) is 90 yards and my SW(90%) is 110 yards. I'd hit a little over 50% LW or hit a little under 50% SW low spinner. It depends on the amount of green you have to work with and how quick the ball needs to stop. With full respect to your handicap being significantly better than mine, I can't say I agree with much of this, but I'm open to input from others? I agree that a higher handicap player will find 7-iron bump and run shots to be easier to execute. But every pro tournament I watch their using high-lofted wedges around the green rather than bump and run shots. I'll try and find the clip, but Spieth did a video with Michael Breed a couple years ago and talked about almost exclusively using his 60, and controlling spin versus run-out by ball position and club face manipulation. I try to do the same and chipping is easily the strength of my game, because I've learned to manipulate the dynamic loft and ball positioning. Again, I'm not discounting your own experience, but I certainly don't agree with your observation of tour player club choice around the green. Seems to me to be the exact opposite of what you've posted. Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatoGolfer Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said: With full respect to your handicap being significantly better than mine, I can't say I agree with much of this, but I'm open to input from others? I agree that a higher handicap player will find 7-iron bump and run shots to be easier to execute. But every pro tournament I watch their using high-lofted wedges around the green rather than bump and run shots. I'll try and find the clip, but Spieth did a video with Michael Breed a couple years ago and talked about almost exclusively using his 60, and controlling spin versus run-out by ball position and club face manipulation. I try to do the same and chipping is easily the strength of my game, because I've learned to manipulate the dynamic loft and ball positioning. Again, I'm not discounting your own experience, but I certainly don't agree with your observation of tour player club choice around the green. Seems to me to be the exact opposite of what you've posted. If that's what you see that's what you see. I did say that the greens are so fast on the Tour now that you don't see bump and runs nearly as often as you used to and also said that for you to use exclusively one club you have to put in a lot of time to perfect it. Most amateurs don't have that kind of time, just don't put in that time or are not capable of perfecting it. The best players I play with use a variety of clubs around the greens depending the on the situation. I'd say that a normal SW is still the choice for a majority of chips around greens but for players to never use an 8 iron bump and run EVER is a mistake. I play with a couple 15+ handys that use exclusively a SW and they struggle mightily. Different areas of the country could also be different as well, or even the course that you play most of the time. If you have shaved down areas all around your greens you can use putter alot more than I can with my heavy tall thick grass. Grass around Florida greens is much different than grass around Minnesota greens. On smaller greens it will be harder to use the bump and run but if you play on big greens those shots come about more often. If you play in Europe you will see shots around the greens from hybrid to LW and just about every shot in between. GolfSpy AFG 1 Quote Driver: Taylormade '16 M2, Aldila NV 2KXV X 3W: Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X 3: Callaway X-forged UT 21* 4-P: Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S Wedges: 50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black Putter: currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36" Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfish! Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 60* for most shots around the green, manipulate dynamic loft with either ball position or opening/closing face 56* is usually only in bunkers, dunno why i have trouble getting it out with the 60* might be a mental thing lol but i also use for full shots from around 75 yards 52* is for shots around 90-100 yards from green full shot Quote Driver : SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff Woods : GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular Hybrids: 949X Project X HZRDUS RDX Black Irons : 699 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts Wedges : 52, 56, 60 Putter : Spider Red Bag : lightweight cart bag | Dry Series Bag Ball : TP5 PIX (2019) | ProV1x (2021) Rangefinder : ULT-X Pushcart : M5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart SoCal, USA Right handed HDCP 16.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballplayer002003 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 10 hours ago, EasyPutter said: I was struggling with a 9i for the chip shots and started looking at the 7i as I chunked it less. Added a choked down the grips and more putting stroke and practice has had good results from the fringe but I swapped out traditional wedges for hybrid wedges because of thin or fat disappointing hits (should be called misses since they do miss the green usually). More confidence with a hybrid wedge (59* Lovett and 56* Worx) that won't bury when thumped into the ground at contact and actually getting decent loft and shots that drop and stop on the green. Lots still to learn but on the right track. I recently watched a YouTube video of James Robinson and one of his buddies. They had a chipping contest. James uses a traditional wedge while his buddy used a 3 or 4 hybrid. They hit a series of 3 shots each and took the average to see which club should be used. The hybrid won. It was interesting. The buddy went with the old adage of keeping the ball on the ground as much as possible to hit safer more consistent shots. Grit Golf and KatoGolfer 2 Quote Driver: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g 3 Wood: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff 5 Wood : Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff 4 Hybrid: TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex Irons: 5-7 Apex forged 19 w/ Modus 120 X 9-A Apex Pro 19 w/ Modus 120 X Wedges: MD5 52&56 Jaws Dynamic Gold wedge flex Putter: Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5 34" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grit Golf Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 So there’s a patten emerging, I think - tell me if I’m wrong, I won’t be offended: 20+ handicaps play greenside shots with way too much loft, they rely on just sand wedge or lob wedge only, and they don’t have a system/grasp for distances less than their full swing highest lofted wedge. 10-20 handicaps are using a variety of clubs greenside, they are getting the ball running whenever they can, and they are aiming for the middle of the green and are avoiding hitting a wedge twice to get on from within the distance of their FSHLW. 0-10 handicaps have developed a system for attacking pins, they may start to manipulate high lofted wedges for a majority of greenside work or they may have developed a lot of control running the ball. + handicap players are playing more and more in fast tournament conditions. To hang, they are manipulating high lofted wedges and if they are pros, have the time to grind in the muscle memory to learn these shots from a variety of lies. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy KatoGolfer, tchat07 and cnosil 3 Quote “He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownM2 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I use my 54 for everything around the green. My 50 is pretty much full shots only and my 60 is for full shots from a good lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatoGolfer Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 12 hours ago, Grit Golf said: So there’s a patten emerging, I think - tell me if I’m wrong, I won’t be offended: 20+ handicaps play greenside shots with way too much loft, they rely on just sand wedge or lob wedge only, and they don’t have a system/grasp for distances less than their full swing highest lofted wedge. 10-20 handicaps are using a variety of clubs greenside, they are getting the ball running whenever they can, and they are aiming for the middle of the green and are avoiding hitting a wedge twice to get on from within the distance of their FSHLW. 0-10 handicaps have developed a system for attacking pins, they may start to manipulate high lofted wedges for a majority of greenside work or they may have developed a lot of control running the ball. + handicap players are playing more and more in fast tournament conditions. To hang, they are manipulating high lofted wedges and if they are pros, have the time to grind in the muscle memory to learn these shots from a variety of lies. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy I think you hit this one 300 right down the middle Grit Golf 1 Quote Driver: Taylormade '16 M2, Aldila NV 2KXV X 3W: Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X 3: Callaway X-forged UT 21* 4-P: Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S Wedges: 50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black Putter: currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36" Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowNLow Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) For me, I will use much more of a variety of clubs for chipping and pitching if I have my bag with me as opposed to riding in a cart. If I am riding and I miss the green, most times I have no idea what the the lie or the shot is about from where the cart got parked, so I have to grab the "kit" out of the bag, the "kit" consists of putter, 60, 56, and PW or 9. (And I get harassed for this of course.) Sometimes it works out, but sometimes I have try the lower percentage shot, (fly it more than roll it) because I don't have the right club in the "kit". When I am walking, the bag is there and everything is possible, and I can pick the club based on the lie, the grain in the green, the slope, the brain just picks the best club. I believe that most golfers using only one or two clubs around the green can be greatly attributed to the golf cart. Edited June 11, 2020 by SlowNLow cnosil, aerospace_ray and Grit Golf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerospace_ray Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, SlowNLow said: For me, I will use much more of a variety of clubs for chipping and pitching if I have my bag with me as opposed to riding in a cart. If I am riding and I miss the green, most times I have no idea what the the lie or the shot is about from where the cart got parked, so I have to grab the "kit" out of the bag, the "kit" consists of putter, 60, 56, and PW or 9. (And I get harassed for this of course.) Sometimes it works out, but sometimes I have try the lower percentage shot, (fly it more than roll it) because I don't have the right club in the "kit". When I am walking, the bag is there and the everything is possible, and I can pick the club based on the lie, the grain in the green, the slope, the brain just picks the best club. I believe that most golfers using only one or two clubs around the green can be greatly attributed to the golf cart. I agree with your example walking vs riding regarding club selection. Have noticed a pattern with myself and others when riding in a cart during a tournament. I will see my ball from a distance, stop and maybe take a couple of clubs at drop off. Get to the ball and realize a slope issue or see something walking my distance off and realize I needed a different club. Other golfer is half way across the course with the cart and I just go ahead and hit with what I got. Never happens when I walk. Course management or lack thereof in my case....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryShortCake Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I use my PW around 100-115, 52deg 75 yards and in, 56deg mostly green side bunkers and my 60deg if I have something in front of me I need to flop over. I prob use my 52 the most. I have the confidence in it and it usually never lets me down. I think confidence in your club makes a huge difference. When I grab my 60 I always almost come up short and then its in my head before I even start my backswing. cnosil 1 Quote Driver: Rogue Sub Zero 9* stiff Wood: Tight Lies TI 3 wood stiff Hybrid: XR 3 19 deg stiff Irons: JPX 900 Tour std loft/lie Wedges: 52,56,60 Putter: #7 Red Ball: Q-Star 12.9 Handicap Comox Valley, B.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavygolffeels Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I user a 60 degree for 90% of shots around the green. I often use a 56 out of sand. And will occasionally use the 56 when there is a lot of green to work with, especially going uphill to the hole. Also if im on an extreme uphill lie where I know the ball is going to come out high, makes sense to club down there. Once in a blue moon, I'll use a 9 iron to putt the ball, mainly on a downhill lie from rough without a lot of green to work with. Basically just putting the ball with an iron. Everything else is the 60* all day. Is like tossing the ball at the hole. So good. Quote GARSEN GRIP TESTER Driver: PING G400 MAX, Ventus Blue 6x Woods: COBRA F6 Baffler AD DI 8S Hybrid: CALLAWAY Apex Pro, Ventus Blue 8s Irons: SRIXON ZX5 mk2 5-6, ZX7 mk2 7-PW, Modus 120x Wedges: EDEL 50 C grind, 54 V grind, CLEVELAND 60 RTX6 Low Putter: YES Abbie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakbryce Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 For the past few years I used my 58. However, this year I have attempted to divide yardages up among my three Vokey wedges and my putter from 10 - 70 yards. From 70 yards and longer, I use full swings, choking up for intermediate yardage. It is a work in progress but my short game is improving. I think Tom Kite was the first person to catalog different swing lengths with different wedges to dial in his short game. My short game is slowly improving. Quote Driver: Callaway Epic 9 degree, stiff (set at 10 degrees with the movable weight in the center} FW: Callaway Epic 3,5, heaven wood w/ regular shaft (driver shaft in 3 wood, 3 wood shaft in 5 wood, 5 wood shaft in heaven wood, all three set at neutral plus 1 degree) Hybrids: Callaway BB19 4,6,7 (4 set at neutral plus 1 degree and 6 and 7 set at neutral minus 1 degree for gapping purposes) Irons: Callaway Rogue ST Max 8, 9, PW Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM6 50,54,58 Ball: Titleist Pro V1, 1X, Vice Pro Plus or anything I find that day and try out for the fun of it (I haven't bought balls with my own money in at least 10 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie T Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 From about 75 in, its the 50* wedge especially if I am going over a bunker guarding the pin and there is not any room to roll out. My "home" course has smallish greens that beg for soft, tight landings. However if I am fairway coming in, 7-8-9 irons to get a roll happening. When its tight with elevated greens its the 58 all day. Much of my at home practice time is dedicated to bump and run style shots with all the wedges and higher lofted irons. Good discussion. Quote WITB? Ping G400 SFT w/Aldila Mamba shaft R flex; Ping G410 3w; Ping G400 3h(19), 4h(22), 5h(26); TaylorMade SLDR 5i (interchanges w/5h)-PW -stock graphite shafts Rflex; INDI FLX-S wedges (50, 54, 58) w/Recoil graphite shafts -Rflex and Odyssey AI-One 7T BD Milled (aka Millie), ball choice tends to be Pro-V1 or simliar 3pc urethane balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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