Checked My Iron Loft and Lie and I was really suprised.

[rapa7846]

Hello MGS Community, 

I had my iron's loft and lie checked today at the PGA superstore and I was very surprised. 

I thought I'd share my story - maybe a good entertainment reading for those stuck at home on a beautiful day (for who knows what reasons )

 

Just a little background story: 

Recently, my avid golfer friend who is a plus handicap told me that he gets his iron's loft and lie checked every year -- sometimes multiple times a year.

And I'd thought I'd give my iron a check-up. I mean why not? right?

I got my irons fitted about a year and a half ago by True Spec, and never had my iron's loft and lie checked after that.

and I recently ordered my wedges from Taylormade and had them custom-build me a 50, 54 @55, and 60. 

 

I had a few reasons I wanted to get my irons checked. 

First reason: my irons were hooking to the left.

I never really had this issue before. I use to play a fade, and nowadays I aim to play a push draw; however, even when my swing feels solid, I would notice my ball starting left of my aim and hooking. 

For the past few months, I always blamed myself since my swing would be the biggest issue. 

Second reason: I practice on a mat on a daily basis; however, when a golf course has a grass range, I always go early before the round to enjoy hitting off the grass. 

I never achieved great-looking straight divots- and I, again, always blamed myself since my swing would be the biggest issue. 

 

WRONG. (Kind of - )

 

While I'm not a tour pro of any kind, I honestly think my swing isn't bad. I teach golf to students, and I hit the ball pretty solid. 

I think I would be able to bring down my handicap if I had more time to practice short approaches under 100 yards and chipping, but it's harder to get those practices in when I'm living in a more urban area. (Grass practice not readily available nearby)

But anyway, bottom line, I consider my short game the limiting factor to better golf, not my swing. 

 

To continue on with the story: 

I went into the store today and asked for my lie angle to be checked. 

My first few swings with my 7 iron on a lie board and I got a result that I needed my irons -2 degree flat.

This was very surprising to know because my irons were already flatter than any irons on the market. 

I use a Miura MC501 irons which have 61 degrees of lie. 

For comparison, John Rahm's Callaway Apex TCB has 62 degrees of lie, Taylormade P7MC has 62.5 degrees of Lie etc. 

In summary, my Irons are already flat.  But I needed 2 more degrees of flatness. 

 

Initially, before visiting when I was doing my research on what my iron's standard specs were -- I actually wanted to tweak my clubs to a more upright lie position. 

Don't ask me why, but that was my thought... ( Looking back, I honestly do not know why I wanted to move my irons upright.)

But when the fitter told me I need my irons -2 degrees flat, I was in disbelief. 

I asked if I could check the 9 iron. Same. -2 degrees.  

I asked if I could check the 5 Iron. Same. -2 degrees. 

 

So now in belief that I need to change all my irons to -2 degrees flat, I walked up to the counter and made a request for these changes, and handed over my lofts for each iron. 

As he was checking the irons, he told me all my iron lofts were off. Either a degree stronger or two degrees weaker. 

Last year, I carried my 8 iron 164. This year I carried my 8 iron 155.  It wasn't the swing!  It was the loft!

I stood there shocked and a lot of my recent miss shots started making sense. 

I was carrying my 9 iron 148. But my 8 Iron 155.  9 Iron was 1 degree stronger than standard, and my 8 iron was 2 degrees weaker.  What surprise!

The club fitter told me that soft metal irons like mine get bent easily and the loft changes as I swing and interact with the ground.

 

After he was done, I asked if he could check my wedges -- I noticed, I was carrying them further these days. Not by much but just a little over the flag -- EVERYTIME.

I bought these wedges and had Taylormade custom build it for me maybe two months ago and I assume they built it right. 

But my 50-degree wedge was at 49.  My 54 @ 55-degree wedge was at 54. My 60-degree wedge was at 59.75. 

They were all in a stronger loft than they were supposed to be. 

Shocked.. Again. 

 

After tweaking everything, I went on the lie board and tested a few of my irons. 

I was getting a good middle interaction now, but was getting some fades/cuts. 

I guess now, it's the swing issue.  But the good thing was that all the balls were starting in line. 

and fades were prob happening because the clubs aren't that upright anymore at impact. 

So back to my original point -- yes my swing is the biggest fault but it wasn't the ONLY fault. Ah ha! 

 

After today's experience, I think I'm going to get my irons checked more often. 

Maybe for those who read this far, you should too. -- It might change your misses, maybe save a stroke or two on average during a round with no extra practice!

 

 

I hope my writing wasn't too boring, and if you have similar experiences or thoughts, or reasons, on why irons loft change

Please feel free to share your story with me. 

 

Just my clubs to make the post a tiny bit more interesting

 

[revkev]

That's what you get for having those beautiful forged blades!    I'm sure it felt good to share that - hitting on mats a lot with those clubs doesn't help, either.  You should probably check them periodically.  Now that you know they are right you can let it rip.  Good luck!

[NM01]

The lofts are within manufacturing tolerances. This is why they should be checked upon receipt of new clubs whether custom ordered or not especially if ordering from a club manufacturer and not thur a club builder.

As for lie angles first two different machines can read the lies differently so if measured at the factory as X degree and then measured somewhere else on a different machine it could read Y degree. Also can be off if the machine isn’t calibrated.

As for using a lie board it’s a bad way to check lies. It’s called a lie board for a reason.

Using the sharpie line test is a far better and more accurate way to measure.

https://thesandtrap.com/blogs/entry/18-sharpie-test-easy-way-to-check-your-lie-angles/
 

Also several threads on wrx that talk about why lie boards lie

[revkev]

That's what you get for having those beautiful forged blades!    I'm sure it felt good to share that - hitting on mats a lot with those clubs doesn't help, either.  You should probably check them periodically.  Now that you know they are right you can let it rip.  Good luck!

Sorry for the double post - I'm having a night.   I like the sharpie test - another one is the business card test - they both work fine.  

[WaffleHouseTour]

2 hours ago, revkev said:

- another one is the business card test - they both work fine.  

And that is? Never heard of that one 

[rapa7846]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The lofts are within manufacturing tolerances. This is why they should be checked upon receipt of new clubs whether custom ordered or not especially if ordering from a club manufacturer and not thur a club builder.

As for lie angles first two different machines can read the lies differently so if measured at the factory as X degree and then measured somewhere else on a different machine it could read Y degree. Also can be off if the machine isn’t calibrated.

As for using a lie board it’s a bad way to check lies. It’s called a lie board for a reason.

Using the sharpie line test is a far better and more accurate way to measure.

https://thesandtrap.com/blogs/entry/18-sharpie-test-easy-way-to-check-your-lie-angles/
 

Also several threads on wrx that talk about why lie boards lie

I will give a sharpie test a try next time I hit some balls. Im pretty curious now. 
It would be sad if I need to go back and bend them upright again 

But I feel pretty confident the irons are at a good lie angle.

I hit some balls today after the tweak on the launch monitor and they were starting in line perfectly. Just wasn't having a draw flight like I use to have.

-- But again, I hit like 5 balls.. so Ill do some more testings

Thank you

[rapa7846]

3 hours ago, revkev said:

That's what you get for having those beautiful forged blades!    I'm sure it felt good to share that - hitting on mats a lot with those clubs doesn't help, either.  You should probably check them periodically.  Now that you know they are right you can let it rip.  Good luck!

Sorry for the double post - I'm having a night.   I like the sharpie test - another one is the business card test - they both work fine.  

I only want straight crispy divots on the grass range. Thats all I ask!! haha. 
Yeah I'll def keep an eye out on my lie angles from now on 

[revkev]

5 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

And that is? Never heard of that one 

Ridiculously simple. Go on a flat hard surface. Take your normal grip and stance with a club. Have someone slide a business card under the toe of the club. Should stop in the middle of the face. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

12 hours ago, rapa7846 said:

Hello MGS Community, 

I had my iron's loft and lie checked today at the PGA superstore and I was very surprised. 

I thought I'd share my story - maybe a good entertainment reading for those stuck at home on a beautiful day (for who knows what reasons )

 

Just a little background story: 

Recently, my avid golfer friend who is a plus handicap told me that he gets his iron's loft and lie checked every year -- sometimes multiple times a year.

And I'd thought I'd give my iron a check-up. I mean why not? right?

I got my irons fitted about a year and a half ago by True Spec, and never had my iron's loft and lie checked after that.

and I recently ordered my wedges from Taylormade and had them custom-build me a 50, 54 @55, and 60. 

 

I had a few reasons I wanted to get my irons checked. 

First reason: my irons were hooking to the left.

I never really had this issue before. I use to play a fade, and nowadays I aim to play a push draw; however, even when my swing feels solid, I would notice my ball starting left of my aim and hooking. 

For the past few months, I always blamed myself since my swing would be the biggest issue. 

Second reason: I practice on a mat on a daily basis; however, when a golf course has a grass range, I always go early before the round to enjoy hitting off the grass. 

I never achieved great-looking straight divots- and I, again, always blamed myself since my swing would be the biggest issue. 

 

WRONG. (Kind of - )

 

While I'm not a tour pro of any kind, I honestly think my swing isn't bad. I teach golf to students, and I hit the ball pretty solid. 

I think I would be able to bring down my handicap if I had more time to practice short approaches under 100 yards and chipping, but it's harder to get those practices in when I'm living in a more urban area. (Grass practice not readily available nearby)

But anyway, bottom line, I consider my short game the limiting factor to better golf, not my swing. 

 

To continue on with the story: 

I went into the store today and asked for my lie angle to be checked. 

My first few swings with my 7 iron on a lie board and I got a result that I needed my irons -2 degree flat.

This was very surprising to know because my irons were already flatter than any irons on the market. 

I use a Miura MC501 irons which have 61 degrees of lie. 

For comparison, John Rahm's Callaway Apex TCB has 62 degrees of lie, Taylormade P7MC has 62.5 degrees of Lie etc. 

In summary, my Irons are already flat.  But I needed 2 more degrees of flatness. 

 

Initially, before visiting when I was doing my research on what my iron's standard specs were -- I actually wanted to tweak my clubs to a more upright lie position. 

Don't ask me why, but that was my thought... ( Looking back, I honestly do not know why I wanted to move my irons upright.)

But when the fitter told me I need my irons -2 degrees flat, I was in disbelief. 

I asked if I could check the 9 iron. Same. -2 degrees.  

I asked if I could check the 5 Iron. Same. -2 degrees. 

 

So now in belief that I need to change all my irons to -2 degrees flat, I walked up to the counter and made a request for these changes, and handed over my lofts for each iron. 

As he was checking the irons, he told me all my iron lofts were off. Either a degree stronger or two degrees weaker. 

Last year, I carried my 8 iron 164. This year I carried my 8 iron 155.  It wasn't the swing!  It was the loft!

I stood there shocked and a lot of my recent miss shots started making sense. 

I was carrying my 9 iron 148. But my 8 Iron 155.  9 Iron was 1 degree stronger than standard, and my 8 iron was 2 degrees weaker.  What surprise!

The club fitter told me that soft metal irons like mine get bent easily and the loft changes as I swing and interact with the ground.

 

After he was done, I asked if he could check my wedges -- I noticed, I was carrying them further these days. Not by much but just a little over the flag -- EVERYTIME.

I bought these wedges and had Taylormade custom build it for me maybe two months ago and I assume they built it right. 

But my 50-degree wedge was at 49.  My 54 @ 55-degree wedge was at 54. My 60-degree wedge was at 59.75. 

They were all in a stronger loft than they were supposed to be. 

Shocked.. Again. 

 

After tweaking everything, I went on the lie board and tested a few of my irons. 

I was getting a good middle interaction now, but was getting some fades/cuts. 

I guess now, it's the swing issue.  But the good thing was that all the balls were starting in line. 

and fades were prob happening because the clubs aren't that upright anymore at impact. 

So back to my original point -- yes my swing is the biggest fault but it wasn't the ONLY fault. Ah ha! 

 

After today's experience, I think I'm going to get my irons checked more often. 

Maybe for those who read this far, you should too. -- It might change your misses, maybe save a stroke or two on average during a round with no extra practice!

 

 

I hope my writing wasn't too boring, and if you have similar experiences or thoughts, or reasons, on why irons loft change

Please feel free to share your story with me. 

 

Just my clubs to make the post a tiny bit more interesting

 

Pretty sure it has been mentioned, but I would definitely not base everything or anything off the lie board. 

Lie angle can be given in a general sense using some static measurements, but in the end ball flight is where lie angle should be determined. Drawing or hooking the ball too much? Go flatter. Have too much of a cut or slice? Go more upright. 

A lie board can often lead to the wrong adjustments for ball flight and I wish I could say how many times I was able to manipulate the lie board results to give me a certain number even if that wasn't what was needed. 

Use your lie angle to achieve and make the best ball flight for your game and your swing. Don't read much or at all into lie board results. There is a reason why fitters more and more are throwing them out and never using or thinking about them again!

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Pretty sure it has been mentioned, but I would definitely not base everything or anything off the lie board. 

Lie angle can be given in a general sense using some static measurements, but in the end ball flight is where lie angle should be determined. Drawing or hooking the ball too much? Go flatter. Have too much of a cut or slice? Go more upright. 

A lie board can often lead to the wrong adjustments for ball flight and I wish I could say how many times I was able to manipulate the lie board results to give me a certain number even if that wasn't what was needed. 

Use your lie angle to achieve and make the best ball flight for your game and your swing. Don't read much or at all into lie board results. There is a reason why fitters more and more are throwing them out and never using or thinking about them again!

most  people don't know but there is a set of instruction for the lie board and depending on swing,  you may not want the strike to be center

 

[srooch2]

On 7/1/2023 at 10:32 PM, WaffleHouseTour said:

And that is? Never heard of that one 

How do we join the Waffle House tour? I’m interested 

[WaffleHouseTour]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:38 AM, srooch2 said:

How do we join the Waffle House tour? I’m interested 

Ha!  A long long time ago I was the organizer for a golf trip down south. First time we were headed to the RTJ trail.  We all flew into ATL, rented a van and drove south.  EVERY exit had a Waffle House.  We who live north of the Mason Dixon line had never seen one. There was a Waffle House across the parking lot from the hotel so that was our gathering spot every morning. Every year after - before things became easy to find on the internet - I would pick the location and then call around to hotels to find one adjacent to a Waffle House… our golf trips were forever smothered, covered, and chunked. 

[srooch2]

5 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Ha!  A long long time ago I was the organizer for a golf trip down south. First time we were headed to the RTJ trail.  We all flew into ATL, rented a van and drove south.  EVERY exit had a Waffle House.  We who live north of the Mason Dixon line had never seen one. There was a Waffle House across the parking lot from the hotel so that was our gathering spot every morning. Every year after - before things became easy to find on the internet - I would pick the location and then call around to hotels to find one adjacent to a Waffle House… our golf trips were forever smothered, covered, and chunked. 

Love it…. And I love Waffle House so win win

[Shrek74]

I'm of the simple opinion that after getting new clubs, especially from the big OEM's that they should be taken to a shop to have their loft/lies checked right away. It's very rare that a set comes 100% perfect. Something is always off somewhere in the set. There is a tolerance with the OEM's that allow a degree here and there to be incorrect and still be approved for shipment.

I also think if you game forged clubs (actually forged, not hollow-body that is stamped "Forged" on the hosel) you should probably have them checked before or after each season for the exact reason Rapa7846 had to deal with. Forged clubs do "move" due to their soft steel properties and need a bit more attention on a more regular basis.

Just my $0.02.

[vandyland]

I recently had my lofts and lies checked for their annual check up and I had the same issue as OP mentioned above, my 9 iron was crowding my 8 iron and it was because my 9 iron's loft and lie was off. It seems like every time I get my lofts checked, it is the short irons that are getting moved back. This is likely due to the fact that they get hit more often and I almost exclusively practice with them. If you have forged clubs I would recommend getting them checked, at the very least, every other year. I am now in the annual camp having seen my 9 iron move several degrees in back to back years. 

[d0m41n]

That's wild. I will have to add this to the priority list as I've never considered that could happen. Glad to see some awareness on this!