How do you compare to these distances?

[Javs]

Found an interesting article this morning on iron distances for amateurs by handicap. It’s pretty good, but doesn’t account for age or dispersion. What do you think? My distances are slightly farther than the graph for 0-5. https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/how-far-do-amateur-golfers-hit-their-irons-find-out-how-you-compare?utm_term=CFEB69DA-8695-406A-822D-71925C4B6E39&lrh=afabd56f8788996dec1eed39e53e29756a4fe34c1aff9fa4fdfa9f254cbb042a&utm_campaign=075440B8-601C-4440-A9B1-8A7444061AA8&utm_medium=email&utm_content=65AA19BB-DB1E-4F8E-9E6B-5335E7C10623&utm_source=SmartBrief

[funkyjudge]

I am a 75 year old 13 handicapper, and I find the gaps that Arccos shows for a 10-15 handicap golfer to be too close together for an average male golfer in that handicap range. I don’t play a 4-iron, but I’m about 11 yards longer than that average with my 5-iron, but only about 4-5 yards longer with my 6-iron. By the time it gets to the 7-iron, I’m only 2 yards longer than the average, and I’m actually 2 or 3 yards shorter than average with my 8-iron, 6 yards shorter with my 9-iron and 4 yards shorter with my PW.

Back in my 40s, 50s and into my early 60s, I was in the 5-10 handicap range, and even though I was playing much weaker-lofted irons back then, I was as much as 12-13 yards longer than the averages shown for a 5-10 handicapper with all but my shortest irons (8, 9 and PW), where the averages shown were about spot-on for me back then.

[Javs]

2 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

I am a 75 year old 13 handicapper, and I find the gaps that Arccos shows for a 10-15 handicap golfer to be too close together for an average male golfer in that handicap range. I don’t play a 4-iron, but I’m about 11 yards longer than that average with my 5-iron, but only about 4-5 yards longer with my 6-iron. By the time it gets to the 7-iron, I’m only 2 yards longer than the average, and I’m actually 2 or 3 yards shorter than average with my 8-iron, 6 yards shorter with my 9-iron and 4 yards shorter with my PW.

Back in my 40s, 50s and into my early 60s, I was in the 5-10 handicap range, and even though I was playing much weaker-lofted irons back then, I was as much as 12-13 yards longer than the averages shown for a 5-10 handicapper with all but my shortest irons (8, 9 and PW), where the averages shown were about spot-on for me back then.

I found the article interesting. I think you hit the nail on the head. The flaw with the article is not breaking the distances down further by age. I would also like to see what the strokes are lost or gained when one is longer or shorter than the averages.  That could be tricky because each golfer plays the game different. Plus not all people within a handicap group have the same skill sets or weaknesses. I play with guys that I can out drive by 80 yards. Yet their short games are just incredible. While my strength is hitting a lot of GIR. Longer accurate hitters in my estimation have a big advantage in this game. 

[Hook DeLoft]

The big flaw I see is the difference in iron lofts.   How many are hitting 35 degree 7 irons?  How many are hitting 27 degree 7 irons?  There is also the difference in balls.  A low spin ionomer covered ball flies about 5 yards farther for me with a 9 iron than a Pro V1x. 

[funkyjudge]

1 hour ago, Javs said:

I found the article interesting. I think you hit the nail on the head. The flaw with the article is not breaking the distances down further by age. I would also like to see what the strokes are lost or gained when one is longer or shorter than the averages.  That could be tricky because each golfer plays the game different. Plus not all people within a handicap group have the same skill sets or weaknesses. I play with guys that I can out drive by 80 yards. Yet their short games are just incredible. While my strength is hitting a lot of GIR. Longer accurate hitters in my estimation have a big advantage in this game. 

I think that when you see such small yardage gaps at the top of the iron set, as is the case here between 4, 5 and 6 irons for the higher handicap golfers, it is a clear sign that it’s time to ditch the longer irons. I still swing my middle irons at 80-83 MPH, and get as high as 85 MPH with my 5-iron, but I dumped the 4 iron about 5 years ago. Every time I hear a golfing buddy say “I hit my 5-iron and 6-iron almost exactly the same distance”, I tell them that it is time to retire that 5-iron. I will definitely drop the 5-iron from my bag when I am hitting it less than 170 yards on a consistent basis, and I will replace it with a 5-hybrid (maybe even a 9-wood).

With my stronger-lofted irons (Cobra Forged Tec X model), I usually don’t carry the 5-iron to the set because the 6-iron has a 24* loft, and there is only a 2.5* loft difference between the 5 and 6 irons. However, when I play my much weaker-lofted Maltby TS1 IM irons (or my 2-1/2 year old Tour Edge Exotics C722 “competition spec” irons that have weaker lofts), the 5-iron stays in my bag.

Edited August 24 by funkyjudge

[RetiredBoomer]

3 hours ago, Javs said:

Found an interesting article this morning on iron distances for amateurs by handicap. It’s pretty good, but doesn’t account for age or dispersion. What do you think? My distances are slightly farther than the graph for 0-5. https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/how-far-do-amateur-golfers-hit-their-irons-find-out-how-you-compare?utm_term=CFEB69DA-8695-406A-822D-71925C4B6E39&lrh=afabd56f8788996dec1eed39e53e29756a4fe34c1aff9fa4fdfa9f254cbb042a&utm_campaign=075440B8-601C-4440-A9B1-8A7444061AA8&utm_medium=email&utm_content=65AA19BB-DB1E-4F8E-9E6B-5335E7C10623&utm_source=SmartBrief

I think that even if the chart numbers are valid, they're general,
and with GPS, we suddenly actually know how far we each hit things---when making decent contact.

This knowledge helps not only individual shots, but actual set configuration as well.
Knowing rather than guessing how far I actually hit clubs
is what made me suddenly more critical of the OEMs
than I was before having that information.

They make it impossible for me to get the exact gapping that works best for me 
because I don't like to bend for loft. With today's outrageous prices,
one should get EXACTLY what one wants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Javs]

1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

I think that when you see such small yardage gaps at the top of the iron set, as is the case here between 4, 5 and 6 irons for the higher handicap golfers, it is a clear sign that it’s time to ditch the longer irons. I still swing my middle irons at 80-83 MPH, and get as high as 85 MPH with my 5-iron, but I dumped the 4 iron about 5 years ago. Every time I hear a golfing buddy say “I hit my 5-iron and 6-iron almost exactly the same distance”, I tell them that it is time to retire that 5-iron. I will definitely drop the 5-iron from my bag when I am hitting it less than 170 yards on a consistent basis, and I will replace it with a 5-hybrid (maybe even a 9-wood).

With my stronger-lofted irons (Cobra Forged Tec X model), I usually don’t carry the 5-iron to the set because the 6-iron has a 24* loft, and there is only a 2.5* loft difference between the 5 and 6 irons. However, when I play my much weaker-lofted Maltby TS1 IM irons (or my 2-1/2 year old Tour Edge Exotics C722 “competition spec” irons that have weaker lofts), the 5-iron stays in my bag.

Agree I carry three hybrids

[RetiredBoomer]

1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

I think that when you see such small yardage gaps at the top of the iron set, as is the case here between 4, 5 and 6 irons for the higher handicap golfers, it is a clear sign that it’s time to ditch the longer irons. I still swing my middle irons at 80-83 MPH, and get as high as 85 MPH with my 5-iron, but I dumped the 4 iron about 5 years ago. Every time I hear a golfing buddy say “I hit my 5-iron and 6-iron almost exactly the same distance”, I tell them that it is time to retire that 5-iron. I will definitely drop the 5-iron from my bag when I am hitting it less than 170 yards on a consistent basis, and I will replace it with a 5-hybrid (maybe even a 9-wood).

With my stronger-lofted irons (Cobra Forged Tec X model), I usually don’t carry the 5-iron to the set because the 6-iron has a 24* loft, and there is only a 2.5* loft difference between the 5 and 6 irons. However, when I play my much weaker-lofted Maltby TS1 IM irons (or my 2-1/2 year old Tour Edge Exotics C722 “competition spec” irons that have weaker lofts), the 5-iron stays in my bag.

Everybody doesn't hit hybrids well.
I, for one, can't stop turning them over.  
For me, they're hook machines, better replaced by either long irons or higher lofted woods..

Still, I agree with you about irons, only I prefer a different solution.

I think some of us really need wider gapped iron sets.
Strengthening the lofts on GI clubs was a marketing answer, not a GOLF answer.
What GI clubs really need is wider gapping between the lofts.

I'm sure that the engineers understand that.
It's the business suits that do not.
I really believe that.

 

[cnosil]

I think it is an article that simply support the notion that correlates distance to playing ability.   Those that hit the ball farther are typically better golfers.   My distances are longer than the longer the 0-5 handicap range even though I fall into the 5-10 handicap range.   

IMO the general takeaway:  Hit the ball farther correlates to shorter distances to greens so more GIR and lower overall scores so better handicaps.    This is a very general article designed to explain some data analytics to golfers that don't typically dig into those metrics.   Looking at types of clubs or clubs lofts isn't a consideration of the article.  

[Javs]

10 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

Everybody doesn't hit hybrids well.
I, for one, can't stop turning them over.  
For me, they're hook machines, better replaced by either long irons or higher lofted woods..

Still, I agree with you about irons, only I prefer a different solution.

I think some of us really need wider gapped iron sets.
Strengthening the lofts on GI clubs was a marketing answer, not a GOLF answer.
What GI clubs really need is wider gapping between the lofts.

I'm sure that the engineers understand that.
It's the business suits that do not.
I really believe that.

 

I can agree the solutions are golfer dependent. One size doesn’t fit all in this sport. Plus, even the individual golfer’s needs change over time. 

[Javs]

6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think it is an article that simply support the notion that correlates distance to playing ability.   Those that hit the ball farther are typically better golfers.   My distances are longer than the longer the 0-5 handicap range even though I fall into the 5-10 handicap range.   

IMO the general takeaway:  Hit the ball farther correlates to shorter distances to greens so more GIR and lower overall scores so better handicaps.    This is a very general article designed to explain some data analytics to golfers that don't typically dig into those metrics.   Looking at types of clubs or clubs lofts isn't a consideration of the article.  

I agree with you and was sort of the points I was trying to bring out in some of my replies.

[Shapotomous]

I am a couple yards under the listed yardage from 5i thru pw for the 0-5.  I dont carry a 4i but use a hybrid instead 

[Middler]

2 hours ago, Hook DeLoft said:

The big flaw I see is the difference in iron lofts.   How many are hitting 35 degree 7 irons?  How many are hitting 27 degree 7 irons?  There is also the difference in balls.  A low spin ionomer covered ball flies about 5 yards farther for me with a 9 iron than a Pro V1x. 

Charts like that have little meaning anymore when you can buy irons with a wide variety of lofts nowadays, it's absurd you can buy a 7i with lofts ranging from 35º to 26.5º.

[RetiredBoomer]

8 minutes ago, Middler said:

Charts like that have little meaning anymore when you can buy irons with a wide variety of lofts nowadays, it's absurd you can buy a 7i with lofts ranging from 35º to 26.5º.

Louisville Golf T. Stewart iron set:

7-iron, 44°!

[Ole Miss Rebel]

I am at about the graph distances for my long irons and about 5% less for my short irons. Most of this is due to injuries I have suffered in the last few years. After two years of physical therapy and a change of the mechanics of my swing my long irons are back and maybe 5 to 10 yards longer when I am fresh, back to average after 18. My short irons are different, I think due to some changes in my swing, accuracy is still good. I am still using my PT rubber bands for training and very lightweight free weights.

[fixyurdivot]

Presuming these numbers mostly reflect a median age group of 30-40 year old players, they are pretty close to my yardages/index.  I'd also venture to guess that much of this data is with more aggressive lofted clubs... note I did not say "jacked lofts" and wants extra credit .  I say this because the era of jacked lofts (oops, more aggressive lofts) coincides with on-course data collecting technology.

I actually found this chart most interesting and, at least in the case for my game/scoring, important.

I annotate on scorecards "F" and "G" and keep tabs on both. Once again, this chart is consistent with my GIR's and index.

Edited August 24 by fixyurdivot

[Javs]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Presuming these numbers mostly reflect a median age group of 30-40 year old players, they are pretty close to my yardages/index.  I'd also venture to guess that much of this data is with more aggressive lofted clubs... note I did not say "jacked lofts" and wants extra credit .  I say this because the era of jacked lofts (oops, more aggressive lofts) coincides with on-course data collecting technology.

I actually found this chart most interesting and, at least in the case for my game/scoring, important.

I annotate on scorecards "F" and "G" and keep tabs on both. Once again, this chart is consistent with my GIR's and index.

I actually found the chart you presented more interesting. 

[Shapotomous]

3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Presuming these numbers mostly reflect a median age group of 30-40 year old players, they are pretty close to my yardages/index.  I'd also venture to guess that much of this data is with more aggressive lofted clubs... note I did not say "jacked lofts" and wants extra credit .  I say this because the era of jacked lofts (oops, more aggressive lofts) coincides with on-course data collecting technology.

I actually found this chart most interesting and, at least in the case for my game/scoring, important.

I annotate on scorecards "F" and "G" and keep tabs on both. Once again, this chart is consistent with my GIR's and index.

Do you know if those %'s are from everywhere (fairway, rough, trees, heather, etc) or just fairways?

[Javs]

26 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Do you know if those %'s are from everywhere (fairway, rough, trees, heather, etc) or just fairways?

I think it was just raw distances 

[Overspark07]

These are total distance numbers? Not just carry, correct?

[cnosil]

38 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Do you know if those %'s are from everywhere (fairway, rough, trees, heather, etc) or just fairways?

The article doesn't clarify so I would say that it is from everywhere.  

3 minutes ago, Overspark07 said:

These are total distance numbers? Not just carry, correct?

Shot tracking systems like Arccos; which is where the data was obtained,  only give total distance numbers.

[Javs]

7 minutes ago, Overspark07 said:

These are total distance numbers? Not just carry, correct?

I would say the article did not specify, but raw total distance

[silver & black]

I don't hold much stock in charts and such. When I was younger I hit my 7 iron 160/165. At 65 I'm at 140/145. I have lost the most distance with irons as I get older. The driver is still pretty good at an average of 240/250... and farther on good days. Irons are too different in loft, weighting, head design, game improvement, players distance, players cavity etc... to fairly make even an average assumption of distance... IMO.

As others have said, I haven't found a hybrid that I don't hook off the planet... yet. I use my 4 iron off the tee and for punch outs from the woods and other undesirable areas. Other than that, forget about it. 

 

[Hacker60521]

19 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

IMO the general takeaway:  Hit the ball farther correlates to shorter distances to greens so more GIR and lower overall scores so better handicaps.    This is a very general article designed to explain some data analytics to golfers that don't typically dig into those metrics.   Looking at types of clubs or clubs lofts isn't a consideration of the article.  

I completely agree with @cnosil on this article. It’s definitely illustrative and not meant to be definitive. Plus there is a bit of marketing around this since it’s a nice way for Arrcos to share their data with a broad audience. Personally, per the distance tables I should be 5-20 depending on what distances I compare. What I already knew is that my longer clubs and driver are on the shorter distance end, but my mid and short irons I’m a 5-10. But I could have told you that my long game was my weakness.

[Erin B]

23 hours ago, Javs said:

Found an interesting article this morning on iron distances for amateurs by handicap. It’s pretty good, but doesn’t account for age or dispersion. What do you think? My distances are slightly farther than the graph for 0-5. https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/how-far-do-amateur-golfers-hit-their-irons-find-out-how-you-compare?utm_term=CFEB69DA-8695-406A-822D-71925C4B6E39&lrh=afabd56f8788996dec1eed39e53e29756a4fe34c1aff9fa4fdfa9f254cbb042a&utm_campaign=075440B8-601C-4440-A9B1-8A7444061AA8&utm_medium=email&utm_content=65AA19BB-DB1E-4F8E-9E6B-5335E7C10623&utm_source=SmartBrief

I’ve always hit my irons long. I’m longer than what the 0-5 is. I’m probably shorter on my driver/woods. Especially this year, I’ve not hit the driver long at all. Good read though! 

[funkyjudge]

22 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

Everybody doesn't hit hybrids well.
I, for one, can't stop turning them over.  
For me, they're hook machines, better replaced by either long irons or higher lofted woods..

Still, I agree with you about irons, only I prefer a different solution.

I think some of us really need wider gapped iron sets.
Strengthening the lofts on GI clubs was a marketing answer, not a GOLF answer.
What GI clubs really need is wider gapping between the lofts.

I'm sure that the engineers understand that.
It's the business suits that do not.
I really believe that.

 

There are several hybrid models that are virtually hook or draw proof. In addition, clubs like the Callaway UW (Utility Wood) are a cross between a hybrid and a fairway wood, with a hybrid shaft length, and these clubs are designed for golfers who tend to draw or hook their hybrids.

[funkyjudge]

22 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

Everybody doesn't hit hybrids well.
I, for one, can't stop turning them over.  
For me, they're hook machines, better replaced by either long irons or higher lofted woods..

Still, I agree with you about irons, only I prefer a different solution.

I think some of us really need wider gapped iron sets.
Strengthening the lofts on GI clubs was a marketing answer, not a GOLF answer.
What GI clubs really need is wider gapping between the lofts.

I'm sure that the engineers understand that.
It's the business suits that do not.
I really believe that.

 

You are absolutely correct in saying that GI irons need wider gapping between their lofts, especially in the longer irons.

[William P]

Decent article, although it leaves many variables open, as everyone has pointed out, for consideration. Does, however, provide a somewhat objective means for self-analysis if you are so inclined. I find myself between ranges depending on club selection with longer irons 4,5,6 being in the 0-5 HDCP range and 7-PW in the 5-10 range where I currently reside.

[Off Map Oscar]

40.

11.3 handicap 

[funkyjudge]

1 minute ago, Off Map Oscar said:

40.

11.3 handicap 

You have some serious yardage gapping issues in that setup. I suspect that some of your iron lofts need to be looked at and probably adjusted. As a professional club fitter, this is one of the first things that I do when I do a fitting, if the golfer wants to stay with their current irons/hybrids.