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Reading greens....gahhhhhhh


Sluggo42

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I can see the big turns, but am clueless on the subtle turns, often even going the wrong way. Are there any tips that you guys can relate that might help me, like plumb-bobbing or something else? It's really irritating to miss 4-5 footers cuz I missed the 2 ball break...

 

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:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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I started plumb-bobbing several years ago and that at least helps me see the break and from there I usually have a pretty good idea.

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Driver:  :taylormade-small: Qi10 LS 9* HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60 TX

Fairway:  :taylormade-small: BRNR Mini Driver Copper 13.5* HZRDUS Yellow 76 TX

Fairway:  :taylormade-small: Sim 19* RDX Smoke Red 75 TX

Hybrid:  :taylormade-small: Sim2 Rescue 22* Matrix Black Tie 85x

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Wedges:  :callaway-small: Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner

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Ball: :srixon-small: Z Star Diamond

 

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Walk the line to the hole close to the ball but not directly on the line and you can feel the contours with your feet. Once you've walked it, then when you squat and look it's easier to see. I also squat behind my ball and make a tunnel with my hands to look through. It filters outside stuff and helps see the line better. If all else fails , polarized shades also help as they make it easier to see as well.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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+1 on walking the line.  Also walk perpendicular behind the ball to feel the overall high spot (or low spot) on the green closest to your ball.

 

You may want to check out some of the Aimpoint stuff, I've heard it's great for green reading.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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+1 on the aim point. I also like the thing about imagining if the cup was full of water and how it would fall out to find the low side or straight up hill put then it gives me a better idea of how the putt will break based on where it is in relation to the low side. Aimpoint works this way except in a much more technical fashion telling you how much it will break based on Where your ball is in position to the low side and how steep the grade is you are on.

 

aim point.png

 

It's all about the short game, unless you can't keep it in play!

What's in my Bag:
Driver: Adams Speedline Super LS 10.5 with Excalibur T7+ tour stiff shaft
3 Wood: Adams Speedline Super LS 13 degree with Excalibur TFW Tour stiff shaft
Hybrid: Nickent 6DT 19 degree Aldilla Voodoo NV Stiff shaft
Irons: 4-9 KZG Tour Evolution with Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 tour 120 x flex shafts
Wedges:49 degree Dave Pelz wedge with a Nippon N.S. Pro Modus tour 120 x flex shaft. 54,64 Dave Pelz wedges with Rifle spinner shafts 59 Degree Scor wedge with rifle spinner shaft.
Putter: Bentinardi Ben Hogan Big Ben Center shafted 33 inches with best grips custom pistol putter grip.

Ball: Titleist Pro V1X, Callaway Hex Chrome +

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So I read up just a bit on the aim point and it struck me that they were using a bubble level.

 

So I downloaded a free surface level onto my iPhone. When set on anything, the bubble showes exactly if there is a tilt.

 

I don't know if it's legal to set your phone down on the green to read the tilt OT not, but I'm going to anyways, while doing all the other suggestions, and hopefully my brain starts to see it...

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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Nope not legal, but why not use it in practice to see if the other techniques are working?

 

 

My putting lessons over the summer lead me to the conclusion I was really over thinking the reading of putts. So now, I'm reading the line walking to the green and try and look once from the other side. That's it. If it looks very flat then I may walk half the length of the putt and try and feel seeming under my feet.

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

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TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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No, using a bubble level isn't legal. Neither is using a smartphone because it has the ability to measure wind

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I am amazed at both how well and how poorly I putt sometimes.  It is crazy that some days it seems as if the line is painted on the ground, and other days it seems as though I could not roll a putt in if it was on a Hot Wheels Track.

 

As I have stated many times I am a fan of "Instinct Putting".  You can click the link below in my signature and read more about it. 

 

Most golfers have the direction and distance thing backwards.  The are so focused off the teebox and on approach shots on distance.  Then when they get on the green they obsess over the direction.  In reality, direction off the teebox and approach shots is more important and distance on the green is far more important than direction.  The simple fact is that you do not 3 putt normally because you did not read the break properly.  Rarely do you miss read the break by 5 or more feet.  You 3 putt because you are 5 or more feet long or short.  For this reason, I focus more on the distance of the first putt.

 

I simply look to see which way the ball has to enter the cup for the last 6 inches.  Then "feel" like I have the right speed and hit the ball.  I have had to learn to keep my mouth shut also because several times I have hit a putt and wondered where the heck I was aiming it when all of a sudden it turns and goes into or at least towards the hole.  It is very embarrassing for a putt to fall in the hole while you are throwing a fit because you hit it so poorly. 

 

But to me the secret to a great putting day is that putts longer than 4 feet, the object is to stop the ball just inside the hole.  Any putt less than 4 feet you want firm to the back.  Most short putts are missed because you were so worried about the line you allowed it to wander off line, where if you would have been a touch more aggressive and hit it firmly than it would have held its line. 

 

Also, if you do miss a short one because it was too aggressive than be sure to watch the ball.  That will give you the break coming back.

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No, using a bubble level isn't legal. Neither is using a smartphone because it has the ability to measure wind

Measure wind?

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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Great thread, +1 on aim point and I like Rick's perspective on the importance of distance.

What's In the Bag

Driver - :callaway-small: GBB 

Hybrids  :cleveland-small: Halo XL Halo 18* & :cobra-small: T-Rail 20*

Irons  :cobra-small: T-Rail 2.0

Wedges :ping-small: 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58*

Putter     :scotty-small:

Ball :callaway-logo-1:

Bag Datrek DG Lite  

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Great thread, +1 on aim point and I like Rick's perspective on the importance of distance.

 

I got in 9 holes this morning before the freezing weather (35*) and 18 mph wind forced us to reconsider our decision to play. :ph34r:   On the third hole I had about a 100 foot putt.  It had three different breaks and a couple of hills and wind and leaves blowing in the way.  I thought about this thread and my advice.  I looked at the hole and decided that it had to enter the cup from the 5 o'clock position.  I then focused on how hard to hit it.  I hit the putt and started walking towards the hole.  It seemed to roll for about 5 minutes and the other guys were talking about how good it looked.  I thought that I had hit a good one but 2 feet out it turned and then entered the cup with it last dying roll.  BOOM! 

 

It was the first of 3 birdies in a row.  I struck the ball pretty poorly today, we all did.  We had on so much clothing it was like I could not swing freely, and the ball simply did not go far, but excellent putting and decent chipping allowed me to shoot even par and win 6 of 9 holes.  Then we called it quits and went to the bar.

 

But the moral of the story is I had two very long putts on par 5's that went into the hole and in both instances I did not get too wrapped up in trying to read the break but instead focused on the speed.  The other birdie was from a bladed 9 iron that somehow found the green and stopped 8 feet from the hole.  It was a breaking putt that speed was also critical.

 

I also missed four putts from not getting the speed perfect, but had easy second putts for par or bogey.

:ping-small: G430 LST 10. on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small: G430 Max 15°  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small: iCrossover 3i on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:ping-small:  iCrossover 4i  on Graphite Design ADDI 7S 

:ping-small:  i525 5-U on :kbs: TGI 90 S 

:vokey-small: SM9 54° & 58° on :truetemper: Wedge 

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All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

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Pretty sure your only allowed to look at weather forecasts! Not get exact wind readings, the idea was to reduce risk of accidents from electrical storms I thought.

 

Rover is right of course, get the speed right and you won't be too far away. But I recognise that issue of missing the hole from 3 or 4 feet, not even hitting the lip - that's agonising. Of course you need to borrow less the firmer you hit the putt.....

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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No they made the point that whatever wind speed information you get from your phone, one, will not be read at your exact location and time and will not accurately reflect the immediate conditions on the course, and two, what you observe where you're standing means more than anything the phone gives you, so who cares what the phone says anyway as far as judging how it may affect the ball flight.

 

Can you imagine someone checking their phone and then trying to figure out exactly what direction North is to determine wind direction?  Watching the flag, treetops and dropping a few blades of grass will tell you what's going on better than anything a phone can give you.  Even the temps on the phone will be give or take depending on where you are.

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I suddenly had an image of an iPhone with a small windmill plugged in to gauge the speed!

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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Lots of good stuff on utube, the fall line, apex, putting line. All good, but if you still can't "see" the break, you probably aren't gunna make it.

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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I bet you see more break than you actually think you do.  As it said in my Instinct Putting thread, I was a horrible putter.  My problem was that I saw the break and naturally adjusted to it, unconsciously.  Then I would think that I needed to play the putt 6 inches out left and aimed 6 inches out left.  I would hit the putt and then the ball would go 6 inches left.  Dammit, I miss read the putt.  I did this for years.

 

It was not until I decided to not think about the break that all of a sudden I started making putts.

 

I line up directly behind the ball, then move left or right until it "Feels Right" and then get over the ball, look at the hole, when it feels right I pull the trigger.  I may or may not take practice strokes.  I average 24 putts a round so it works for me.

 

However, I will admit that if I can not get a "feel" for the greens then that number can go up drastically.

:ping-small: G430 LST 10. on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small: G430 Max 15°  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small: iCrossover 3i on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:ping-small:  iCrossover 4i  on Graphite Design ADDI 7S 

:ping-small:  i525 5-U on :kbs: TGI 90 S 

:vokey-small: SM9 54° & 58° on :truetemper: Wedge 

:L.A.B.: DF2.1 on :accra: White

:L.A.B.: LINK1on     T P T    Putter        (on order)

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

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24 putts a round? Jeepers, I average about 30 at best

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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I have to agree with RR, I have always relied on putting since I am not the longest hitter out there, especially in some of our sectional events that take us to 7200+ yards. I generally like to take a look from behind the ball and then a quick glance from what I believe to be the high side of the break, just a step to that side from behind the ball and then set up and pick my point of reference to be what I believe to be the height of the break and putt to that. After a while, you will be surprised at how comfortable you get at reading the more subtle breaks.

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Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve
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Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black
Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28

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Dave Stockton advises to only read from the low side, less confusing...

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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Dave Stockton advises to only read from the low side, less confusing...

Hard to argue with him, but personally it makes it easier for me to look down from the high point, probably just how my brain processes. The consistency between our thoughts (I'm proud that I share at least one thought with him) is to minimize the thoughts and chance for second guessing yourself.

Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited
Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430
Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve
Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125
Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black
Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28

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I forgot to add,,putting is actually my favorite part of golf. ( as sick as that sounds...lol) ..I love the strategy in it.. When I'm old gray and all washed up in life..I'm going to have someone drop me off at the course,,and I will just putt all day

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I hated putting for a long time.  When I would play by myself, I would not even bother to putt.  I got really good at chipping but then there came a point where I decided I was going to have to master the putter.  Or more importantly, think that I have mastered the putter.  You never really master anything in golf.  Shoot 5 consecutive rounds in the 60's and then spend 3 weeks struggling to break 80.  So I bought an expensive putter (by my standards at the time) and made it my favorite club.

 

I paint fill my putters.  I put leather grips and fancy covers on them. (insert Best Grips/Puttershoe commercial here.) Then I really embraced that part of the game.  It truly is the best part of my game now.  Most of the time.

 

Also, if you can putt it takes so much strain off the rest of your game. 

 

By looking at the hole and focusing on speed, I make a disproportionate amount of long putts.  It is devistating in match play do drain a long one in when they have a medium length, however, never forget that the object is to not three putt.  It is almost as devistating to them if they know you have a tap in or just tapped in from a long way away.

:ping-small: G430 LST 10. on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small: G430 Max 15°  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small: iCrossover 3i on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:ping-small:  iCrossover 4i  on Graphite Design ADDI 7S 

:ping-small:  i525 5-U on :kbs: TGI 90 S 

:vokey-small: SM9 54° & 58° on :truetemper: Wedge 

:L.A.B.: DF2.1 on :accra: White

:L.A.B.: LINK1on     T P T    Putter        (on order)

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

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I am like RR in that I have always been an instinct putter. I do plumb bob always have. depending on the undulation of the greens I may look on all the sides of the putt. On technique I vary some putts I hit a die putt on some I hit what I call the "ram jam" it is just basically what my instincts tell me to do. I am also a little wristy according to these golf gurus but that is from growing up putting on 328 bremuda greens. Putting has always been the best part of my game along with my chipping and wedge play. I actually love practicing putting and chipping and that is from my youth. I grew up literally in the middle of a 9 hole regulation and 9 hole par 3 course. One of the par 3 holes was 100 yds from my house and I constantly chipped and putted on it. Now I spend 90% of my practice time chipping and putting. That's what has always kept me in the game. You simply have to find a method that works for you and WORK with it and I think you will be able to gain skill and confidence with it. Good Luck

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- - 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R---- Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex steel shafts--- SW -- Cleveland 588 56* S-400 Sensicore --- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Fluted Bulls Eye shaft--- Bag TM Flex Lite Stand---- Yeah I know only 11 clubs 

 

 

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I suddenly had an image of an iPhone with a small windmill plugged in to gauge the speed!

LMAO! I was thinking the exact same thing. Of course I am not a High Tech Redneck and I am not smart enough to use a smart phone so I have a valid line for an excuse to think that way

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- - 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R---- Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex steel shafts--- SW -- Cleveland 588 56* S-400 Sensicore --- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Fluted Bulls Eye shaft--- Bag TM Flex Lite Stand---- Yeah I know only 11 clubs 

 

 

 G

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Haha! There's an app for that.

Seriously????

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- - 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R---- Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex steel shafts--- SW -- Cleveland 588 56* S-400 Sensicore --- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter 1997 Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Fluted Bulls Eye shaft--- Bag TM Flex Lite Stand---- Yeah I know only 11 clubs 

 

 

 G

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