Starting from scratch with the swing....

[kygolfer1980]

I have been playing golf for around 12 years now. No lessons for the 1st half of that and I got myself into some bad habits. Once I started getting lessons I started to improve but it has never been consistent. I got down to a 7 handicap 2 years ago and maintained it last year although it was usually a couple of really good rounds followed by a few horrible rounds. This year, I can barely break 90. I shot 83 once and thought it might be coming together but I was wrong. Played 36 at a really nice and tough course yesterday, the kind that exposes handicaps. I shot 95, 91 with the only highlight being an eagle on the 36th hole. Spent all day upset with my game and put a damper on a beautiful day. Got in touch with my instructor and we are going to start Monday on revamping my swing. My swing is ugly, inconsistent, and I have always been a sweeper of the golf ball. We are gonna hopefully get me a repeatable, decent looking swing and teach me how to take a divot. I think I am robbing myself of yards with the irons the way I have always struck the ball. Anyone here ever taken on a drastic swing change like this? I wonder how long it will take me to get to where I want to be? I am willing to put in the work time permitting. Getting prepared for a ton of frustration...

[kygolfer1980]

Also a piece of advice for newer golfers.... Spend money on lessons and practice time instead of new equipment. I can't tell you how much I regret not getting a solid foundation when I started. The shiny clubs I was buying have come and gone, the swing is still flawed. I can't help but think where I could be had I made the right decisions. I love this game more than any other, don't wanna give up on it but it sure has been keeping me down lately when I play.

[Mr_Theoo]

I'm going through the same thing right now. It is hard and you will get very frustrated but stick with it. The one thing that worked in my favor is I've only played golf for a year so my bad habits were a little easier to break.

[Matt Saternus]

I have been playing golf for around 12 years now. No lessons for the 1st half of that and I got myself into some bad habits. Once I started getting lessons I started to improve but it has never been consistent. I got down to a 7 handicap 2 years ago and maintained it last year although it was usually a couple of really good rounds followed by a few horrible rounds. This year, I can barely break 90. I shot 83 once and thought it might be coming together but I was wrong. Played 36 at a really nice and tough course yesterday, the kind that exposes handicaps. I shot 95, 91 with the only highlight being an eagle on the 36th hole. Spent all day upset with my game and put a damper on a beautiful day. Got in touch with my instructor and we are going to start Monday on revamping my swing. My swing is ugly, inconsistent, and I have always been a sweeper of the golf ball. We are gonna hopefully get me a repeatable, decent looking swing and teach me how to take a divot. I think I am robbing myself of yards with the irons the way I have always struck the ball. Anyone here ever taken on a drastic swing change like this? I wonder how long it will take me to get to where I want to be? I am willing to put in the work time permitting. Getting prepared for a ton of frustration...

 

Hate to sound like Sean Foley, but check out The Talent Code if you want to know more about what it really takes to learn new habits/skills.

Simple answer is that it probably won't take less than a couple years to make real changes and be comfortable with them.

[JMiller]

I have been playing golf for around 12 years now. No lessons for the 1st half of that and I got myself into some bad habits. Once I started getting lessons I started to improve but it has never been consistent. I got down to a 7 handicap 2 years ago and maintained it last year although it was usually a couple of really good rounds followed by a few horrible rounds. This year, I can barely break 90. I shot 83 once and thought it might be coming together but I was wrong. Played 36 at a really nice and tough course yesterday, the kind that exposes handicaps. I shot 95, 91 with the only highlight being an eagle on the 36th hole. Spent all day upset with my game and put a damper on a beautiful day.

I was in this position right after college maybe a little lower scores then you but same principle. I went from a solid 1-4 handicap in college to a 8-12 handicap by 2011, going from 76 and better rounds to barely breaking 90 sucks, it's frustrating as hell that is for sure.

 

It wasn't until 2012 that I started working with my current instructor (Bruce Rearick, Burnt Edges Consulting) on putting then eventually full swing that I started to improve again. We have been working for a year now and I'm just now starting to feel conferable in my tweaks / changes. I got golfer's elbow last season so medically and physically I had to make a change for longevity. They were all tweaks they were never really a complete re-build. However the tweaks did lead from me being one-plane (Ben Hogan) swing to a hybrid plane (Greg Norman) swing, two completely different swing models but the intention was not to change models originally.

 

 

Got in touch with my instructor and we are going to start Monday on revamping my swing. My swing is ugly, inconsistent, and I have always been a sweeper of the golf ball. We are gonna hopefully get me a repeatable, decent looking swing and teach me how to take a divot. I think I am robbing myself of yards with the irons the way I have always struck the ball.

You don't have to have a lot of distance to be successful in golf, there is always a forward tee the might make it more enjoyable for you. There are also players like Zack Johnson that play huge courses and are shorter hitters but their accuracy is off the charts. They make up for a lack of distance with their accuracy and course management. If you can't get there lay up to a good wedge yardage and stick it close. You can sheer the sheep many ways and get it done without worrying about distance all the time. Steve Stricker is not that big of a hitter and is a sweeper that man has a hell of a wedge game and a putter. I can find other examples of guys on tour that get it done that are not named Bubba Watson

 

Anyone here ever taken on a drastic swing change like this? I wonder how long it will take me to get to where I want to be? I am willing to put in the work time permitting. Getting prepared for a ton of frustration...

I have never gone into a lesson or series of lessons wanting to change my entire swing. I have only gone to them trying to perfect and fine tune my swing. I have had major changes happen as a result of tweaking something but it was never my intentions I just went with what was feeling natural to me and then tweaked it to improve it.

 

Tiger Woods takes over a year to even START to feel good about a major swing revamp, this is a man that puts in more work towards golf then I have time to and I think most people would have the time and dedication to do. Butch Harmon makes a comment along the lines of just how much work has to be put in to actually achieve a full wing revamp here >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PplQjd6ZP88

 

Ask yourself and talk with your instructor about your end goals, what do you want to achieve from your game and in golf. Do you want to play in national level tournaments one day or do you just want to shave a few strokes and enjoy a weekend round a bit more. I think the planning and the way to approach improvement is different depending on the long term goals.

 

 

Regardless of if you are completely overhauling the swing or tweaking it, it will take a lot of time and effort to get it right to the point you can trust it and do it sub-consciously

[JMiller]

Anyways, everyone hits what I like to call "The Wall". This is just a point where they can't seem to score any better but they don't seem to have very ballooned high rounds either. They are a "solid" x handicap without much variance. You find this more in the lower handicaps then the higher ones I think.

 

From 2009 to 2011 I really spent a lot of time screwing up my game, like I said i went from a1-4 to a 8-12. I thought I had swing issues and looking back at it really it probably wasn't 100% swing issues, some of it yes but a lot of the problem was mental. After 1 year of completely tweaking and grinding out my swing to make it better because i built in so many bad habits that were a result of a false cause of hitting the wall, i realized to check the following stuff before anything else:

 

~ Are my clubs fit to my game do they have the right specifications?

~ Are my fundamentals like grip, posture, alignment, etc okay?

~ Are my course management skills and club selection / game plan skills okay?

~ Are my mental management and decision making abilities okay?

 

I think for me I can pinpoint almost all of my bad holes to course management / mental decision making anymore, I tend to check the specs on my equipment each Fall. I always work on my process and alignment all the time, my posture just to keep from getting lazy and having it lead to swing issues. Majority of the time I can say that my bad holes are mental errors in either course management or laziness not being focused enough on my targets.

 

 

You will get there, just stick to what changes you are trying to make espesually when the going get really rough.

[kygolfer1980]

Hate to sound like Sean Foley, but check out The Talent Code if you want to know more about what it really takes to learn new habits/skills.

Simple answer is that it probably won't take less than a couple years to make real changes and be comfortable with them.

Ordered it, looks like it could be very useful for much more than golf.

[Tyk]

Good luck man, I think in some ways, big changes are easier than smaller ones. For little tweaks, it is easy for muscle memory and habit to take over when the mind loses focus. If you're completely changing things, then you have to think about what you are doing, but your body doesn't have the "easy way out" programmed into it.

 

For me the hard part about making changes is suffering through the bad golf while you incorporate the change. For me, it is hard to not go play, and when I'm playing, it is hard to not care about score or even results. Those things are in conflict with learning. When you are learning, you have to be able to go out on the course and commit yourself to the thought that "I am not going to think about score, I am not going to even think about results, I am only going to think about executing these changes I have been working on". If you're going to do it, commit to it and you will get the best results. Know that you are going to have those times where you think "this is too hard, I'm just going to go back to my old way of doing it, it wasn't so bad!" At that point, you're probably getting close to where you want to be so you might as well push forward!

[kygolfer1980]

Anyways, everyone hits what I like to call "The Wall". This is just a point where they can't seem to score any better but they don't seem to have very ballooned high rounds either. They are a "solid" x handicap without much variance. You find this more in the lower handicaps then the higher ones I think.

 

From 2009 to 2011 I really spent a lot of time screwing up my game, like I said i went from a1-4 to a 8-12. I thought I had swing issues and looking back at it really it probably wasn't 100% swing issues, some of it yes but a lot of the problem was mental. After 1 year of completely tweaking and grinding out my swing to make it better because i built in so many bad habits that were a result of a false cause of hitting the wall, i realized to check the following stuff before anything else:

 

~ Are my clubs fit to my game do they have the right specifications?

~ Are my fundamentals like grip, posture, alignment, etc okay?

~ Are my course management skills and club selection / game plan skills okay?

~ Are my mental management and decision making abilities okay?

 

I think for me I can pinpoint almost all of my bad holes to course management / mental decision making anymore, I tend to check the specs on my equipment each Fall. I always work on my process and alignment all the time, my posture just to keep from getting lazy and having it lead to swing issues. Majority of the time I can say that my bad holes are mental errors in either course management or laziness not being focused enough on my targets.

 

 

You will get there, just stick to what changes you are trying to make espesually when the going get really rough.

Good questions... I know I would like to take a divot and also learn to hit a consistent little cut. Right now I play a draw and my miss is a duck hook. I know it's gonna take a long time but I feel it's necessary if I want to truly enjoy this game for the rest if my life. I don't play in a lot of tournament's but would be happy to shoot routinely in the low to mid 70's. I know my course management could use some work though, I often hit the wrong club in a risk/reward situation.

[kygolfer1980]

Good luck man, I think in some ways, big changes are easier than smaller ones. For little tweaks, it is easy for muscle memory and habit to take over when the mind loses focus. If you're completely changing things, then you have to think about what you are doing, but your body doesn't have the "easy way out" programmed into it.

 

For me the hard part about making changes is suffering through the bad golf while you incorporate the change. For me, it is hard to not go play, and when I'm playing, it is hard to not care about score or even results. Those things are in conflict with learning. When you are learning, you have to be able to go out on the course and commit yourself to the thought that "I am not going to think about score, I am not going to even think about results, I am only going to think about executing these changes I have been working on". If you're going to do it, commit to it and you will get the best results. Know that you are going to have those times where you think "this is too hard, I'm just going to go back to my old way of doing it, it wasn't so bad!" At that point, you're probably getting close to where you want to be so you might as well push forward!

I'm gonna try to practice a lot and play little. It's tough, I would much rather play than practice. It's gonna come down to "How bad do I want it?" when I have to decide if I wanna practice or sit down a drink a couple beers at the end of the day.

[JMiller]

Good questions... I know I would like to take a divot and also learn to hit a consistent little cut. Right now I play a draw and my miss is a duck hook. I know it's gonna take a long time but I feel it's necessary if I want to truly enjoy this game for the rest if my life. I don't play in a lot of tournament's but would be happy to shoot routinely in the low to mid 70's. I know my course management could use some work though, I often hit the wrong club in a risk/reward situation.

 

These are just some comments in general nothing against you personally:

~ A pretty divot does not mean a pretty shot, a lot of times my divots are toe heavy and I hit a high draw. The ball is off the face before the club enters the ground, a divot doesn't really matter at all. Steve Stricker is a sweeper and is very successful

 

~ Distance will not directly lead to better scores. Take Zack Johnson for example he is a super short hitter for PGA Tour standards and yet a Masters winner, how'd he get it done? laying up on every par 5 and hitting great wedges into greens, accuracy trumped distance.

 

 

In short the point I was making in my posts was simple, do not make a swing change for the wrong reasons.

 

 

Some quotes that I have to agree with form my instructor Bruce Rearck (http://www.bargolfinstruction.blogspot.com/):

 

'Never make a major change in your swing out of frustration. Getting better takes patience. Always fine tune, never overhaul.'

'The search for a "best way" does not guarantee success. Consistency of effort, consistency of technique is what works best.'

'Long term success in golf means having enough confidence in your method to not change everything when things get tough.'

'Lack of patience ruins more rounds than lack of talent. Play to your strengths, avoid your weaknesses-your scores will be lower.'

'Good shots are a matter of knowing the process to make the shot. Without a process the swing is random. You can't judge random.'

'Set up to an aimed clubface! Don't aim the clubface from your setup! Maybe the most common mistake any player might make.'

[RookieBlue7]

I'm not going to try and give any advice being as you're working with an instructor. But I'll say I've tried fully revamping my swing before (I video myself and pick myself apart and make changes). I've found stuff at times and fixed it and it felt funny, then I'd do a blend of my old habits and what I need to do to repair myself, and do find new ideas and things that work well, so I always discover new things to improve. Just wished I had the time to dedicate to fixing things fully and getting the swing where it used to be when I was playing 8 days a week.

[revkev]

As I read the question it was, "have you been through this before," not do you have any suggestions. Your instructor will have the suggestions.

 

I have been through this - I was totally self taught and learned to play out of the caddie shack back in the late 60's, early 70's. Didn't have much time for golf them because I played baseball through my junior year of college when I developed mono, lost a season and quit - didn't seem to think that my back up gig as a catcher on a DIII team was a ticket to the majors.

 

I stayed in Ithaca NY that summer, worked, partied and played golf - not always in that order. It cost me $75 for my summer membership at the local course and I got my money's worth - played at least 18 holes for two months straight before being rained out. I went from where anything under 90 was a good round to making a run at the city tournament the next year (made it to the semi's). I was still totally self taught my swing patterned after the fashion of the day - the reverse C - this was 1977,78.

 

Once I started working and got married so that I had less time to play my body started to rebel against that reverse C and I struggled with a hook big time. So I went to Doral to the Jimmy Ballard school - two plane to one plane over night - it was not easy but frankly my game was going south in a hurry. I was back down to a 9 the next summer but it was a slog that got derailed as children came - I hardly played at all and found that I had lost lots of distance - this was a mental thing - I was still long enough and later on learned that the consistency I gained far outstriped the distance - I played very little until seminary when I started playing again because it was a great outlet and very cheap - lots of courses in Fort Wayne are free for pastors and sem students on certain days. I found that the time off completely removed the 2 plane, reverse C gene and I was very easily able to do it the Ballard way - I plateaud at a 5 for the next several years until I was able to take lessons from pro at our church in Wisconsin - his help was a small tweak that I still turn to when things go side ways and also he got me to start thinking about short game as the ticket to lower scores - I got down to a 3 pretty quickly with his help and basically have bounced from 5 to 1 depending upon the amount of time that I have to play/practice ever since - the last 7 or 8 years even though I've moved into my 50's and lost even more distance.

 

Bottom line is to be patient, laugh at your struggles, recognize that you are on a journey and try and do things to keep your short game sharp because it can cover a multitude of sins.

 

Good luck - let us know how it goes.

[Super Tuna]

I haven't personally done it yet, but like you, I about to start KY. I've been talking to an instructor about a swing revamp that takes the torque off my knees after too many surgeries. He thinks it's quite possible but is also very up front saying it's going to be a huge shift.

 

I'm not entirely looking forward to it but I'm also not interested in blowing my knees out again.

[apprenti23]

Sounds like you're a flipper or have an early release. If your ball flight is very high with no divot than you're a flipper who swings off the back foot.

 

I say fund an instructor you like and buy a package of 5-10 whichever you can afford. If you decide on not overhauling your swing then there's always the short game!

[kygolfer1980]

!st lesson moved to Wed, forgot my little man has 1st tee on Monday. Appreciate all the replies. I will try to post a short video this weekend of my swing from the side and behind to give you guys a better idea of what I'm dealing with. And I agree, focusing on short game will get the handicap down quicker than the swing change. I am hoping my kids prefer golf to other sports so we can spend valuable time together on the practice range and course. Is that wrong?

[Blade]

Just keep it simple. Watch this and remember it before each shot and you'll be golden!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncjx9kPoHlc

[Jmikecpa]

I don't know your game nor will I comment on what you need to do to change. What I can say is that I played D1 golf in college and was always a sweeper of the ball..........and had a terrible grip. Rather than fix my grip I decided that I needed to start taking divots and hitting shots like a tour pro. All it did to me was make my index go from scratch to five in no time. I fixed my grip and got my index down to about a 1.4 and now I play about once a week and barely hit balls and play off of a 2.1. Work on the short game and putting and find a swing that works for you.......in case I did not make it too clear I still sweep the ball on just about every shot that I hit and it is just what works for me.

[kygolfer1980]

I haven't talked to my instructor in depth so I'll see what he has to say. He said bring a notepad and a video camera if I can. He's old school in his teaching which appeals to me. I'm cool with sweeping as long as it's consistent and repeatable...

[revkev]

Tom Watson is a sweeper - seemed to work out okay for him.

[kygolfer1980]

Tom Watson is a sweeper - seemed to work out okay for him.

True dat!!

[kygolfer1980]

Had my lesson yesterday. I told him what I was doing and he watched me swing a few times. He doesn't want me to worry about a divot as I take what he considered a small divot at present. The problem with my swing once again was fundamentals. My grip was slightly off as well as alignment, I was setting up with a closed stance. I was clearing my hips way to early causing a weak push or duck hook depending on if I got the club released. I was also opening up the clubface on the way back and breaking my wrist at the top as well causing it to open more. I guess I have just been compensating to try to get it back on plane causing the over the top ugliness at the start of the downswing. He gave me a couple simple drills to work on and had me hitting the ball pretty well by the end of the lesson. It's easy to creep back into old habits after a while, I think it's pretty important for me to check in with my instructor every couple months to keep this going in the right direction.

[The Artful Duffer]

Keep at it. And keep us posted. After rebuilding mine I finally got back under 100 for the first time this year which could've been under 90 except for some minor hiccups and idiocy on my part. You'll start seeing your work pay off soon. Good luck!