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2013 TaylorMade R1 & RBZ 2 Driver


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#106 GolfSpy T

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

Ya know that I respect the hell outa you & your thoughts, however the only reason that I would shy away from this statement(or sentencs.. :rolleyes:)is because TMaG is "The Man" in the driver segment. Hands down, no doubt(If ya do doubt, please read my prior post). I can't see them "puntin" a driver, ever, at least not intentionally.

They are not that, nor have they ever been that in irons. Not that they haven't had nice irons, obviously they have, though they've never had a majority of the market say, with their wallets, "Youda Man."

I'm thinkin what T posted, that there's something there that we're not seeing or hearing, then as Matt said regarding the sales cycle, well, I just think that they've got somethin under wraps.

Though they could probably afford to have a "flop," I just can't see them "writing off" a driver or an introduction. That's just not TMaG, and it sure as hell isn't the R&D zealots(& I mean that as the highest compliment!) that I met. These guys "bring it" every day & that comes from the top.

And please excuse the overuse of emoticans. I just found out how to use them & I'm in that "little kid w/a hammer" phase. It'll pass


But damn, I love that little Mizzy emoticon :P

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Everything TaylorMade has done thus far is consistent with previous sales/release cycles. Lead with the iron announcement in the fall. The woods... announcements usually come in early December (they likely won't this year).

TaylorMade is a driver before everything else company. As the ball is for Titleist, and the iron is for Mizuno, for TaylorMade, the driver is THE THING. As Richard said, if they punt, it's not going to be on purpose...

A punt would still be better than a fumble.

That said, the R11s, was almost a punt. Not a whiff by any stretch, but certainly a comparatively modest upgrade over the R11 (you can argue that one was just paint, but you can't argue it wasn't a HUGE market mover....it mattered). Last year was the anomaly. The fairway wood was the thing...and they sold lots of RBZ drivers because of it. Relatively small sample set, but...I play in a regular group of 12 guys. So not counting me...that's 11 drivers. 3 of them got replaced by the RBZ this season. These guys play the same drivers for years...and they all switched to the RBZ.

This year, maybe the irons will be the thing. It could be TaylorMade is diversifying...but I still think they want (and really they need) the driver to be #1. The driver sells the rest of the bag like no other club can.

So where does that leave us... one head, multiple-lofts. That could be the significant change that makes the new driver the better driver. If that's the whole of the story, on adjustability alone, TaylorMade drops from #1 to #2 behind Nike. Of course, we'll get into the TaylorMade copied Nike copied Cobra debate, but it's probably where the market is headed, so ultimately that won't matter. What will matter is that TaylorMade's story is the same as Nike...the same as Cobra's...and that's not much of a story.

Given what's already coming, this would be a bad season for TaylorMade to punt. I think there is more to the story. But if I'm wrong, and the market reception for the R1 mirrors the forum reception, expect an early summer correction. The SuperTri, for example, was, IMO, a miss for TaylorMade, but they back-filled with the SuperDeep, and it was all good.

I'm still thinking there could be something we don't know about yet.


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#107 GolfSpy WD

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

I'm not sure history can be an indicator of current/future performance. There's also a very long pipeline between research and clubs hitting the market, so it could be they are slow in reacting to Nike/Cobra's super adjustability. However, even with Nike's new club, the driver is maxed out, so unless the Covert is proven to be a fairway machine, chances are most people will still see TM as the #1 driver company and shy away from Nike due to past performance.

My point is it is possible that TM is using the same strategy as they did last year with the RBZ 3-wood where, as T said, other clubs coat tail onto the success of one. This year, I can definitely see the RBDZ irons being the lead club.

This is sort of the Apple strategy where technology is intentionally held onto so only one new big technological innovation (or little thing I guess) is released each year. This keeps the masses believing TM is leading the charge because they always have something new an cool each year. Does anyone really believe TM didn't have the slot idea for their irons last year and didn't hold off on it? I'm pretty sure TM has an answer for Nike, they just don't feel the need to release it yet. Or, they want to release it with plenty of ways to shoot down the Covert.

Either way, Nike will have to spend big this year to even touch on TM's driver sales just based on loyalty and the perception of both companies. Cobra doesn't have a chance to compete with TM.

#108 Super Tuna

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:22 PM

This year, maybe the irons will be the thing. It could be TaylorMade is diversifying...but I still think they want (and really they need) the driver to be #1. The driver sells the rest of the bag like no other club can.


Is it really diversifying though? They took the #1 irons in golf thing from Callaway early last year and didn't give it up this year. If I'm TM, I'm hoping the irons are a hit. With them being a big seller they lock down #1 Driver, #1 Fairway, #1 Hybrids (due to Adams) and #1 iron. I'd say that's pretty good. I don't have the datatech numbers at the moment but I can't imagine they're even close to Titleist for wedges, putters or balls. While they might like to be, I imagine making sure Nike/Callaway aren't a threat is more important then trying to kick Titleist off their dominance. At least for the time being anyways.
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#109 furu

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:10 AM

The quality of TMs products in 2013 is excellent. That is something you can't understand by looking at pictures. Many people will change their minds once they actully see, touch and try the new clubs.
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#110 hckymeyer

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:28 AM

The quality of TMs products in 2013 is excellent. That is something you can't understand by looking at pictures. Many people will change their minds once they actully see, touch and try the new clubs.


That seems to be a familiar statement for TM over the past year. Seems like there was a lot of hate and na-sayers before launch, but once people hit the products they overwhelmingly bought them.

I'm excited to see the official announcements and find out the whole story.

Driver: :taylormade-small:  SLDR 430 10.5° set to 11° Diamana D+ 62 stiff
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#111 golfercraig

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:52 PM

Is it really diversifying though? They took the #1 irons in golf thing from Callaway early last year and didn't give it up this year. If I'm TM, I'm hoping the irons are a hit. With them being a big seller they lock down #1 Driver, #1 Fairway, #1 Hybrids (due to Adams) and #1 iron. I'd say that's pretty good. I don't have the datatech numbers at the moment but I can't imagine they're even close to Titleist for wedges, putters or balls. While they might like to be, I imagine making sure Nike/Callaway aren't a threat is more important then trying to kick Titleist off their dominance. At least for the time being anyways.

It's Odyssey for putters, by a large margin. And Titleist has the SMALLEST margin over Cleveland for wedges. Last year was Titleist's first year as wedge leader in a very long time. Cleveland had been dominating that. And while Titleist is still #1 in balls, they are weakening. Their $ market share lead took a huge hit last year and the NXT line and Velocity drastically lowered the average price of a dozen Titleist balls. It's because of that that TM is spending 25% of their marketing dollar going at the ProV1 this year. TMaG is so serious about it that Srixon decided against releasing the new Z-Star line until they see how the market shakes out. If TM can pay enough club pros (and pay enough commission per dozen to retail guys) to get them to switch, it could get real interesting in balls this year.

#112 GolfSpy T

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

It's Odyssey for putters, by a large margin. And Titleist has the SMALLEST margin over Cleveland for wedges. Last year was Titleist's first year as wedge leader in a very long time. Cleveland had been dominating that. And while Titleist is still #1 in balls, they are weakening. Their $ market share lead took a huge hit last year and the NXT line and Velocity drastically lowered the average price of a dozen Titleist balls. It's because of that that TM is spending 25% of their marketing dollar going at the ProV1 this year. TMaG is so serious about it that Srixon decided against releasing the new Z-Star line until they see how the market shakes out. If TM can pay enough club pros (and pay enough commission per dozen to retail guys) to get them to switch, it could get real interesting in balls this year.


In the grand scheme of things, winning the wedge war (if there even is such a thing) gets you nothing on a larger scale.

The ball thing is interesting...I've been telling my friends for years that if TaylorMade ever decides it really wants to take over the #1 spot for the golf ball, it could make things very interesting.

It's just my opinion, but I think Titleist has grown stale. The approach has always been #1 ball in golf, clubs for better players, etc. And while that worked (really well....for a decent amount of time), the landscape has changed around them and they've been slow to adapt. Simply clinging to the #1 ball in golf as you have since rubber became the next big thing, while not doing anything on the marketing side (except to repeatedly say you're the #1 ball in golf) to draw repeated distinction isn't going to keep them there...not with TaylorMade marketing circles around them.
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#113 Matt Saternus

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

It's Odyssey for putters, by a large margin. And Titleist has the SMALLEST margin over Cleveland for wedges. Last year was Titleist's first year as wedge leader in a very long time. Cleveland had been dominating that. And while Titleist is still #1 in balls, they are weakening. Their $ market share lead took a huge hit last year and the NXT line and Velocity drastically lowered the average price of a dozen Titleist balls. It's because of that that TM is spending 25% of their marketing dollar going at the ProV1 this year. TMaG is so serious about it that Srixon decided against releasing the new Z-Star line until they see how the market shakes out. If TM can pay enough club pros (and pay enough commission per dozen to retail guys) to get them to switch, it could get real interesting in balls this year.


THIS! I'm glad someone else is sounding the horn for how important the "boots on the ground" is in the golf market. No one is arguing that the tour guys are #1, but the guys in the stores really really really matter. In my experience, TMAG is one of the few that get this.

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#114 GolfSpy WD

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

In the grand scheme of things, winning the wedge war (if there even is such a thing) gets you nothing on a larger scale.

The ball thing is interesting...I've been telling my friends for years that if TaylorMade ever decides it really wants to take over the #1 spot for the golf ball, it could make things very interesting.

It's just my opinion, but I think Titleist has grown stale. The approach has always been #1 ball in golf, clubs for better players, etc. And while that worked (really well....for a decent amount of time), the landscape has changed around them and they've been slow to adapt. Simply clinging to the #1 ball in golf as you have since rubber became the next big thing, while not doing anything on the marketing side (except to repeatedly say you're the #1 ball in golf) to draw repeated distinction isn't going to keep them there...not with TaylorMade marketing circles around them.


Couldn't agree more. My favorite thing about what TM is doing though is pulling the price down on quality balls. There's no reason whatsoever the ProV1x should cost $46 for a box.

#115 Ice

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

Couldn't agree more. My favorite thing about what TM is doing though is pulling the price down on quality balls. There's no reason whatsoever the ProV1x should cost $46 for a box.


$47.99 MSRP and hoarders of people pay it.
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#116 Matt Saternus

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

Couldn't agree more. My favorite thing about what TM is doing though is pulling the price down on quality balls. There's no reason whatsoever the ProV1x should cost $46 for a box.


Yeah, I think it's brilliant marketing with the "Buy 2 Get 1 Free" deals. Not only are people getting a deal, but you're protecting your image (the ball is still a $40+/dozen ball) AND people are going to have it in their bag for more than one round since they bought 3 dozen.

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#117 GolfSpy T

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:48 PM

Yeah, I think it's brilliant marketing with the "Buy 2 Get 1 Free" deals. Not only are people getting a deal, but you're protecting your image (the ball is still a $40+/dozen ball) AND people are going to have it in their bag for more than one round since they bought 3 dozen.


That's the art of marketing piece at work. How do you provide value (cheaper balls) while avoiding the perception of lower quality resulting from a lower priced item? Buy 2 get 1 free. More balls, while maintaining the premium price point.
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#118 Manavs

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

I will address this spy pic situation and your statements below:


1. Up to this point as the owner of MyGolfSpy I have been the only site over the past 5 years on a consistent basis to publish spy pics for consumers to see while other sites caved to pressure and legal threats from the OEM's. So your claims of me being a ***** to the OEM's and pussy really mean nothing to me. You don't know me and you definitely don't know anything about why I chose to start MyGolfSpy. Trust me I am not afraid to post pictures of golf clubs like you state.


2. I also choose to give up quite a bit of revenue by not taking ad dollars from the OEM's to allow myself and our writers the freedom to do this and many other things for the readers of MGS. I think the info we provide is something that was needed in the industry and I think our staff does a better job than any other golf media outlet in the business, especially if you are comparing what we do with the resources and budget constraints we are under.


3. I have had the info on the R1 and RBZ 2 driver long before you sent me anything. I chose not to post anything for reasons other than anything to do with Taylormade and more to do with protecting someones career. Which is far more important to me. I know everyone wants to see these photos but you also might not understand how the law works around them (you obviously don't). I was legally in the right to post a couple of the ones I have received (not yours), although if I would have posted them a close friend of mine would have lost everything he has spent the last 15 years working towards in this industry. I value my friendship and the trust I have with those I consider friends far more than a few pictures of a driver no one will care about 6 months from now.


Now I would like to address your ridiculous personal claims:



1. If you want to send pictures to us of spy pics of new gear...great...the thing that does not make sense is that YOU had these pics and you obviously have the means to post them on forums just like you have on your site so why didn't you post them on here when you got them? Why rely on me? Are we the pussies or are you? You claim you did not want to get your source in trouble but you seem to have no issue pushing these on the industry and on your new site..and that friend "Wilson" you state you are trying to protect, you might want to think about not promoting the fact that he gave them to you on your site if you truly are trying to protect your "spy (wink wink) source". Just a thought.


2. The claim that we are a ***** to the OEM's. Once again call the OEM's or ask our readers I doubt you will find a single one that would agree with your statement. I do this for our readers and NO ONE else. Is it my job to cover the industry? YES. Do I ***** myself out for free gear? NO. Ask our other writers, I don't get any of this stuff, I don't want it. If I want something I generally go buy it. Good luck finding another golf media outlet mag or site owner that does the same. I also go out of my way to not be influenced by any of the OEM's. So much so that I have turned down a lot of great opportunities they continually offer. I always out our readers first and that will not change.


* And continuing with the whole "whoring" claim. I think I remember you asking me on more than one occasion if you could get some free schwag from MyGolfSpy for sending me these photos. Comes off just a little contradictory and whorish coming from someone who is claiming another to be an industry wanker.



3. No one locked any post of yours. Looks like you were completely able to pull down your photos from our site.


And lastly, just so you know I spent quite a bit of time the past few years doing detective work on the whole "Taylormade Spy Pic Leaking" incidents. I tracked down where they originated from each and every time and who was responsible over the years for leaking them. I know their philosophy and their methodologies when it comes to their buzz building.


I also know they have tried to use MyGolfSpy related to this philosophy and make it seem like it was coming from a random reader. Not saying you are one the individuals they used (I will find out though...and so will they I am sure)...but it does seem odd that you have been SO intent on getting these published if your not one of the chosen few TM leakers. I have gotten enough spy pics from readers to know how this works and this does not even come close to fitting that mold. You have now sent these to multiple insiders in the industry and have not quit trying to get them out there. So much so you actually took the time to build a website just for the purpose of publishing them and then broadcasting the fact that you did so.


And I am glad you have gotten over 3K visitors in 9 hours for your photos, and that you are telling people to click on your ads on your site for the benefit you are offering your new readers. But last time I checked that kind of defines what a ***** is all about.






<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">igolfchip, on 22 November 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

You spies are such pussies! I send you the pictures but you're too afraid to post on your site for fear of TaylorMade and your NDA's.
So I post them on a site I created and
1) you take the photos and add them to my thread
2) you lock the posting so I can't even remove them....

Spies? More like whores to the industry :)



+1 well said

#119 Chal

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

The ball thing is very interesting. I just did some testing of the new Titleist PRO V ball and found it to be ok at best. I did extensive tests against the Callway Hex Black tour and the Callaway outperformed for me in every way possible. More distance, more spin, better feel, etc... Interested to try the new TM ball and compare. If the pro at more course had incentive to sell the TM ball, he could get a majority of guys to switch just based of him telling them too.

Driver:     Taylormade SLDR 430 9^
Shaft:       Oban Kiyoshi White 65X
3 Wood:   Titleist 915 Fd 13.5       
Shaft:       Aldila Rogue Silver 70 X
Hybrid:     Titleist 915 Hd 18, 20
Shaft:       Speeder 904 HB X-stiff
Irons:        Taylormade RSi 2  5-PW             
Shafts:      Dynamic Gold SL S300
Wedges:  SCOR 4161 50,55,59
Shafts:     Genius
Putter:      Byron Morgan Bombora Secrets


#120 Stuart81

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:33 PM

As buyer at our Proshop I have grown bored of the Titleist talk of number 1 ball and shoe on tour, thats all when and good but teh average joe couldnt give a monkeys what the pro plays they want a good ball at great value.
We have now switched our entire ball order over to TM from Titleist although we will still sell Srixon and our only shoe supplier will be Adidas, I am fed up of making $3 per dozen PROV1 although it will be only a small increase this year stocking TM project 5 ball it is still more $$$$
TM understand the average golfer better than anyone else and they also understand what the club pro has to deal with
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TaylorMade R1 Driver
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