Planned 2030 Golf Ball Rollback

[Silver Fawkes]

3 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

First of all welcome to MGS forum @Silver Fawkes. Secondly, what a great post and perspective!!  You absolutely captured my thoughts and positions on the matter. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to apply changes to 99% of golfers to address a too much distance problem (fact or fiction) that does not apply to them.  

It won't.  Instead of a 50 degree+ wedge they might have to pull a 9i once or twice a round .  Tons of churn, expense, and virtue signaling that will make no difference.  The folks in these ruling bodies (possibly being directed from elites who have their ears and wallets) are too prideful to admit they have made a bad decision.

Here's an idea, how about putting the brilliant idea into test, on the tours where it belongs, and see what happens.  Beta testing is done in virtually every industry to validate "the product" before release to users.  They won't do this either and we know why.

This may be our only hope if the tour and OEM's form an alliance.

I also find it funny to think that changing the testing specifications to an increase of 5mph clubhead speed, 300 revs of spin, and 1° angle of launch is going to change anything for guys at the level for which it's meant. Do they not think this level of player can increase their swing speed by 5mph and adjust the launch angle/ball flight to compensate? Not to mention they can adjust other equipment factors such as the lengths and lofts of their clubs. 

I mean Exact Golf did a driver shaft length study where they increase clubhead speed by 4mph just by going from 45" to 47", and they aren't the only ones. Most guys on Tour already play with a length at or below 45". The only thing this change is going to do is place even more of a premium on clubhead speed. Why? Because statistically the shorter the shot the better your score. It doesn't matter if it's in the rough or not. It doesn't even matter if it's your putter. It's a statistical fact that a shorter putt, no matter the conditions (i.e. uphill, downhill, curving left/right, or any combination), will on average score better than a longer one. 

When you really dig into what they claim is their whole ideology behind the change it just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

I think I'm actually more mad about their blatantly false messaging behind the decision than the decision itself. I mean if they came out and just admitted, "Look, we know it's not the equipment. Elite golfers have developed distance and accuracy to a level that will make courses, particularly historic and prestigious ones, obsolete according to the way they were designed to play, and many of those courses, for a variety of reasons, simply can't or aren't willing to extend the length of their course or redesign them to compensate. We want to be able to play these courses because it feeds the nostalgia of the game, looks good on TV, and keeps people in power happy. So with that in mind we are going to artifically dial back the distance these guys are able to play by ham-handedly attenuating the gear."

At least then they'd be honest about it and I could respect that. 

[Jim Shaw]

3 hours ago, Silver Fawkes said:

I think I have a unique perspective as I didn't start playing golf until I was 33. I was an athlete when I was younger and even into my 30's (basketball, football, skateboarding, cycling, ultra marathons, triathlons, etc.), but was never exposed to stick&ball sports beyond 1 year of tee ball when I was 5. While I appreciate the history of the game, I don't have the connection to it that most do from playing, watching professionals, and developing a real fanaticism for the game and it's culture. What I love about the game is playing it, practicing it, and the challenge it presents. Of all the athletic endeavors I've pursued, I find golf to be the MOST difficult of any by a vast margin. I say all of this to provide some context behind my point of view on the rollback.

I find the explanation of reasoning from the USGA/R&A to be extremely disingenuous. They use really vague keywords like sustainability, integrity of the game, and environmental impact that all sound warm and fuzzy, but when I read through their context behind each of those words they use I can't help but be completely confused. The reason I get confused is because their ideology is completely contradictory to their own study data they've publicly released over the years.

FIrst, I don't think there is a distance issue. Over the last FORTY THREE years average driving distance on the PGA tour has increased from right at 260 in 1980 to 297 in 2023. That's total distance not carry. Now sure equipment has improved, but it's not as if there hasn't been standards and regulations placed on equipment by the very governing bodies enacting the rollback. 

in 1976 the USGA/R&A enacted the Overall Distance Standard on golf balls. The standard they set then was 280 yards carry AND roll +/- 8%. In 1980 they required balls be symmetrical meaning you can't design dimples to correct ball flight. In 1986 they reduced the +/- tolerance to 6%. That was totally fine until 2002 when they adjusted spin and ball speed standards using the titanium driver heads that they allowed to be used and for which they created COR standards. Those regulations set revs at 42/sec and 235 ft/sec ball speed with .822 COR on club heads. 

And that's it. That's the last time they changed ball and driver regulations. Twenty years ago. Do you know how much the PGA Tour average driving distance changed during that time period? Almost 20 yards.

And this is where I call BS on the governing bodies. There isn't a problem with equipment. They set standards they were happy with and have been happy with for 20 years. The titanium driver was introduced by Callaway in 1995. Between 1995 and 2002, when they set driver and ball regulations, do you know how much distance was gained by PGA Tour players? 16 yards. 

This isn't a rollback on the golf ball, this is a rollback on golfer improvement. Today, golf swings are essentially built in a lab trying to eek out every single bit of distance and accuracy through a multitude of methods be it the using technology like launch monitors to optimize launch and spin characteristics to perhaps the more important development: sports performance science. This isn't your grandfather's game anymore where guys are swinging clubs with a cigarette in their mouth and hitting the clubhouse after 18 for a steak and donut sandwich. Today guys are training specifically for golf every single bit as much as your favorite defensive end on your NFL team that's now 6'5", weighs 275, runs a 4.6 40, and squats 600lbs. It's a new era of human sports performance that influences EVERY sport and golf is hardly any exception.

But I think what's most hypocritical is this false narrative that it's about sustainability, integrity, and environmental impact. It's not about any of those things. It's about arrogance, entertainment, and money. The arrogance of people that own and run clubs with history and nostalgia that want to have the money and prestige that comes from being a stop on the tour, but know that the power of some of these players will make the design of their course obsolete. The entertainment factor where the sexy "long ball" they hyped and sold us for so long is now somehow boring to watch when they're now constantly bristling at "It's all driver -> wedge.". The money of course speaks for itself.

I think the worst part of all this though is that it's gonna hit the real golfers... the people who pay to play and are the true backbone of the sport: US. How much it impacts us remains to be seen, but I can't get away from the feeling that we're being punished for something we didn't even do. As I said in my introduction, golf is the most difficult sport I've ever played by light-years and I feel strongly that we don't need anything making it more difficult than it already is, even by a fraction. 

I hear lots of folks saying, "Carter, the ball goes too far.", but I never hear any golfer saying, "Carter, the ball goes too far for me.". If it goes too far for you and the game is too easy then good for you. You're awesome . Maybe challenge yourself with some tiny blades and persimmon woods. They still make those. But in your hubris, try your best to be sympathetic to everyday players who don't want to see their handicaps go up even a fraction for something that was decided by some governing body on high.

Lastly, I want to make sure to state that I love golf which is why all of this evokes such strong feelings. I know there are all kinds of grey areas in this debate and everyone is entitled to their opinion just like I am. That being said, two things can exist at the same time: disagreement over the decision and the motivations behind it and the acceptance that we'll continue to play this amazing game no matter what.

Yes, welcome to MGS @Silver Fawkes. A lot for me to unpack in your post, however I am intrigued about your comment about Golf being "the most difficult sport" you have played.

From your experience, why do you think that is? 

[fixyurdivot]

If they feel compelled to do anything, bifurcate.  I love that word as it was germane to one of the last R&D projects I worked on at Boeing.  I cannot disclose where on the airframe or which airframe due to still applicable NDA's.

Also, the "don't care" option kind of waters down the outcome on several of the questions.

[skraeling]

16 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Yes, welcome to MGS @Silver Fawkes. A lot for me to unpack in your post, however I am intrigued about your comment about Golf being "the most difficult sport" you have played.

From your experience, why do you think that is? 

Ive found it similar.  Did baseball for years, hockey too.  I never had to take a lesson to know how to shoot a puck or throw a ball.

Golf?  You literally have to learn a mechanic that isnt a natural motion the body does. At least thats how I see it. 

[chisag]

22 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Yes, welcome to MGS @Silver Fawkes. A lot for me to unpack in your post, however I am intrigued about your comment about Golf being "the most difficult sport" you have played.

From your experience, why do you think that is? 

 

... Having played football in college, baseball and basketball in high school and competitive travel tennis I can say golf is by far the most difficult sport to play consistently well. "Difficult" can certainly be interpreted different ways and any shot in golf isn't anywhere near as difficult as throwing a pass when you know you are about to get rocked into another dimension. 

... But I like to look at golf compared to the skills of different positions required to pay football. Hitting the ball far and accurately off the tee like a O/D lineman using brute strength and technique against each other, flighting a long iron down into the wind with speed like a LB taking on a block and having the speed to make the tackle, controlling the distance and trajectory of an iron shot like a WR or DB and having great touch in bunkers, around the green bumping and running or flying the ball to the flag and stopping after one hop while having a quarterbacks touch with a putter judging break, grain and speed to make the ball drop in the hole from 6 or 60 feet. So all the different positions skills rolled into one golfer makes it the most difficult sport in my book, especially when you add that any extra effort that is not only desired but needed in most all other sports will end in disaster for a golfer. Micheal Jordan said when his offense was struggling he just dug deep on defense attempting to give 100% effort but felt if he gave his golf swing any extra effort at all it made things much worse. 

[Silver Fawkes]

9 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Yes, welcome to MGS @Silver Fawkes. A lot for me to unpack in your post, however I am intrigued about your comment about Golf being "the most difficult sport" you have played.

From your experience, why do you think that is? 

That's a really good question. I appreciate you asking that. Honestly, no one ever has before when I've described golf this way. 

Disclaimer: This is what makes golf more difficult to ME relative to all the other sports I've played. Even if my language might be interpreted this way, I don't think my experience or opinion is the same for everyone. It's just my interpretation of what I've experienced. 

Ok... Golf is the most difficult sport I've ever played because the skills required to play it are absolutely foreign. Yes there are other stick/ball sports. Yes they have their own skill sets and all of that. But what I'm talking about is playing any sport in such a way where you feel even a modicum of proficiency. You can play soccer with family or friends in the backyard and have a great time and feel like you actually played soccer. Same way with American football. You can throw the thing and someone can catch it. Anyone can play baseball, kickball, hell even bowling... tennis, pickleball, running, cycling. 

Golf is not like that. Sure you can walk out in your backyard with a wedge and a few golf balls... but good luck. Golf to me is unique in this way. You can't just walk out and pick up a club and a ball and "play golf". If you do decide to play golf, you get some clubs and walk out to the range and try to start hitting balls and guess how you're going to feel. I remember the first time I did. I was 33 years old on a municipal range in Houston, TX. I could make contact with the ball and it went forward. I paid and walked out to the first tee... I hit the ball and it went forward and right... WAAAAYYYY right. I drove the cart over to where I thought it was and couldn't find it. I dropped another ball in the fairway and pulled some club and hit that. Topped it. It went about 30 yards.... After more than a dozen strokes I made it to the green. I putted a few times and got the ball in the hole. Then I got back in my golf cart and drove back to the clubhouse and got in my car and thought to myself, "This is the dumbest f****** thing I've ever done. Who in the world would want to do this? You can't even PLAY the game if you haven't done it before!!"

My degree is in music, classical guitar performance to be specific, though I am a music producer now more than a performer. But even with music, every instrument I've ever learned to play be it guitar, bass, drums, or piano I learned to play with an amount of proficiency that made it enjoyable in a VASTLY shorter time than anything related to golf. 

To me that's the difference... The skill level and time required to play the game with at least some level of proficiency that allows you to enjoy it. 

[Silver Fawkes]

2 minutes ago, Silver Fawkes said:

That's a really good question. I appreciate you asking that. Honestly, no one ever has before when I've described golf this way. 

Disclaimer: This is what makes golf more difficult to ME relative to all the other sports I've played. Even if my language might be interpreted this way, I don't think my experience or opinion is the same for everyone. It's just my interpretation of what I've experienced. 

Ok... Golf is the most difficult sport I've ever played because the skills required to play it are absolutely foreign. Yes there are other stick/ball sports. Yes they have their own skill sets and all of that. But what I'm talking about is playing any sport in such a way where you feel even a modicum of proficiency. You can play soccer with family or friends in the backyard and have a great time and feel like you actually played soccer. Same way with American football. You can throw the thing and someone can catch it. Anyone can play baseball, kickball, hell even bowling... tennis, pickleball, running, cycling. 

Golf is not like that. Sure you can walk out in your backyard with a wedge and a few golf balls... but good luck. Golf to me is unique in this way. You can't just walk out and pick up a club and a ball and "play golf". If you do decide to play golf, you get some clubs and walk out to the range and try to start hitting balls and guess how you're going to feel. I remember the first time I did. I was 33 years old on a municipal range in Houston, TX. I could make contact with the ball and it went forward. I paid and walked out to the first tee... I hit the ball and it went forward and right... WAAAAYYYY right. I drove the cart over to where I thought it was and couldn't find it. I dropped another ball in the fairway and pulled some club and hit that. Topped it. It went about 30 yards.... After more than a dozen strokes I made it to the green. I putted a few times and got the ball in the hole. Then I got back in my golf cart and drove back to the clubhouse and got in my car and thought to myself, "This is the dumbest f****** thing I've ever done. Who in the world would want to do this? You can't even PLAY the game if you haven't done it before!!"

My degree is in music, classical guitar performance to be specific, though I am a music producer now more than a performer. But even with music, every instrument I've ever learned to play be it guitar, bass, drums, or piano I learned to play with an amount of proficiency that made it enjoyable in a VASTLY shorter time than anything related to golf. 

To me that's the difference... The skill level and time required to play the game with at least some level of proficiency that allows you to enjoy it.

Just to add to this... I would wager anyone could go out with some friends, some tennis rackets and balls, and play tennis and have a great time. But if tennis were like golf... Imagine swinging at the ball and completely missing a third of the time. The times you do make contact it shanks off the side of the racket and flies out of the fence surrounding the court. Other times when you hit it the ball goes straight into the net or bounces up and hits you in the face. Then maybe a few times you actually hit the ball and get the ball over the net. THEN the person you hit it to has the same experience as you do. So you never really end up hitting the ball to each other at all. You're not playing tennis in any way whatsoever. 

That's what I'm getting at. That's where golf is different for me. 

[Rob Person]

10 minutes ago, Silver Fawkes said:

That's a really good question. I appreciate you asking that. Honestly, no one ever has before when I've described golf this way. 

Disclaimer: This is what makes golf more difficult to ME relative to all the other sports I've played. Even if my language might be interpreted this way, I don't think my experience or opinion is the same for everyone. It's just my interpretation of what I've experienced. 

Ok... Golf is the most difficult sport I've ever played because the skills required to play it are absolutely foreign. Yes there are other stick/ball sports. Yes they have their own skill sets and all of that. But what I'm talking about is playing any sport in such a way where you feel even a modicum of proficiency. You can play soccer with family or friends in the backyard and have a great time and feel like you actually played soccer. Same way with American football. You can throw the thing and someone can catch it. Anyone can play baseball, kickball, hell even bowling... tennis, pickleball, running, cycling. 

Golf is not like that. Sure you can walk out in your backyard with a wedge and a few golf balls... but good luck. Golf to me is unique in this way. You can't just walk out and pick up a club and a ball and "play golf". If you do decide to play golf, you get some clubs and walk out to the range and try to start hitting balls and guess how you're going to feel. I remember the first time I did. I was 33 years old on a municipal range in Houston, TX. I could make contact with the ball and it went forward. I paid and walked out to the first tee... I hit the ball and it went forward and right... WAAAAYYYY right. I drove the cart over to where I thought it was and couldn't find it. I dropped another ball in the fairway and pulled some club and hit that. Topped it. It went about 30 yards.... After more than a dozen strokes I made it to the green. I putted a few times and got the ball in the hole. Then I got back in my golf cart and drove back to the clubhouse and got in my car and thought to myself, "This is the dumbest f****** thing I've ever done. Who in the world would want to do this? You can't even PLAY the game if you haven't done it before!!"

My degree is in music, classical guitar performance to be specific, though I am a music producer now more than a performer. But even with music, every instrument I've ever learned to play be it guitar, bass, drums, or piano I learned to play with an amount of proficiency that made it enjoyable in a VASTLY shorter time than anything related to golf. 

To me that's the difference... The skill level and time required to play the game with at least some level of proficiency that allows you to enjoy it. 

Great answer!

If you didn't have ocd before, you certainly will when it comes to golf and trying to translate that great range/chipping/putting session to the actual course!

[Silver Fawkes]

5 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Great answer!

If you didn't have ocd before, you certainly will when it comes to golf and trying to translate that great range/chipping/putting session to the actual course!

I was just talking to my wife about that. If you somehow made it off the tee in the fairway depending on how far away you are there's a skill set for irons and a different skill set for fairway woods. You're up by the green now? There's a skill set for pitches and a skill set for chips. Oh you're in the bunker actually? Well there's a skill set for that too. Now you're on the green and have to putt... Another skill set. Great.

Now just 17 more of that entire experience to go.

And again I ask... Why make it more difficult for people like us even if it's at a fractional level? Why?

[Josh Parker]

29 minutes ago, Silver Fawkes said:

Just to add to this... I would wager anyone could go out with some friends, some tennis rackets and balls, and play tennis and have a great time. But if tennis were like golf... Imagine swinging at the ball and completely missing a third of the time. The times you do make contact it shanks off the side of the racket and flies out of the fence surrounding the court. Other times when you hit it the ball goes straight into the net or bounces up and hits you in the face. Then maybe a few times you actually hit the ball and get the ball over the net. THEN the person you hit it to has the same experience as you do. So you never really end up hitting the ball to each other at all. You're not playing tennis in any way whatsoever. 

That's what I'm getting at. That's where golf is different for me. 

Like the answers and explanation. 

[Jim Shaw]

1 hour ago, skraeling said:

Ive found it similar.  Did baseball for years, hockey too.  I never had to take a lesson to know how to shoot a puck or throw a ball.

Golf?  You literally have to learn a mechanic that isnt a natural motion the body does. At least thats how I see it. 

yes, played both those sports as well, I played catch insistently for hours with my friends and shagged fly balls, so did lots of practicing there, in hockey I would shoot pucks for hours trying to pick corners and learn how to do a good slap shot etc, my coaches were people I "took" lessons from. 

I see the golf game broken down into segments, I have posted this before 

-long game

-long irons

-scorning irons

-wedges

-putting

and to succeed I have to be good at most and great at a couple, so I guess that is why golf is a bit more difficult, each segment has special talents. 

Just a guess...

[skraeling]

1 minute ago, Jim Shaw said:

yes, played both those sports as well, I played catch insistently for hours with my friends and shagged fly balls, so did lots of practicing there, in hockey I would shoot pucks for hours trying to pick corners and learn how to do a good slap shot etc, my coaches were people I "took" lessons from. 

I see the golf game broken down into segments, I have posted this before 

-long game

-long irons

-scorning irons

-wedges

-putting

and to succeed I have to be good at most and great at a couple, so I guess that is why golf is a bit more difficult, each segment has special talents. 

Just a guess...

now not just be good, be good repeatably.  Week to week?  Any one of those components of your game can absolutely depart you. 

[Josh Parker]

2 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

yes, played both those sports as well, I played catch insistently for hours with my friends and shagged fly balls, so did lots of practicing there, in hockey I would shoot pucks for hours trying to pick corners and learn how to do a good slap shot etc, my coaches were people I "took" lessons from. 

I see the golf game broken down into segments, I have posted this before 

-long game

-long irons

-scorning irons

-wedges

-putting

and to succeed I have to be good at most and great at a couple, so I guess that is why golf is a bit more difficult, each segment has special talents. 

Just a guess...

Great explanation!  I always say it's simple yet difficult!  I agree with the, you have to be good at most and great at a couple. 

[Jim Shaw]

58 minutes ago, Silver Fawkes said:

That's a really good question. I appreciate you asking that. Honestly, no one ever has before when I've described golf this way. 

Disclaimer: This is what makes golf more difficult to ME relative to all the other sports I've played. Even if my language might be interpreted this way, I don't think my experience or opinion is the same for everyone. It's just my interpretation of what I've experienced. 

Ok... Golf is the most difficult sport I've ever played because the skills required to play it are absolutely foreign. Yes there are other stick/ball sports. Yes they have their own skill sets and all of that. But what I'm talking about is playing any sport in such a way where you feel even a modicum of proficiency. You can play soccer with family or friends in the backyard and have a great time and feel like you actually played soccer. Same way with American football. You can throw the thing and someone can catch it. Anyone can play baseball, kickball, hell even bowling... tennis, pickleball, running, cycling. 

Golf is not like that. Sure you can walk out in your backyard with a wedge and a few golf balls... but good luck. Golf to me is unique in this way. You can't just walk out and pick up a club and a ball and "play golf". If you do decide to play golf, you get some clubs and walk out to the range and try to start hitting balls and guess how you're going to feel. I remember the first time I did. I was 33 years old on a municipal range in Houston, TX. I could make contact with the ball and it went forward. I paid and walked out to the first tee... I hit the ball and it went forward and right... WAAAAYYYY right. I drove the cart over to where I thought it was and couldn't find it. I dropped another ball in the fairway and pulled some club and hit that. Topped it. It went about 30 yards.... After more than a dozen strokes I made it to the green. I putted a few times and got the ball in the hole. Then I got back in my golf cart and drove back to the clubhouse and got in my car and thought to myself, "This is the dumbest f****** thing I've ever done. Who in the world would want to do this? You can't even PLAY the game if you haven't done it before!!"

My degree is in music, classical guitar performance to be specific, though I am a music producer now more than a performer. But even with music, every instrument I've ever learned to play be it guitar, bass, drums, or piano I learned to play with an amount of proficiency that made it enjoyable in a VASTLY shorter time than anything related to golf. 

To me that's the difference... The skill level and time required to play the game with at least some level of proficiency that allows you to enjoy it. 

thanks, interesting seque to music... I love that.

[Jim Shaw]

1 minute ago, Josh Parker said:

Great explanation!  I always say it's simple yet difficult!  I agree with the, you have to be good at most and great at a couple. 

and the "good" and "great" can change from day to day as long as the numbers add up at the end of the day lol

[Josh Parker]

Just now, Jim Shaw said:

and the "good" and "great" can change from day to day as long as the numbers add up at the end of the day lol

Ha. No doubt. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, storm319 said:

This exaggerated perspective does not align with reality. 

First, course data over the past two decades does not support the course lengthening trend claims. According to the USGAs own data, the majority of course lengthening occurred pre1990. 

Also, no one on tour is regularly driving it 360+ nor does any data support that becoming the norm on tour in the next several decades if ever. I can’t find it right now, but someone posted data on GolfWRX showing the average par 4 2nd shot on tour being a 7 iron, not the driver wedge that those in favor of a rollback claim. The tendency for higher ranked names on tour (who tend to be longer than average) getting more tv exposer may be partially to blame for this perception. 

Lastly, the leaders of the ruling bodies have pretty much made it clear that this change really won’t be solving any of your perceived problems, they are simply moving the starting line back.

It’s funny how often this gets repeated because someone on tv says so, because golf course designers and owners who want to host a pga tour event or a major claim they need more land due to the distances the pros hit it. The golf course superintendents association has an 18 year study that also shows courses aren’t lengthening, fairways are actually somewhat narrowing and a few other things that contradict this narrative. Then there is the information that shows in the last 5-10 years new courses are being built at around 6500 yards. Data also shows swing speeds were stagnant between 2019-2021 slowing down in 2022-23. 
 

A lot of that has been posted in this thread or referenced and yet people choose to ignore or don’t go back several pages and read posts before repeating these perspectives

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s funny how often this gets repeated because someone on tv says so, because golf course designers and owners who want to host a pga tour event or a major claim they need more land due to the distances the pros hit it. The golf course superintendents association has an 18 year study that also shows courses aren’t lengthening, fairways are actually somewhat narrowing and a few other things that contradict this narrative. Then there is the information that shows in the last 5-10 years new courses are being built at around 6500 yards. Data also shows swing speeds were stagnant between 2019-2021 slowing down in 2022-23. 
 

A lot of that has been posted in this thread or referenced and yet people choose to ignore or don’t go back several pages and read posts before repeating these perspectives

 

Wait ppl don't read and just post blindly? That never happens here!

Insert all the sarcasm possible.

[Javs]

2 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Wait ppl don't read and just post blindly? That never happens here!

Insert all the sarcasm possible.

I was so hoping someone would say something……. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 minute ago, Javs said:

I was so hoping someone would say something……. 

All we have to do is look at the testing threads to see how prime examples of just reading a title or headline and not paying attention. 

Is what it is, but no surprise. I blame clips and reels.

[FrogginBullfish]

8 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

All we have to do is look at the testing threads to see how prime examples of just reading a title or headline and not paying attention. 

Is what it is, but no surprise. I blame clips and reels.

Heck, some folks don't even read the posts they're replying to

[Javs]

15 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

All we have to do is look at the testing threads to see how prime examples of just reading a title or headline and not paying attention. 

Is what it is, but no surprise. I blame clips and reels.

Yes Sir, I just found it funny. I have come to expect that when a topic gets more than 3 pages then comments will repeat.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Javs

[Stuka44]

11 hours ago, Silver Fawkes said:

Just to add to this... I would wager anyone could go out with some friends, some tennis rackets and balls, and play tennis and have a great time. But if tennis were like golf... Imagine swinging at the ball and completely missing a third of the time. The times you do make contact it shanks off the side of the racket and flies out of the fence surrounding the court. Other times when you hit it the ball goes straight into the net or bounces up and hits you in the face. Then maybe a few times you actually hit the ball and get the ball over the net. THEN the person you hit it to has the same experience as you do. So you never really end up hitting the ball to each other at all. You're not playing tennis in any way whatsoever. 

That's what I'm getting at. That's where golf is different for me. 

Welcome to the forum! I agree with you, but people miss one important fact when they compare golf to other sports.  I would say GOLF is not the hardest sport I have learned, because golf is not a sport for me.   But here is hopefully my last input on this Rollback Nonsense!  

Golf is different from other sports in one main way that the USGA & R&A are ignoring.  Golf unlike almost every other sport has NEVER BEEN, AND WILL NEVER BE A   COMPETITIVE activity  for 95 percent of the people who play it. NOBODY plays match play, where the other person is forced to pick up his ball after 4 hits, because I have made par already, and its on to the next hole. 

I played tennis competitively at the High School and College level.   You can not actually play tennis and have ANY FUN WHATSOEVER if you are not good at it.  The ability of your opponent to hit the ball harder than you, hit is closer to the lines, and run you back and forth, directly affects how many times you actually make contact with the ball in a match.  You can lose a game in tennis and never hit the ball because you were ACED 4 times.  You must get better if playing tennis because ACTUALLY LOSING, 6-0, 6-0, SUCKS, and most people who get together to play tennis, there will be a loser, and a WINNER!

Golf for RECREATIONAL golfers(90% of all who play) is NOT a SPORT.   It is a time passing ACTIVITY, where socializing, and drinking for many is paramount.   The rules of golf really only apply to people playing competitively.  So for the USGA, & R&A to be so arrogant, to believe that they speak for me, and believe that they have to right to effectively FORCE, manufacturers(who are not owned by them) to stop producing a ball I enjoy using at this point in time in my weekend activity, NOT GOLF COMPETITION where their rules are followed, IS OUTRAGEOUS. 

Everyone should be OUTRAGED, at these TWO POWER DRUNK entities, who believe they SPEAK FOR EVERYONE and  answer to NO ONE.   To allow two different balls would be to GIVE UP A LITTLE POWER, that is why they don't want to do it plain and simple.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Stuka44

[Alan Scalzi]

I really never understood why, if your playing in any of the golf tournaments  sanctioned by PGA that all the players are not using the same manufactered ball! I like to compare it to Formula 1 racing, they give you 3 types of tires to  choose from and you have to use them. Why not go with one manufacturer for events, its not like the players are purchasing the balls anyway and besides the rules of the game nothing else is the same!!!

[Stuka44]

16 hours ago, storm319 said:

I am less interested in watching players bomb 360+ yard drives into nearly anywhere on the course followed by 9-iron or wedge,

Let's be clear, I could give two S@&*s what the USGA & R&A do with their professional game, but they have NO RIGHT to be trying to affect my,

no rule following, there are no winners, no losers, I don't care what anyone else in my foursome scores, I don't care how far anyone else in my foursome hits it, nobody is getting filthy rich off of, ignore as many strokes as you want to because it doesn't effect me, 

WEEKEND GAME!!!!!

[RickyBobby_PR]

57 minutes ago, Stuka44 said:

NOBODY plays match play, where the other person is forced to pick up his ball after 4 hits, because I have made par already, and its on to the next hole. 

Not sure about this. There are money games everywhere I go. The group I used to play with had competition amongst the whole group and most if not all the foursomes had some kind of competition within them. The foursome I played with we had several games going on, one was match play, wolf and skin. If it was just two of us it was always match play. 

Go into a clubhouse or the outside patio and guys are settling up bets for all kinds of different styles of play. I would see march play every Saturday between the same group of guys.

Sure there’s a large golfing public that just plays for fun but there is a significant amount that compete when they play their weekday or weekend rounds

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Stuka44 said:

The rules of golf really only apply to people playing competitively. 

Incorrect. It’s for those who carry handicaps that don’t compete as well. It’s what helps keep the handicap system fair. 

[fixyurdivot]

7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Insert all the sarcasm possible.

New post response emoji perhaps? 

[Stuka44]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Sure there’s a large golfing public that just plays for fun but there is a significant amount that compete when they play their weekday or weekend rounds

 This is the point I am making.

I would be interested to know what percentage of ALL rounds that are played on a weekend across the country, by all golfers, involve people betting to the extent, that no gimme's,  are given, and the rules of the game are adhered to, without ANY EXCEPTION.  

[Stuka44]

5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Incorrect. It’s for those who carry handicaps that don’t compete as well. It’s what helps keep the handicap system fair. 

Again, what percentage of all golf played do you really believe that people are USING A HANDICAP FOR ANYTHING, during their weekend round.