GolfSpy AFG Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 So, I have any embarrassing tale to tell. That said, I'm hoping I can glean some wisdom from the some of the expert club ho's on this forum. @RickyBobby_PR, @Golfspy_Lukes to name a few...hoping you'll chime in, but maybe this will be cautionary tale for others to learn from too. So, be patient, I'll try to make a long story short. About a year ago, after fighting some golfer's elbow, I got in a fitting bay at a GolfUSA in Omaha and saw some significant gains in distance and spin in moving from the Project X 6.0's in my JPX 919 Forged's to stiff Aerotech Steelfiber i95's. So, I made the switch...left my set with them, they ordered the shafts, and I'd be back in a week or so to pick up my re-shafted sticks. That said, the fitting was me hitting a JPX 921 Forged from the demo cart with my stock shaft, then trying the same head in the Steelfiber. When figuring out the specs for the new build, the fitter measured the swing weight of the demo cart with the Steelfiber, said it was a D2.5, and because I'd been flushing them said we should target that weight in the re-shafted clubs. Sounded good to me, the only nuance being I wanted to re-grip everything with my "go-to" midsize Golf Pride MMC. When I came back to pick them up, the builder (not the same guy as the fitter), said my midsize grip was too heavy and it was producing swing weights in the "C" range...that I would have to play a Winn Dri-Tac Lite to get back into the D2.5 swing weight I wanted. Didn't sound right to me, but the builder has been there for a while, so I grudgingly said ok. Okay...so fast forward to the past 2 months. I got new woods and hybrids at Club Champion, all at D6, and the fitter said I should really take a look at my irons because he was skeptical of the build. Sounded like a Club Champion sales pitch to me, but he planted the seed of doubt in my head, so I took my irons to a local shop and asked them to check the swing weights of my irons and wedges. Here's the result: 5 Iron - D3 6 Iron - D1 7 Iron - D2 8 Iron - D2 9 Iron - D2 PW - D5 GW (Set) - D5 54 (Vokey) - D8 60 (Vokey) - D6 So, I'm all over the place. The way this new local guy explained it to me, the guy that re-shafted them probably just swapped the shafts, and should have inserted a small weight or used a lead powder to achieve the desired swing weight. He's also said for $300 he'll pull everything, swing weight them out to my requested specs, and re-grip with the midsize MMC's I want. So, I don't know what to believe. First (stupid) question, the goal is a consistent swing weight top down throughout the set, not some sliding scale that gets heavier in the shorter clubs? Second, given that I've now been fitted to D6 woods and hybrids, I'm inclined to have my irons set up at D4s and wedges at D5, but I'd be curious of anyone else's thoughts? Obviously, I'm in need of some remedial club-building info here. Thanks all. GolfSpy_APH 1 Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbers Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said: So, I have any embarrassing tale to tell. That said, I'm hoping I can glean some wisdom from the some of the expert club ho's on this forum. @RickyBobby_PR, @Golfspy_Lukes to name a few...hoping you'll chime in, but maybe this will be cautionary tale for others to learn from too. So, be patient, I'll try to make a long story short. About a year ago, after fighting some golfer's elbow, I got in a fitting bay at a GolfUSA in Omaha and saw some significant gains in distance and spin in moving from the Project X 6.0's in my JPX 919 Forged's to stiff Aerotech Steelfiber i95's. So, I made the switch...left my set with them, they ordered the shafts, and I'd be back in a week or so to pick up my re-shafted sticks. That said, the fitting was me hitting a JPX 921 Forged from the demo cart with my stock shaft, then trying the same head in the Steelfiber. When figuring out the specs for the new build, the fitter measured the swing weight of the demo cart with the Steelfiber, said it was a D2.5, and because I'd been flushing them said we should target that weight in the re-shafted clubs. Sounded good to me, the only nuance being I wanted to re-grip everything with my "go-to" midsize Golf Pride MMC. When I came back to pick them up, the builder (not the same guy as the fitter), said my midsize grip was too heavy and it was producing swing weights in the "C" range...that I would have to play a Winn Dri-Tac Lite to get back into the D2.5 swing weight I wanted. Didn't sound right to me, but the builder has been there for a while, so I grudgingly said ok. Okay...so fast forward to the past 2 months. I got new woods and hybrids at Club Champion, all at D6, and the fitter said I should really take a look at my irons because he was skeptical of the build. Sounded like a Club Champion sales pitch to me, but he planted the seed of doubt in my head, so I took my irons to a local shop and asked them to check the swing weights of my irons and wedges. Here's the result: 5 Iron - D3 6 Iron - D1 7 Iron - D2 8 Iron - D2 9 Iron - D2 PW - D5 GW (Set) - D5 54 (Vokey) - D8 60 (Vokey) - D6 So, I'm all over the place. The way this new local guy explained it to me, the guy that re-shafted them probably just swapped the shafts, and should have inserted a small weight or used a lead powder to achieve the desired swing weight. He's also said for $300 he'll pull everything, swing weight them out to my requested specs, and re-grip with the midsize MMC's I want. So, I don't know what to believe. First (stupid) question, the goal is a consistent swing weight top down throughout the set, not some sliding scale that gets heavier in the shorter clubs? Second, given that I've now been fitted to D6 woods and hybrids, I'm inclined to have my irons set up at D4s and wedges at D5, but I'd be curious of anyone else's thoughts? Obviously, I'm in need of some remedial club-building info here. Thanks all. I'll chime in for what it's worth. Having a consistency from the longest iron to the PW is pretty normal. It's not unusual for wedges to be a bit heftier in terms of swing weight. I'd strongly suggest that if he revamps the clubs you ask him to do whatever he's going to do from the butt end of the shaft as much as possible. Pouring a weighting powder down the shaft will invariably move the "sweet spot" of the club toward the hosel of the club. If it were me, and I know it isn't, I'd be talking to you about having a wee bit of irregularity in the length of irons rather than having them move lockstep downward in 1/2 inch increments. Better a 3/8 inch difference in length (as opposed to 1/2 inch) than messing with the head end of the club. As to swing weight? How do you hit the clubs as they sit now in terms of how they swing weight? Is there a noticeable improvement with one of the higher swing weights versus the heavier swing weight? Perhaps a better way to ask it "which club in the inconsistent set of irons you have do you hit the best/feels the best/etc? Your irons, as they sit, were "assembled" rather than truly "built" by the first person who worked on them. There are mechanics and then there are "parts changers"; you got the latter... Edited November 13, 2022 by Bobbers Quote Ping G430 Max 10.5* Ping G430 SFT 3 wood and Ping G430 HL 7 wood SR flex Ping G430 4,5,6,7 hybrids SR flex Cleveland Launcher XL Halo 8,9,P,G, SW irons A Flex Cleveland Smart Sole S wedge A Flex Cobra Nova putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I’m not as sensitive to swingweight as others might be so I can play d3/4 in driver and woods and d0-d2 in irons and d5/6 in wedges. The key thing is you want to keep a similar feel thru the bag. That may be swingweight it may be overall weight to achieve it. This type of stuff really is more personal choices GolfSpy_BNG and GolfSpy_APH 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhammer Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read one can have a consistent swing weight from top to bottom, except wedges which get heavier, OR, one can have increased weight with each club moving down the set. However, no one should have swing weights that are jumping all over the place as you have now. Gripit 1 Quote Driver: Speed Zone 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow Shaft 3 Wood: King Speedzone 13.5* HZRDUS Smoke Black Shaft 2 & 3 Hybrids: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft Irons: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts Wedges: PM Grind 54* & 58* Putter: Dual Force Rossi II Ball: Whatever I find in the woods HCP:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 Thanks everyone for your replies. Does using a small weights or lead in the epoxy really move the sweet spot towards the hosel? The Club Champion rep also told me this is their method for getting to the right swing weight with Steelfiber's in particular. And I can't follow the logic of attempting to achieve the swing weight at the butt end...how would that not actually decrease the swing weight? Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 11 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said: Thanks everyone for your replies. Does using a small weights or lead in the epoxy really move the sweet spot towards the hosel? The Club Champion rep also told me this is their method for getting to the right swing weight with Steelfiber's in particular. And I can't follow the logic of attempting to achieve the swing weight at the butt end...how would that not actually decrease the swing weight? @McGolfcould probably give better answers since he does this daily. Yes, adding tip weights to a shaft will slightly move the CoG, but probably not enough to concern yourself with. Off the rack your 919s were all D2 until PW and lower which was D3 (https://mygolfspy.com/2019-mizuno-jpx919-irons-review/). You are also dropping the weight of the shaft which will impact swingweight. Your swimgweights are pretty close to what they should be except a couple of irons. If you put the midsize grips on you will definitely drop the swingweight and would need to disassemble and put tip weights if you want permanent or lead tape if you want semi permanent. Have you played them? How do they feel? Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 minute ago, cnosil said: @McGolfcould probably give better answers since he does this daily. Yes, adding tip weights to a shaft will slightly move the CoG, but probably not enough to concern yourself with. Off the rack your 919s were all D2 until PW and lower which was D3 (https://mygolfspy.com/2019-mizuno-jpx919-irons-review/). You are also dropping the weight of the shaft which will impact swingweight. Your swimgweights are pretty close to what they should be except a couple of irons. If you put the midsize grips on you will definitely drop the swingweight and would need to disassemble and put tip weights if you want permanent or lead tape if you want semi permanent. Have you played them? How do they feel? Yeah, I've played a season with them. They feel alright, but honestly they did seem a bit off and I can definitely feel disparities between the extremes. I'm inclined to take them in to the guy that weighed them for me and have them all rebuilt to D4s in the irons, D5s in the wedges. Frankly having messed it up once I'm just wanting to make sure I go into this with eyes wide open. And moving the CoG slightly closer to the hosel might not be a big deal for me; as you know (hold the jokes) I sometimes live too close to the hosel anyway. Bobbers, cnosil, GolfSpy_BNG and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGolf Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Had to read the entire thread to get a better idea of the questions to answer 1) something does not compute when leaving a shaft that weighs in at about 120 and you are going to a 95 g shaft the swing weights should go down by say 2 ish points. If we assume , yes i know what happens when we do that, you should see about a D1 D0 with a standard grip. So a D2.5 is not to far off the beaten path. 2) if you decided to go with a slightly larger grip that is your choice by either preference or by the fit. Depending on the grip used in the demo cart which is typically a tour velvet type grip, the difference may required a 4 ish gram tip weight. You probably wont get to it exactly but the feel will be comparable. 3) as posted, don’t get to hung up on the swing weight. You were striping D2.5 if it feels good swinging then you should be ok. From a build stand point a swing weight point in the either direction is in a spec as most folks can’t feel the difference of 3. 4) adding weight to the head will only really start to move the CoG when you approach 10 g funkyjudge, cnosil, edingc and 4 others 7 Quote Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg Graphite Design XC 6S GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce Putter - Makefield VS LH Ball - truvis Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD. HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 hour ago, McGolf said: Had to read the entire thread to get a better idea of the questions to answer 1) something does not compute when leaving a shaft that weighs in at about 120 and you are going to a 95 g shaft the swing weights should go down by say 2 ish points. If we assume , yes i know what happens when we do that, you should see about a D1 D0 with a standard grip. So a D2.5 is not to far off the beaten path. 2) if you decided to go with a slightly larger grip that is your choice by either preference or by the fit. Depending on the grip used in the demo cart which is typically a tour velvet type grip, the difference may required a 4 ish gram tip weight. You probably wont get to it exactly but the feel will be comparable. 3) as posted, don’t get to hung up on the swing weight. You were striping D2.5 if it feels good swinging then you should be ok. From a build stand point a swing weight point in the either direction is in a spec as most folks can’t feel the difference of 3. 4) adding weight to the head will only really start to move the CoG when you approach 10 g Thanks for chiming in! Comforting stuff. And, good to hear from you. Hope I'll see you in the spring... McGolf 1 Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 15 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said: Thanks for chiming in! Comforting stuff. And, good to hear from you. Hope I'll see you in the spring... ... Adding to McGolfs excellent reply, I used to agonize over swingweight. If I closed my eyes and gently waggled the club I could tell an ever so slight difference in a 2 point swing weight change. One point was too close. That said, actually playing them I could tell absolutely no difference. I preferred lead tape over tip weights but every set I have taken apart form OEMs have a ton of tip weighting difference. Mizuno can be surprising using either none or very heavy tip weights. And even then a 2+ or - is a really good range from an OEM. A custom builder should be within + or -1. I also like a heavier wedge in the D6 range. Additionally some may disagree but a heavier grip basically tricks the swing weight scale and I have always felt the weight of the grip is not in the part of the club I am swinging, so if it feels good swinging I don't worry about the slight counter balance from the grip. ... So in the end I agree with RB, it is a personal choice. The irony is ignorance is bliss but once you are aware of the difference your mind can play Alfred Hitchcock games with you. Personally I would add a little lead tape to the 6 iron (D2) and a little weight to the LW (D8) and save $300. GolfSpy_BNG, Gripit, GolfSpy AFG and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) As a Professional Clubfitter, I have always shot for a swingweight variance of no more than +/- 0.5 swingweight points throughout the set (driver through 9-iron or PW), unless I am building an MOI-matched set. From the A or G wedge through the most-lofted wedge, I shoot for a progression that starts about two swingweight points higher than the PW (unless the gap wedge is used as a full-swing club, in which case I match it up with the rest of the irons), and then goes to about +4 swingweight points for the SW and LW. For MOI-matched irons, the swingweight almost always progresses from lightest in the longest iron to heaviest in the wedges. I generally see a progression from about D0 or D1 in the longest iron to about D3 to D4 in the wedges in MOI-matched sets. Edited November 16, 2022 by funkyjudge Typos chisag, Headhammer, cnosil and 1 other 4 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 hours ago, funkyjudge said: As a Professional Clubfitter, I have always shot for a swingweight variance of no more than +/- 0.5 swingweight points throughout the set (driver through 9-iron or PW), unless I am building an MOI-matched set. From the A or G wedge through the most-lofted wedge, I shoot for a progression that starts about two swingweight points higher than the PW (unless the gap wedge is used as a full-swing club, in which case I match it up with the rest of the irons), and then goes to about +4 swingweight points for the SW and LW. For MOI-matched irons, the swingweight almost always progresses from lightest in the longest iron to heaviest in the wedges. I generally see a progression from about D0 or D1 in the longest iron to about D3 to D4 in the wedges in MOI-matched sets. Since you and the OP are both in PA. might be a good idea to set up a meeting and you two can work it out in person. That is what I would recommend for the OP at least. As for swing weight, I like to build up a set of irons so all the clubs are the same SW from longest to shortest. Adding lead weight in the hosel of the head will NOT hurt anything. Fact is all of Golfsmith and Wishon clubheads had a small weight port at the bottom of the hosel for this very purpose. Golfsmith even sold the weights that fit into this weight port for the purpose of adjusting the swing weight of any of their clubs. Great feature in a head that I rather wish other club makers would include into their head designs. With todays club with no port in the hosel, I just add a lead weight into the tip end of the shaft to adjust the swing weight to what I'm looking for. This said, I'd have to say you got screwed over by GOLFUSA when they re-shafted your irons. It would appear that the guy that assembled your clubs was a useless jerk. IF he could NOT build up your irons with the mid size grips you requested to the swing weigh you wanted, he should NOT be building clubs in the first place. It's not that hard If one knows what one is doing. GolfSpy AFG 1 Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edingc Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Obviously have some professional advice here now, but to chime in, I wouldn't agonize too much about the swing weight being identical. Sure, with fancy digital scales we can get things exact (and it's a shame your builder didn't do that in the first place), but D1-D3 is not much. I'd hazard to guess your 5 iron is just a slight bit longer than whatever it should be, wouldn't take much to move from D2 to D3. Point being, for those of us without fancy scales (I use the cheapest Golfworks one with a sliding weight and a sticker that denotes what the weights are), there's always going to be a 1-ish point tolerance across the set. As to your preferences - like you've suggested I like my irons to be around D3-D4, my pitching wedge to be about D5, and wedges D6. That's just what I've done for my past couple of sets as that's what they have swing weighted out too without much effort. I know from experience that if I get too close to D0 with my irons I start losing feeling of the clubhead. I don't know how the i95s are weighted in comparison to my i125s, but I did have to add brass weights to some of Hogans to get them weighted correctly. But there is so much manufacturing tolerance that they vary by club, and some didn't need them at all. That being said, I also built them with my gamer grips in mind (undersized), so I didn't have to add as much weight to the head to get to that D4 number as you would with a heavier mid-sized grip. GolfSpy AFG 1 Quote Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024) Driver: Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post 3 Wood: Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X 20° Hybrid: PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X 4 Utility: Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff 5-PW: Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting 50°, 54°, 58°: Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread Putter: L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review Grips: Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up Ball: Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow Tracked By: Shot Scope H4 Bag: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync Riding On: Bag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls | 2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapotomous Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 For the 5i thru 9i, I vote for the lead tape usage to get them dialed in as exact as you want after installing the midsize grips. The 919 forged even has a nice shelf that is a perfect place for the tape. As others mentioned you probably wont notice a playing difference but that OCD part of your brain that has you obsessing about it will be satisfied they are the same.....not that I know anything about that.... You can even locate the tape toward where your miss generally is, toe side or heel side. For the wedges I think feel preference rules the day. Compared to my 4-9 I prefer heavier wedges as I generally don't take full swings with them. For me, heavier (and stiffer shafts) means better aim; others may prefer lighter and more flex in their wedges. If you now have good distance and target control from the wedges then I wouldn't change them and make those specs your baseline for future replacements. chisag and GolfSpy AFG 2 Quote Modern Bag: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex; 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex; Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0; Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S; Heppler Fetch; Ball - MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder Classic Bag: Driver - Persimmon; 3w - Speed Slot; 5w - Tour Block; 3 - pw - Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson; putter - bullseye standard or flange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 3 hours ago, IONEPUTT said: Since you and the OP are both in PA. might be a good idea to set up a meeting and you two can work it out in person. That is what I would recommend for the OP at least. As for swing weight, I like to build up a set of irons so all the clubs are the same SW from longest to shortest. Adding lead weight in the hosel of the head will NOT hurt anything. Fact is all of Golfsmith and Wishon clubheads had a small weight port at the bottom of the hosel for this very purpose. Golfsmith even sold the weights that fit into this weight port for the purpose of adjusting the swing weight of any of their clubs. Great feature in a head that I rather wish other club makers would include into their head designs. With todays club with no port in the hosel, I just add a lead weight into the tip end of the shaft to adjust the swing weight to what I'm looking for. This said, I'd have to say you got screwed over by GOLFUSA when they re-shafted your irons. It would appear that the guy that assembled your clubs was a useless jerk. IF he could NOT build up your irons with the mid size grips you requested to the swing weigh you wanted, he should NOT be building clubs in the first place. It's not that hard If one knows what one is doing. I think that you directed this response to the wrong person. Virtually nothing in your post refers to me or anything that I have written. chisag and Bobbers 2 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 18 hours ago, funkyjudge said: I think that you directed this response to the wrong person. Virtually nothing in your post refers to me or anything that I have written. I was merely stating the fact that you and the OP both live in PA. and it might be a good idea for both of you to get together to solve his issues with his irons. To that I added my own personal experience with swing weighting irons that I learned from over 19 years of club building. Since YOU live in PA and the OP lives in PA. I think I directed my response to the correct person, unless you are not interested in helping out a fellow site member that lives near you? Hopefully the OP will see this post and decide if he wants to contact you for assistance. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Sorry if I misread your post; the way that you worded it, it sounded as if you thought that I had fitted the OP and that I built his clubs. You certainly have a strange way of presenting things. Incidentally, although we both live in PA, we live about 3-3.5 hours away from each other. I was just at a funeral (family member) yesterday, and it was only about 2/3 of the way to Carlisle, PA where the OP lives. That drive, traveling most of the way on the PA Turnpike at the 70 MPH speed limit, took two hours each way. It is not like we live around the corner from each other. GolfSpy_APH and GaDawg 1 1 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 22 hours ago, IONEPUTT said: I was merely stating the fact that you and the OP both live in PA. and it might be a good idea for both of you to get together to solve his issues with his irons. To that I added my own personal experience with swing weighting irons that I learned from over 19 years of club building. Since YOU live in PA and the OP lives in PA. I think I directed my response to the correct person, unless you are not interested in helping out a fellow site member that lives near you? Hopefully the OP will see this post and decide if he wants to contact you for assistance. On 11/12/2022 at 6:58 PM, Getoffmylawn said: So, I have any embarrassing tale to tell. That said, I'm hoping I can glean some wisdom from the some of the expert club ho's on this forum. @RickyBobby_PR, @Golfspy_Lukes to name a few...hoping you'll chime in, but maybe this will be cautionary tale for others to learn from too. So, be patient, I'll try to make a long story short. About a year ago, after fighting some golfer's elbow, I got in a fitting bay at a GolfUSA in Omaha and saw some significant gains in distance and spin in moving from the Project X 6.0's in my JPX 919 Forged's to stiff Aerotech Steelfiber i95's. So, I made the switch...left my set with them, they ordered the shafts, and I'd be back in a week or so to pick up my re-shafted sticks. That said, the fitting was me hitting a JPX 921 Forged from the demo cart with my stock shaft, then trying the same head in the Steelfiber. When figuring out the specs for the new build, the fitter measured the swing weight of the demo cart with the Steelfiber, said it was a D2.5, and because I'd been flushing them said we should target that weight in the re-shafted clubs. Sounded good to me, the only nuance being I wanted to re-grip everything with my "go-to" midsize Golf Pride MMC. When I came back to pick them up, the builder (not the same guy as the fitter), said my midsize grip was too heavy and it was producing swing weights in the "C" range...that I would have to play a Winn Dri-Tac Lite to get back into the D2.5 swing weight I wanted. Didn't sound right to me, but the builder has been there for a while, so I grudgingly said ok. Okay...so fast forward to the past 2 months. I got new woods and hybrids at Club Champion, all at D6, and the fitter said I should really take a look at my irons because he was skeptical of the build. Sounded like a Club Champion sales pitch to me, but he planted the seed of doubt in my head, so I took my irons to a local shop and asked them to check the swing weights of my irons and wedges. Here's the result: 5 Iron - D3 6 Iron - D1 7 Iron - D2 8 Iron - D2 9 Iron - D2 PW - D5 GW (Set) - D5 54 (Vokey) - D8 60 (Vokey) - D6 So, I'm all over the place. The way this new local guy explained it to me, the guy that re-shafted them probably just swapped the shafts, and should have inserted a small weight or used a lead powder to achieve the desired swing weight. He's also said for $300 he'll pull everything, swing weight them out to my requested specs, and re-grip with the midsize MMC's I want. So, I don't know what to believe. First (stupid) question, the goal is a consistent swing weight top down throughout the set, not some sliding scale that gets heavier in the shorter clubs? Second, given that I've now been fitted to D6 woods and hybrids, I'm inclined to have my irons set up at D4s and wedges at D5, but I'd be curious of anyone else's thoughts? Obviously, I'm in need of some remedial club-building info here. Thanks all. Are you located in Omaha, or Carlisle, PA? If you are in Carlisle, I may be able to look at your clubs and see if there is anything that can (relatively) easily be done to them to remedy the situation. I have family (in-laws) in Dauphin, York and Cumberland Counties, and I am out there every 3 to 4 months (more than that during the holiday season). Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, funkyjudge said: Sorry if I misread your post; the way that you worded it, it sounded as if you thought that I had fitted the OP and that I built his clubs. You certainly have a strange way of presenting things. Incidentally, although we both live in PA, we live about 3-3.5 hours away from each other. I was just at a funeral (family member) yesterday, and it was only about 2/3 of the way to Carlisle, PA where the OP lives. That drive, traveling most of the way on the PA Turnpike at the 70 MPH speed limit, took two hours each way. It is not like we live around the corner from each other. ... Com'on Doug, I am sure there are some Physicians, Accountants and Lawyers from PA that are MGS members and are willing to jump in their car driving 3-5 hours and give free advice and services to other MGS members living in their state. GaDawg, Bobbers and funkyjudge 3 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONEPUTT Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 1 hour ago, chisag said: ... Com'on Doug, I am sure there are some Physicians, Accountants and Lawyers from PA that are MGS members and are willing to jump in their car driving 3-5 hours and give free advice and services to other MGS members living in their state. I don't remember posting anything about giving FREE advice in my comment. just figured that they could help each other. OP gets his club fixed and a club builder gets some extra work and some money in the deal. That would be a win for both of them. I have not been in PA for over 55 years so I have no idea how far apart these two gentlemen are, but I figured it was worth mentioning that they are both in PA and it might be a good fit if they got together on this issue. I didn't mean to start an argument guys. Have a nice weekend and I hope it's a lot warmer where you than it is in Colorado this week. High of 24 today, low of 8. Quote All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 4 hours ago, IONEPUTT said: I don't remember posting anything about giving FREE advice in my comment. just figured that they could help each other. OP gets his club fixed and a club builder gets some extra work and some money in the deal. That would be a win for both of them. I have not been in PA for over 55 years so I have no idea how far apart these two gentlemen are, but I figured it was worth mentioning that they are both in PA and it might be a good fit if they got together on this issue. I didn't mean to start an argument guys. Have a nice weekend and I hope it's a lot warmer where you than it is in Colorado this week. High of 24 today, low of 8. No problem; it's been a long and very stressful week with a death in the family, life insurance and Medicare issues to try and resolve and a funeral yesterday. I didn't mean to jump on you! It also appears that the OP may actually now be in Nebraska, as he had the clubs fitted in Omaha and went back to the fitter in Omaha a week later. Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 14 hours ago, funkyjudge said: No problem; it's been a long and very stressful week with a death in the family, life insurance and Medicare issues to try and resolve and a funeral yesterday. I didn't mean to jump on you! It also appears that the OP may actually now be in Nebraska, as he had the clubs fitted in Omaha and went back to the fitter in Omaha a week later. I'm in Carlisle. That fitting, and then the re-shafting work, was last year. Thanks for the offer; I'll let you know how I proceed. My newest idea that might be gaining traction with the wife is to just get new sticks! If I do that, I'll probably at least wait until spring-summer of next year and just go a lead tape route on my current set for now. More to follow... chisag and cnosil 2 Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 So I took the sticks in to the local Carlisle shop here to get re-gripped and swing weighted to consistent weights through the set. (@funkyjudge, appreciate your willingness to maybe link up and take a look, but the local shop here offers a hefty military discount, and I wasn't going to have you drive all that way.) The plot thickens however...a day after I dropped them off, he called me to tell me he'd made a discovery with my clubs: lead tape at the butt end of my clubs under the grip!?!?! Can someone explain that to me? I'm no club-building expert, but as I said in my original post, the first "builder" explained that I had to have the Dri-Tac Lite because my i95 Steelfiber's were making it impossible to achieve a D3 swing weight without a very light grip. So, why in the @$#% would you need lead tape under the grip then??? I suppose the lesson to be learned here is to do your research, find a reputable club builder, and be an educated consumer...things I didn't do. Suppose to get my sticks back tomorrow, regripped and swing-weighted to D3 in 4-9 iron, D4 in PW and GW, and D5 in new SM9s. What a pain in the arse. cnosil and GaDawg 2 Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said: So I took the sticks in to the local Carlisle shop here to get re-gripped and swing weighted to consistent weights through the set. (@funkyjudge, appreciate your willingness to maybe link up and take a look, but the local shop here offers a hefty military discount, and I wasn't going to have you drive all that way.) The plot thickens however...a day after I dropped them off, he called me to tell me he'd made a discovery with my clubs: lead tape at the butt end of my clubs under the grip!?!?! Can someone explain that to me? I'm no club-building expert, but as I said in my original post, the first "builder" explained that I had to have the Dri-Tac Lite because my i95 Steelfiber's were making it impossible to achieve a D3 swing weight without a very light grip. So, why in the @$#% would you need lead tape under the grip then??? I suppose the lesson to be learned here is to do your research, find a reputable club builder, and be an educated consumer...things I didn't do. Suppose to get my sticks back tomorrow, regripped and swing-weighted to D3 in 4-9 iron, D4 in PW and GW, and D5 in new SM9s. What a pain in the arse. Lead tape under the grips is used basically for only one purpose: to counterweight the clubs. It makes absolutely zero sense to counterweight clubs if you are trying to get the swingweight up; in fact, you would want to add weight at the clubhead end, NOT at the grip end. What branch of the military? I am a USMC (Vietnam War era) veteran myself. Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 Just now, funkyjudge said: Lead tape under the grips is used basically for only one purpose: to counterweight the clubs. It makes absolutely zero sense to counterweight clubs if you are trying to get the swingweight up; in fact, you would want to add weight at the clubhead end, NOT at the grip end. What branch of the military? I am a USMC (Vietnam War era) veteran myself. That's what I thought; I don't understand it at all. It's almost like they were trying to unload a stock of grips they didn't want on hand any more. Either way I'm pretty ticked off at the place (not that I'll ever be back there...knock on wood...) I'm still Active Duty in the Air Force (21+ years). Moving this coming summer to not exactly sure where yet. Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said: That's what I thought; I don't understand it at all. It's almost like they were trying to unload a stock of grips they didn't want on hand any more. Either way I'm pretty ticked off at the place (not that I'll ever be back there...knock on wood...) I'm still Active Duty in the Air Force (21+ years). Moving this coming summer to not exactly sure where yet. I used to play every Saturday at McGuire AFB (Falcon Creek GC) and I enjoyed the rounds that I played at Eglin AFB in FL back in the 1980s, 90s and early 2000s. Edited December 12, 2022 by funkyjudge GolfSpy AFG 1 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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