Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Tony, Tony, Tony! Your editorial about the TOUR/LIV split is too pessimistic. The competition is still tight. We just have not yet developed an emotional bond to a lot of the new players. There is more room for guys from Latam, S Africa, and maybe even Asia, tho Asia golf is audience is captured by the swarm of ladies. There are growing pains. In a few years, I think the 2 mens' leagues will be more popular than ever, plus the DP Euro guys. In the USA/western hemisphere, LIV for the beer drinkers in person, TOUR for TV viewing (at least for me), when it is dark outside. Imagine, 20 years ago, did you think TOUR would have 5 or 6 events south of the border, or that the Nike would have an Argentina Open? Maybe you can't see Rahm vs Scheffler anymore. But out of this years crop of new successful guys on Tour, the fans will find a few favs to follow. And success is fickle. Look at Justin Thomas vs Jordan Speith. Wha happen? The brighest stars are not bright for now. Nick_D, Preeway, Bortery and 5 others 5 1 1 1 Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GolfSpy_APH Posted March 8 Popular Post Share Posted March 8 When the best players in the world aren't competing against eachother everyone suffers. It's why the majors are basically all that matters. I won't get into my LIV thoughts... They are well documented. I will say due to LIV and the split I have zero interest I watching anything but the majors. I still take part in the pick em but have yet to watch a second of the broadcast this season. The separation kills golf and there is clearly not going to be any headway anytime soon so everything is continually in flux and has little meaning. Plenty of golf fans are exhausted from it all and the longer this goes the more golf fans will be lost because we do want to see all the best playing against each other, not in two separate competing leagues. It's where there is only one NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and more. sirchunksalot, berkeleybob, cksurfdude and 8 others 8 3 Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFreddie Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said: When the best players in the world aren't competing against eachother everyone suffers. It's why the majors are basically all that matters. I won't get into my LIV thoughts... They are well documented. I will say due to LIV and the split I have zero interest I watching anything but the majors. I still take part in the pick em but have yet to watch a second of the broadcast this season. The separation kills golf and there is clearly not going to be any headway anytime soon so everything is continually in flux and has little meaning. Plenty of golf fans are exhausted from it all and the longer this goes the more golf fans will be lost because we do want to see all the best playing against each other, not in two separate competing leagues. It's where there is only one NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and more. Well said - your second to last point is most important imo. The only group that truly suffers are the fans - the product (on both sides) is not good in current state. William P, Dead Solid Bogey, Rob Person and 1 other 4 Quote Cobra 50th Anniversary Member Special Challenge/Testing Bag (Link Here) Driver: Paradym with Ventus TR Blue 60 Stiff Fairways: Aerojet Max 3W & 7W with Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX 70 Stiff Hybrid: King TEC 5H with KBS PGI 95 Stiff Irons: Forged TEC 5-GW with KBS Tour Lite Stiff Wedges: Jaws Raw Plasma 54 & 58 Putter: Phantom X 5.5 Ball: 2023 Maxfli Tour Other Reviews: Callaway Paradym Titleist White Box Testing (2023) Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredsharky Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 9 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said: When the best players in the world aren't competing against eachother everyone suffers. It's why the majors are basically all that matters. I won't get into my LIV thoughts... They are well documented. I will say due to LIV and the split I have zero interest I watching anything but the majors. I still take part in the pick em but have yet to watch a second of the broadcast this season. The separation kills golf and there is clearly not going to be any headway anytime soon so everything is continually in flux and has little meaning. Plenty of golf fans are exhausted from it all and the longer this goes the more golf fans will be lost because we do want to see all the best playing against each other, not in two separate competing leagues. It's where there is only one NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and more. I will agree with a lot of this as I am too exhausted from this One of the points that I may take here is the NFL was once two leagues (NFL/AFL), NBA was two leagues as well (NBA/ABA) (also I think before the NBA was formed it was actually two other leagues as well. At some point I believe that both of them will come together in some way - probably some type of merger like the NBA/ABA Anyways who knows and I really do not care - just point me to a golf course so I can play Dead Solid Bogey, Nick_D, sirchunksalot and 5 others 8 Quote Driver 1: Stealth 12 degree - Ventus Red 5-S Driver 2: 300 Mini Hzrdus Smoke Yellow 60G Stiff (tipped to 44.5inch) 3 Wood 2: Sim2 Max Fujikura Pro 65-S (higher ball flight) 5 Wood: Stealth Ventus Black 6-S 9 Wood: Stealth Ventus Red 5-R Irons: King Tour 2023 - Fujikura Pro 95 Stiff - 6-9 - Fitted Wedges: SM9 - 45-10F, 48-10F, 54-12-D, 58-12D (Testing Callaway Jaws 58-12-W) Putter: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S - Fitted Balls - X1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preeway Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 LIV accomplished exactly what it set out to do. Tear apart the status quo and see what rises from the ashes. Personally, I’m very excited about the future of the PGAT with all the new faces. It will take a year or two to see who the next stars are going to be but I’m ready to let the old established names go and embrace the 20 somethings of today. William P, Rob Person, Josh Parker and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Aerojet LS, Ventus Blue Shaft - 6S 4 Wood: Rogue ST Max 16.5, Tensei White Shaft - 7S Utility Iron: Fli Hi 3-iron, HAZARDOUS Smoke Black Shaft - S Irons: JPX 921 Tour 4-P, Project X Shafts - Stiff 125g Wedges: 52º, 56º, 60º Putter: Ai-One 7 T CH, 34" Preferred Ball: Z-Star Diamond Pushcart: Nitron Rangefinder: Tour V5 Shift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyjudge Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 53 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: Tony, Tony, Tony! Your editorial about the TOUR/LIV split is too pessimistic. The competition is still tight. We just have not yet developed an emotional bond to a lot of the new players. There is more room for guys from Latam, S Africa, and maybe even Asia, tho Asia golf is audience is captured by the swarm of ladies. There are growing pains. In a few years, I think the 2 mens' leagues will be more popular than ever, plus the DP Euro guys. In the USA/western hemisphere, LIV for the beer drinkers in person, TOUR for TV viewing (at least for me), when it is dark outside. Imagine, 20 years ago, did you think TOUR would have 5 or 6 events south of the border, or that the Nike would have an Argentina Open? Maybe you can't see Rahm vs Scheffler anymore. But out of this years crop of new successful guys on Tour, the fans will find a few favs to follow. And success is fickle. Look at Justin Thomas vs Jordan Speith. Wha happen? The brighest stars are not bright for now. I actually think that Tony is spot-on with his observations/opinions! sirchunksalot, StrokerAce, Rob Person and 5 others 8 Quote DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot 4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft 7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100 Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote) Spoiler driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrokerAce Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 okay, I don't know what the OP is referencing so I'll preface my remarks with that... If he's talking about Tony Covey I'd give it a good listen; Tony has been around the game a long time and comes from a position of knowledge. I think professional golf was due for a "shakeup" of some sort and Phil kinda tried to get it started. Unfortunately it's gone a bit overboard but I think all parties realized late last year that stars in 2 separate leagues is not sustainable. Happy to see cooler and wiser heads prevail after the dust settled and hopefully this merger becomes a reality. Take your favorite sport you watch, come up with the top 10 players and imagine if half of them went to another league. Would it still be the same? Not at all... neither league would be good. And that's where we're at now. LIV is fine, PGAT is fine -- but neither are "good" and must watch. I've tried to watch both in the last few weeks and after about 20 minutes I'm changing the channel. I just get bored and I don't remember it being like that. When I'd rather watch "To Catch a Smuggler, Madrid" or "Rick Steves' European Alps" the tours (both of them) have a serious problem because I cannot be the only one. funkyjudge, Dead Solid Bogey, berkeleybob and 3 others 6 Quote Driver- Cobra Aerojet LS Woods- Cobra LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*, F9 24* Irons- XXIO X (6-A) Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58) Putter- Bettinardi BB56 Ball- Maxfli Tour X Buggy- Motocaddy M7 GPS Remote Electric Caddy Bag- Motocaddy Dry-Series Proudly testing for 2024: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 15 minutes ago, fredsharky said: I will agree with a lot of this as I am too exhausted from this One of the points that I may take here is the NFL was once two leagues (NFL/AFL), NBA was two leagues as well (NBA/ABA) (also I think before the NBA was formed it was actually two other leagues as well. At some point I believe that both of them will come together in some way - probably some type of merger like the NBA/ABA Anyways who knows and I really do not care - just point me to a golf course so I can play There is a difference between pro golf and football baseball basketball. The NFL, MLB, NBA, are U.S. leagues. Teams are created by an owner, they live and play in US cities. Golf is not. It creates world caliber players in any country in the world. They are individuals, not products of a team owner and a city. There were 2 major leagues, the TOUR and the Euro, now called DP. The Euro tour obviously existed because golf is born there. So now there are 3 instead of 2 tours. A kid in India, or Mexico, or Guam, can decide to try to make it now on any of 3, not 2, leagues, all of which do reach around the world. Give it a few years, more cream will rise to the top of each tour. Merger? That is up to the DP and TOUR, if they are willing to create a tournament such as the first World Series or NFL AFL Championship. To turn their back on the players in LIV is short sighted. The NFL ignored or tried to ignore the AFL for years and now the Super Bowl is the biggest single game event on the planet. Imagine a tournament in October featuring the 10 top golfers from each of the 3 tours. But, no, TOUR says, my pride is hurt. William P, funkyjudge, sirchunksalot and 1 other 4 Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 28 minutes ago, StrokerAce said: okay, I don't know what the OP is referencing so I'll preface my remarks with that... If he's talking about Tony Covey I'd give it a good listen; Tony has been around the game a long time and comes from a position of knowledge. Probably the opening in the MGS newletter from today. Here it is if you don't subscribe: Professional Golf is Screwed (and deserves to be) In my estimation, there's zero change that LIV and the PGA Tour can co-exist and both succeed. The audience isn't there. I watch a lot of soccer where the best players in the world are spread across 5 or 6 leagues. And while it's true that nobody watches Saudi soccer (including the Saudi's themselves), the global fanbase is broad enough such that there are enough eyeballs for everyone. Professional golf is different. The audience pales in comparison, and not for anything, for those who care (or used to) your choice is rapidly become one between a league that exists only to make Saudi Arabia palatable for investment and tourism and another that is rapidly transforming into something that exists only to enrich the players that stuck around. In either case, the fan experience is Golf, but shittier We aren't part of the conversation, and because of it, apathy towards the professional game is on the rise. With distribution of talent further diluting the game by the week, it won't be long before neither league is worth watching. Maybe we're already there. -TC Preeway, berkeleybob, sirchunksalot and 3 others 6 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandyland Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Geoff Shackleford also had some interesting thoughts -- https://linksmagazine.com/geoff-shackelford-we-dont-need-professional-golfers/ funkyjudge and Dead Solid Bogey 2 Quote STZ 230 9.5* PinHawk SLF 16* STZ 230 Hybrid 21.25* MALTBY TS1-IM 5-GW Equalizer II 54* Glide 4.0 (S) 58* L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 Maxfli Tour X Official Review -- https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63068-testers-announced-maxfli-tour-x-golf-balls-with-max-align-technology/?do=findComment&comment=1021832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrokerAce Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 18 minutes ago, cnosil said: Probably the opening in the MGS newsletter from today. Here it is if you don't subscribe: Professional Golf is Screwed (and deserves to be) In my estimation, there's zero change that LIV and the PGA Tour can co-exist and both succeed. The audience isn't there. I watch a lot of soccer where the best players in the world are spread across 5 or 6 leagues. And while it's true that nobody watches Saudi soccer (including the Saudi's themselves), the global fanbase is broad enough such that there are enough eyeballs for everyone. Professional golf is different. The audience pales in comparison, and not for anything, for those who care (or used to) your choice is rapidly become one between a league that exists only to make Saudi Arabia palatable for investment and tourism and another that is rapidly transforming into something that exists only to enrich the players that stuck around. In either case, the fan experience is Golf, but shittier We aren't part of the conversation, and because of it, apathy towards the professional game is on the rise. With distribution of talent further diluting the game by the week, it won't be long before neither league is worth watching. Maybe we're already there. -TC Thanks.... I find it hard to disagree with anything he says here. Especially the fact that maybe we're already there. Let's face it, golf is kinda boring to watch... unless there's some sort of drama involved. That's why the Ryder Cup is so amazing. That's why Tiger in his prime was awesome. Protagonist / Antagonist ... we don't have that and watching people 2 putt from 20 feet over and over is mind numbing. Dead Solid Bogey, GolfSpy_APH and cnosil 3 Quote Driver- Cobra Aerojet LS Woods- Cobra LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*, F9 24* Irons- XXIO X (6-A) Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58) Putter- Bettinardi BB56 Ball- Maxfli Tour X Buggy- Motocaddy M7 GPS Remote Electric Caddy Bag- Motocaddy Dry-Series Proudly testing for 2024: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrokerAce Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 52 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: There is a difference between pro golf and football baseball basketball. The NFL, MLB, NBA, are U.S. leagues. Teams are created by an owner, they live and play in US cities. Golf is not. It creates world caliber players in any country in the world. They are individuals, not products of a team owner and a city. There were 2 major leagues, the TOUR and the Euro, now called DP. The Euro tour obviously existed because golf is born there. So now there are 3 instead of 2 tours. A kid in India, or Mexico, or Guam, can decide to try to make it now on any of 3, not 2, leagues, all of which do reach around the world. Give it a few years, more cream will rise to the top of each tour. Merger? That is up to the DP and TOUR, if they are willing to create a tournament such as the first World Series or NFL AFL Championship. To turn their back on the players in LIV is short sighted. The NFL ignored or tried to ignore the AFL for years and now the Super Bowl is the biggest single game event on the planet. Imagine a tournament in October featuring the 10 top golfers from each of the 3 tours. But, no, TOUR says, my pride is hurt. I'm shocked that Jay Monahan still has a job. Shapotomous, Preeway and Donn lost in San Diego 1 2 Quote Driver- Cobra Aerojet LS Woods- Cobra LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*, F9 24* Irons- XXIO X (6-A) Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58) Putter- Bettinardi BB56 Ball- Maxfli Tour X Buggy- Motocaddy M7 GPS Remote Electric Caddy Bag- Motocaddy Dry-Series Proudly testing for 2024: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 25 minutes ago, vandyland said: Geoff Shackleford also had some interesting thoughts -- https://linksmagazine.com/geoff-shackelford-we-dont-need-professional-golfers/ thanks for posting the link. insert smiley doodle thing here. Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 59 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: There is a difference between pro golf and football baseball basketball. The NFL, MLB, NBA, are U.S. leagues. Teams are created by an owner, they live and play in US cities. Golf is not. It creates world caliber players in any country in the world. They are individuals, not products of a team owner and a city. There were 2 major leagues, the TOUR and the Euro, now called DP. The Euro tour obviously existed because golf is born there. So now there are 3 instead of 2 tours. A kid in India, or Mexico, or Guam, can decide to try to make it now on any of 3, not 2, leagues, all of which do reach around the world. Give it a few years, more cream will rise to the top of each tour. Merger? That is up to the DP and TOUR, if they are willing to create a tournament such as the first World Series or NFL AFL Championship. To turn their back on the players in LIV is short sighted. The NFL ignored or tried to ignore the AFL for years and now the Super Bowl is the biggest single game event on the planet. Imagine a tournament in October featuring the 10 top golfers from each of the 3 tours. But, no, TOUR says, my pride is hurt. While the PGA Tour has events outside the US - it is effectively a US sport or league. NHL, MLB, NBA all have other DP World Tour equivalent leagues around the world. It is a lot more like having two NHL leagues competing against eachother than you may think. Bottom line is it would kinds be great if it got a heck of a lot worse so they wer forced to entirely rebuild. The patch work jobs that are in place now are struggling to hold an audience. PGA Tour viewership is down - LIV is claiming 2 million on Cafe TV (whatever that is) and still regularly is watched by frewer ppl than golf streamers like good good. Pro golf is in a bad spot - I think he is right that it deserves to be because the fans haven't been considered and really why should we care about them playing for 1 million or 10 million? That's just a number that doesn't effect us. It's legacy and awards that gets engaged and for the last 3 years it's all been talk about money. The rich getting richer and constant change that leads to confusion and less meaning or impact. Even LIV has a bunch of commercials... Let's not get started in commercials for the PGA Tour. Sorry for the rant, but all of this since LIV started and the chaos that is still going in has ruined a game I used to love watching and now cant be bothered. Preeway, StrokerAce, CFreddie and 1 other 2 2 Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said: While the PGA Tour has events outside the US - it is effectively a US sport or league. NHL, MLB, NBA all have other DP World Tour equivalent leagues around the world. It is a lot more like having two NHL leagues competing against eachother than you may think. Bottom line is it would kinds be great if it got a heck of a lot worse so they wer forced to entirely rebuild. The patch work jobs that are in place now are struggling to hold an audience. PGA Tour viewership is down - LIV is claiming 2 million on Cafe TV (whatever that is) and still regularly is watched by frewer ppl than golf streamers like good good. Pro golf is in a bad spot - I think he is right that it deserves to be because the fans haven't been considered and really why should we care about them playing for 1 million or 10 million? That's just a number that doesn't effect us. It's legacy and awards that gets engaged and for the last 3 years it's all been talk about money. The rich getting richer and constant change that leads to confusion and less meaning or impact. Even LIV has a bunch of commercials... Let's not get started in commercials for the PGA Tour. Sorry for the rant, but all of this since LIV started and the chaos that is still going in has ruined a game I used to love watching and now cant be bothered. Not a rant at all. You didn't swear or call anybody a luddite. Yes, pro golf, the PGA TOUR and DP, is having to examine how it wants to proceed. TV in USA is not keeping all its' viewers glued. That ain't a bad thing. Maybe it is resulting in more time spent on the course or range. But if you are a teen, competing, it is a great time to aspire. And that is a great thing. Rob Person 1 Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Parker Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said: While the PGA Tour has events outside the US - it is effectively a US sport or league. NHL, MLB, NBA all have other DP World Tour equivalent leagues around the world. It is a lot more like having two NHL leagues competing against eachother than you may think. Bottom line is it would kinds be great if it got a heck of a lot worse so they wer forced to entirely rebuild. The patch work jobs that are in place now are struggling to hold an audience. PGA Tour viewership is down - LIV is claiming 2 million on Cafe TV (whatever that is) and still regularly is watched by frewer ppl than golf streamers like good good. Pro golf is in a bad spot - I think he is right that it deserves to be because the fans haven't been considered and really why should we care about them playing for 1 million or 10 million? That's just a number that doesn't effect us. It's legacy and awards that gets engaged and for the last 3 years it's all been talk about money. The rich getting richer and constant change that leads to confusion and less meaning or impact. Even LIV has a bunch of commercials... Let's not get started in commercials for the PGA Tour. Sorry for the rant, but all of this since LIV started and the chaos that is still going in has ruined a game I used to love watching and now cant be bothered. That's where I am at as well. I don't spend time watching anymore and instead head to the course to play or practice. William P, Preeway, Dead Solid Bogey and 1 other 4 Quote Paradym TD Driver w/ Ventus Blue 6S 3W MKII ZX 5's (4-6) w/ KBS Tour V MKII ZX 7's (7-PW) w/ KBS Tour V Vokey Wedges 50* 54* 58* DF2.1 Putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFreddie Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, Josh Parker said: That's where I am at as well. I don't spend time watching anymore and instead head to the course to play or practice. I'm watching most weeks (at least to have on as background noise / entertainment), but its pretty obvious the product for both is hot garbage at the moment. Everyone looks bad and nobody wins - its crazy to see that outside investment groups and / or the PIF see any positives in the product today. Rob Person and Dead Solid Bogey 2 Quote Cobra 50th Anniversary Member Special Challenge/Testing Bag (Link Here) Driver: Paradym with Ventus TR Blue 60 Stiff Fairways: Aerojet Max 3W & 7W with Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX 70 Stiff Hybrid: King TEC 5H with KBS PGI 95 Stiff Irons: Forged TEC 5-GW with KBS Tour Lite Stiff Wedges: Jaws Raw Plasma 54 & 58 Putter: Phantom X 5.5 Ball: 2023 Maxfli Tour Other Reviews: Callaway Paradym Titleist White Box Testing (2023) Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkeleybob Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: There is a difference between pro golf and football baseball basketball. The NFL, MLB, NBA, are U.S. leagues. Teams are created by an owner, they live and play in US cities. Golf is not. It creates world caliber players in any country in the world. They are individuals, not products of a team owner and a city. There were 2 major leagues, the TOUR and the Euro, now called DP. The Euro tour obviously existed because golf is born there. So now there are 3 instead of 2 tours. A kid in India, or Mexico, or Guam, can decide to try to make it now on any of 3, not 2, leagues, all of which do reach around the world. Give it a few years, more cream will rise to the top of each tour. Merger? That is up to the DP and TOUR, if they are willing to create a tournament such as the first World Series or NFL AFL Championship. To turn their back on the players in LIV is short sighted. The NFL ignored or tried to ignore the AFL for years and now the Super Bowl is the biggest single game event on the planet. Imagine a tournament in October featuring the 10 top golfers from each of the 3 tours. But, no, TOUR says, my pride is hurt. I kinda get what you’re saying, but I liken pro golf to pro tennis. I love watching tennis. But the only time I’ll watch it is during Wimbledon, the French open, and when possible the US and Australian open. But I’m not going to follow the WTA because it doesn’t really interest me enough to watch or follow the entire pro tennis field. I don’t follow pro golf, and I can only imagine the letdown of the prospect of following three tours just watch my favorite pros who no longer compete on the same level. I’d just wait for the majors in order to see them. As for the kids in Mexico, Guam and India getting a shot at playing in the “major leagues”—I don’t know. I’ve never really thought of golf as being a kind of “Hoop Dreams” kind of sport. Sure, there are Tiger Woodses and Tony Finaus out there, but I’d have to ask, would either of them have risen to the status they have now if they had started their career with LIV golf? Rob Person 1 Quote WITB 2024 DRIVER AEROJET 10.5° | FAIRWAY ROGUE ST MAX 3/15° HYBRID G410 21° | UTILITY 699 V2 U 5/23° IRONS 699 V2 6-PW WEDGES CBX 2 50°, 54°, 58° PUTTER KING GRANDSPORT 35 BALL MODEL | PRO WHITE/BLUE ICE BAG 3.5 LS | PUSHCART RV1S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest-0 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 15 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said: While the PGA Tour has events outside the US - it is effectively a US sport or league. NHL, MLB, NBA all have other DP World Tour equivalent leagues around the world. It is a lot more like having two NHL leagues competing against eachother than you may think. Bottom line is it would kinds be great if it got a heck of a lot worse so they wer forced to entirely rebuild. The patch work jobs that are in place now are struggling to hold an audience. PGA Tour viewership is down - LIV is claiming 2 million on Cafe TV (whatever that is) and still regularly is watched by frewer ppl than golf streamers like good good. Pro golf is in a bad spot - I think he is right that it deserves to be because the fans haven't been considered and really why should we care about them playing for 1 million or 10 million? That's just a number that doesn't effect us. It's legacy and awards that gets engaged and for the last 3 years it's all been talk about money. The rich getting richer and constant change that leads to confusion and less meaning or impact. Even LIV has a bunch of commercials... Let's not get started in commercials for the PGA Tour. Sorry for the rant, but all of this since LIV started and the chaos that is still going in has ruined a game I used to love watching and now cant be bothered. Only problem there is when rich entities get it in their heads not to bend they wont!!! They will sail that ship right into Davey Jones locker before they bend much less break!! Any Indy car aficionado can tell you what happened when Indy Car Racing split and became CART and the IRL and both crashed and burned!! IRL or whatever it is now is still kind of there because it's owned by Tony George who also owns Indianapolis but its a mere flake of what it used to be as is believe it or not Pro Bass fishing!! Split into three leagues maybe four??? And gets about zero viewership when back in the 90s it was popular weekend TV . I would love to see an example of success after splitting but can't seem to find one sure would be alot more fun to watch the Memorial with the most talented pool of players on earth!!! Rob Person 1 Quote WITB Driver is PING G430 MAX 10K 9° W/VENTUS BLACK 44.5" TOUR VELVET GRIP 3 WOOD TAYLORMADE M2 15° W/ADDI BB TOUR VELVET GRIP IRONS PING G410 4 AND 5 IRON W/X100 IRONS 6-9 PING I200 W/X100 WEDGES TITLEIST VOKEY SM8 48° CHROME VOKEY 52° 56° AND 60 ALL IN CHROME FINISH WITH DYNAMIC GOLD AND MCC+4 GRIPS SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR RAT GSS 350G MATADOR GRIP SUN MOUNTAIN C-130 CART BAG NIKON LASER TITLEIST PRO V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said: When the best players in the world aren't competing against eachother everyone suffers. It's why the majors are basically all that matters. I won't get into my LIV thoughts... They are well documented. I will say due to LIV and the split I have zero interest I watching anything but the majors. I still take part in the pick em but have yet to watch a second of the broadcast this season. The separation kills golf and there is clearly not going to be any headway anytime soon so everything is continually in flux and has little meaning. Plenty of golf fans are exhausted from it all and the longer this goes the more golf fans will be lost because we do want to see all the best playing against each other, not in two separate competing leagues. It's where there is only one NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and more. CBS had a spike in viewership last year so I don’t think the split is hurting business and the PGA tour bought in a lot of money. I don’t think many of the best players in the world are on the LIV tour except for a few. Most have have little to no success on the PGA tour. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest-0 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: CBS had a spike in viewership last year so I don’t think the split is hurting business and the PGA tour bought in a lot of money. I don’t think many of the best players in the world are on the LIV tour except for a few. Most have have little to no success on A few?? There are some really good sticks over there and my biggest complaint is not them being gone as I believe a man's decision to support his family is a personal thing and not for me to judge but the complaining and bashing of LIV by the announcers and Golf Digest , some players blah blah blah!!!! Who in the hell do they think they are??? Donn lost in San Diego 1 Quote WITB Driver is PING G430 MAX 10K 9° W/VENTUS BLACK 44.5" TOUR VELVET GRIP 3 WOOD TAYLORMADE M2 15° W/ADDI BB TOUR VELVET GRIP IRONS PING G410 4 AND 5 IRON W/X100 IRONS 6-9 PING I200 W/X100 WEDGES TITLEIST VOKEY SM8 48° CHROME VOKEY 52° 56° AND 60 ALL IN CHROME FINISH WITH DYNAMIC GOLD AND MCC+4 GRIPS SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR RAT GSS 350G MATADOR GRIP SUN MOUNTAIN C-130 CART BAG NIKON LASER TITLEIST PRO V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 11 minutes ago, Marlin Dave said: A few?? There are some really good sticks over there and my biggest complaint is not them being gone as I believe a man's decision to support his family is a personal thing and not for me to judge but the complaining and bashing of LIV by the announcers and Golf Digest , some players blah blah blah!!!! Who in the hell do they think they are??? The number of golfers on LIV that would be competitive week in and week out is very small. Doesn’t matter how good of a stick they are they didn’t perform well on the big stage. Just go to lava stats for each one and see, Gooch 1 win in 123 starts 80/123 cuts made that’s about 65% 11 top 10s. not very impressive for someone who is currently running his mouth. ParFore74x 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppman Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Personally, I don't miss any of the Liv players. I haven't watched liv and I won't. I enjoy the current PGA tour and new faces along with DP, Champions and LPGA even college golf. If Liv were to completely take over, I would stop watching PGA. Good riddance to those money grubbers with no morals, don't miss them. And for those saying PGA tour has lack of star power, remember Koepka and the rest were nobody's before winning on PGA tour. Koepka played on Asian tour and wasn't even one of the best players on his college team. Anyone can become a star if they start winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest-0 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 56 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: The number of golfers on LIV that would be competitive week in and week out is very small. Doesn’t matter how good of a stick they are they didn’t perform well on the big stage. Just go to lava stats for each one and see, Gooch 1 win in 123 starts 80/123 cuts made that’s about 65% 11 top 10s. not very impressive for someone who is currently running his mouth. Whole bunch of those guys on the PGA tour as well Quote WITB Driver is PING G430 MAX 10K 9° W/VENTUS BLACK 44.5" TOUR VELVET GRIP 3 WOOD TAYLORMADE M2 15° W/ADDI BB TOUR VELVET GRIP IRONS PING G410 4 AND 5 IRON W/X100 IRONS 6-9 PING I200 W/X100 WEDGES TITLEIST VOKEY SM8 48° CHROME VOKEY 52° 56° AND 60 ALL IN CHROME FINISH WITH DYNAMIC GOLD AND MCC+4 GRIPS SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR RAT GSS 350G MATADOR GRIP SUN MOUNTAIN C-130 CART BAG NIKON LASER TITLEIST PRO V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 3 hours ago, Marlin Dave said: Whole bunch of those guys on the PGA tour as well Didn’t say there weren’t but to claim that LIV has some of the best players in the world is a stretch when only at most a handful are actually competitive on a weekly basis on the pga tour is a pretty big stretch. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest-0 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Didn’t say there weren’t but to claim that LIV has some of the best players in the world is a stretch when only at most a handful are actually competitive on a weekly basis on the pga tour is a pretty big stretch. Yeah it just sucks all the way around but I can't fault a guy for going to guaranteed money I would've done the same but just for fun I Google 32 guys I saw on the list and together there were 381 wins on the PGA tour and a ton of Euro wins I didn't want to count and a bunch of majors so it definitely is diluting the show and that's a bummer as this weekend would have been a really stacked field!!! Quote WITB Driver is PING G430 MAX 10K 9° W/VENTUS BLACK 44.5" TOUR VELVET GRIP 3 WOOD TAYLORMADE M2 15° W/ADDI BB TOUR VELVET GRIP IRONS PING G410 4 AND 5 IRON W/X100 IRONS 6-9 PING I200 W/X100 WEDGES TITLEIST VOKEY SM8 48° CHROME VOKEY 52° 56° AND 60 ALL IN CHROME FINISH WITH DYNAMIC GOLD AND MCC+4 GRIPS SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR RAT GSS 350G MATADOR GRIP SUN MOUNTAIN C-130 CART BAG NIKON LASER TITLEIST PRO V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest-0 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Just now, Marlin Dave said: Yeah it just sucks all the way around but I can't fault a guy for going to guaranteed money I would've done the same but just for fun I Google 32 guys I saw on the list and together there were 381 wins on the PGA tour and a ton of Euro wins I didn't want to count and a bunch of majors so it definitely is diluting the show and that's a bummer as this weekend would have been a really stacked field!!! And I counted zero of their wins at LIV Quote WITB Driver is PING G430 MAX 10K 9° W/VENTUS BLACK 44.5" TOUR VELVET GRIP 3 WOOD TAYLORMADE M2 15° W/ADDI BB TOUR VELVET GRIP IRONS PING G410 4 AND 5 IRON W/X100 IRONS 6-9 PING I200 W/X100 WEDGES TITLEIST VOKEY SM8 48° CHROME VOKEY 52° 56° AND 60 ALL IN CHROME FINISH WITH DYNAMIC GOLD AND MCC+4 GRIPS SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR RAT GSS 350G MATADOR GRIP SUN MOUNTAIN C-130 CART BAG NIKON LASER TITLEIST PRO V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 I want to thank all commenters. My view is based on expanding the pro opportunities. In 2018 and 2019 I was a volunteer at the LPGA event in San Diego, the Kia Classic, and I was amazed, I think there were 25 countries in the field both years. More recently, I was a couch potato with 3 surgeries, and watched too much TV, including some college golf. I was stunned. The better NCAA teams need a lot of translators. There are players from around the world, especially a lot of Latam. Golf is a way up and out of poor neighborhoods and violence in cities. So, LIV took 20 or 30 TOUR players. That means 20 or 30 more new opportunities for NCAA and other foreign players to make a living in golf and become heroes back home even if they never win a TOUR event. Apparently, college golf here is so good that a lot of the best Europeans come here. I donate a lot of clubs to schools in lower income neighborhoods, and I urge everybody to do the same. First Tee is nice but has corporate money, there are probably schools near you with kids without resources. Michael.Sandoval33 and berkeleybob 2 Quote Drv: PXG 0211, Evnflo Riptide CB Senior, Callaway 454 TI (2004) 10 and an 11, regular flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr Tensei Blue CK 55 gram senior. TM Burner Superfast 3.0 M flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex. 4 iron: forged Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hollow body. 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex. Gap: 52/9 GFF Mizuno S5, Lob: 60/6 GFF Mizuno T7. Sand: Ancien Regime 56/12 Hogan Sure Out, Apex shaft. Heavy sole. Chipper: Ancien Regime Don Martin "Up n In" bronze or copper. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, 2 piece, multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: CBS had a spike in viewership last year so I don’t think the split is hurting business and the PGA tour bought in a lot of money. I don’t think many of the best players in the world are on the LIV tour except for a few. Most have have little to no success on the PGA tour. There are a lot of meh players - but it doesn't need to be many. Bryson, Rahm, Cam Smith, Brooks, Hatton (my personal favorite), DJ, Niemann and maybe a others are or would be considered top players. (Gooch is not in that list for be). Leishman and Louis were great to watch. The old crew are still good that would bring in attention and eyes regardless of how they perform. Anyway to each their own. I just feel that the longer this split goes on the worse it is for the fans and those that watch. Preeway 1 Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Solid Bogey Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 15 hours ago, Josh Parker said: That's where I am at as well. I don't spend time watching anymore and instead head to the course to play or practice. This right here is an understatement … Why watch a diluted and less than acceptable hybrid ( my feeling’s ) of the tours… Practice and play is the way to go. IF in a few years I am sedated in a nursing home, then I won’t mind if the tours or their newest manifestations are on some viewing visual device Josh Parker, William P and CFreddie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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