L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[MattWillGolf]

My comfort level with the DF3 is just getting better and better. I played 9 holes this morning. I had 14 putts total for 9 holes. The breakdown was zero 3-putts, five 2-putts and four 1-putts. The feel is the best with any putter I’ve ever owned. 

[GolfSpy MPR]

I have a league round tonight, which I'm looking forward to. Did a data-gathering session with the DF3 this afternoon, which wasn't spectacular, so I decided to get in a bit more practice on the ExPutt. There is a mode in the ExPutt simulator called "Challenge." It puts you on a green, typically somewhere in the 20–40' range. The greens have slope and break; obviously, gauging this is a bit like a video game. You're trying to adjust the aim left or right enough to account for the break, and then add or take away speed based on whether it's telling you that the putt is uphill or downhill.

The goal is to get the putt within 3' of the hole. If you do it on your first attempt, you get 10 points; second attempt, 5; and third attempt, 2. If you don't get it in the gimme range after three attempts, you get no points. You get a 3 point bonus if you make the putt.

As you can see, it took me a few holes to get the feel, but from the sixth hole on, I was putting really well. Making the very last putt on the first attempt was a nice exclamation point on the practice session.

[GolfSpy MPR]

First night of league, and things are getting interesting.

I will say that after two holes tonight, I was concerned. On the first hole, after a bit of misadventure, I hit a nice little LW from 90 yards to 7'. And then I proceeded to leave the putt about a foot short.

On the next hole, I hit a GW to the center of the green, leaving myself a nice 15' look at birdie. Missed low, and it rolled about two feet past. Then I missed the comebacker, giving me my first 3-putt since acquiring the DF3.

From that point on, though, I had the best stretch of putting I've had in this still-young season.

For the first time in a tracked round, I made some putts outside 3', including a really lovely one from just inside 20'.

Helped by a nice chip-in birdie on the sixth hole, I ended up with 13 putts for nine holes tonight.

In the 20 rounds before I acquired the DF3, Arccos said I putted roughly on the level of a 13-index. In the three 9-hole rounds I've had with the DF3, that number has dropped to roughly a 5.5.

[Cfhandyman]

Week 5 The Bottom line (Executive) summary -  May 24/2024

An exciting week highlighted by injuries, vacation and lots of testing.  It is becoming increasingly clear, that testers are becoming much more comfortable with the L.A.B. DF3 and there’s even some talk that it may go in the back.  Impressive stuff indeed.

Tester of the week  – Chris Freitag

Best post(s)

@jbern

 I’ve posted this on a couple of other locations, but not on this DF3 thread. I have a work trip in Salt Lake City for a few days. Also, I injured my rib and it’s been very painful for about 12 days (story of how I injured it below). All that being said, I’m going to take it easy from exercise and golf for about a week. I’ll still be interacting with the thread and doing Exputt sessions with Dory, but I won’t log any outdoor rounds until this rib situation feels better. 

Rib injury story time: I took the kids fishing and we caught 5-6 fish in the first 20-30 minutes. One of the fishing lines broke so I set it off to the side because I was putting bait on a different pole. The kids were clowning around and ended up knocking the fishing pole off the boat. Since we’ve already lost a couple of poles from the kids accidentally dropping them in the water, I dove very hastily after this one and smashed my upper ribs on the side of the boat. I did catch the pole, but my ribs have hurt ever since!

 @Cfhandyman

Without a doubt, after 4 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3 and indoor testing on a putting green, my confidence from 20 feet and in has increased significantly.  Five feet and within, is almost automatic (80%ish), I am very comfortable with a ten footer (50/50 ish) as well as 20 footer (20% ish).  Even though my gamer Evnroll, statistically is almost identical to the L.A.B., I feel the added benefit of focusing on my putting and doing putting drills has helped immensely. Key thing, take my time, get read and break correct, setup properly, light grip and then let the putter do its thing with an almost pendulum like stroke.  Below are my 4 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3 versus the previous 4 rounds with the Evnroll Tourstroke compared to a 0 handicap.  Overall, 1 putts have increased and birdies have increased, while 3 putts have remained low, on average about 1 per round.  The caveat is that its only 4 rounds.  I'll be more convinced after about 20 rounds or so.  As far as my playing partners, they all want to try it and have been very impressed with it.  But, especially my wife who "used" my putter on about half the holes yesterday.  So, at the end of this test, I may very well be buying her a new L.A.B. putter for her bag, in pink of course.  

@GolfSpy SAM 

Forgot to update here!  Had another round on Friday with the Green Lantern, and managed 26(!) putts, no 3-putts, 10 1-putts. This thing just continues to flat-out perform, and I'm really finding the long-arrow-alignment aid to be incredibly effective at guaranteeing I'm lined up correctly behind the ball - any "askew-ness" (I made that word up and am sticking with it) is really easy to see with the extended arrow through the back of the putter.

 Also, I'll touch briefly here on forgiveness - the 10-footer I made for par, I hit plainly out of the toe - not even a "little toe-y", but, like, barely on the face of the putter, and it held the line perfectly and entered center-cut.  Yes, it was a little ting-y in sound, but if that's the worst of a 10-footer being struck out of the toe, I think I can handle it 

Best pictures

Steve, @Steve F working hard on testing

   

Michael, @GolfSpy MPR Tools of the trade 

 

Chris, @CFreddie Really hard at “work” missing Chewie.  In Antigua no less.  Some of us are very envious. 

@GolfSpy SAM 

Best lines -The gold, silver and bronze medal all go to @ole gray, what a week.

@ole gray  A few days ago I was at a PGA Super Store and rolled one for quite some time.  After that little excursion I was hooked like a bass in a pro tournament and I knew it was on like donkey kong! (Bronze)

@ole gray Yea I went with a simple three dot alignment aid as I like the simplicity of it.  Too much going on the top and I'd be confused like old Elmer Jenkins trying to pick out a new coon pup for his Friday night hunts. (Silver)

@ole gray You better quit wrestling those big cat fish hoss.  They'll yank ya arse off the boat every time. (Gold)

@GolfSpy SAM Awesome stuff!  I will tell you that I was unaware that the X clip was on repeat, and watched it 17 times, marveling EACH time that your stroke never deviated once.  Lol - I'm not even embarrassed, because it's making me laugh so hard.

See you next week, for Week 6 Bottom Line summary

Links to previous weeks summary

Week 4

 

Week 3

Week 2

Week 1

 

 

 

[GolfSpy MPR]

Halfway through indoor data collection!

Made a couple of small tweaks to the scoring system, raising the value of Blast and ExPutt a little higher than HackMotion and being a little more forgiving for distance control on the longest putts in ExPutt.

[Cfhandyman]

9 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Halfway through indoor data collection!

Made a couple of small tweaks to the scoring system, raising the value of Blast and ExPutt a little higher than HackMotion and being a little more forgiving for distance control on the longest putts in ExPutt.

Loving it that you’re testing the putters on three different systems. Will be most interested to know which system correlates best or helps you the most with on course putting.  Well done. 

[Rearviewmirror]

How have the testers gotten on with lag putting? It's something I still struggle with using my Mezz, and will often leave the ball 7-8ft short on a 40ft putt.

[Cfhandyman]

12 hours ago, Rearviewmirror said:

How have the testers gotten on with lag putting? It's something I still struggle with using my Mezz, and will often leave the ball 7-8ft short on a 40ft putt.

It’s something you have to practice. Initially, I had the same experience leaving the ball 7-8 feet short on 40 foot putts. Then I started practicing 10, 20, 30 and 40 foot drills learning how far back I needed to take the club to achieve the desired mark.  As a result, it’s getting much better. 

[GolfSpy MPR]

Went back through my archives, and found this Arccos screenshot from last October, summarizing the prior year's putting (if you understand the chart, maybe even two years of rounds):

Just finished my fourth 9-hole round with the DF3. I'm getting more and more comfortable with it, and the on-course results show it. Today's round—at least in terms of putting—was so solid. Arccos had me as losing 0.0 strokes compared to scratch, and for a guy hovering around a 10 handicap, I'll definitely take that. And that doesn't even take into account that I used the DF3 from the fringe, rolling in a putt from about 15 feet. In fact, I putted from the fringe on another this round, something I don't typically do. But my feel for distance has been so spot on with the DF3 that I figured it would be stupid to use my SW on those shots.

The 22' putt on the final hole lipped out.

Here is Arccos's summary of the 36 holes I've played with the L.A.B. so far:

Is it just the honeymoon phase with Shazam?

[CFreddie]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Went back through my archives, and found this Arccos screenshot from last October, summarizing the prior year's putting (if you understand the chart, maybe even two years of rounds):

Just finished my fourth 9-hole round with the DF3. I'm getting more and more comfortable with it, and the on-course results show it. Today's round—at least in terms of putting—was so solid. Arccos had me as losing 0.0 strokes compared to scratch, and for a guy hovering around a 10 handicap, I'll definitely take that. And that doesn't even take into account that I used the DF3 from the fringe, rolling in a putt from about 15 feet. In fact, I putted from the fringe on another this round, something I don't typically do. But my feel for distance has been so spot on with the DF3 that I figured it would be stupid to use my SW on those shots.

The 22' putt on the final hole lipped out.

Here is Arccos's summary of the 36 holes I've played with the L.A.B. so far:

Is it just the honeymoon phase with Shazam?

Absolutely love this - while you are already a pretty good putter, its awesome to see the DF3 make you even better.  I'm certain once the honeymoon phase is over for all of us, we will settle into a pretty good improvement overall.  Thanks for sharing @GolfSpy MPR!

[curtdusoleil]

I wasn't a tester and I've been very happy with my SC Futura 7m (I gain the most strokes putting.) However, I have been very interested in trying out the LAB putters from everything I've heard.

As a lefty, it can sometimes be difficult to find ones in store to try out, but one of the PGA Superstores near me happened to have both a DF 2.1 and a Mezz 1. I liked them both, but I preferred the DF 2.1. It was used and was a really good price, so I went back the next day to get some regripping done and had decided I was going to get it...but it was already gone! For the hour it took for my grips to get done, I putting with both the Mezz and my own putter. While I liked the Mezz, I decided that my putting has been so good that it wouldn't be worth the money to switch now.

Cut to today, when I went back to the same store for more regripping. This time, they had a DF 3...and wow. I absolutely love how it feels. I'm guessing it was just a stock setup (35") but it seemed to perfectly fit my putting stroke. I love how it never feels like the head turns at all. While I love my putter, I can tell that I'm manipulating the club face to stay square. With the DF 3, it felt effortless.

I may have to take the plunge.

[CFreddie]

2 minutes ago, curtdusoleil said:

I wasn't a tester and I've been very happy with my SC Futura 7m (I gain the most strokes putting.) However, I have been very interested in trying out the LAB putters from everything I've heard.

As a lefty, it can sometimes be difficult to find ones in store to try out, but one of the PGA Superstores near me happened to have both a DF 2.1 and a Mezz 1. I liked them both, but I preferred the DF 2.1. It was used and was a really good price, so I went back the next day to get some regripping done and had decided I was going to get it...but it was already gone! For the hour it took for my grips to get done, I putting with both the Mezz and my own putter. While I liked the Mezz, I decided that my putting has been so good that it wouldn't be worth the money to switch now.

Cut to today, when I went back to the same store for more regripping. This time, they had a DF 3...and wow. I absolutely love how it feels. I'm guessing it was just a stock setup (35") but it seemed to perfectly fit my putting stroke. I love how it never feels like the head turns at all. While I love my putter, I can tell that I'm manipulating the club face to stay square. With the DF 3, it felt effortless.

I may have to take the plunge.

Great write up - the face manipulation is def something I’ve noticed when switching back and forth with my gamer. I agree with the term “effortless” - it’s something I’ve had to very much adjust to on the green with the DF3.  No more swing thoughts…just step up, apply a (light grip), take the club away, and let it do its own thing. 
 

Keep us updated on if you do indeed “take the plunge”!

[Bucky CC]

Lenny, cue the confession music.  I've had my eye on a LAB putter ever since last year's forum testing.  Tried out all their previous putters at PGA Superstore, went through the remote fitting (standard 35", 69°), and almost pulled the trigger countless times.

My interest perked up again this spring with the release of the DF3.  Right as I was considering a purchase for the 500th time I was selected for the Edel Array test (which is a great putter; check out our reviews).  My gamer narrowly beat out the Array in testing, but this dang thread kept the DF3 in the back of my mind.

Fast forward to last night when I had some time to kill waiting to pick up dinner.  Oh look, there's a Golf Galaxy right across the straight from my son's favorite restaurant (Chipotle is heaven for my 10 year old).  Somehow I came home with dinner and a new friend for my other two putters.

Left: Edel Array F-2, Middle: White Hot OG #7 (gamer?), Right: LAB DF3

One of my Array tests was hitting 8' putts on the Perfect Practice Mat.  This is a straight putt following the lines so it's not exactly the toughest putt in the world, but the pressure does ramp up as your consecutive makes climb.  The maximum number of 8 footers I made in a row with the Array was around 17 and with the Odyssey 31.

On my very first night with the DF3 I made 37 eight footers in a row.

[CFreddie]

1 minute ago, Bucky CC said:

Lenny, cue the confession music.  I've had my eye on a LAB putter ever since last year's forum testing.  Tried out all their previous putters at PGA Superstore, went through the remote fitting (standard 35", 69°), and almost pulled the trigger countless times.

My interest perked up again this spring with the release of the DF3.  Right as I was considering a purchase for the 500th time I was selected for the Edel Array test (which is a great putter; check out our reviews).  My gamer narrowly beat out the Array in testing, but this dang thread kept the DF3 in the back of my mind.

Fast forward to last night when I had some time to kill waiting to pick up dinner.  Oh look, there's a Golf Galaxy right across the straight from my son's favorite restaurant (Chipotle is heaven for my 10 year old).  Somehow I came home with dinner and a new friend for my other two putters.

Left: Edel Array F-2, Middle: White Hot OG #7 (gamer?), Right: LAB DF3

One of my Array tests was hitting 8' putts on the Perfect Practice Mat.  This is a straight putt following the lines so it's not exactly the toughest putt in the world, but the pressure does ramp up as your consecutive makes climb.  The maximum number of 8 footers I made in a row with the Array was around 17 and with the Odyssey 31.

On my very first night with the DF3 I made 37 eight footers in a row.

Woah indeed - good luck to your Edel and #7 - I have a feeling a change is coming soon enough

Btw, you are super lucky (or it unlucky) that you fit into the “stock” specs - makes that purchase even easier!

[Cfhandyman]

48 minutes ago, Bucky CC said:

Lenny, cue the confession music.  I've had my eye on a LAB putter ever since last year's forum testing.  Tried out all their previous putters at PGA Superstore, went through the remote fitting (standard 35", 69°), and almost pulled the trigger countless times.

My interest perked up again this spring with the release of the DF3.  Right as I was considering a purchase for the 500th time I was selected for the Edel Array test (which is a great putter; check out our reviews).  My gamer narrowly beat out the Array in testing, but this dang thread kept the DF3 in the back of my mind.

Fast forward to last night when I had some time to kill waiting to pick up dinner.  Oh look, there's a Golf Galaxy right across the straight from my son's favorite restaurant (Chipotle is heaven for my 10 year old).  Somehow I came home with dinner and a new friend for my other two putters.

Left: Edel Array F-2, Middle: White Hot OG #7 (gamer?), Right: LAB DF3

One of my Array tests was hitting 8' putts on the Perfect Practice Mat.  This is a straight putt following the lines so it's not exactly the toughest putt in the world, but the pressure does ramp up as your consecutive makes climb.  The maximum number of 8 footers I made in a row with the Array was around 17 and with the Odyssey 31.

On my very first night with the DF3 I made 37 eight footers in a row.

That’s a very nice collection of putters. One thing I’m finding is the exceptional face angle control of the L.A.B. DF3. 37 straight 8 footers in a row is impressive. Wait until you get it out onto the greens  

[ZJeb67]

52 minutes ago, Bucky CC said:

Lenny, cue the confession music.  I've had my eye on a LAB putter ever since last year's forum testing.  Tried out all their previous putters at PGA Superstore, went through the remote fitting (standard 35", 69°), and almost pulled the trigger countless times.

My interest perked up again this spring with the release of the DF3.  Right as I was considering a purchase for the 500th time I was selected for the Edel Array test (which is a great putter; check out our reviews).  My gamer narrowly beat out the Array in testing, but this dang thread kept the DF3 in the back of my mind.

Fast forward to last night when I had some time to kill waiting to pick up dinner.  Oh look, there's a Golf Galaxy right across the straight from my son's favorite restaurant (Chipotle is heaven for my 10 year old).  Somehow I came home with dinner and a new friend for my other two putters.

Left: Edel Array F-2, Middle: White Hot OG #7 (gamer?), Right: LAB DF3

One of my Array tests was hitting 8' putts on the Perfect Practice Mat.  This is a straight putt following the lines so it's not exactly the toughest putt in the world, but the pressure does ramp up as your consecutive makes climb.  The maximum number of 8 footers I made in a row with the Array was around 17 and with the Odyssey 31.

On my very first night with the DF3 I made 37 eight footers in a row.

Let's go!

Let's go!

[Bucky CC]

48 minutes ago, CFreddie said:

Woah indeed - good luck to your Edel and #7 - I have a feeling a change is coming soon enough

Btw, you are super lucky (or it unlucky) that you fit into the “stock” specs - makes that purchase even easier!

I have mixed feeling about being "stock".  On one hand it made it very easy to be able to purchase in store for their non-customized price.  On the other hand it made it way too easy to purchase in store when I really don't NEED a new putter.

Just now, Cfhandyman said:

That’s a very nice collection of putters. One thing I’m finding is the exceptional face angle control of the L.A.B. DF3. 37 straight 8 footers in a row is impressive. Wait until you get it out onto the greens  

I'm excited to get out for real testing.  I have rounds scheduled for Wednesday and Thursday this week so thankfully I won't have to wait long.  Just need to temper my expectations and not get upset when I don't make every single putt inside of 50 feet the first few times out.

[Cfhandyman]

Part Two - Quintic ball roll system

The importance of Face Angle, the start direction of a putt and make ability of putts  – Quintic  

 

In Part 1 of the Quintic ball roll system, the following 5 most important categories were: 

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt)

2.      Clubhead twist

3.      Ball speed and pace control

4.      Launch angle

5.      Spin and roll

Why is Face angle at impact so important: At the point of impact your putter face will either be open, closed or square to the target.  The data suggests that this accounts for 83-92% of the start direction of the ball.  With a loft of 2 degrees at impact, the face angle accounts for approximately 90 – 92% of the start direction of the golf ball assuming a center strike.  Path accounts for the remainder. The effective loft of the L.A.B. DF3 is 3 degrees.

You want the putter face angle to be as close to square at impact

Putting this into practical terms, if your face angle is 2 degrees or more open or closed at impact, you will always miss that 5 foot putt every time.  

For an 8 foot, putt it’s 1 degree.  For a 15 foot putt it shrinks to 0.5 degrees.  In the following example, if the face angle is closed by 1.42 degrees at impact, you will be able to make up to a 7 foot putt

The next example is with the face angle at a tour level (elite) 0.37 degrees open at impact.  You will easily make that 15 foot putt and probably 20 feet

 

What factors impact face angle:  Grip pressure, swing mechanics, in particular alignment, path, overactive hands.  For example. a stronger grip or more pressure tend to close the clubface, whereas weaker grip and less pressure tend to open the clubface

So what does the data tell us:  On the PGA tour, the tour average make percentage for 5 feet is now 82%, but drops by over half to 41% at 10 feet.  For 15-20 footers, the make percentage is only 19%.  (2024 PGA tour data)

Pro tip: Therefore, for putts outside of ten feet, one should predominantly concentrate on getting the right speed.  Inside ten feet, concentrate on face angle control for a quick way to lower your putts on course.  These are the ones that have the highest percentage of going in regardless of outside variables. 

Aids to help: String line, putting mirror,

References: Quintic Putting Analysis Software ( https://www.quinticballroll.com ) , Science and Motion, MGS, TXG, WRX, 

[Jim Shaw]

3 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

Part Two - Quintic ball roll system

The importance of Face Angle, the start direction of a putt and make ability of putts  – Quintic  

 

In Part 1 of the Quintic ball roll system, the following 5 most important categories were: 

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt)

2.      Clubhead twist

3.      Ball speed and pace control

4.      Launch angle

5.      Spin and roll

Why is Face angle at impact so important: At the point of impact your putter face will either be open, closed or square to the target.  The data suggests that this accounts for 83-92% of the start direction of the ball.  With a loft of 2 degrees at impact, the face angle accounts for approximately 90 – 92% of the start direction of the golf ball assuming a center strike.  Path accounts for the remainder. The effective loft of the L.A.B. DF3 is 3 degrees.

You want the putter face angle to be as close to square at impact

Putting this into practical terms, if your face angle is 2 degrees or more open or closed at impact, you will always miss that 5 foot putt every time.  

 

For an 8 foot, putt it’s 1 degree.  For a 15 foot putt it shrinks to 0.5 degrees.  In the following example, if the face angle is closed by 1.42 degrees at impact, you will be able to make up to a 7 foot putt

The next example is with the face angle at a tour level (elite) 0.37 degrees open at impact.  You will easily make that 15 foot putt and probably 20 feet

 

 

 

What factors impact face angle:  Grip pressure, swing mechanics, in particular alignment, path, overactive hands.  For example. a stronger grip or more pressure tend to close the clubface, whereas weaker grip and less pressure tend to open the clubface

So what does the data tell us:  On the PGA tour, the tour average make percentage for 5 feet is now 82%, but drops by over half to 41% at 10 feet.  For 15-20 footers, the make percentage is only 19%.  (2024 PGA tour data)

 

Pro tip: Therefore, for putts outside of ten feet, one should predominantly concentrate on getting the right speed.  Inside ten feet, concentrate on face angle control for a quick way to lower your putts on course.  These are the ones that have the highest percentage of going in regardless of outside variables. 

Aids to help: String line, putting mirror,

References: Quintic Putting Analysis Software ( https://www.quinticballroll.com ) , Science and Motion, MGS, TXG, WRX, 

very well presented @Cfhandyman and the tips to deliver a square face is awesome. I would be intrigued with the percentages made by distance of the top 10 finishers in tournaments. 

I think I heard Shane Lowry made 180 feet of putts when he shot 62 at Valhalla. and didn't win... 

great read for a rainy sunday morning ... thanks...

[Cfhandyman]

17 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

very well presented @Cfhandyman and the tips to deliver a square face is awesome. I would be intrigued with the percentages made by distance of the top 10 finishers in tournaments. 

I think I heard Shane Lowry made 180 feet of putts when he shot 62 at Valhalla. and didn't win... 

great read for a rainy sunday morning ... thanks...

In researching for this, I also have the best make percentages from the 2024 PGA tour data.  See below.  Hope that helps

 

 

 

[Jim Shaw]

3 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

In researching for this, I also have the best make percentages from the 2024 PGA tour data.  See below.  Hope that helps

 

 

 

now that makes total sense to me, thanks...

[Cfhandyman]

Quintic Putter fitting/testing, Part 3 – What do the numbers mean and what’s ideal

The purpose of this three part series was to provide a simplified overview of Quintic.  It was meant to help you understand and what to expect in a putter fitting/testing, what are the key parameters and what the numbers mean.  In the first two parts we covered, the basics (part 1) and then the importance of face angle and its impact on start direction (part 2).  Today we will cover the remaining key parameters on Quintic, as well as a summary of what to look for during a putter fitting/testing on the Quintic ball roll system.   Please let us know if this was helpful and which part of the series you enjoyed the most.

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt) (0 – 2.0 degrees) Covered in Part 2

2.      Clubhead twist (0.10 – 0.75 degrees).  Clubhead twist is the result of off center strikes  Twisting of the putter will cause inconsistent impact.

3.      Ball speed and pace control (0.35 – 1.0 mph ball speed)  Tempo, length of backswing / through swing and weight of putter head all contribute towards a consistent ball speed

4.      Launch angle (<1.0 – 2.5 degrees), attack angle (<0.50 – 2.50 degrees)  Launch angle is a key factor for the start direction and pace control.  Influencing launch are dynamic loft, attack angle, impact location and how the ball is sitting on the surface area.  Controlling launch has a big influence on how far the ball will travel.  

5.      Spin and roll (skid < 2 – 15 inches), side spin (<10 – 40 rpm), start of forward ball roll (0 – 2 inches)  Zero skid – minimal skid is ideal   On a well struck putt, there should be less than 10 percent skid for the total distance the ball travels. So on an 8-foot putt, ideally there should be less than 10 inches of skid.  Every time the ball bounces and strikes the putting surface it loses energy.

 

Summary of the key parameters and ideal numbers

References: Quintic Putting Analysis Software ( https://www.quinticballroll.com ) , Science and Motion, MGS, TXG, WRX,  

 

[cnosil]

23 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

 I would be intrigued with the percentages made by distance of the top 10 finishers in tournaments. 

I think I heard Shane Lowry made 180 feet of putts when he shot 62 at Valhalla. and didn't win... 

You can get that information here:  https://www.pgatour.com/stats/putting

Just filter the various putting categories by tournament only.  Unfortunately it doesn't break it down by round or sort by finish in the tournament. 

Based on what I have read feet of putts made is another potentially confusing statistic.  Make a 70 footer and you may have a high feet of putts made even though you putted poorly the rest of the round.  

Edited May 27 by cnosil

[Braehead]

8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You can get that information here:  https://www.pgatour.com/stats/putting

Just filter the various putting categories by tournament only.  Unfortunately it doesn't break it down by round or sort by finish in the tournament. 

Based on what I have read feet of putts made is another potentially confusing statistic.  Make a 70 footer and you may have a high feet of putts made even though you putted poorly the rest of the round.  

Hence the old saying "There's three types of lies.  Lies, damn lies and statistics"

[Cfhandyman]

4 minutes ago, Braehead said:

Hence the old saying "There's three types of lies.  Lies, damn lies and statistics"

That's the line of the week. LMAO.

[CFreddie]

12 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

Quintic Putter fitting/testing, Part 3 – What do the numbers mean and what’s ideal

The purpose of this three part series was to provide a simplified overview of Quintic.  It was meant to help you understand and what to expect in a putter fitting/testing, what are the key parameters and what the numbers mean.  In the first two parts we covered, the basics (part 1) and then the importance of face angle and its impact on start direction (part 2).  Today we will cover the remaining key parameters on Quintic, as well as a summary of what to look for during a putter fitting/testing on the Quintic ball roll system.   Please let us know if this was helpful and which part of the series you enjoyed the most.

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt) (0 – 2.0 degrees) Covered in Part 2

2.      Clubhead twist (0.10 – 0.75 degrees).  Clubhead twist is the result of off center strikes  Twisting of the putter will cause inconsistent impact.

3.      Ball speed and pace control (0.35 – 1.0 mph ball speed)  Tempo, length of backswing / through swing and weight of putter head all contribute towards a consistent ball speed

 

 

4.      Launch angle (<1.0 – 2.5 degrees), attack angle (<0.50 – 2.50 degrees)  Launch angle is a key factor for the start direction and pace control.  Influencing launch are dynamic loft, attack angle, impact location and how the ball is sitting on the surface area.  Controlling launch has a big influence on how far the ball will travel.  

5.      Spin and roll (skid < 2 – 15 inches), side spin (<10 – 40 rpm), start of forward ball roll (0 – 2 inches)  Zero skid – minimal skid is ideal   On a well struck putt, there should be less than 10 percent skid for the total distance the ball travels. So on an 8-foot putt, ideally there should be less than 10 inches of skid.  Every time the ball bounces and strikes the putting surface it loses energy.

 

 

 

Summary of the key parameters and ideal numbers

References: Quintic Putting Analysis Software ( https://www.quinticballroll.com ) , Science and Motion, MGS, TXG, WRX,  

 

Thanks as always @Cfhandyman!  These overviews came at a perfect timing - I'll be doing a "fitting" at my local Club Champion tomorrow afternoon where I'll be able to compare Chewie to my current gamer.  Can't WAIT to see this breakdown on both putters - will share my results (along with plenty of pictures) after my session!

[jbern]

On 5/24/2024 at 7:03 PM, Rearviewmirror said:

How have the testers gotten on with lag putting? It's something I still struggle with using my Mezz, and will often leave the ball 7-8ft short on a 40ft putt.

Long lag putting has always been my nemesis. I would consistently leave putts 8+ ft short or 10 ft long. Has it been something that you've always struggled with or only struggled since the Mezz?

Since getting the DF3, my lag putting has improved dramatically. What I can tell is that with my old putter, I would get jerky on the downstroke. Since getting the DF3, I have really focused on keeping things smooth to let the technology do it's job and it seems to make distance putting more consistent. I've only had one round on the course so far (my lag putting was superb during that round), so my data is mostly coming from Exputt.

On 5/26/2024 at 8:30 AM, Bucky CC said:

Lenny, cue the confession music.  I've had my eye on a LAB putter ever since last year's forum testing.  Tried out all their previous putters at PGA Superstore, went through the remote fitting (standard 35", 69°), and almost pulled the trigger countless times.

My interest perked up again this spring with the release of the DF3.  Right as I was considering a purchase for the 500th time I was selected for the Edel Array test (which is a great putter; check out our reviews).  My gamer narrowly beat out the Array in testing, but this dang thread kept the DF3 in the back of my mind.

Fast forward to last night when I had some time to kill waiting to pick up dinner.  Oh look, there's a Golf Galaxy right across the straight from my son's favorite restaurant (Chipotle is heaven for my 10 year old).  Somehow I came home with dinner and a new friend for my other two putters.

Left: Edel Array F-2, Middle: White Hot OG #7 (gamer?), Right: LAB DF3

One of my Array tests was hitting 8' putts on the Perfect Practice Mat.  This is a straight putt following the lines so it's not exactly the toughest putt in the world, but the pressure does ramp up as your consecutive makes climb.  The maximum number of 8 footers I made in a row with the Array was around 17 and with the Odyssey 31.

On my very first night with the DF3 I made 37 eight footers in a row.

Congrats @Bucky CC on the new member of the family! 37 eight footers in a row is phenomenal! Hopefully the performance translates on course! What do you think was the biggest contributor to your initial performance?

[jbern]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:00 AM, Cfhandyman said:

Part Two - Quintic ball roll system

The importance of Face Angle, the start direction of a putt and make ability of putts  – Quintic  

 

In Part 1 of the Quintic ball roll system, the following 5 most important categories were: 

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt)

2.      Clubhead twist

3.      Ball speed and pace control

4.      Launch angle

5.      Spin and roll

Why is Face angle at impact so important: At the point of impact your putter face will either be open, closed or square to the target.  The data suggests that this accounts for 83-92% of the start direction of the ball.  With a loft of 2 degrees at impact, the face angle accounts for approximately 90 – 92% of the start direction of the golf ball assuming a center strike.  Path accounts for the remainder. The effective loft of the L.A.B. DF3 is 3 degrees.

You want the putter face angle to be as close to square at impact

Putting this into practical terms, if your face angle is 2 degrees or more open or closed at impact, you will always miss that 5 foot putt every time.  

 

For an 8 foot, putt it’s 1 degree.  For a 15 foot putt it shrinks to 0.5 degrees.  In the following example, if the face angle is closed by 1.42 degrees at impact, you will be able to make up to a 7 foot putt

The next example is with the face angle at a tour level (elite) 0.37 degrees open at impact.  You will easily make that 15 foot putt and probably 20 feet

 

 

 

What factors impact face angle:  Grip pressure, swing mechanics, in particular alignment, path, overactive hands.  For example. a stronger grip or more pressure tend to close the clubface, whereas weaker grip and less pressure tend to open the clubface

So what does the data tell us:  On the PGA tour, the tour average make percentage for 5 feet is now 82%, but drops by over half to 41% at 10 feet.  For 15-20 footers, the make percentage is only 19%.  (2024 PGA tour data)

 

Pro tip: Therefore, for putts outside of ten feet, one should predominantly concentrate on getting the right speed.  Inside ten feet, concentrate on face angle control for a quick way to lower your putts on course.  These are the ones that have the highest percentage of going in regardless of outside variables. 

Aids to help: String line, putting mirror,

References: Quintic Putting Analysis Software ( https://www.quinticballroll.com ) , Science and Motion, MGS, TXG, WRX, 

 

23 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

Quintic Putter fitting/testing, Part 3 – What do the numbers mean and what’s ideal

The purpose of this three part series was to provide a simplified overview of Quintic.  It was meant to help you understand and what to expect in a putter fitting/testing, what are the key parameters and what the numbers mean.  In the first two parts we covered, the basics (part 1) and then the importance of face angle and its impact on start direction (part 2).  Today we will cover the remaining key parameters on Quintic, as well as a summary of what to look for during a putter fitting/testing on the Quintic ball roll system.   Please let us know if this was helpful and which part of the series you enjoyed the most.

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt) (0 – 2.0 degrees) Covered in Part 2

2.      Clubhead twist (0.10 – 0.75 degrees).  Clubhead twist is the result of off center strikes  Twisting of the putter will cause inconsistent impact.

3.      Ball speed and pace control (0.35 – 1.0 mph ball speed)  Tempo, length of backswing / through swing and weight of putter head all contribute towards a consistent ball speed

 

 

4.      Launch angle (<1.0 – 2.5 degrees), attack angle (<0.50 – 2.50 degrees)  Launch angle is a key factor for the start direction and pace control.  Influencing launch are dynamic loft, attack angle, impact location and how the ball is sitting on the surface area.  Controlling launch has a big influence on how far the ball will travel.  

5.      Spin and roll (skid < 2 – 15 inches), side spin (<10 – 40 rpm), start of forward ball roll (0 – 2 inches)  Zero skid – minimal skid is ideal   On a well struck putt, there should be less than 10 percent skid for the total distance the ball travels. So on an 8-foot putt, ideally there should be less than 10 inches of skid.  Every time the ball bounces and strikes the putting surface it loses energy.

 

 

 

Summary of the key parameters and ideal numbers

References: Quintic Putting Analysis Software ( https://www.quinticballroll.com ) , Science and Motion, MGS, TXG, WRX,  

 

Great Quintic overview @Cfhandyman! A putter fitting class summarized into 3 posts! I've always been curious what an elite putt/putter looks like with the data. On the surface, it looks like you're taking a flat piece of metal and forcing the ball to roll towards the target, but there really are a lot of factors that contribute to a quality and consistent putt.

[Cfhandyman]

MGS Tester of the Week – Steve Fradkin Profile

In our continuing feature of the L.A.B. DF3 putter testing, we are introducing the MyGolfSpy Tester of the week for the L.A.B. DF3.  Each week we will highlight one of the testers. The purpose is to highlight the great work they are doing, but also to get to know them a bit better.  This weeks, tester of the week is none other than, @Steve F.

Where he’s from: He lives with his wife Patti in beautiful Maryland, in Glyndon, just northwest of Baltimore.

Who he is:  He is the newbie golfer of the testers, but don’t let that fool you as he brings a keen enthusiasm, passion and heart to the table as well as the feared Black Mamba.  He is another member of the pushcart mafia and his game has improved dramatically.

  

In his testing of the L.A.B. DF3:  At this point concerning the DF3: I am getting used to it and feel a lot more confident when putting at this time. When I pull the Mamba from the bag to go to work, it seems there is less junk running through my head and I am looking FORWARD to the putt! Must be something in the venom!   Latest test results

  Hard at work on the greens and his hand written notes.  Definitely old school. (editor)

  

What's up next: More on course testing versus his trusty Spider.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Fellow testers (or other DF3 owners):

What are your guys thoughts on the headcover? I think at least a couple of you mentioned in your in first impressions post. As for quality and functionality, I have zero complaints. It's thick and plush, feels incredibly well-built, and the magnets are well-placed and strong enough.

But it seems weird to me that a putter that comes with so many awesome choices of colors for the head has only a single stock headcover, and that with an accent color (turquoise/teal) that not only doesn't match any of the head color options, but positively clashes with many of them.

Have you guys been looking at any aftermarket options?

I know that several of us have joined the L.A.B. fan group on Facebook. It looks like, somewhere in the wild, there is a version of the headcover with black stitching. I can see why L.A.B. switched to the teal: the logo disappears entirely:

One guy posted last night his own custom work, and it's glorious:

As for me: I just ordered a red and a black leather sheet from Amazon. I'm thinking about working up my own Shazam lightning bolt cover.