What's the right ball speed for a 30 yd wedge shot?

[cksurfdude]

Saw this in a newsletter from Golf Science Lab (Cordie Walker) and found it really interesting!

Before you look at the graphic below, here's the scenario...

• 150 different testers (pretty good sample size) 
• Choice of 56, 58, 60 wedge
• Same 30 yd target 
• All shots measured by a FOCAL high speed motion capture system.

What do you think - about 25 mph? About 30 mph? About 35 mph?

Less or more than those numbers? 

.

.

.

OK here's the original Cordie reposted from @paulwood_79 on X...

 

Wow

As Paul mentions in his comments there is a wide range of ball speeds that can move the ball 30 yards, but .. clearly there is an optimal value that yields the best Distance To Target!

Again: 150 different golfers, their choice of one of three wedge lofts.

So say that optimal speed sits at about 36ish mph .. that implies one (of many possibilities) set of inputs to get that 36 mph solution is an approx 30 mph swing speed with a 1.2 smash factor.

One takeaway I see here is the best %tge wedge shot for distance control is one where you'll always maintain the same smooth, even tempo and just vary the overall length of the swing.

Many of you are probably already doing this, but for me it was really interesting to see that data plot prove it out!

So...

What did you guess? Were you close? And what do you think of this study?

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

What did you guess? Were you close? And what do you think of this study?

I had no idea, didn't have a guess.  But I wonder if there's actual value in a study like this, a guide to improved practice.  Should a player strive for a specific swing speed, or strive to hit the ball closer?  I don't know, but it seems short game practice has to be about results, about proximity, that's the number that really counts.  Its certainly interesting, but I can't see that its particularly valuable.

[sirchunksalot]

I honestly thought it would come up around 30 mph considering the loft on the club and usually getting a smash factor around 1.00. I guess I was just basing it on what I've seen from my personal experience. 

[NM01]

Curious if it varies based on shot type as not all 30 yard pitch shots on the course are the same. Pin location, lie, type of grass, green speeds. High trajectory, medium or low, landing and rolling vs maybe a hop and stop.

Interesting data band cordie does a lot fo good stuff. Unless someone has a launch monitor not sure how useful it is. I would just rather practice short game and work on hitting my shots

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 hour ago, sirchunksalot said:

I honestly thought it would come up around 30 mph considering the loft on the club and usually getting a smash factor around 1.00. I guess I was just basing it on what I've seen from my personal experience. 

Right with you here, when I get to those clubs it is typically a 1:1 ratio. 

[cnosil]

7 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

 

So say that optimal speed sits at about 36ish mph .. that implies one (of many possibilities) set of inputs to get that 36 mph solution is an approx 30 mph swing speed with a 1.2 smash factor.

What did you guess? Were you close? And what do you think of this study?

I guessed 30, since the general thing you hear from short game coaches is 1.0 smash factor and my recollection from hitting on the GC Quad.  

I think a lot will depend on the type of shot as well;  can hit a lower high spin shot or a high flop shot.  The higher you go even with the 60 will require more speed.

[cksurfdude]

Some interesting responses, and thank you all who've commented!

I'd also initially guessed it would be about a 1:1 relationship. 

So I'm thinking that while, yes, clearly there are a number of different ways to hit a wedge a given distance .. that is, a number of ways to hit different types of shots, even with different wedges, and considering different lies and course conditions and what obstacles are between the ball and the target, etc etc ...

So while the experiment presumably was conducted at a range or indoor studio, to me the data presented illustrates a result worth considering.

I'm looking at this as analogous to putting - consider a straight, flat putt of say 10 feet. There's a range of ball speed values that are "right" for rolling the ball into the cup .. obviously something too fast or too slow won't work. 

So if we use something like that for distance control in putting .. then wouldn't the same idea also be applicable to distance control on a, let's say, straight flat no obstacles wedge shot to 30 yards?

Yes, I get it, how often does that happen on the course. But - for me that idea of distance control would serve as a basis or starting point for guaging the short game shot at hand.

Yes? No?

[cnosil]

37 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

So if we use something like that for distance control in putting .. then wouldn't the same idea also be applicable to distance control on a, let's say, straight flat no obstacles wedge shot to 30 yards?

Yes, I get it, how often does that happen on the course. But - for me that idea of distance control would serve as a basis or starting point for guaging the short game shot at hand.

Yes? No?

my opinion: yes.  
 

now you start getting into do you use a single club or multiple clubs with the short game.  The balls lie will have a significant impact but let’s just stick with good lie basic short game.   I think you are getting into sort of the clock type approach for distance control.  Basically if you move the club to x position (clock number, body part, or general feel) and let the club swing though it will go a specific distance.  This is repeatable with a consistent rhythm.   Want it to go a little farther you make a little bigger swing, a little shorter a smaller swing.   Go to a more or less lofted club you get different distances for that same backswing position.  You can even open or deloft the club and alter the distance.    
 

Like putting, I could also increase the strokes tempo to vary distance and not change stroke length which means there are multiple approaches.  

[NM01]

1 hour ago, cksurfdude said:

Some interesting responses, and thank you all who've commented!

I'd also initially guessed it would be about a 1:1 relationship. 

So I'm thinking that while, yes, clearly there are a number of different ways to hit a wedge a given distance .. that is, a number of ways to hit different types of shots, even with different wedges, and considering different lies and course conditions and what obstacles are between the ball and the target, etc etc ...

So while the experiment presumably was conducted at a range or indoor studio, to me the data presented illustrates a result worth considering.

I'm looking at this as analogous to putting - consider a straight, flat putt of say 10 feet. There's a range of ball speed values that are "right" for rolling the ball into the cup .. obviously something too fast or too slow won't work. 

So if we use something like that for distance control in putting .. then wouldn't the same idea also be applicable to distance control on a, let's say, straight flat no obstacles wedge shot to 30 yards?

Yes, I get it, how often does that happen on the course. But - for me that idea of distance control would serve as a basis or starting point for guaging the short game shot at hand.

Yes? No?

Distance control would be the basis for gauging a shot. That’s what practice and more practice and more practice allow for. Over time one develops a feel for how far a 56° wedge played forward in the stance with medium speed and lead arm parallel goes as an example. 
 

One could figure out what swing it takes to hit a 60° wedge 50 yards. Then take that same swing with each club and there’s probably close to a 20 yard increase (forgot what GG said in his course) for each club as you go through the bag. So getting distance control is easy it just takes time.

chips and shirt pitches using the same club and varying the speed of the swing from fast to medium to slow gets you 3 shots that will react differently based on how you want to hit a shot. 

[Kenny B]

I have no idea.  Pretty sure I have different speeds depending on the club I am using (54º or 60º) and the type of shot I want to make.  

The type of ball also has a big effect.

[chisag]

... I think this falls right in the feel vs mechanical approach when hitting wedges. Every day is different, how you swing changes even if only slightly. Then you have uphill/downhill, slow/fast greens, high/low shots, roll out/hop & stop and wind into/side/against, green flat or sloping into/away, grain on Bermuda and as others have said which wedge you are using. I play with 4 different wedges and use them all depending on the circumstances. I find all of that factors into every shot so there is almost a limitless combination for any given wedge shot and each one is unique. While I have never checked it because I play by feel, I imagine my ball speed would vary quite a bit. 

[MNUte]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:14 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Curious if it varies based on shot type as not all 30 yard pitch shots on the course are the same. Pin location, lie, type of grass, green speeds. High trajectory, medium or low, landing and rolling vs maybe a hop and stop.

Interesting data band cordie does a lot fo good stuff. Unless someone has a launch monitor not sure how useful it is. I would just rather practice short game and work on hitting my shots

This is where my mind went as well. 30 yards is generally my 4 oclock to 8 oclock movement pattern, but that changes if I'm on damp, spongy conditions vs. true Utah summer hard and dry. I'm not necessarily worrying about my speed since I can't tailor that on the course, just about the movement I have to make to get the ball close enough not to embarass myself.