2019 College Football

[PMookie]

One more



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[fixyurdivot]

OSU got hosed.  A TD taken away and a PI call not called on the final drive.  Between Dabo and Goldilocks post game blabbering, I need a couple of TUMS .  Bring it LSU!!

[JohnSmalls]

12 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

OSU got hosed.  A TD taken away and a PI call not called on the final drive.  Between Dabo and Goldilocks post game blabbering, I need a couple of TUMS .  Bring it LSU!!

What’s your address?  I’ll be happy to send you a couple of orange tums. 

[Shankster]

How exciting...

[Shankster]

Good news is I don’t have to worry about Michigan being the only Big 10 team to lose their bowl game like last year.

Bad news is I’ll have to be a LSU fan for a day.

[fixyurdivot]

Clemson's big break.  It was ruled a fumble/TD on the field.  How this replay could be construed as indisputable evidence to overturn is mind boggling .  I mean this is the principal reason they instituted "instant replay review".  It was otherwise a great game to watch.

 

[Shankster]

Clemson's big break.  It was ruled a fumble/TD on the field.  How this replay could be construed as indisputable evidence to overturn is mind boggling .  I mean this is the principal reason they instituted "instant replay review".  It was otherwise a great game to watch.
 

If that wasn’t a catch... what a joke.

[fixyurdivot]

7 minutes ago, Shankster said:

 

If that wasn’t a catch... what a joke.

 

Yup. I count 4 Mississippi from the secured catch to ball being knocked loose.  Hate seeing a game of this significance go into the records books having an asterisk this big.

[silver & black]

It isn't worth whining about. It was a BS call to overturn it, but that isn't why the Buckeyes lost. They lost because they couldn't get TD's in the red zone.

[fixyurdivot]

8 minutes ago, silver & black said:

It isn't worth whining about. It was a BS call to overturn it, but that isn't why the Buckeyes lost. They lost because they couldn't get TD's in the red zone.

Well, many games are won by special teams and defensive plays - this being one.  In addition to a momentum changer, that score changes the outcome.  

[Undershooter]

18 hours ago, GSwag said:

Not if you are Oklahoma.  

This is nothing new! In the last two CFB playoff games, OU has been outscored a combined 80-24 IN THE FIRST HALF lol. They are 0-4 in the CFB playoffs since it's inception and only played one close game so far. Overall they have been outscored 199-124 in their 4 appearances. That's an average of 50 to 31 with a lot of their own points coming in junk time and the one close game. Their defense just isn't very good, as is reflective of most of the B12.

 

IMO the Pac12, Big12 and ACC(minus Clemson) don't measure up to the Big10 and SEC. There are large talent gaps there and this is the main reason why I think having conference champs as auto qualifiers is a bad idea. Just because you win a bad conference doesn't mean you should get a shot at the title. 

[MGoBlue100]

It isn't worth whining about. It was a BS call to overturn it, but that isn't why the Buckeyes lost. They lost because they couldn't get TD's in the red zone.

EXACTLY...


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[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, Undershooter said:

This is nothing new! In the last two CFB playoff games, OU has been outscored a combined 80-24 IN THE FIRST HALF lol. They are 0-4 in the CFB playoffs since it's inception and only played one close game so far. Overall they have been outscored 199-124 in their 4 appearances. That's an average of 50 to 31 with a lot of their own points coming in junk time and the one close game. Their defense just isn't very good, as is reflective of most of the B12.

 

IMO the Pac12, Big12 and ACC(minus Clemson) don't measure up to the Big10 and SEC. There are large talent gaps there and this is the main reason why I think having conference champs as auto qualifiers is a bad idea. Just because you win a bad conference doesn't mean you should get a shot at the title. 

So what decision process do they use?  Most of us agree the AP/Coaches Poll is fraught with issues. Good grief, just reading the history of that system and its many, many permutations of mathematical models has one reaching for the Excedrin. Perhaps it's time for a new super division, or further restrictions on recruitment, or??  That said, don't forget that it wasn't all too long ago USC was running the west and more recently Oregon, during the Chip Kelly era, was downright scary - representing the PAC-12 against Auburn.

[Undershooter]

2 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

So what decision process do they use?  Most of us agree the AP/Coaches Poll is fraught with issues. Good grief, just reading the history of that system and its many, many permutations of mathematical models has one reaching for the Excedrin. Perhaps it's time for a new super division, or further restrictions on recruitment, or??  That said, don't forget that it wasn't all too long ago USC was running the west and more recently Oregon, during the Chip Kelly era, was downright scary - representing the PAC-12 against Auburn.

It's all cyclical. At some point, USC or Texas or one of the other powers will get a good head coach and the power narrative will shift. Right now though, I feel like only special P12 and B12 schools should get a shot because it's been obvious that they can't compete.

 

I'm not sure what they should use but coaches and AP polls aren't it. I just don't think that P5 conference champs should automatically qualify. I've said that for quite a few years now.

[fixyurdivot]

13 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

It's all cyclical. At some point, USC or Texas or one of the other powers will get a good head coach and the power narrative will shift. Right now though, I feel like only special P12 and B12 schools should get a shot because it's been obvious that they can't compete.

 

I'm not sure what they should use but coaches and AP polls aren't it. I just don't think that P5 conference champs should automatically qualify. I've said that for quite a few years now.

I hear ya, but then there is the old saying "on any given day"...   

[pulledabill]

9 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Clemson's big break.  It was ruled a fumble/TD on the field.  How this replay could be construed as indisputable evidence to overturn is mind boggling .  I mean this is the principal reason they instituted "instant replay review".  It was otherwise a great game to watch.

 

Horrible call to overturn it. If OSU put TDs up instead of FGs, Clemson never gets in the game. Thia should have been a big turnover and possible game changer. Its done and over and Its just another nail in the football coffin for me because of bad  officiating. NFL is basically done after this year unless the Vikings FINALLY go back to the SB or Brees is in it. 

I think the game was easier before all the cameras, angles, red flags, and replay.

Rant over...back to duscussing how the Pac 12 sucks and the SEC rules. 

[tony@CIC]

The Penn State and Notre Dame games are good examples of how top recruits in the O and D lines, on perennial top 25 teams, make a difference - especially late into the games.  LSU leaving no doubt they will be playing for the crystal.  Here's hoping the Buckeyes take down Clemson.
Nice season Notre Dame!!

Not a good football weekend for us Buckeyes - especially from the Cleveland area.


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[txgolfjunkie]

This is nothing new! In the last two CFB playoff games, OU has been outscored a combined 80-24 IN THE FIRST HALF lol. They are 0-4 in the CFB playoffs since it's inception and only played one close game so far. Overall they have been outscored 199-124 in their 4 appearances. That's an average of 50 to 31 with a lot of their own points coming in junk time and the one close game. Their defense just isn't very good, as is reflective of most of the B12.
 
IMO the Pac12, Big12 and ACC(minus Clemson) don't measure up to the Big10 and SEC. There are large talent gaps there and this is the main reason why I think having conference champs as auto qualifiers is a bad idea. Just because you win a bad conference doesn't mean you should get a shot at the title. 

Hindsight is always easiest. OU has laid eggs in these playoffs before and they did it again. However to say that conference champs shouldn't auto qualify flies in the face of every single sport that has playoffs. Do you realize that? Oh you won the AL West this year but the division is down so you don’t get to put a team in the playoffs. Imagine only taking 4 teams from the NBA Eastern division but 12 in the Western due to past performance. The current setup is fine with all the conference championship games. And who would’ve taken OU’s place as the sacrificial lamb to LSU’s best team... maybe ever? Georgia? They got smoked. Bama? They had their chance at home. Oregon? Pretty sure it would’ve been the same outcome. And if your distaste for OU holds due to past performance, we should probably ban the Big 10, arguably the deepest conference this year, from playing in the playoffs as well.


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[Mr. 82]

1 hour ago, txgolfjunkie said:

 

Hindsight is always easiest. OU has laid eggs in these playoffs before and they did it again. However to say that conference champs shouldn't auto qualify flies in the face of every single sport that has playoffs. Do you realize that? Oh you won the AL West this year but the division is down so you don’t get to put a team in the playoffs. Imagine only taking 4 teams from the NBA Eastern division but 12 in the Western due to past performance. The current setup is fine with all the conference championship games. And who would’ve taken OU’s place as the sacrificial lamb to LSU’s best team... maybe ever? Georgia? They got smoked. Bama? They had their chance at home. Oregon? Pretty sure it would’ve been the same outcome. And if your distaste for OU holds due to past performance, we should probably ban the Big 10, arguably the deepest conference this year, from playing in the playoffs as well.


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Are you talking about Oklahoma or Ohio State, because you reference the Big Ten, but then keep saying OU?  I'm assuming you are referring to Ohio State.

Honestly, the entire setup for these "playoffs" is no better than the BCS joke of a format we had before where the computers were involved along with the polls to determine the top 2 teams.

The ideal scenario would be to form 8 Division 1 Conferences, and take the conference champs from each of them and have an 8 team playoff.  Or form 6 conferences and have 2 at large or wild card picks from the whole lot of them.

And if we're going to be dead honest with each other, there are only about 40 or 50 schools that should be playing Div 1 football with the end result being the playoffs.  Smaller schools, while well intentioned, need to be split out into another division of college sports altogether.  There's too much money and power in the bigger schools to even consider it a level playing field against the smaller conferences and schools.

So let's set up 6 regional conferences (and please rename them correctly - because the Big 12 having 11 schools and the Big Ten having 14 schools is incredibly moronic).  And who are we kidding here, this might as well be the JV league of the NFL, because that's what it's turned into.  Just be honest with everyone and call a spade a spade and just do it.

[gobama84]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:11 PM, txgolfjunkie said:

See, I feel a consistent top 20 class is a safety net for coaches. A coach can get lax one year or have the injury bug bite pretty hard and still manage a top 25 season with consecutive top 10 classes. Not counting the 2020 recruiting rankings, the current Texas team, for example, has recruiting classes of #3, #3, #25, #7. Even with some injuries, they can't win more than 7 games this season. In my book, the coaching has been exposed as being mediocre. Texas A&M currently has recruiting classes of #4, #17, #13, #18. However with those class rankings, they've managed just one year to finish the season ranked since 2013. And Jimbo didn't inherit some empty cupboard at College Station either. Sure they had a tough schedule, but if you look into next season, they're floor should be 10 wins. No Burrows, no Tua, no Auburn DL, and a way easier non-con and the easiest SEC East pairing...you better hope Jimbo turns Mond into Winston 2.0 minus the off the field stuff or he might hear some noise. That noise being laughter. Two other SEC schools that has turned consistent top 20-25 recruiting classes into hot garbage on the field: South Carolina and Tennessee. Holy smokes they pull some talent on signing day and yet...well at least Tenn turned it around the second half of this season. 

There are coaches that have recruiting classes in 20s and 30s but field top 20 teams. I equate that to their ability to turn 3 and 4 stars guys into great players who make great plays. As much as I hate the guy, Gary Patterson at TCU can coach up some squads. He manages to keep his classes around 25-35 year after year and despite some inept offenses at time, he has finished with a top 10 ranking three of the last six years. Matt Rhule at Baylor has a top ten team with recruiting classes ranked: #35, #29, #40, #40...and that 2016 class...only 5 players from that class are still on the roster. Over half left/were granted releases from their LOI after the Briles fiasco hit the fan. 

The greatest coaching feat so far in my initial research: Iowa. Holy crap...never even cracked the top 40 in the last 5 seasons in recruiting rankings yet, churning out great squad after great squad. Good for them. Honorable mention is Utah and Minnesota. Never cracked the top 30. 

All my rankings come from 247. 

Don't count out Tua yet!

[fixyurdivot]

27 minutes ago, GSwag said:

The ideal scenario would be to form 8 Division 1 Conferences, and take the conference champs from each of them and have an 8 team playoff.  Or form 6 conferences and have 2 at large or wild card picks from the whole lot of them.

I'm liking this proposal more and more.  I read somewhere that less than 3% of the Div I teams are represented in the national title chase. I for one would love to see teams like TCU, Boise State, etc. get a chance to play for the crystal.  I think an 8 team playoff amongst conference champs, which is purely based on W-L record, would be better.  

[gobama84]

35 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Are you talking about Oklahoma or Ohio State, because you reference the Big Ten, but then keep saying OU?  I'm assuming you are referring to Ohio State.

Honestly, the entire setup for these "playoffs" is no better than the BCS joke of a format we had before where the computers were involved along with the polls to determine the top 2 teams.

The ideal scenario would be to form 8 Division 1 Conferences, and take the conference champs from each of them and have an 8 team playoff.  Or form 6 conferences and have 2 at large or wild card picks from the whole lot of them.

And if we're going to be dead honest with each other, there are only about 40 or 50 schools that should be playing Div 1 football with the end result being the playoffs.  Smaller schools, while well intentioned, need to be split out into another division of college sports altogether.  There's too much money and power in the bigger schools to even consider it a level playing field against the smaller conferences and schools.

So let's set up 6 regional conferences (and please rename them correctly - because the Big 12 having 11 schools and the Big Ten having 14 schools is incredibly moronic).  And who are we kidding here, this might as well be the JV league of the NFL, because that's what it's turned into.  Just be honest with everyone and call a spade a spade and just do it.

So you would take the top 4 SEC schools and put them in different conferences?  If you wanted to have the best teams in the playoffs, that is what you would have to do.  If Oklahoma played in the SEC they would have had at least 4 losses and maybe more.

[Mr. 82]

1 minute ago, fixyurdivot said:

I'm liking this proposal more and more.  I read somewhere that less than 3% of the Div I teams are represented in the national title chase. I for one would love to see teams like TCU, Boise State, etc. get a chance to play for the crystal.  I think an 8 team playoff amongst conference champs, which is purely based on W-L record, would be better.  

Actually, smaller states and regions would be better served forming their own college football league, separate from the Alabamas and Clemsons of the world.  There will NEVER be a day when the Mountain West will be able to compete on a level playing field with the SEC.  Heck, the ACC can't even compete with the SEC at the moment.

It truly makes no sense to me to have well over 100 teams competing in the same "division" of college football.  80-90 of these teams will never make the "playoffs" or ever compete for a national championship.  EVER!

[Undershooter]

16 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I hear ya, but then there is the old saying "on any given day"...   

Except the B12 and Pac12 have modified that to say "Get blown out on any given playoff game day." 

[Mr. 82]

Just now, gobama84 said:

So you would take the top 4 SEC schools and put them in different conferences?  If you wanted to have the best teams in the playoffs, that is what you would have to do.  If Oklahoma played in the SEC they would have had at least 4 losses and maybe more.

No, you misread the whole thing.  You can keep the power five conferences, and simply add another conference for schools that could be considered serious contenders for a national championship based on the size of the school, stadium, and ability to recruit and compete with the Alabamas and Clemsons of the world.  Obviously a school with a stadium that only holds less than 40,000 people should not even be considered for this conversation.  This is about the size of the schools and their ability to compete.

But if you want my honest opinion, when was the last time Vanderbilt actually had a real football team?  Kentucky?  Arkansas?

Maybe it's time to shuffle the deck and split out 72 colleges into six 12-team conferences.  You do it regionally, and you award a spot based on merit and criteria of being able to compete with the top schools.  But you have to have the ability to host a game with at least 75,000 fans in a stadium.  If you have trouble doing that then go play in another division.  And yes, I'm looking at you, Vanderbilt, with your 39,790 seat stadium.  They have no business being in the conversation, let alone the SEC.

[fixyurdivot]

8 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Actually, smaller states and regions would be better served forming their own college football league, separate from the Alabamas and Clemsons of the world.  There will NEVER be a day when the Mountain West will be able to compete on a level playing field with the SEC.  Heck, the ACC can't even compete with the SEC at the moment.

It truly makes no sense to me to have well over 100 teams competing in the same "division" of college football.  80-90 of these teams will never make the "playoffs" or ever compete for a national championship.  EVER!

That waters it down and makes their quest inconsequential (to the national audience).  If they earn the spot they go to the big dance and see what happens... but yea, I get what you're saying.

[Undershooter]

1 hour ago, txgolfjunkie said:

 

Hindsight is always easiest. OU has laid eggs in these playoffs before and they did it again. However to say that conference champs shouldn't auto qualify flies in the face of every single sport that has playoffs. Do you realize that? Oh you won the AL West this year but the division is down so you don’t get to put a team in the playoffs. Imagine only taking 4 teams from the NBA Eastern division but 12 in the Western due to past performance. The current setup is fine with all the conference championship games. And who would’ve taken OU’s place as the sacrificial lamb to LSU’s best team... maybe ever? Georgia? They got smoked. Bama? They had their chance at home. Oregon? Pretty sure it would’ve been the same outcome. And if your distaste for OU holds due to past performance, we should probably ban the Big 10, arguably the deepest conference this year, from playing in the playoffs as well.


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You are equating Pro sports to College athletics. That's night and day from comparing apples to apples!

 

Literally the worst team in the NFL is still full of college superstars. The addition of a few players while having a culture change/better scheme is the difference between them being a playoff contender next year. The same holds true for all of pro sports. All pro sports teams have talent. The margins between what makes a good team and what makes a bad team are paper thin.
College athletics have massive talent gaps from team to team and conference to conference. Not everyone is equal. How many players from OU's starters would start for LSU? 3 of the 22? Maybe??
Just because you win a bad conference does not mean you should get to play for the title! So, what if T Lawrence got the flu before the ACC title game and Virginia pulled the upset. Do you really think that 3 loss Virginia team deserves to be on the same field as LSU or OSU? Hell no they don't. Winning a bad conference is not that big of a deal!

 

And FYI, the Big10 despite their awful recent showings in the CFB playoff do have a title since it's inception. So they get a pass over the B12/P12.

[Undershooter]

1 hour ago, GSwag said:

No, you misread the whole thing.  You can keep the power five conferences, and simply add another conference for schools that could be considered serious contenders for a national championship based on the size of the school, stadium, and ability to recruit and compete with the Alabamas and Clemsons of the world.  Obviously a school with a stadium that only holds less than 40,000 people should not even be considered for this conversation.  This is about the size of the schools and their ability to compete.

But if you want my honest opinion, when was the last time Vanderbilt actually had a real football team?  Kentucky?  Arkansas?

Maybe it's time to shuffle the deck and split out 72 colleges into six 12-team conferences.  You do it regionally, and you award a spot based on merit and criteria of being able to compete with the top schools.  But you have to have the ability to host a game with at least 75,000 fans in a stadium.  If you have trouble doing that then go play in another division.  And yes, I'm looking at you, Vanderbilt, with your 39,790 seat stadium.  They have no business being in the conversation, let alone the SEC.

No chance. Those schools like the money that the Big Conferences provide them. Same for schools in the Mountain West who get paid millions to get blown out by Clemson and Bama. Being D1 and being in the same sort of tier as the top schools is a point of pride for smaller schools. Even if they do struggle to compete.

 

BTW Kentucky won 10 games just last year. Vandy went to a bowl last year and is only 5 years removed from back to back 9 win season. Arkansas is only 3 years removed from back to back bowl seasons and was a top 5 team in the country as recently as 2011.

Don't let recency bias get to you. Arkansas in particular is historically a good program and will be back sooner rather than later if I had to guess.

[silver & black]

21 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, many games are won by special teams and defensive plays - this being one.  In addition to a momentum changer, that score changes the outcome.  

It does, but so would so would 3 TD's that should have been made in the red zone. Had even one of those FG's been a TD, the two bad calls would not have mattered.

[txgolfjunkie]

You are equating Pro sports to College athletics. That's night and day from comparing apples to apples!

 

Literally the worst team in the NFL is still full of college superstars. The addition of a few players while having a culture change/better scheme is the difference between them being a playoff contender next year. The same holds true for all of pro sports. All pro sports teams have talent. The margins between what makes a good team and what makes a bad team are paper thin.

College athletics have massive talent gaps from team to team and conference to conference. Not everyone is equal. How many players from OU's starters would start for LSU? 3 of the 22? Maybe??

Just because you win a bad conference does not mean you should get to play for the title! So, what if T Lawrence got the flu before the ACC title game and Virginia pulled the upset. Do you really think that 3 loss Virginia team deserves to be on the same field as LSU or OSU? Hell no they don't. Winning a bad conference is not that big of a deal!

 

And FYI, the Big10 despite their awful recent showings in the CFB playoff do have a title since it's inception. So they get a pass over the B12/P12.

So who takes Oklahoma’s spot? And winning the conference doesn’t mean you’re in the playoffs. Ask Oregon. This year didn’t have a controversy. There were 3 undefeated conference champs and one one loss conference champs. And what school would put more than a handful of guys on LSUs best team maybe ever? LSU has the best OL and a great DL in the country to go along with a great RB, Heisman QB, and great DBs. Seriously... maybe Clemson? Maybe Ohio St? Otherwise how many would healthy Bama players would be an improvement over the current LSU roster?

 

And if the big 12 is such garbage, why do we have a winning record against the SEC over the last 4 seasons? I’m not talking about the years where the players are no longer on the team, I’m talking current rosters. We’re 10-9 against the mighty SEC. and as a Baylor fan, I don’t give two craps about the big 12 because they’ll screw us at every turn. I have no big 12 loyalty but I can’t stand SEC arrogance. Blame it on the Aggies.

 

 

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