Flag poles

[TimeTrial]

Hi,

now that the rules have changed to allow putting with the flagpole in, has your club changed to different flagpoles to take advantage of this and if so, what type of flagpoles have they replaced them with and has there been any downside to them ?   The reason I am asking is that our club flagpoles are quite thick and thought to cause a lot of putts to rebound off the pole and stay out of the cup so just wondering if clubs have adapted by using slimmer flagpoles or the Javelin shaped flagpoles or something else….  Thanks.

 

Cheers, John

[Tom the Golf Nut]

My club has not changed flag sticks. But ours aren't that thick either. This the best picture I had on file.

[TimeTrial]

Thanks, that flagpole doesn’t look too obstructive. Thanks.

[DaveP043]

The Rules say that flagsticks must be a constant diameter no greater than 3/4 inch in the area from 3 inches above to 3 inches below the green surface.  The thickest part can't be any more than two inches in diameter.  I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed for a good long while.  My club uses the tapered sticks, which are 1/2" at the base, and something like one inch at the thickest part, and hasn't changed them for years.  I guess I wonder why any golf club would choose a thicker or thinner flagstick, do you think they'd want higher scores, or lower scores?  

[TimeTrial]

Thanks for the info regarding the size limitations, I wasn’t aware of those size regulations. On your question regarding why a club would choose a flagpole that was thicker or thinner, for me it is about adapting to the new rules and I believe flagpoles should be thin enough to minimise the possibility of the ball hitting it and bouncing back out from a putt, I have seen this happen so many times now that most members just take the flagpole out when putting so they aren’t punished by taking advantage of the new rule as we have quite thick flagpoles, although I am not sure of the thickness in my.

 

We are looking to buy new flagpoles hence why I was wondering if clubs were now changing to thinner or javelin style flagpoles when replacing theirs since the new rule came into place and whether there was any negatives to them. Thanks.

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

  I guess I wonder why any golf club would choose a thicker or thinner flagstick, do you think they'd want higher scores, or lower scores?  

The only reason I can think of for using a thicker flagstick would be windy areas to prevent damage from constant flexing.  

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The only reason I can think of for using a thicker flagstick would be windy areas to prevent damage from constant flexing.  

That certainly makes sense, but I thought the OP was suggesting that clubs might change flag sticks as a reaction to the rule change allowing them to remain in the hole while we putt.

[Kenny B]

I have been putting with the flagstick in since the rule was changed without much impact.  Our club hasn't changed poles.  I believe a study was done that showed there was a difference between fiberglas and metal poles, with metal poles being more of a rebound issue.

[TimeTrial]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

That certainly makes sense, but I thought the OP was suggesting that clubs might change flag sticks as a reaction to the rule change allowing them to remain in the hole while we putt.

Yeh, more regarding whether your clubs have moved away from thicker flagpoles since the rule change came into effect and if there has been any downside to them although the comment regarding wind is a fair comment as our club is in a area why does get a reasonable amount of wind and it would be good to know how the slimmer and javelin shaped flagpoles hold up in windy areas. Thanks.

 

[cnosil]

8 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

That certainly makes sense, but I thought the OP was suggesting that clubs might change flag sticks as a reaction to the rule change allowing them to remain in the hole while we putt.

It was, just my reaction to your response.    The only potential change to the width I have seen are the clubs that have installed the hands free ball retriever due to Covid; lots of models and some would seem to violate the rules like the one I linked below. 

https://parwest.com/product/touch_free_ball_lifter/

I personally can’t imagine any club installing larger flags simply because of the rule change especially since you still have the option of removing the flag 

[Hook DeLoft]

My club has always used the more flexible sticks. My completely unscientific observation is that leaving the stick in helps more often than it hurts. 

[TimeTrial]

20 hours ago, cnosil said:

It was, just my reaction to your response.    The only potential change to the width I have seen are the clubs that have installed the hands free ball retriever due to Covid; lots of models and some would seem to violate the rules like the one I linked below. 

https://parwest.com/product/touch_free_ball_lifter/

I personally can’t imagine any club installing larger flags simply because of the rule change especially since you still have the option of removing the flag 

Hi, I was more wondering whether clubs had gone to slimmer flag poles or javelin style that are tapered, my own experience is that I receive a lot of bounce outs with the flagpoles we used during the season and most people started to remove the flagpole whilst putting (negating the benefit of the rule change), especially for shorter putts. Now that we have moved into off season conditions, our flagpoles have been changed to slimmer versions and I think it now gives me more confidence to putt with them in except when it is a bit breezy as they appear to move easier and further than the thicker versions which can be a bit off putting. Basically I’m trying to make sure that if we buy new slimmer or javelin style flagpoles for next season that I don’t miss out on any potential issues with moving to them. Thanks.

 

 

[cnosil]

4 hours ago, TimeTrial said:

Hi, I was more wondering whether clubs had gone to slimmer flag poles or javelin style that are tapered, my own experience is that I receive a lot of bounce outs with the flagpoles we used during the season and most people started to remove the flagpole whilst putting (negating the benefit of the rule change), especially for shorter putts. Now that we have moved into off season conditions, our flagpoles have been changed to slimmer versions and I think it now gives me more confidence to putt with them in except when it is a bit breezy as they appear to move easier and further than the thicker versions which can be a bit off putting. Basically I’m trying to make sure that if we buy new slimmer or javelin style flagpoles for next season that I don’t miss out on any potential issues with moving to them. Thanks.

 

 

I think you are putting too much thought into this.   You can find studies that say leave the flag in, you can find studies that say pull the flag.   Ultimately do what makes you feel confident.  

[fixyurdivot]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:55 PM, Kenny B said:

I have been putting with the flagstick in since the rule was changed without much impact.  Our club hasn't changed poles.  I believe a study was done that showed there was a difference between fiberglas and metal poles, with metal poles being more of a rebound issue.

At first having the flag in was a distraction and we pulled it.  But as time rolled along, more folks I was playing with left it in and it no longer bothered me.  About the only time we pull it now is on short putts when the wind has it thrashing about.  As an added bonus, if it's the poles fault, the putt is good .

[DaveP043]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:03 PM, TimeTrial said:

I believe flagpoles should be thin enough to minimise the possibility of the ball hitting it and bouncing back out from a putt

To put this a different way, you think the club should choose flagsticks that will make it easier to hole a putt, that will decrease the chances of a "bad luck bounce" from the flag.  Why?  Just my opinion, I'll deal with whatever flagsticks I see.  The choice is always a balance of risk versus potential benefit, the choice of the flagstick type is just one factor in that balance.

[TimeTrial]

25 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

To put this a different way, you think the club should choose flagsticks that will make it easier to hole a putt, that will decrease the chances of a "bad luck bounce" from the flag.  Why?  Just my opinion, I'll deal with whatever flagsticks I see.  The choice is always a balance of risk versus potential benefit, the choice of the flagstick type is just one factor in that balance.

Actually, it is me that will be selecting the flagpoles for the club and since we have previously used thick poles, I would like to make sure we have poles that give the members the opportunity to take advantage of the rule change without being hindered by it. What I have been trying to find out was whether there was a downside to moving to the slimmer or javelin styles flagpoles to make sure that I made an informed selection for the club.
 

As I’m sure we are all aware, there will always be members who disagree with all sorts of decisions at a golf club and I just want to minimise any complaints as well as make the best decision. Thanks.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

The Javelin shaped flag stick also called the Tournament or Putt Saver flag stick necks down to 3/8 inch around the cup. This is to allow more clearance for the ball to enter the cup and potentially reducing the amount of ricochets that a 1/2 " diameter might produce. Also it makes it easier to reach in to get your ball. They cost about twice as much as a standard flag stick. I would also take into consideration the amount of wind your course sees to help with your decision.  I would guess there would be more bending of the flag stick in a high wind area. 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, TimeTrial said:

Actually, it is me that will be selecting the flagpoles for the club and since we have previously used thick poles, I would like to make sure we have poles that give the members the opportunity to take advantage of the rule change without being hindered by it. What I have been trying to find out was whether there was a downside to moving to the slimmer or javelin styles flagpoles to make sure that I made an informed selection for the club.

If that's your goal, I do think that smaller diameter flagsticks will give a (very slightly) increased probability of holing a putt when it hits the flagstick.  If wind is a concern, as it is in much of Scotland, shorter flagsticks could be a better choice.  There will be less bending force in the stick itself, and a smaller rotational force on the cup in the ground.  At any length, more rigid flagsticks require a better anchorage in the ground during windier conditions, flagsticks than can flex don't impart quite as much force into the cup and soil.  

[TimeTrial]

Many thanks for the updates, appreciated.  My preference so far is the javelin shaped flagpoles but I need to check on the price as I didn’t realise they were twice as much as normal flagpoles which may well influence my decision as with most golf clubs, cost has to be balanced against budget. Thanks.