azstu324 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 I'm contemplating getting another hybrid to replace my 22.5° Maltby 4i. Amongst the contemplation, I'm also considering going down to an R flex. To add more specifics, I'm looking at a 24° Cobra RADspees that comes with a UST ESX 480 F3 reg flex. I know that this is a pretty stable shaft so I'm not too worried about it coming unhinged at a higher speed than the flex suggests. My lineup of wood shafts goes something like this 10.5° Driver: Fuji Motore X F1 6X (X flex) 13.5° Cobra F6 3 wood: Kuro Kage Silver 69g soft trimmed X flex 20° CobraF8 6 wood: Fuji Motore X F3 6S (S flex) So you can see that I have a thing for Cobra woods. My theory is that the softer flexes in the higher lofted woods will keep me from over swinging the club when power and distance isn't the objective. Unlike my driver and 3 wood, I want my 6 wood and Hybrid to produce high flying, higher spinning, green approaching shots. Additionally my idea is to get something that helps keep the face slightly open for a fade-bias as the tendency on hybrids is to shut down pretty easily creating hook machines. I know that my methodology might off so I'm just wondering if anybody has ever gone down 2 flexes on a hybrid or higher lofted woods. cnosil, MGoBlue100 and tommc23 2 1 Quote PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S RADSpeed Hybrid 24* TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle TSW Wedge - 56/12 EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 MAXFLI Tour CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 ... Some may remember when Couples took a 3 wood from Watson's trunk and began just killing it on the course, stating it was the best 3 wood he ever hit until he found out it was an r-flex. Then he couldn't hit well and eventually re-shafted with an x-flex it but it never regained the magic when he was ignorant. So if Freddie can play a r-flex in a wood and you already know you are playing an r-flex, it seems like an excellent experiment to me! MyWifesSwingCoach, GaDawg, vandyland and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BNG Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 I play a regular flex in my hybrid but I bought it that was for cheap and rarely use it. I did play an Oban Devotion 45 03 shaft tipped an inch in a driver last year for a while. I say if you can consistently square the face go for it. While I can’t say for everyone just myself, a softer flex closes the club face for me resulting in a higher launch/spin shot that moves right to left. MGoBlue100, chisag and azstu324 3 Quote What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag Driver: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45” Fairway: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5” F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5" Driving Iron: Rapture 2-Iron Irons: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft Putters: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Comparing flexes across brands is pointless. There’s no standard for what a flex is and there’s different ways to measure them from brand to brand. Now with this shaft iirc is 72g uncut plus it’s going to play a lot softer than what you have in the bag. 72g or less for higher swing players is possibly too light so there’s that to consider. Will something lighter and softer make you not over swing? Maybe but maybe not. Overswing for many comes from bad sequencing. Typically for overswinging fitters will actually go heavier and/or stiffer. Remember shafts 1 give weight and 2 feel. If the either are off it’s not going to help you and will hurt you more. Trying it is the only way to know if it will do what you want. MyWifesSwingCoach and MGoBlue100 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens197 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 It’s all tempo. Tempo translates to load and sequential timing. Flex is barely relevant if you can square the face at impact. MyWifesSwingCoach, silver & black, russtopherb and 3 others 6 Quote Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100 Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60 Nippon Modus 3 120s L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5* Srixon Z-Star XV Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/ Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azstu324 Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 30 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Comparing flexes across brands is pointless. This I understand completely. Comparing any X flex to any R flex however, there will be a notable difference. I'm not worried about the difference in actual frequency as my transition and tempo are not aggressive or jumpy. I'm just curious about attaining the performance characteristics that I'm after. Higher launching, higher spinning without ballooning, and a very specific controlled distance and disbursement. 30 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Overswing for many comes from bad sequencing. I'm not too concerned about the sequencing and tempo of my swing. By "over swing", I'm just referring to pushing the club outside of it's intended purpose of nice high controlled 210-220 yd shots. Mentally if I know I can swing hard, I usually will. I'm not trying to buy a hybrid that I hit the same distance as my 6 wood. The weight will definitely be a concern but there's always lead tape to get the SW dialed. Ultimately if all else fails, I've got a good 80g s flex hybrid shaft that I can throw in if the experiment doesn't work out. MGoBlue100, chisag and MyWifesSwingCoach 3 Quote PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S RADSpeed Hybrid 24* TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle TSW Wedge - 56/12 EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 MAXFLI Tour CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, azstu324 said: 'm not too concerned about the sequencing and tempo of my swing. By "over swing", I'm just referring to pushing the club outside of it's intended purpose of nice high controlled 210-220 yd shots. Mentally if I know I can swing hard, I usually will. I'm not trying to buy a hybrid that I hit the same distance as my 6 wood. The weight will definitely be a concern but there's always lead tape to get the SW dialed. Ultimately if all else fails, I've got a good 80g s flex hybrid shaft that I can throw in if the experiment doesn't work out. ... Golf forums did much more of this back in the 90's. LOTS of experimenting and quite often something clicked that normally wouldn't even be considered. In many cases it was not really an expense, especially for those that had equipment they could exchange. I miss the mad scientist equipment experiments and look forward to your results. azstu324, bens197, MGoBlue100 and 1 other 3 1 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azstu324 Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, chisag said: ... Golf forums did much more of this back in the 90's. LOTS of experimenting and quite often something clicked that normally wouldn't even be considered. In many cases it was not really an expense, especially for those that had equipment they could exchange. I miss the mad scientist equipment experiments and look forward to your results. I know it's been tossed around recently on some podcasts about the idea of an Autoflex shaft just being a remarketed and highly inflated -2 flex and 10-20g lighter weight class shaft. I watch this guy's stuff as he has a lot of good pointers for beginner club builders (me) He posted something about a year ago and nearly got crucified over the idea that a $50 budget shaft with similar flex and frequency characteristics was nearly equal to an $800 Autoflex. Of course people who spent the money refused to believe it was a valid claim. He re posted this recently as a delayed follow up. When I fell down the rabbit hole of club building a year or so ago, I learned to pay less attention to the flex marked on the shaft and more attention to the actual specs i.e. butt, mid, and tip stiffness, materials used, torque, launch, weight, counterweight, etc, etc.. and use those to build the desired flight and performance. It's been pretty eye opening and fun. MGoBlue100, MyWifesSwingCoach and tommc23 3 Quote PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S RADSpeed Hybrid 24* TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle TSW Wedge - 56/12 EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 MAXFLI Tour CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 50 minutes ago, azstu324 said: This I understand completely. Comparing any X flex to any R flex however, there will be a notable difference. I'm not worried about the difference in actual frequency as my transition and tempo are not aggressive or jumpy. I'm just curious about attaining the performance characteristics that I'm after. Higher launching, higher spinning without ballooning, and a very specific controlled distance and disbursement. Shafts don’t launch or spin. They do two things. Provide weight and feel. There are shafts out there from some companies that have r flex that will play stiffer than another companies x flex, so it’s not a hard fast rule that there will be a notable difference. A robot test shows there isn’t, it’s the golfers reaction to the shaft and head combo. Depending on how those work or don’t work for a golfer will determine their influence on the golfers swing and that will influence how the golfer delivers the club into ball which then influences launch, spin, etc. Feel free to read this thread https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1860305-shafts-when-to-change-and-when-to-tweak-lofts/ 54 minutes ago, azstu324 said: I'm not too concerned about the sequencing and tempo of my swing. By "over swing", I'm just referring to pushing the club outside of it's intended purpose of nice high controlled 210-220 yd shots. Mentally if I know I can swing hard, I usually will. I'm not trying to buy a hybrid that I hit the same distance as my 6 wood. The weight will definitely be a concern but there's always lead tape to get the SW dialed. Ultimately if all else fails, I've got a good 80g s flex hybrid shaft that I can throw in if the experiment doesn't work out. But that should be taken into consideration. The way the shaft and head feel can potentially have an impact on that due to the feel and cause the golfer to change their swing to achieve a result, it’s why fitters only have a golfer hit 3-5 shots with a combo because they start adjusting their swing to get a result after that point azstu324 and MattWillGolf 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, azstu324 said: I know it's been tossed around recently on some podcasts about the idea of an Autoflex shaft just being a remarketed and highly inflated -2 flex and 10-20g lighter weight class shaft. I watch this guy's stuff as he has a lot of good pointers for beginner club builders (me) He posted something about a year ago and nearly got crucified over the idea that a $50 budget shaft with similar flex and frequency characteristics was nearly equal to an $800 Autoflex. Of course people who spent the money refused to believe it was a valid claim. He re posted this recently as a delayed follow up. When I fell down the rabbit hole of club building a year or so ago, I learned to pay less attention to the flex marked on the shaft and more attention to the actual specs i.e. butt, mid, and tip stiffness, materials used, torque, launch, weight, counterweight, etc, etc.. and use those to build the desired flight and performance. It's been pretty eye opening and fun. The dollar value of a shaft doesn’t determine if it’s good or bad. People don’t want to believe that. All shafts are good, the thing is not what shaft works for one golfer might now work for another. Finding a shaft that works for each person is when you have a shaft Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azstu324 Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 Did it.. now I just have to go out and hit it tommc23, MGoBlue100 and MattF 3 Quote PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S RADSpeed Hybrid 24* TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle TSW Wedge - 56/12 EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 MAXFLI Tour CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azstu324 Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 So I had a chance to get this out for a test round yesterday. The course I play my practice rounds at is an exec and the front 9 was closed for re seeding so I was slightly limited.. luckily due to the heat and being half closed, the course was wide open for doing some testing so I was able to set up a number of different shots. I hit multiple tee shots with the 5H on the 3 par 4's. One of them has a large tree that grows diagonally from the left side, right in front of the tee box so this was a great test for workability. Usually if I hit driver, the objective is to tee right, aim far right, and hope to hit a draw to the right side rough. If the ball goes straight, you end up in an AZ waste area spotted with oleanders that are really good at gobbling up balls. Hit a perfect looping draw that started right and worked right back to the middle of the fairway leaving about a 75 yd chip. Another hole I played a baby fade that the hole called for and executed it nicely. Each of the par 4's I also dropped a couple between 210 and 220 yds from the middle of the green. I was happy to see that if the ball didn't land on the green,bit was within a flop shot to the pin. This confirmed that my distance is right where I want it to be. As for the R flex, I couldn't have asked for anything more. When doing my practice swing, if I was getting too aggressive, I can definitely feel the shaft get a little whippy. This is my reminder to slow down and like Bob Lee Swagger says.. "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" well just fast enough anyway. The Recoil ESX is just as stable as I had hoped it would be and I didn't notice any unusual twisting or negative reaction. When I keep the swing within my set tolerance, the shaft feels very stable and like it's a good fit for my intended purpose. As for shaft weight, that's not an issue. Total SW is a manageable D1 and that's all that matters to my hands. The real test will be on Friday when I play the Duke. It's a mid long course with some strategically placed dangers that this club will either save or destroy me. edingc, chisag, russtopherb and 3 others 6 Quote PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S RADSpeed Hybrid 24* TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle TSW Wedge - 56/12 EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 MAXFLI Tour CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtopherb Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 My 5h is actually labelled as a senior flex, which I didn't know when I picked it up cheap, as it was listed as an R flex. It's been extremely consistent for me and that's all that matters. Like you I find that if I swing within myself with a smooth tempo it just delivers. azstu324 1 Quote In my carry bag: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex Launcher 5h Launcher CBX 6i-PW CBX 54* & 58* Huntington Beach #10 e12 Contact CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azstu324 Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 Update for anyone who cares Last 2 rounds since adding the Cobra 4h to the bag. 4/4 greens hit from my anticipated yardage of 210-220 helping to convert to birdies on 5 pars, 2/2 spot on placement plays from the tee. So far all of my theories are being supported by results! Softer flex, smoother swing, higher ball flight, slightly higher spin, same distance as my 4i due to 2" longer shaft and overall faster swing and ball speed.. even with 2° increase in loft. Laser straight with no feeling or indication of going left. FYI, I tried swinging out of my shoes on a practice shot and hit the ball 240 with a slight fade and the shaft was stable enough to control the shot and keep the ball in the air without ballooning or falling out. It's good to know I've got that shot when needed.. or if the 6W decides to misbehave. So far this club is a complete keeper and no changes are needed! MattF, cnosil and edingc 3 Quote PXG 0311 Gen 5 9°/ Fujikura MotoreX F1 6X F6 3 Wood 14* / Kuro Kage Silver 65X F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S RADSpeed Hybrid 24* TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle TSW Wedge - 56/12 EAS 1.0 / Grip master 2.0 MAXFLI Tour CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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