New irons/fitting before or after lesson?

[Skinkb01]

Hey, I'm new to the forums and just started getting back into golf over the past 1-1/2. I've never had new clubs and currently have Callaway x14 irons. I've really liked these irons but last year it seems like they lost a bit of distance; I'm blaming the old clubs not me getting close to 40.

2 years ago I switched careers and am now in education and with a lot of free time in the summer, decided to take up golf again. I'm looking at getting new irons and possibly getting custom fitted. Any suggestions on what irons to try? Im probably a 15-18 handicap if I had to guess. My main struggle is 140 yards and in. Last year I was mostly blocking shots off to the right. I'm probably going to get some lessons this year too.

My main question is, should I get lessons before getting new irons? And should I get fitted for irons. Thanks!

[RickyBobby_PR]

They can go hand in hand. Your coach and fitter should work together to get you into the right setup for what is being addressed in lessons 

[Skinkb01]

On 3/27/2023 at 7:47 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

They can go hand in hand. Your coach and fitter should work together to get you into the right setup for what is being addressed in lessons 

That makes sense, thanks for the reply!

[SFLOrange]

On 3/26/2023 at 10:45 PM, Skinkb01 said:

Hey, I'm new to the forums and just started getting back into golf over the past 1-1/2. I've never had new clubs and currently have Callaway x14 irons. I've really liked these irons but last year it seems like they lost a bit of distance; I'm blaming the old clubs not me getting close to 40.

2 years ago I switched careers and am now in education and with a lot of free time in the summer, decided to take up golf again. I'm looking at getting new irons and possibly getting custom fitted. Any suggestions on what irons to try? Im probably a 15-18 handicap if I had to guess. My main struggle is 140 yards and in. Last year I was mostly blocking shots off to the right. I'm probably going to get some lessons this year too.

My main question is, should I get lessons before getting new irons? And should I get fitted for irons. Thanks!

I recently went through major swing changes and opted to hold off on new clubs until my swing changes stuck and felt natural.  Depending on what you are changing, shafts and iron style could change.  It may not be the only way to do it, but I think if you intend to make changes to your swing, hold off on buying equipment until those changes have settled in.

[HAC]

On 3/26/2023 at 10:45 PM, Skinkb01 said:

Hey, I'm new to the forums and just started getting back into golf over the past 1-1/2. I've never had new clubs and currently have Callaway x14 irons. I've really liked these irons but last year it seems like they lost a bit of distance; I'm blaming the old clubs not me getting close to 40.

2 years ago I switched careers and am now in education and with a lot of free time in the summer, decided to take up golf again. I'm looking at getting new irons and possibly getting custom fitted. Any suggestions on what irons to try? Im probably a 15-18 handicap if I had to guess. My main struggle is 140 yards and in. Last year I was mostly blocking shots off to the right. I'm probably going to get some lessons this year too.

My main question is, should I get lessons before getting new irons? And should I get fitted for irons. Thanks!

Get fitted for everything, but take some lessons (plus at least two weeks after your last lesson) first.

Do you have any idea if your lie angle is correct?  Playing irons and wedges that are too flat could be causing your shot going right.  Or the cause could be something else - your swing, playing irons that are too stiff or heavy, etc.  Have someone good work on your swing, then help you select clubs.

Edited April 21, 2023 by HAC

[GolfSpy_APH]

This topic comes up fairly often and always interested in hearing suggestions or methods to each side of it. 

Personally I fit in the after lesson. If you are working on swing changes it would be a shame to spend the money on new equipment only to need adjustments or new clubs following those lessons and swing changes. 

[Kanoito]

For me personally, after a few lessons to iron out big flaws. In my case I was flipping my wrists before impact and that affected launch by miles.

I've had to reshaft an entire set after learning how to properly hit a ball.

[TBALL]

love all the technology available,

but decided against pounding balls into a mat indoors for couple hours only to have the fitters recommend custom clubs for another couple thousand

just my 2 cents as usual

 

 

[Preeway]

These don’t have to be mutually exclusive. I think it’s wiser to get a lesson or two first to get your swing back on track before committing to a big purchase. Some fitters are also great swing coaches but not all make the best teacher. I’d lean towards getting a lesson or two first, work out some mechanics on the range, and then get fitted once you get comfortable. If you are fitted properly for your height, swing speed, etc., then you should be able to continue getting lessons with your new clubs. 

[ai golf]

If you are striking the ball well, then club fitting can work wonders. If you are inconsistent or just hitting it poorly then start with lessons. Let me explain.

Club fitting adjustments are up to 4 degrees today in lie angle or sleeve adjustments. Say you come in with an out in swing of 15 degrees and an open face of 5 degrees and an ill fitted off the rack purchased set.

If we wanted to fix this slice by giving you a draw biased head shape, set to the most closed face setting, either 4 upright or set the sleeve higher, and a shaft flex that matches your speed and we say that the 4 degree improvement helps both path and face… (this is just for illustration purposes)

you would still be swinging 11 out in with a 1 degree open face, which is a 12 degree curve, then we have maxed out all we can do with the club and you will want to fix the swing to achieve a straighter, better flight.

but if you come in with a 3 degree out in swing and a 1 degree open face, then we can see some impressive results with fitting, because now we might see a face to path ratio closer to 0 degrees which is a straight flight.

when it comes to more distance, hitting it solid is number one to increase ball speed, so optimal head shape, loft, flex etc can make a huge difference but you have to hit it to see it. I find that at least every 5 years amateurs might see significant gains. If you switch more frequently it is because you can afford it and it is your hobby and you like spending money on this.

by the way the pros switch out their wedges the most, every two weeks apparently. This is unsustainable for amateurs, but it often is the last replaced club.

Not getting fit is like buying an expensive suit without trying it on. The only set that is right for you is the one fit for you. Out of 100 golfers, only about 5 will walk out without any type of adjustment.

not all fitters are equal, most are honest and understand the job is to recommend and educate, not just make a quota. Just ask for the most experienced one and you will enjoy the process.

I am a Certified PGA Pro and a Master Club Fitter with 30+ years experience and make it a point to educate myself annually to offer the most up to date fittings, which includes systems like GEARS and Launch monitors etc.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by ai golf

[TitleistMike]

As odd as it sounds, you've likely adapted your swing to fit your clubs. The clubs are incapable of change if that makes sense.

Wouldn't use distance as the change criteria. Consistency repeatable trajectory is the key to lower score with course mgt and putting.

A good fitter will tell you if your swing is good enough for a fitting.

[sipsong]

Your club specs will depend on your specific swing.  If lessons result in significant changes to the swing then best to refit and adjust clubs as appropriate.  If your swing instructor also does fittings and/or has demo clubs on hand you should incorporate that into the lessons to have the most appropriate equipment for the lessons.  I would purchase equipment after the lessons as shafts are an expensive replacement option.  Forged club heads can easily be changed for lie angle so less of an issue.  Cast club heads are harder to adjust so best to wait to purchase them after fitting.  As others have noted the two are interrelated but you need a starting point which is your old clubs. 

[MarcB11]

I would also consider clubs that are gently used with the specs your fitting recommends. A friend of mine researched and bought a full bag of used Pings and he couldn't be more happy with his purchase and he saved $$$. He started playing seriously only last year, had lessons, bought the clubs over a couple of months and then again this winter he continued with more lessons. I played with him over this past weekend in a scramble and he was our ringer hitting bombs and iron shots on the green with a beautiful draw. Last year he was a 20+ handicap to start and now he's a scary 15 that could possibly shoot a round in the high 70's and take everyone's coins!!

Edited April 21, 2023 by MarcB11

[RickyBobby_PR]

If one is going to get fit and buy used with those specs it’s best to buy used from the same oem you were fit too. The chances of what worked in your fitting also working will be higher than if you bought the same shaft on a different brands clubs even if the same category Ex GI in cobra to GI in TaylorMade.

The weight, balance, feel, vcog could be off just enough that the brand not fitted to will be a bad fit

[ElmMan]

I agree 100% with Preeway. That is exactly what I was going to write.

[ocramid]

Hi. I have the same question as Skinkb01 with the additional variable being I want to get in better shape before considering the lessons and fitting (and spending a few thousand).  I'm 6'2", 63, and have a chronically bad lower back. My overall health and weight is good, but I've been lazy with my stretching, core, yoga, etc.  I'm anxious to do the lessons and get new clubs, but I feel it is a waste of money until I get into better physical shape.  Does this make sense?  Any other advice? I'm looking at almost a full bag - iron set, wedges, fairway woods, and 3 wood.  Of course when my flexibility and strength improve and I go through the lessons and fitting, I may be pumped up to get a new driver, too!

[LinksgolfFever]

Definitely hold off on purchases until lessons have gotten you to a point where you feel comfortable with your swing/game changes.  I made the mistake of getting ahead of my lessons/swing changes and getting a full bag.  Long story short 18 months later I’m getting new clubs.  It’s also helpful to know what you like to look at and what kind of responsiveness you prefer.  Make sure you share that with the fitter.  
good luck

[Danorville]

I had this same worry. I would have ideally like to get fit by the coach i was working with, but this just didn't work out. I went ahead and got fit for new clubs and plan to do lessons next. For me, the fitting showed I needed longer clubs(+.5") and a stiffer shaft(X-stiff) than i was playing before. I actually feel a lot more comfortable now and think my lessons will be even more effective. 

If you think you have that kind of issues with the current clubs it may make sense?

[mackdaddy]

Before I was first fit, everything I hit fell right at the end of the flight.   I went for the fitting and the fitter asked me after I had warmed in the interview phase.  Is that your normal ball flight?  Do you just fade all your irons?  I said I yes.  He took measurements  of my hands, then from the ground to the base of my thumb.  He checked other things too like the specs of my clubs, length, weights and lie angles.  He gave me a club to try.  Then a few few more.  

I had no lessons.  

I needed 2* upright and 1/2" longer with oversized grips.  I needed I shaft with a different kick point and the same flex but a lower torc.  When I got the new clubs my ball flight became dead straight and a good high trajectory.  I dropped 5 strokes without any lessons.   Sometimes what you are doing wrong is playing with the wrong clubs.

4 hours ago, Danorville said:

I had this same worry. I would have ideally like to get fit by the coach i was working with, but this just didn't work out. I went ahead and got fit for new clubs and plan to do lessons next. For me, the fitting showed I needed longer clubs(+.5") and a stiffer shaft(X-stiff) than i was playing before. I actually feel a lot more comfortable now and think my lessons will be even more effective. 

If you think you have that kind of issues with the current clubs it may make sense?

 

[Will R]

Yes absolutely get them first. Just did this myself, much easier to learn and tune your yardages with your new irons then do it once rather than twice.

[Bob Pegram]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:45 PM, Skinkb01 said:

Hey, I'm new to the forums and just started getting back into golf over the past 1-1/2. I've never had new clubs and currently have Callaway x14 irons. I've really liked these irons but last year it seems like they lost a bit of distance; I'm blaming the old clubs not me getting close to 40.

2 years ago I switched careers and am now in education and with a lot of free time in the summer, decided to take up golf again. I'm looking at getting new irons and possibly getting custom fitted. Any suggestions on what irons to try? Im probably a 15-18 handicap if I had to guess. My main struggle is 140 yards and in. Last year I was mostly blocking shots off to the right. I'm probably going to get some lessons this year too.

My main question is, should I get lessons before getting new irons? And should I get fitted for irons. Thanks!

I used to work for a Golf Digest rated Top 100 Club Fitter until he moved from California to Indiana. I later worked as a fitter at PGA Tour Superstore. In both locations we made efforts to help the customer with his/her swing so we would be fitting their best swing. The reason for that is so that, as they improved with the new clubs, they would be rewarded because their new clubs would fit that better swing. The new clubs would contribute to that improvement. The alternative would have been fitting their inferior swing. In that case, when they improved they would end up fighting their new clubs that were fit to their old inferior swing.

By the way, if your clubs are getting too heavy you may want to try graphite iron shafts in your fitting to see if they work better. They are available in all the same flexes and lengths as steel shafts. They tend to reduce the shock of impact compared to steel shafts. That is really obvious if you hit a shot thin on a cold day. In addition, there are other specs that can vary more by graphite shaft model than with steel shafts. The variations can also be more precise. Those include torque and bend point. Torque is the amount a shaft twists. More torque makes the shaft feel softer for the same flex. However, if you square up the face at the last instant before impact the face won't come around as quickly when you turn your hands if a shaft has more torque. Each shaft model (graphite or steel) has specific torque specifications. The other factor, bend point, varies by model for both graphite and steel. There are more choices with graphite since each shaft model can be designed for specific desired characteristics. In other words, graphite allows more exact specs and more variations available due to the way graphite shafts are made. Steel has more limited options due to its physical characteristics.

On 2/2/2021 at 6:24 AM, PMookie said:

Well, folks, the folks at the R&A and USGA are dead-set on limiting distance now. Bifurcation is coming.

These folks are SO out-of-touch with the recreational golfer, the 99% of golfers they SUPPOSEDLY serve!

 
https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/r-and-a-bifurcation-in-golf-reduce-hitting-distances/

 

On 3/28/2023 at 3:55 PM, Skinkb01 said:

That makes sense, thanks for the reply!

That is assuming the person giving the lessons knows custom club fitting. Many golf teachers do not understand how club specs affect the swing and resulting shots.

[Tincuptim]

My vote is lessons first. With your handicap, you should not need super game improvement irons. Get a few tips and drills to work on and then get fit. Most fitters don't try and change your swing in the bay. Some guys can read data but not analyze a swing. Shaft selection in my opinion is huge. A lot of manufacturers make the same type of irons. Hollow body players distance irons for example: Taylor made p790, Ping i525, PXG, etc. Find something that fits the eye and then whittle down your shaft selection by ball flight, spin numbers, carry,  decent angle blah blah blah. Don't rule out lesser advertised irons like Srixon, you might be surprised. Enjoy the process!!!

[StrokerAce]

Get a 5 pack of lessons and don't think twice about it.

After that you can get fit for the best set of irons that work with the way you swing the club. I *promise* you will shoot lower scores and have more fun doing it this way vs the other way because I tried it the other way and it was a big mistake.

[knotthead17]

Yeah, I definitely agree with most people here and say get fitted after a few lessons. There's a chance that your overall swing isn't going to change a ton and that you would likely be OK either direction but I think it's safer to do a couple lessons and then get fitted. If you have something like a PGA superstore near you, you can start to do demos / "fittings", and start to narrow down to what you like. I could speed up your actual paid feeling a little bit

[Lan Rover]

Surprised no one has suggested this -- Get fitted and see what the fitter recommends. Have him make up a 7i or go to eBay or the brand's used club wesite (or buy new). Buy a 7 iron model that the fitter suggested. Try to get the same shaft recommended or something close. Have the fitter make sure that works for you (ie length, lie, grip). Take that out on the course a couple of times, use it for lessons, and see what you think of the club. If the shaft doesn't work for you try shafts others with your fitter. You could even have him put the new shaft in your eBay 7i head. Again go to the range and course to try it out.

At the end of the process either buy your iron set without a 7i or buy the entire set and you will have an extra 7i to experiment or practice with.

Personally I like to keep an extra 7i and wedge in my car for when I want to sneek in range time.

I did this when two different fitters suggested the same very exotic ($$$$) Japanese iron. Found a 7i on eBay with the factor installed shaft, used for a month, then found an on-line a club builder who specialized in that club head. He made the set for me at less than half of what the NYC club fitters were asking. The NYC fitters got paid for their time and actually did a great job! I got a set that worked well for me, and I learned a lot about club technology and my swing in the process. Found out I like light steel shafts like NS950 and Project X LS even though I previous thought graphite was the only way to go for a 60+ player.

This can be a bit of a rabbit hole, so try to get a good (and patient) fitter and instructor for guidance. 

One last point, if you are standard height, limb length, hand size off the rack will probably work for you. Taller that roughly 6' 2" or shorter than 5' 8" you need club length and lie adjustments. Sort of like buying a busness suit.

Good luck and have fun with the process (not said sarcastically).

[Ralangst]

Really dial in the swing before a fitting, I am a professional fitter and builder. Biggest thing for me is seeing new golfers wanting to get fit right away. New golfers tend to change swings more often and my fear is that what I fit for will be obsolete within a few months as they progress in the game. I want your set to last you years not months. Clubs aren’t cheap 

[RickyBobby_PR]

https://golfingfocus.com/should-i-get-fitted-for-golf-clubs-before-lessons-get-both-together/

[GaryF]

On 4/27/2023 at 5:22 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

https://golfingfocus.com/should-i-get-fitted-for-golf-clubs-before-lessons-get-both-together/

A lot of good info.  I’ve been researching new irons for what seems forever now.  Have been playing ping g15s for about 12 years, and which I was fitted at the time with significant OTT swing flaws.  However, they have served me well and still do but I’ve outaged the stiff shafts and need something lighter and newer (and swmbo agrees).

Three years ago I finally took lessons and had a complete swing renovation and have researched hundreds of hours about swing mechanics, etc.  I’ve hit most of the major brands over the past 10-12 months.  A number of times at pgatss and have the foresight data as well as quick local fits at my club with ping, TM and pxg with supporting trackman data but come away feeling there is bias or something incomplete in the recommendations.  

About 6 weeks ago I found a local teacher/coach that also does fittings for all the brands.  I’ve now had 3 lesson/coaching sessions and feel ready for his fitting.  The decision will be mine but feel good going into the fitting.  In my mind, I have 3 club/shaft combos I think will work but will let him mostly start from scratch since he now knows my swing and tendencies.    It’s a process and one I didn’t want to rush.

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, GaryF said:

A number of times at pgatss and have the foresight data as well as quick local fits at my club with ping, TM and pxg with supporting trackman data but come away feeling there is bias or something incomplete in the recommendations.  

What gives you the impression that there a bias?

what do you think is missing 

[GaryF]

51 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What gives you the impression that there a bias?

what do you think is missing 

Maybe bias was a wrong choice of word, but the pxg, tm and ping sessions were spread out so no way to compare under the same conditions and with each other.  PXG session was 1 hr so a nice allotment of time, but it was in wet, light mist conditions.  Also, the tee area was raised and landing was on a down sloped area.  The trackman data wasn’t jiving with either of our lasers and he was suspicious of it so he reset/restarted the monitor.  I hit the 0311 P very well with both Cypher (65) and MMT 70g shafts, but he deleted the Cypher trackman data before sending to me. Two very diff shafts and wanted to compare spin rates, etc.

With TM, it was a 30 min session and felt I was doing well then asked to try the MMT 70.  Was hitting it really well and getting good spin.  When I was done, I glanced at the shaft and it was the MMT 75g which only comes in stiff.  I’m 69 yo and don’t believe stiff is in my future.  My 7i SS is 73-75; I was getting ball speeds up to 110 with the Stealth, but I’m generally in the 102-105 range.  With Ping, I was hitting with mixed results and again just a 30 min session.  I asked for him to send me the data and he showed me a form he filled out and just said he would leave it at the clubhouse and this is what I needed.  He wouldn’t send me the data. We only hit 1 shaft.

With the guy I’m getting lessons from, he fits across all brands, and for pxg will call the rep to come out.  It will be a better side by side comparison. Last week I was at pgatss and one day hit TM Stealth, P790 and T200 side by side,  T200 has the best combo of carry and 5300 avg spin.  The nxt day I hit JPX’s and Ping.  Ping 430 was the better of the 2 but not up to the T200.

 If I picked between Titliest, PXG, TM, or Ping, I don’t think I could go very wrong.  I realize I may be overly analytical and have learned a lot by doing this, but also realize I don’t know what I don’t know.  I really click with my coach and would really trust his process and advice now that he knows my swing. When I get the fitting and make the decision, there will be no looking back and no regrets. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by GaryF