Mizuno Long Game - 2023 Forum Review

[Beakbryce]

In celebration of other testers starting to test, I decided to go out this afternoon. Weather was 103, wind at 7, humidity 19%. It's a dry heat, very pleasant. Fairways were dry. I put the driver and 3 wood at upright plus 1. Driver should equal 10.5 degrees with a draw bias. I was able to hit a slight draw and still hit a cut when needed. Ball went where I aimed pretty much so still relatively straight with a little draw or cut.

The good news, everybody was better. The clubhead just looked better at this setting. Driver average was 219. 3 wood average was 204 which is about 10 yards better. 4 hybrid was 171. Bright spots, 1 drive at 230, one 3 wood at 212, and 1 glorious 4 hybrid at 183. All high, all straight, all sublime. Still couldn't feel where on the clubhead I was hitting the ball other than a 4 hybrid I hit on the toe with resulted in a toe hook that went 172. If I could hit the 3 wood and 4 hybrid every time with those numbers that would be just excellent for this test. The 3 wood would still not be to the average of the Epic but the 4 hybrid flight and 180 yards would be really nice compared to the BB19 as it was twice as high and landed softer.

The smaller head on this hybrid is a great club to practice with. The swing needs to be spot on as it does let you know when the sweet spot isn't hit.

Really can't wait until everyone is reporting numbers. 

May play tomorrow afternoon as well as there is some sort of hurricane destined for SoCal that may spread rain in our direction for my Sunday tee time. Not much of a chance really but any excuse to get an extra round in. Will play the Epics.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Beakbryce

[russtopherb]

I played 18 this morning and put all 3 new clubs right into the rotation. Here's the results!

Hole 1 - with no warmup at all, the ST-X driver delivered a 248 yard strike that was just down the right side of the fairway, the result of the fade I've been seeing so far. 

Hole 2 - 236 yard drive, a bit on the heel, but in the fairway.

Hole 3 - I hit the ST-X Fairway 210 down the right side on a very short part 4, got the GIR and made par.

Hole 4 - Driver went 243 uphill on a par 5, then I tried the hybrid for my second shot and topped it 45 yards from the rough. Womp, womp.

Hole 5 - 251 yard drive.

Hole 7 - Absolutely yanked one left into the woods, we all thought it would be findable and playable with a fairway on the other side of the trees, but it was not to be. 

Hole 9 - 229 yard popup thanks to teeing too high that went dead straight. Not the best hole to do that on, at 575 yards total. I hit the 4h 191 yards but hit my approach 7i well left, ruining what were 2 decent Mizuno strikes, all things considered.

Hole 10 - 233 yard drive that hit a mound and settled in the rough, pretty much no rollout, followed by a 197 yard 4h out of the rough and straight into a DEEP greenside bunker. We're not going to talk about the rest of this hole.

Hole 12 - 247 yard drive in the left rough, playable. This is where the course turns into links style with a wide open layout and a major increase in the wind. 

Hole 13 - 238 yard drive that ended up in a fairway bunker. Just a straight pull.

Hole 14 - I hit a darn near perfect 248 yard drive uphill into the wind. My buddy wanted to give the driver a shot at this point (I had offered all the clubs up to the guys at the start of the round) and this was the result:

That's my ball on the left, and his on the right. Not too shabby! Even better - I followed that up with a ST-Z 4h I hit on an absolute rope 218 yards to the back of the green. Here it is:

Guess who three putted and turned a birdie chance into a bogey? If you guessed that it was me, you are RIGHT!

Hole 16 - 249 yard drive into the left rough just off the fairway.

Hole 18 - 241 yard drive that found trees just off the right side of the fairway, but I still had a shot at par. 

So my average drive with the ST-X Driver today was 242 yards. Not a long distance bomber for me so far (not that I myself hit bombs on the regular) but there was only 1 drive all day that wasn't playable and honestly NO driver was going to save me there. The fade was fairly consistent but I think I need to work on straightening that out. My Mavrik Max on the D setting is my default and I don't really have as many "rights" as I did with the ST-X HOWEVER I do think I need more range time with it to work on ball height & position. It feels like having the ball farther back in my stance, near my pec helps with straighter flight but I'm so used to it being just off my front armpit with my Callaway that I defaulted to that position a number of times today.

I really didn't get too many chances to hit the fairway, and I think I'm going to walk a round of 9 and use that off the tee exclusively to see how it goes. So far my big surprise was how good and consistent the ST-Z 230 hybrid is - as someone who prefers clubs that lean more SGI, the smaller head and profile hasn't been an issue at all. I topped one out of the rough but that's on me, not the club. Usually longer hybrids fade for me, and this one today wanted to go dead straight. No complaints there at all. 

[Swood1994]

54 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I really didn't get too many chances to hit the fairway, and I think I'm going to walk a round of 9 and use that off the tee exclusively to see how it goes. So far my big surprise was how good and consistent the ST-Z 230 hybrid is

Sounds like the club’s performed well today! I’m playing 18 tomorrow so I’ll have some reports back for the thread. 

That is also something that’s hard for me when I play a round. Most of my shots are driver iron or on par 5’s I’ll use the hybrid in. I play a shorter executive course weekly where I’ll use the 3wood off the tee exclusively so I can give it a fair assessment. 

[vandyland]

Got on the monitor and will present the numbers here first. I did some "baseline" swings at 105-110 mph to see where my normal swings would land. 

So the averages for my baseline (note the Cobra has an inch longer shaft and a different shaft) are in the box at the bottom. Spin is definitely higher than I would like and carry was a little shorter than I like. 

As for the Mizuno, swing speed was down a little due to the shorter shaft but spin was WAY down. Like 500rpm and I noted that Heel strikes still got out there a good bit. Carry was a little longer and total was longer by about 5 yds due to less spin. Dispersion was also better. 

BUT, this would only be a true test if we had a few "go for it" swings at the end...

Surprisingly, spin stayed under control here. Got some better carry and touched 160+ mph ball speed which is always a good indicator. 

Again, swing speed is a little slower due to shorter shaft BUT close to 300 yds and all 3 were over 160 mph ball speed. Not much separating them, numbers wise but the dispersion was again better with the Mizuno. So far, it is doing what I was hoping for which is better accuracy while still keeping up with the distance and lowering spin a touch. Pretty pumped so far. 

[Swood1994]

23 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Got on the monitor and will present the numbers here first. I did some "baseline" swings at 105-110 mph to see where my normal swings would land. 

So the averages for my baseline (note the Cobra has an inch longer shaft and a different shaft) are in the box at the bottom. Spin is definitely higher than I would like and carry was a little shorter than I like. 

As for the Mizuno, swing speed was down a little due to the shorter shaft but spin was WAY down. Like 500rpm and I noted that Heel strikes still got out there a good bit. Carry was a little longer and total was longer by about 5 yds due to less spin. Dispersion was also better. 

BUT, this would only be a true test if we had a few "go for it" swings at the end...

Surprisingly, spin stayed under control here. Got some better carry and touched 160+ mph ball speed which is always a good indicator. 

Again, swing speed is a little slower due to shorter shaft BUT close to 300 yds and all 3 were over 160 mph ball speed. Not much separating them, numbers wise but the dispersion was again better with the Mizuno. So far, it is doing what I was hoping for which is better accuracy while still keeping up with the distance and lowering spin a touch. Pretty pumped so far. 

That’s great! Looks like if that dispersions stays tight and the distances are consistent the Mizuno might be the clear winner!

[Beakbryce]

Now that more numbers are starting to come in, I went back to look at my Trackman numbers. Driver swing speed was exactly the same at 130 average with the Mizuno average distance 2 yards longer. There really isn't any reason why real world the Mizuno is 8-10 yards shorter, measured, and knowing where I normally drive on the holes I am playing. I wonder now if all the fooling around with the adaptability settings trying to hit it higher was a disservice to the club. Going back to stock for Tuesday's round. 

Used the Epics today because my buddy was back from a trip. I can't handle it when I am not outdriving him. Last drive today was smoked, at least for me, 237 uphill. Waaaaaay by the opposition!

The Mizuno needs the same Tuesday as he crows a bit when he is on. Since we were both fighter pilots... I can't handle the truth when I am shorter.

I could watch this speech everyday.

There was a par 3 where I hit 8 iron and he hit 5 iron with both of us just short of the hole but I was closer! I am much more subdued in my celebration. I just asked him if my ball was in the way. Subtle is my middle name.

My new Rogue St irons more than a match for his old steelheads. Which BTW, he bought after trying mine, so maybe a new arms race in the making.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Beakbryce

[Swood1994]

Alright here's my recap of my round today:

All distances were shot based off of approach distance to the flag and adjusted to the center of the green and I have been playing the clubs on their stock settings. I played the driver all day and was happy with the results. All of the big misses were all on me. The course played into the wind pretty much all day and by the time we got to the down wind holes it died off (go figure). The ST-X 230 driver felt very easy to find the center. It's not a monster in terms of distance but I think that can be attributed to the shorter shaft length BUT I can see why Mizuno is going with the shorter length because it was noticeable that my misses didn't feel as big as with my gamer. As far as the sound.. well... I'm still getting used to it. As I've said before the driver has a dull/muted sound to it. I can't get much feedback on whether it was a good strike but based off my tee pattern most of them were center to high-center (still figuring out tee height with new head shape and shaft length).

I was only able to hit the Fairway wood once as well as the hybrid. Fairway wood was off the deck on a 260 yard approach shot into a par 5 (#17). The ball was severely above my feet as the fairway slopes right to left. I hit a low heel cut right at the pin and ended up 20 yards short of the green. A mishit on my part but was happy with the result considering the lie.

The hybrid was a tee shot on a shorter par 4 (#6) with water right (likely the cause of my pull). It was centered and felt really good. This is quickly becoming my favorite club out of the 3. I need to start using it more on risk reward holes.

All in all I shot a better round with the Mizuno's with an 80 (38/42). 3 Birdies, 6 Pars, 7 Bogeys, 2 Doubles (4-putt grrrr, and and OB). I didn't hit a lot of fairways but I was not too far off so I was not in jail. I landed a few nice lies so I was able to scramble for a decent round. If i could have lag putted better the score would've been lower.

I am really excited to get these clubs on a trackman and gets some real numbers and compare them to my Callaway's

Edited August 21, 2023 by Swood1994

[Beakbryce]

2 hours ago, Swood1994 said:

I am really excited to get these clubs on a trackman and gets some real numbers and compare them to my Callaway's

I can't wait to see your numbers. We are on opposite ends of the ball speed continuum for this test. I can't wait to see if their tech results in longer drives against your Paradym.

[Swood1994]

10 hours ago, Beakbryce said:

I can't wait to see your numbers. We are on opposite ends of the ball speed continuum for this test. I can't wait to see if their tech results in longer drives against your Paradym.

I usually hover around 108-112 club head speed and 160's ball speed. which is actually lower than what it used to be in college (ahhhh the glory days). Just as you are seeing where the Mizuno is slightly longer on the trackman but somehow seemingly shorter in play, I think on course conditions and roll out plays a big factor in shooting distances to target when on the course. Right now if I had to guess the Paradym will be longer but I think the dispersion will be better on the Mizuno. Depending on the distance loss (if any) the Mizuno may have a stay in my bag just due to better dispersion/accuracy. BUT that will likely prompt me to grab a 45" shaft for the Paradym to see how it compares at the same length. 

Next step, which I think will be just as fun, is playing 2 balls off the tee one with the Mizuno one with the Paradym. The only variable there is me and my swing.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Swood1994

[russtopherb]

14 minutes ago, Swood1994 said:

I usually hover around 108-112 ball speed and 160's club head speed. 

You sure about that? 

[GolfSpy_BOS]

31 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

You sure about that? 

you're right... that wouldn't be very efficient at all! haha  But I'm sure I'm not the only one who read it as @Swood1994 probably intended... 160mph club head speed would be fun to watch though! 

[Swood1994]

51 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

You sure about that? 

Yea you didn't see me on the world long drive stage?? (mainly the 160 club head speed) haha In my defense It was early and I didn't have my coffee yet! Thankfully there is an Edit button for people like me!

Edited August 21, 2023 by Swood1994

[russtopherb]

20 minutes ago, GolfSpy BOS said:

you're right... that wouldn't be very efficient at all! haha  But I'm sure I'm not the only one who read it as @Swood1994 probably intended... 160mph club head speed would be fun to watch though! 

Oh I figured as much too... my mind kind of exploded a bit at the thought of a 160mph clubhead speed from @Swood1994 

[Swood1994]

@russtopherb @GolfSpy BOS Just a rough conversion here for fun.. on average a 120MPH club head speed produces a 178MPH ball speed at a 0° attack angle. So a 160MPH club head speed would produce roughly a 237MPH ball speed which would be 3MPH short of the world record at 240.8 (with a 47.75" shaft OTR shaft). I think I'd be in the wrong testing pool with those numbers haha

[GolfSpy_BOS]

2 minutes ago, Swood1994 said:

@russtopherb @GolfSpy BOS Just a rough conversion here for fun.. on average a 120MPH club head speed produces a 178MPH ball speed at a 0° attack angle. So a 160MPH club head speed would produce roughly a 237MPH ball speed which would be 3MPH short of the world record at 240.8 (with a 47.75" shaft OTR shaft). I think I'd be in the wrong testing pool with those numbers haha

I'd say you probably ordered too much loft for your test clubs! haha  But yeah... 160*1.5 smash gets to a theoretical 240 ball speed max.... insane that someone actually got there.... 

[vandyland]

Similar to @Swood1994, I played this weekend but I found my Mizuno was going as far or farther than my gamer. Caveat, it was 100* heat index so would expect the ball to really fly and boy did it (for the most part). Overall, I think the carry distances look the same to my eye but I am getting a little more roll from the Mizuno due to lesser spin and it comes out a tad lower which is probably good for into the wind shots. Total average of drivers (including a heel miss which I document at the end) was 292. If I removed the heel miss then driver average was 297 which...wow. And all of them were playable with no punch out, OB or otherwise shot lost off the tee. Overall I was +1.20 shots gained off the tee against a scratch in a round where I shot 6 over so...yeah...it was good. THIS DRIVER HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO "THREATENING" MY COBRA RADSPEED. 

DRIVER
First time out on the course with the Driver. Have to say it felt great and I was in control most of the day. The best of the bunch was the drive on #10 which was 321 yds total and actually past the driveable green. My mistake because I always aim out to the right to avoid the greenside bunkers but this one flew about 25 yds farther than I expected. Dead straight where I was aimed and just a beautiful shot. 

My other star of the day was on 17 where I cut the corner a tad and only had 5 iron into what usually plays fairly long for me (typically into the wind and you have to challenge the dogleg to have a reasonable shot in). I remember this one because I didn't even really feel like I "caught it" and it just went. 

The rest of the drives are below with the exception of one that I want to speak to:

Hole 3 got to hit both the driver AND the 19* hybrid which was nuclear. I was honestly trying to layup just short and I about flew the green right. 260ish with a 19* hybrid is....far. 

Hole 4 is a big swinging dogleg where I tried to hit a draw and just ended up hitting it extremely straight. So good swing just didn't start it far enough left. 

Hole 6 is another dogleg (do you see a trend at my course?) and anything over 275+ is good for me. Also just bunted a hybrid because I am scared of the water so that is a good indicator of its flexibility. I can hit it 260 and then 200 within a few holes of each other. 

Hole 8 was just a beauty. Exact window I want to see, usually I don't even worry about the water but now I am starting to have to think about it if it gets drier around here with the reduced spin. 

Hole 9, more of the same:

We discussed hole 10 at the jump and hole 17 so I want to conclude by talking about a MISS. A dreaded heel miss as well. Like it felt like I almost missed the clubface. Just an awful swing. Anyway, here is what I got out of it...

262 into a playable position just off the right side of the fairway. Normally I feel like this thing either spins into oblivion and/or goes 220. This was a sneaky amazing shot. Couldn't believe it stayed in play AND got out there over 250. Very encouraging. 

Is it too early to go ahead and say the Mizuno STZ 230 driver has won it's showdown against the Cobra Radspeed, yes probably. It's only one round but I went back and looked at my driver only averages for the last 5 tracked rounds to try to battle what I did with the Mizuno which was:

MIZUNO - Average Distance: 300 yds // Strokes gained against 0.0 index: +1.20 // 20% fairways // No balls OB // two misses 20 yd left and on miss 40 yd right 

COBRA - Previous 3 rounds:
Average Distance: 273 yds // SG: +1.20 // 40% fairways // No balls OB  // Biggest miss left was 10 yd and two 40 yd right misses and one 50 yd miss right
Average Distance: 279 yds // SG: +1.90 // 60& fairways // No balls OB // Biggest miss left was 50 yd and one miss 40 yd right
Average Distance: 278 yds // SG: +1.10 // 30% fairways // No balls OB // Biggest miss left was 40 yds left and two misses 40 yds right

All rounds were played at same course under mostly the same conditions. The fairways hit % looks low but I really just barely off the fairway most of the day and the fairways are not wide (35 yds on average). Ball flight seems very stable and controllable and I just need to get a few more rounds under my belt to see if I was just having a really good driving day or if the Mizuno is truly more stable and controllable. 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

18 hours ago, Swood1994 said:

The hybrid was a tee shot on a shorter par 4 (#6) with water right (likely the cause of my pull). It was centered and felt really good. This is quickly becoming my favorite club out of the 3. I need to start using it more on risk reward holes.

I really like the hybrid too! Initially I thought it looked small and a bit strange at first but it actually isn't any smaller than my current gamer, it just seems to look sleeker. Anyway, I have initially had great results with it so far. 

HYBRID
I didn't hit the hybrid that often in my first round (I may have to have a round where I ONLY hit hybrids off the tee to put it through the proper paces). I hit Hybrid off the tee on #7 (dogleg right and I can't hit a cut so I try to hit it right to the end of the dogleg) and #13 pretty tight, short hole with no real benefit to hitting driver. I hit the fairway in both instances (252 yds on #7 and 231 yds on #13). The tee shot on #13 felt steep and not great but still went out there straight with minimal distance loss. #7 felt pretty ideal. 

Also hit several approaches with the hybrid on par 5s. On #3 I had 250 in and hit it just right 257 yds past the green. I hit a punch running 3H on #6 to get it in a good place short of the green (200 yds) which was deliberate. Tried to hit a fade (did I mention I can't really hit fades?) 3H from 225 on #12 but it went straight so I missed the green just left. Then had 260 into a par 5 from the right rough (after a heeled driver) and hit it 225 out of some fairly thick rough which was a great sign. 

Hard to say much against this one so far. THIS HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO "THREATENING" MY CALLAWAY ROGUE ST MAX HYBRID. 

Mizuno Pro Fli-Hi
This is my problem child at the moment. I didn't hit it great on the simulator and that continued on the course. Granted I only hit it twice but I "clanked" both of them off the toe. This club feels very punishing if you miss the center BUT I will say that I had both of my toe misses go fairly straight and roll out to about 205. So not a disaster by any means but I have yet to "flush" one outside. This club will also probably get its own "day" or at least 9 where I hit it off every tee and for every long approach shot. I *think* it is just setting up a little differently for me since it is an inch shorter and the lie angle might be slightly different. I know, I know, excuses excuses. But this is the club, so far, that is not blowing me away but it is early days. THIS HAS SEEN NO CHANGE IN STATUS, STILL IN "CHALLENGER" STATUS. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by vandyland

[Beakbryce]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

The best of the bunch was the drive on #10 which was 321 yds total and actually past the driveable green.

Okay then. Now I really feel ancient! Even in my glory days playing in the All Marine, I never hit it that far. I mean, they were wooden clubs and all but still, I swung hard.

If I were to play any of you guys, could I get 6 a side and play from the forward tees?

 

 

[Swood1994]

4 minutes ago, Beakbryce said:

Okay then. Now I really feel ancient! Even in my glory days playing in the All Marine, I never hit it that far. I mean, they were wooden clubs and all but still, I swung hard.

If I were to play any of you guys, could I get 6 a side and play from the forward tees?

 

 

One thing I've found with distance is it can't save you if your short game is bad... I believe Rahm said your short game is like a hospital, when your game is sick your short game saves you. I hate to admit it but I've made plenty of bogeys from inside 100 yards off of my drive.. 

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, Beakbryce said:

I mean, they were wooden clubs and all but still, I swung hard.

I doubt I could hit a persimmon more than 240, these new clubs make things a lot easier! I honestly am more interested to see how this Mizuno handles my bad days (yesterday was a very good day). I did have one heel miss that turned out to be fine which I really like to see. 

Also, I have updated my original post with the trackman numbers. Trying not to make that post 6,000 words long but it is hard! Very excited. 

[Shrek74]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:26 PM, russtopherb said:

Hole 10 - 233 yard drive that hit a mound and settled in the rough, pretty much no rollout, followed by a 197 yard 4h out of the rough and straight into a DEEP greenside bunker. We're not going to talk about the rest of this hole.

Haha, I love this. Probably the most relatable comment to the large majority of us. 

[Beakbryce]

4 hours ago, vandyland said:

I doubt I could hit a persimmon more than 240, these new clubs make things a lot easier! I honestly am more interested to see how this Mizuno handles my bad days (yesterday was a very good day). I did have one heel miss that turned out to be fine which I really like to see. 

Okay, now you are just making me feel good. I was good for 240 back then. I really think you may be wanting to adjust that 6 a side request! Now when you hear us old guys saying the new technology has largely allowed us to stay close to the same yardage you know why. We couldn't hit those clubs anywhere. Golf was fun though. Those heavy steel shafts and wooden clubheads, those were real manly clubs. Could have substituted for bayonet practice.

 

 

[Beakbryce]

So less than 10% chance of rain this morning predicted for this afternoon. As anyone who lives in Az knows, 80% chance means rain in the next month, maybe. Anyway, it was 85 degrees so went and played. After more than a month above 110 it was almost cold.

Sprinkled the whole time.  Lovely. Part of me was melting. The hurricane that devastated SoCal hasn't done much here.

Quick driver review. Started stock 9.5 degree which did not go far with a low exceptionally straight ball flight. Then went to plus 1 and then upright plus 1 in an effort to get the ball higher and longer. Ball went higher but was less straight although straight enough. Distance was still not in line with the driver competition, my Callaway Epic. After reading other numbers now starting to filter in, decided to go back to stock settings.

Well, made headway. Eight of the 14 drives were hit well. Hit 12 of 14 fairways. Seemed like I was always into the wind hitting 210, 210, 214, 217 with only one downwind at 230. The 8 drives averaged 218. Still 6 to 10 yards short of the Epic but these reported hits were very straight. I also found out this club loves the Pro V1X. 10 yards longer with that ball over a regular Pro V1. Need to get a Vice Pro + out there soon. I was happier with the ball flight as well as it was a little higher if I remembered to tee the 4 more yard tee a little higher. Again, higher maybe due to the Pro V1X?

Not going to talk about the 3 wood. It's still in no mans land seeking aid and shelter. 

Now for the bright spot. The 4 hybrid. I need this club to feed my 170-180 yard gap. Hit it 3 times full on, 180, 180, 183, and choked up once to hit it 170. High flight and soft landing. The ball flight is so much better than my Great Big Bertha 2019 (BB19). I already am leaving the Mizuno in the bag all the time. The club is an absolute revelation. My 6 and 7 hybrid, also BB19's, are a little bummed about their 4 hybrid cousin. The Mizuno is just so good looking, the 6 and 7 are reportedly somewhat enchanted. Fickle boys!

BTW, I played the 5809 set of tees with a course rating of 107, so fairly easy course. Shot 1 over. Didn't miss to many greens. In fact, I chipped more often because we have 3 drivable par 4 holes, 2 of which I hit driver and 1 I hit the 4 hybrid. Despite that, only made 1 birdie. If only my putting was as good as the rest of my game. In my defense, all of our greens are recovering from being plugged with large tines so it's a bit of a roller coaster. 

I believe if one picks the right set of tees, one only needs to be long enough. If I get within 200 yards of the green, I have a good chance to hit it. Approach is the best part of my game. Today however, the longest club I needed other than par 3s was a 7 hybrid.

Tomorrow playing with my "nemesis", actually a good buddy. I like to play better against him, I hope those reading this understand that mainly means longer, so back to the Epics. 

[Swood1994]

25 minutes ago, Beakbryce said:

Hit 12 of 14 fairways. Seemed like I was always into the wind hitting 210, 210, 214, 217 with only one downwind at 230. The 8 drives averaged 218. Still 6 to 10 yards short of the Epic but these reported hits were very straight. I also found out this club loves the Pro V1X. 10 yards longer with that ball over a regular Pro V1.

The ball difference is interesting and I may need to try that out.. any sound differences?

Also I’ve been meaning to ask have you hit the Epic and Mizuno on the same tee to determine which one is longer or just going off of your normal approach areas from playing so much with the Epic?

[Beakbryce]

34 minutes ago, Swood1994 said:

The ball difference is interesting and I may need to try that out.. any sound differences?

Also I’ve been meaning to ask have you hit the Epic and Mizuno on the same tee to determine which one is longer or just going off of your normal approach areas from playing so much with the Epic?

I know sound is important, but I really can't remember the sound when I get home. I guess that is saying something. I will pay more attention. 

I haven't taken both out at the same time and hit both from the tee to really do a one on one. My Sun, Tue, Thur group is usually first or second off in the morning and playing 2 balls would just be wrong with the cavalcade behind us. This is a military course and the groups are expected to play in about 3.5 hours. 

I could do that at the courses in my community in the afternoon when it gets hot again as most people here won't play when it is above 110. I will pencil that in as an appropriate test. 

Generally, distance is a hard number from my Sky Caddie 400 or if I forget to "mark" the ball, the base course carts have GPS with driver distance. You are correct in that I have established landing areas from all the tees I play based on the last 20+ years and the Mizuno isn't reaching those areas. I generally wait to get a driver for several generations. I received the Epic in 2017. I haven't yet found a driver that is significantly longer or straighter, so it has spent some time in the bag. I generally play over 150 rounds a year so I know the landing areas well. 

[russtopherb]

I went to the range this morning with the intent to straighten out the driver flight. I put an alignment stick down to make sure I was putting the ball position a little further back in my stance, which seems to work better for me with the Mizuno vs my Callaway Mavrik Max. I still had a little fade so I opted to boost the loft up to 11.75* which closes the face by around 2*, per the Mizuno specs on the website. I had mentioned earlier that in my fitting the ball was drawing for me, but I haven't seen that at all on the range or the course leaving the head in the standard setting.

I will say that making the adjustment had a noticeable change in ballflight - there was still a slight fade but it was pretty straight right until the end when it would tail off by maybe 3-4 yards as the ball was coming down. I'm more than OK with that, since that sort of fade doesn't lead to the ball rolling out towards the right (and potentially the rough) vs a ball that's curving while still in the air.

Friday is my next round, so I'll be sure to report back on how things go on the course. There's a few tight holes there where I'll definitely be able to get the fairway wood some time as well.

[vandyland]

2 hours ago, russtopherb said:

I will say that making the adjustment had a noticeable change in ballflight - there was still a slight fade but it was pretty straight right until the end when it would tail off by maybe 3-4 yards as the ball was coming down. I'm more than OK with that, since that sort of fade doesn't lead to the ball rolling out towards the right (and potentially the rough) vs a ball that's curving while still in the air.

I have wondered about tinkering with the settings as well just as a test in itself. This is the push I need (along with @Beakbryce doing it back when he was the only tester) to force myself to mess with the settings. For my own reminder I will put the hosel settings here, mine is a 9.5* so everything will be -1.0* as the picture uses the 10.5* setting. I am pretty sure this driver + shaft combo is an improvement so now I can stop comparing it to my gamer and just hone in on ideal settings. 

So now this is kind of an academic conversation (paging @RickyBobby_PR ) but my expectation is (all things being equal):

- decreasing loft opens the face, decreases spin, lowers launch, maybe encourages slightly more of a fade as a result of the opened face HYPOTHESIS - this could help me two ways by further reducing spin and decreasing my draw a tad
- increasing loft closes the face, increases spin, raises launch, maybe encourages slightly more of a draw as result of the closed face HYPOTHESIS - with my current ballflight, I don't see how this helps me but I will try it
- going upright (for a right hander) encourages a more left/draw bias ball flight or is more about changing the initial start line of the ball more left? HYPOTHESIS - if this just moves the start line more left and encourages a draw I don't think that is helpful UNLESS I think I can totally eliminate one side of the golf course
- it does not appear at though I have the option to go "flat" in this driver, which is fine. I can either go standard or upright or UPRIGHT it seems. 

I will admit I get confused on upright/flat lie angle settings WAY more than I should. I have always been a little leery of changing lie angle settings as I didn't want to get "used" to a flat or upright position since I am fairly average height and my irons are all standard lie. Maybe that is a dumb thing to not check or mess with but it is almost like "if I need this setting maybe I should work on my swing"....maybe that is an ignorant position to take. My driving is pretty good most days relative to the rest of my game so this has always been a "if it isn't broken don't fix it." I should note that my gamer driver's lie angle is 58.50* (or thereabouts depending on manufacturing tolerances) and STZ is stock at 57.5* so the STZ is already a little flatter. I am curious what happens if I go straight into a 60.5* lie angle. 

But, for the good of the masses here at My Golf Spy, I will tinker (I also love to tinker, haha). I assume most people are most interested in the driver but I can also make these same changes on my hybrid. I was curious about dropping the loft on my hybrid anyway to help the gapping between my Driver and Utility iron (21* / 21.5* on that one depending on if it is the Callaway or the Fli Hi). 

[Swood1994]

13 minutes ago, vandyland said:

mine is a 9.5* so everything will be -1.0* as the picture uses the 10.5* setting.

Here is the 9.5° Chart. Mizuno's website has a scroll option for the different heads

[NM01]

16 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I have wondered about tinkering with the settings as well just as a test in itself. This is the push I need (along with @Beakbryce doing it back when he was the only tester) to force myself to mess with the settings. For my own reminder I will put the hosel settings here, mine is a 9.5* so everything will be -1.0* as the picture uses the 10.5* setting. I am pretty sure this driver + shaft combo is an improvement so now I can stop comparing it to my gamer and just hone in on ideal settings. 

So now this is kind of an academic conversation (paging @RickyBobby_PR ) but my expectation is (all things being equal):

- decreasing loft opens the face, decreases spin, lowers launch, maybe encourages slightly more of a fade as a result of the opened face HYPOTHESIS - this could help me two ways by further reducing spin and decreasing my draw a tad
- increasing loft closes the face, increases spin, raises launch, maybe encourages slightly more of a draw as result of the closed face HYPOTHESIS - with my current ballflight, I don't see how this helps me but I will try it
- going upright (for a right hander) encourages a more left/draw bias ball flight or is more about changing the initial start line of the ball more left? HYPOTHESIS - if this just moves the start line more left and encourages a draw I don't think that is helpful UNLESS I think I can totally eliminate one side of the golf course
- it does not appear at though I have the option to go "flat" in this driver, which is fine. I can either go standard or upright or UPRIGHT it seems. 

I will admit I get confused on upright/flat lie angle settings WAY more than I should. I have always been a little leery of changing lie angle settings as I didn't want to get "used" to a flat or upright position since I am fairly average height and my irons are all standard lie. Maybe that is a dumb thing to not check or mess with but it is almost like "if I need this setting maybe I should work on my swing"....maybe that is an ignorant position to take. My driving is pretty good most days relative to the rest of my game so this has always been a "if it isn't broken don't fix it." I should note that my gamer driver's lie angle is 58.50* (or thereabouts depending on manufacturing tolerances) and STZ is stock at 57.5* so the STZ is already a little flatter. I am curious what happens if I go straight into a 60.5* lie angle. 

But, for the good of the masses here at My Golf Spy, I will tinker (I also love to tinker, haha). I assume most people are most interested in the driver but I can also make these same changes on my hybrid. I was curious about dropping the loft on my hybrid anyway to help the gapping between my Driver and Utility iron (21* / 21.5* on that one depending on if it is the Callaway or the Fli Hi). 

Yeah all things being equal you are correct.

As for lie while there are some that say it’s not as important part of the fitting of drivers there is still caution to be taken because too flat and you get the right shot.

So it has to be taken into account with the changes in loft and face closure changes. 
 

Before making any changes, get a baseline of where your face contact is. Impact tape or foot spray. Keep this in mind. For every 1/8” spin will change by 240rpm and launch by .35°. As you go up the face spin drops and launch increases, vice versa as you move down the face. Most drivers hotspot is around 3/8” towards toe and 2/8” up from center.

So options would be to play with the settings and also length and weight to see what changes are needed to optimize the contact.

When making loft/lie changes always go to the extreme for whatever you are trying to do then backdown from there.

Record where on the face the contact is happening with each change.

including this as a possible option for dialing in your changes 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/960350-diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/

 

edit: since we all react differently to changes in how the face looks and that will make all things no longer equal because our mind will make adjustments to get to square at impact. My last titleist fitter did this to me. We were all dialed in, he had no more appointments for the day and asked if he could use me to play with settings and record the changes. He tweaked loft and lie from where we finished and one we didn’t use in the fitting. The look at address wasn’t suited to my eye and the ball flight I prefer. In order to try and get that result he noticed I changed my swing to compensate and the results of ball flight were terrible. Couldn’t keep the ball in play at all with a big right miss 

[vandyland]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Before making any changes, get a baseline of where your face contact is. Impact tape or foot spray. Keep this in mind. For every 1/8” spin will change by 240rpm and launch by .35°. As you go up the face spin drops and launch increases, vice versa as you move down the face. Most drivers hotspot is around 3/8” towards toe and 2/8” up from center.

This will be on trackman, do we trust the face contact display on those? Typically I have found them to be fairly accurate when I feel a high, toe miss it shows a high toe miss etc.