2013 Nike Golf Live Stream (Reveal Thread)

[Tony Covey MGS]

Redesigned 20XI has RZN mantle, better sound and feel. Dropped "S" from name to be more in line with other brands and to combat stigma of S-version as spiny, soft ball, not as long as 20XI-X

[Tony Covey MGS]

@MyGolfSpy: New @nikegolf 20XI ball is softer than beloved Tour and Tour D ball, but offers more distance. Reduced iron spin, better control in wind.

[Tony Covey MGS]

@MyGolfSpy: New @nikegolf 20XI ball is softer than beloved Tour and Tour D ball, but offers more distance. Reduced iron spin, better control in wind.

[Tony Covey MGS]

@MyGolfSpy: One RZN-X is the longest, fastest ball @nikegolf has ever developed. Positioned against NXT, E-series, HX Hot, etc.

[GolfSpy WD]

Thanks for the updates T, this is a very fun thread.

 

While I like Nike's new driver, which is a huge first for me because I rarely like Nike products, I'm calling total BS on the cavity back notion.

 

I'm guessing it's a gimmick where they use really thin metal to line the cavity and put heavier material in the middle of the sole to promote lower CoG. It probably changes the feel, but I can't see it having any practical benefit.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Concept for the Covert is the same as CB irons. Cavity allows for more weight around the perimeter (heel and toe), which equates to higher MOI and a more stable club.

 

Short version: it helps it go straight.

[Kanoito]

Concept for the Covert is the same as CB irons. Cavity allows for more weight around the perimeter (heel and toe), which equates to higher MOI and a more stable club.

 

Short version: it helps it go straight.

 

Straight is good!

Looking forward to MGS uniloft driver showdown! AMP Cell vs Covert

[GolfSpy WD]

Concept for the Covert is the same as CB irons. Cavity allows for more weight around the perimeter (heel and toe), which equates to higher MOI and a more stable club.

 

Short version: it helps it go straight.

 

In irons perimeter weighting is done because there's no other way to get the weight to the edges. Woods are hollow so their weight is already in the perimeter. They also use VFT to increase this effect. Do they have a picture of how this increases the size of the sweet spot?

[Tony Covey MGS]

Yes. Not sure I'd I have it or not.

[Super Tuna]

And

Just my opinions.

The hybrid doesn't really have much offset at all, but the paint makes it look like it does. That seems counter intuitive. Lots of hybrids do the same, but the red really makes that paint curve really pop. And that is just a 3 cent opinion.

 

Your right, and my bad for jumping on that comment.

[GolfSpy_X]

I knew this "cavity back driver design" looked somewhat similar to a patent from another company I remembered seeing. This patent application was back in 2010 by Cobra Golf.

[Matt Saternus]

Wasn't there a "Name this club" contest for that? I remembered it too, when I saw it yesterday.

[GolfSpy_X]

Yeah exactly, it was a contest Matt.

Wasn't there a "Name this club" contest for that? I remembered it too, when I saw it yesterday.

[finalist]

I knew this "cavity back driver design" looked somewhat similar to a patent from another company I remembered seeing. This patent application was back in 2010 by Cobra Golf.

 

Yeah, And didn't Callaway have a shape much the same, but with no crown covering? I have definitely seen another patent drawing of a U shaped driver head.

[Tony Covey MGS]

In irons perimeter weighting is done because there's no other way to get the weight to the edges. Woods are hollow so their weight is already in the perimeter. They also use VFT to increase this effect. Do they have a picture of how this increases the size of the sweet spot?

 

Haven't checked the flash drive yet to see what slides I do or don't have...do have a grainy image I can post if worse comes to worse.

 

The size of the sweet spot is not related to the cavity back design. Sweet spot is a bit of a misnomer, what we're actually talking about is expanding the size of the face area that is capable of providing 99% of maximum COR. This is achieved with NEXCOR (largely shaping face thickness if I remember correctly) face technology.

 

The VRS Covert is born from 3 Nike technologies:

• NexCor
• FlexLoft
• CavityBack

 

Each serves a role in making the driver perform like Nike says it does.

 

 

Regarding the cavity back design. I spoke with Tom Stites directly regarding the benefits of the Cavity Back design. He basically confirmed what I originally said. Imagine drivers were made of a soft aluminium...if you took your fingers and folded the sole, the folded area would move naturally to the perimeter and directly behind the face. Yes, woods are hollow, but they also have soles, and that's where the reallocated weight is coming from.

 

As a result of the design, what would otherwise be sole material is essentially pressed to the crown, making the the construction stiffer. Stites told me that that added stiffness prevents additional energy from being transferred from the face (where you want it) to the driver body where you don't. This is also where the improved sound and feel comes from.

 

Unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to hit the driver (damn you Nike), so I really can't say if it's everything Nike claims.

 

As far as the adjustability being what Nike wants it to be (simple while still first in class)...so far I like what I'm seeing. It's simple, and is the first to truly separate face angle and loft (it's not a ground-based technology, the effect is real even when the club is not soled).

[finalist]

Anyhow, The sole looks cool and is starting to look even cooler as the day goes on. The driver shape at address for both models is fantastic looking. The red is interesting. I think it's growing on me. Unlike TM white, Nike's red looks sporty and the swoosh is sort of modern design like in it's location -- sort of asymmetrical and offcenter.

 

 

I can't help but wonder if there are COG issues with a driver head that adjust 5°? Maybe having all that weight so close to the face helps?

[Tony Covey MGS]

A: February release date for all the woods or is there a staggered setup?

B: What's with the two 3 wood versions? One with the flex loft and the other without?

C: Hybrid lofts? It appears there's a #3 that goes from 17 to 21. Is there also a #4 that goes from say 22 to 26?

D: Any plans for a Method head (non-core) with the adjustable weights?

E: Will Nike make the flexloft adapters available to the public?

F: Will Nike make the adjustable weights for the Core putters or the Covert driver available?

G: Will it be possible, due to the adjustable weight in the Covert driver, to order it at a specific swing weight, or say standard swing weight at a shorter length?

H: Wedges?

 

A: Totally forgot to ask...dammit.

B: The "Tour" Model is adjustable the "Performance" Model is not. Brilliant bit of wordplay there by Nike going with Performance instead of Standard

C: #3 - 17-21deg. #4 21-25 deg. That's it.

D: No putter conversations/presentations

E: Adapters TBD. Some custom shops will be able to offer them. Nike is working on "Legal Safety Issues" (Same reason Titleist doesn't sell aftermarket).

F: See D:

G: No. Factory adjustment only.

H: No talk about wedges, and they're not listed in my media package. The irons have a new face technology, and that could eventually trickle into the irons.

 

Answers to questions that weren't asked:

Stock shaft in Tour model is Kuro Kage Silver. Kuro Kage Black is stock in the performance model. They feature Nike graphics, but are otherwise 100% equivalent to the aftermarket version.

There's is genuine excitement about the new golf ball lineup. Nike claims the 20XI-X came closer to crossing the USGA's overall distance test than any ball ever produced. What they tell me is that balls that will fail the ODS test generally can't pass the initial velocity test. Those that do pass, don't come close to the ODS limit...The 20XI-X did.

 

We shall again see, but Nike claims sound/feel is dramatically improved in the 2nd generation product.

 

Look for Nike to do a better job telling the story of the ball. What Nike's Mike Pai said was that while they had a great tag line around the first 20XI (Rubber was, RZN is), they didn't do a very good job of actually explaining what RZN is, and why it's better. It's not a mistake they plan on repeating.

 

Finally, my absolute favorite quote of the day.

 

Tom Stites comparing Nike's FlexLoft system to the competition: "It's the difference between a donkey and a racehorse". FYI - Nike is the racehorse.

 

 

 

[Tony Covey MGS]

Something else you guys might be interested in:

 

Nike is not F**king around. They've decided it's time to become the #1 company in golf (for serious), and the push starts this year...and yes...it does start on Tour. While nobody mentioned Rory, or Kyle Stanley, or Nick Whatney, what my sources are telling me is that what you've heard so far is only the tip of the iceberg. The Nike Tour Staff is going to increase significantly. They want their clubs in the winner's bag every week.

 

Before you convince yourself it's not possible, consider this - Nike has overtaken Adidas as the #1 brand in Soccer (or football if you prefer). To me, that actually sounds like the more daunting task. And before you start yammering about credibility, reputation, etc., consider that Nike decided they wanted to be the #1 brand in skateboarding (a world foreign to me). Despite initially being received as a bunch of posers (I think I've got the lingo down), they were able to overcome that perception, and actually become #1.

 

Now they want to do it in golf. Not saying it will happen, but while everyone is focusing on TaylorMade and Callaway, Nike is looking to pull a Zenyatta and close hard from seemingly out of nowhere. From a pure dollars and cents standpoint, who is the one company with more money than TMaG?...Yup...

 

Spending is dictated by Nike Supreme command. Golf makes its pitch every year, but the bulk of the money usually goes to Soccer &/or Basketball. This year, Nike Golf is where the Nike (in a more general sense) is allocating the bulk of their dollars.

 

The quiet fall wasn't Nike mulling over any thoughts of getting out of golf, it was Nike gearing up for a HUGE push.

[GolfSpy WD]

Something else you guys might be interested in:

 

Nike is not F**king around. They've decided it's time to become the #1 company in golf (for serious), and the push starts this year...and yes...it does start on Tour. While nobody mentioned Rory, or Kyle Stanley, or Nick Whatney, what my sources are telling me is that what you've heard so far is only the tip of the iceberg. The Nike Tour Staff is going to increase significantly. They want their clubs in the winner's bag every week.

 

Before you convince yourself it's not possible, consider this - Nike has overtaken Adidas as the #1 brand in Soccer (or football if you prefer). To me, that actually sounds like the more daunting task. And before you start yammering about credibility, reputation, etc., consider that Nike decided they wanted to be the #1 brand in skateboarding (a world foreign to me). Despite initially being received as a bunch of posers (I think I've got the lingo down), they were able to overcome that perception, and actually become #1.

 

Now they want to do it in golf. Not saying it will happen, but while everyone is focusing on TaylorMade and Callaway, Nike is looking to pull a Zenyatta and close hard from seemingly out of nowhere. From a pure dollars and cents standpoint, who is the one company with more money than TMaG?...Yup...

 

Spending is dictated by Nike Supreme command. Golf makes its pitch every year, but the bulk of the money usually goes to Soccer &/or Basketball. This year, Nike Golf is where the Nike (in a more general sense) is allocating the bulk of their dollars.

 

The quiet fall wasn't Nike mulling over any thoughts of getting out of golf, it was Nike gearing up for a HUGE push.

 

I know nothing about metric football, but if Adidas was already dinged in that sport, do you think they're going to let Nike to it again?

[Tony Covey MGS]

I know nothing about metric football, but if Adidas was already dinged in that sport, do you think they're going to let Nike to it again?

 

"Let" might not be the operative word. Nobody let Nike become #1 in football, basketball, or skateboarding. They decided they wanted to be #1, and they made it happen.

 

If we can all agree that the top of the pyramid of influence remains the PGA Tour, AND Nike follows through with what they're telling me and goes big time on Sponsorships deals with golfers who are competitive week in and week out, then, at the very least, they're positioning themselves well.

 

What I was told is they're not interested in the TaylorMade model. They don't want spread. They don't care about survey results. They want to win week in and week out.

 

Taking on TaylorMade (and winning) might seem impossible, but TaylorMade wasn't born #1. They set a goal and they achieved it. Nike has done the same several times over.

 

Empires fall all the time.

 

That said, for Nike to succeed, TaylorMade will have to make a mistake somewhere along the line. Whether that's as simple as releasing a club that doesn't perform, or not adjusting to a changing consumer (and that could include not knowing when to dial back the hype machine)...who knows. I have said countless times that TaylorMade's marketing team is the best in the industry...and it's not even close. As long as they maintain that, golfers and dollars won't matter, They'll hold on.

 

Of course, golfers have long memories, so one misstep could set TaylorMade (or Nike for that matter) back for several years. Look no further than Callaway to see how a small mistake or two can push a brand to the brink.

[apprenti23]

Met with my Nike Rep for my pre-book 2013... Sure wish I could've seen this driver (other than on the screen) he was raving about.

 

I'd LOVE for Nike to hit a home run this year in the equipment! It would definitely be great for golfers, the game, and equipment.

 

I've never bagged a Nike club for more than one round, ever. I'd like to start as I LOVE their apparel.

[Kanoito]

That is a very thorough analysis and it makes perfectly sense!

I certainly hope it becomes reality.

 

If the product is right and you got the cash to spend... this is a very smart strategy indeed.

 

Thanks for the great information broadcasting, T! Another quality job by MGS!

[ms1195]

I think this driver looks pretty sweet. Definitely a cool looking sole, and in my opinion looks like the design could definitely cut back on the hollow "tinny" sound. I also actually like the swoosh on the top. It's not overly large, pretty far back on the crown, and I don't see how it is any more distracting that Ping's so called alignment aid for their past drivers. Taylor Made has graphics all over their crown and people seem to get over that, so I'm not buying the swoosh as a distraction.

 

I am pretty excited to hit this, and it almost makes me feel bad for Cobra bc they kind of just got blown away in my mind. Their new driver still looks cool but they just got one-upped.

 

Also, awesome job on the coverage, very exciting read.