Electric Car Purchase

[GolfSpy_APH]

First major hiccup. 

Haven't been able to recharge and had to cancel my round because I didn't have enough to get to the course and then dealership. 

Tried 4 different outlets and charging centers. Different cords and nothing. 

Only good news is we were planning a longer journey today and they gave me a normal car so won't have to plan out charging locations. 

[Tim Lex]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:14 PM, George Kelley said:

I just bought a Kia EV6; and I am learning that it is  stressful finding charging stations when traveling beyond local commuting. There needs to be more non-Tesla charging stations along normal highway routes. It is grossly inadequate and often the stations you find are not working.

The more the EV industry gets the more standardized it is and thus the more comfortable it will be to drive EVs. Also hope that in the foreseeable future electric cars will be able to hit the 1000-km-mark range. This is one of the main drawbacks to stop me from buying one.

[roland49]

I'm very happy with my hybrid, Toyota Rav4. It is the second one that I've owned.
The lack of charging stations, time it takes to charge,  and limited range are all drawbacks to current all electric vehicles.

[chisag]

17 hours ago, Tim Lex said:

The more the EV industry gets the more standardized it is and thus the more comfortable it will be to drive EVs. Also hope that in the foreseeable future electric cars will be able to hit the 1000-km-mark range. This is one of the main drawbacks to stop me from buying one.

 

... Really a no brainer for me. I am semi retired and have no plans for long trips. If I do, I will just rent a car. The convenience of charging over night and waiting in line to pump gas when the temps are going to be over 110* for 30 consecutive days is very nice. No real maintenance other than tire rotation and maybe brake replacement far down the road is it's own reward. But unless you have driven an EV it is hard to appreciate how smooth, quiet, silly fast when needed and how much fun they are to drive. I could never go back to ICE. Obviously the prices need to come down with economy EV's, which of course they will and technology is always improving so range will increase. But for now I can live with my 250 miles because I haven't come anywhere near needing 1/2 of that. 

[Stuka44]

17 hours ago, Tim Lex said:

The more the EV industry gets the more standardized it is and thus the more comfortable it will be to drive EVs. Also hope that in the foreseeable future electric cars will be able to hit the 1000-km-mark range. This is one of the main drawbacks to stop me from buying one.

I concur.  I still take too many 700 or so mile trips that I don't want to have to add 3-4 hours or an entire extra day driving too.  Well I know why this was rushed, but that is besides the point, but why couldn't this EV thing have been taken a little slower.  Get ALL auto manufacturers together, and come up with a standardized battery.  This way you could pull into a battery exchange like pulling into a Jiffy Lube oil change place, on a trip, and it would exchange your depleted battery with a freshly charged one.

How is it that the different companies who make GARBAGE DISPOSALS, could get together, and EVERY garbage disposal, fits the same collar.  But for something seemingly as important as they are touted to be, NOBODY THOUGHT, Hmmm  lets think this through, and make the batteries universal.

[Hobert]

19 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Really a no brainer for me. I am semi retired and have no plans for long trips. If I do, I will just rent a car. The convenience of charging over night and waiting in line to pump gas when the temps are going to be over 110* for 30 consecutive days is very nice. No real maintenance other than tire rotation and maybe brake replacement far down the road is it's own reward. But unless you have driven an EV it is hard to appreciate how smooth, quiet, silly fast when needed and how much fun they are to drive. I could never go back to ICE. Obviously the prices need to come down with economy EV's, which of course they will and technology is always improving so range will increase. But for now I can live with my 250 miles because I haven't come anywhere near needing 1/2 of that. 

I think we are going to go EV for my wife's next car. She is a real estate agent. Does a ton of local driving, but not usually anywhere near 250 miles in a day. When we go on longer road trips, we take my truck anyway due to interior space/comfort.

[funkyjudge]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... Really a no brainer for me. I am semi retired and have no plans for long trips. If I do, I will just rent a car. The convenience of charging over night and waiting in line to pump gas when the temps are going to be over 110* for 30 consecutive days is very nice. No real maintenance other than tire rotation and maybe brake replacement far down the road is it's own reward. But unless you have driven an EV it is hard to appreciate how smooth, quiet, silly fast when needed and how much fun they are to drive. I could never go back to ICE. Obviously the prices need to come down with economy EV's, which of course they will and technology is always improving so range will increase. But for now I can live with my 250 miles because I haven't come anywhere near needing 1/2 of that. 

For me, the plug-in hybrid vehicle is ideal. I take many long trips of 365 to 650+ miles (one-way), so having a pure EV makes very little sense, particularly with the crappy vehicle charging infrastructure with more than 60% of chargers out of service at any time here in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions of the USA.  When I am driving only in my local area, I charge my vehicle nightly, if necessary, and keep it in “charging” mode while driving it. This has made it possible for me to only add gasoline once or twice a month, and the tank is generally 1/3 to 1/2 full when I top it off.

 I am only using about 1/4 to 1/5 as much gasoline as I was when I owned my ICE Volvo V60 wagon (which got 30-36 MPG), and I am fine with that. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by funkyjudge

[hbetts]

26 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

For me, the plug-in hybrid vehicle is ideal. I take many long trips of 365 to 650+ miles (one-way), so having a pure EV makes very little sense, particularly with the crappy vehicle charging infrastructure with more than 60% of chargers out of service at any time here in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions of the USA.  When I am driving only in my local area, I charge my vehicle nightly, if necessary, and keep it in “charging” mode while driving it. This has made it possible for me to only add gasoline once or twice a month, and the tank is generally 1/3 to 1/2 full when I top it off.

 I am only using about 1/4 to 1/5 as much gasoline as I was when I owned my ICE Volvo V60 wagon (which got 30-36 MPG), and I am fine with that. 

 

I agree, plug-in hybrids seem like a great stop-gap until battery infrastructure matures a bit. Unfortunately, they seem to be ignored by manufacturers for the most part. Hybrids in general seem to be stalling in terms of efficiency, especially when you're talking about trucks and suv's. Why does every manufacturer only have hybrids that get essentially the same fuel economy as the standard gas version?

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, hbetts said:

Why does every manufacturer only have hybrids that get essentially the same fuel economy as the standard gas version?

 

... Oil profits. Not sure if they are actually following through but one of the reasons I went with another Genesis is they plan to be all electric by 2025. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

It really is amazing the differences between countries and regions. 

Over the last 8 months 60% of the cars sold in Switzerland are all electric. Service areas and charge stations are stupid frequent and can start charging with a simple qr code. 

I know we are a lot smaller here (3.5 drive from top to bottom of the you try) but it's good to see this type of Progress being made!

[chisag]

31 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

It really is amazing the differences between countries and regions. 

Over the last 8 months 60% of the cars sold in Switzerland are all electric. Service areas and charge stations are stupid frequent and can start charging with a simple qr code. 

I know we are a lot smaller here (3.5 drive from top to bottom of the you try) but it's good to see this type of Progress being made!

 

... I think we both know Europe is much more progressive than the US. Take food as an example where Europeans spend twice as much on quality and nutrition while the US thinks cheap fast "food" is part of a nutritious diet. 


"US consumers spend a smaller share of their budget on groceries versus those in other countries. Last year, the share of household budgets devoted to food was 7.1% in the US; it was higher in European countries like France (15%), Spain (15%), and Italy (16.5%), according to Euromonitor International, a London-based market research firm.

[yungkory]

6 hours ago, Stuka44 said:

I concur.  I still take too many 700 or so mile trips that I don't want to have to add 3-4 hours or an entire extra day driving too.  Well I know why this was rushed, but that is besides the point, but why couldn't this EV thing have been taken a little slower.  Get ALL auto manufacturers together, and come up with a standardized battery.  This way you could pull into a battery exchange like pulling into a Jiffy Lube oil change place, on a trip, and it would exchange your depleted battery with a freshly charged one.

How is it that the different companies who make GARBAGE DISPOSALS, could get together, and EVERY garbage disposal, fits the same collar.  But for something seemingly as important as they are touted to be, NOBODY THOUGHT, Hmmm  lets think this through, and make the batteries universal.

The battery chemistry is pretty standard. Most companies are using lithium ion for their BEVs. Not sure who else is using lithium iron phosphate batteries (LFP), but Tesla has them in their "standard range" model 3. First to market with a superior product is the winner, no intelligent company is going to wait around for its competition to hop on board. Toyota actively fought against EVs -- they were trying to get hydrogen to take off. Spent way too much money lobbying against it, only to give up in the end. Other OEMs took too long as well, and that is one of the reasons Tesla has such a huge grasp of the market -- along with their production and sales models. Not sure if $200 garbage disposal analogy is comparable to the battery which makes up probably half of the cost of an EV

4 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

It really is amazing the differences between countries and regions. 

Over the last 8 months 60% of the cars sold in Switzerland are all electric. Service areas and charge stations are stupid frequent and can start charging with a simple qr code. 

I know we are a lot smaller here (3.5 drive from top to bottom of the you try) but it's good to see this type of Progress being made!

Like @chisag said, Europe is far more progressive than the states. A lot of people here are conditioned that bigger is better and drive 5.6L trucks to go buy 3 lbs. worth of groceries. Meanwhile, hot hatches and wagons/estate cars dominate the EU market.

[yungkory]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:57 AM, IslaMujeres said:

Looking forward to buy our first electric car. At the moment doesn't have an idea which one to choose

If you have any questions about ownership, a few of us on the boards went EV in the past year. Check our posts in this thread!

[Shinnman]

I went Tesla Model Y 3 years ago.  Wife got Mustang Mach-E.  Never going back to gasoline.  Yes, trips require stops for 30 min to charge, but you typically need to stretch your legs and hit the head anyway…so it’s not an inconvenience in my view.  Really they need to put solar panels on the roof and hood.

[cardia10]

I think the comparisons to Europe aren't apples to apples. Germany for example is about the size of Montana. With the population density in Europe, it is easy to pay for frequent charging stations, but in the US, small cities can't and won't pay $400K-$500K EACH for fast chargers. The lines will be astronomical and a 30 minute stop for a charge (that you pay money for) can turn to multiple hours and a tow bill. Even the FORD ceo stated how hard it was for him to drive Route 66 with some stretches becoming impossible.

Edited August 23, 2023 by cardia10

[Tim Lex]

On 8/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, Shinnman said:

I went Tesla Model Y 3 years ago.  Wife got Mustang Mach-E.  Never going back to gasoline.  Yes, trips require stops for 30 min to charge, but you typically need to stretch your legs and hit the head anyway…so it’s not an inconvenience in my view.  Really they need to put solar panels on the roof and hood.

At the moment I consider buying either Model Y or Model 3. But the latter got a serious update several days ago so I guess that will eventually take this option. The fact that you can charge the car yourself without any gas stations is very attractive, indeed.

[chisag]

42 minutes ago, Tim Lex said:

The fact that you can charge the car yourself without any gas stations is very attractive, indeed.

 

... I took delivery of my Genesis GV60 in early March. Granted Phoenix has seen record heat and the AC has been on more than normal but those two summer months aside, my utility bill is very similar to last years March/April/May/June bill. I don't drive a lot here so 3400 miles in 6 months, but with the price of gas at over $4 a gallon for regular, that's about $600 I have saved and haven't had to wait in line for gas at Costco. My Utility company offers a reduced EV rate from 11:30pm to 5:30 am and I have programed my GV60 to charge then. Just plug in after coming home from playing golf and charging doesn't start til 11:30pm and cuts off when it hits 80% which is my max setting for overnight charging to max my battery life.  

[hohjoe]

On 9/3/2023 at 3:11 PM, Tim Lex said:

At the moment I consider buying either Model Y or Model 3. But the latter got a serious update several days ago so I guess that will eventually take this option. The fact that you can charge the car yourself without any gas stations is very attractive, indeed.

I have a Model 3 and I love it. I had a Y once as a loaner and I thought it was too much like an SUV and I didn't like the way it handled. It did have a dual motor and was much faster than my standard 3.
 

The update is interesting, but I'm staying with what I have for now.

[StrokerAce]

wife wants to go all electric and has decided on the Ioniq 5

Any of you I-5 owners out there have some thoughts after having it for a while? 
She went and tested basically everything except the Tesla.

[chisag]

... @yungkory had an Ioniq 5 before trading it in for another Tesla so I am sure he has some opinions. My Genesis GV60 is based off the same platform and architecture as the I5 and after 7 months I could not be happier. I think the larger trunk of the I5 would be preferable to my GV6o but such is the price for style.   A 10 year warranty, super fast charging and free Electrify America 30 minute charging are hard to beat. I am a little bias as my last 5 cars have been GV60, G80, Genesis Coupe, Genesis Sedan and a Hyundai Sonata going back to 2009. Virtually maintenance free other than oil changes and brake replacement, but neither will be needed with an I5 since there is no engine and you have regenerative braking. 

[MattF]

34 minutes ago, chisag said:

Virtually maintenance free other than oil changes and brake replacement, but neither will be needed with an I5 since there is no engine and you have regenerative braking. 

Not exactly true in respect to brake pads. They last a hell of a long time (100,000 miles or so) but will eventually need to be replaced because they still get used to actually stop the vehicle.

[chisag]

38 minutes ago, MattF said:

Not exactly true in respect to brake pads. They last a hell of a long time (100,000 miles or so) but will eventually need to be replaced because they still get used to actually stop the vehicle.

 

... Haha very true and good point but I have put 3700 miles on my GV60 in 7 months so 100,000 miles is gonna take me about 14 years before I need new brake pads. 5 years is the longest I have ever owned any car.  

[yungkory]

On 9/14/2023 at 5:56 AM, StrokerAce said:

wife wants to go all electric and has decided on the Ioniq 5

Any of you I-5 owners out there have some thoughts after having it for a while? 
She went and tested basically everything except the Tesla.

Not sure if you pulled the trigger or not but if you have anything specific questions feel free!

You'd have a hard time convincing me to buy anything other than a Tesla in the current EV market climate. It's hard to argue or justify paying more for any of the other offerings. Non-performance Model Y coming in below or around $40k after the federal rebate, 3 even cheaper.

[Middler]

Bought a Tesla Model Y LR in November, price after tax credit was less than the 2022 Hyundai Santa Fe Hybrid it replaced. It’s early but so far the Tesla has been a more fun and rewarding car buy than any of the 18 cars I’ve owned before (including BMW, Audi, Volvo, Corvette and dozens of Japanese cars). YMMV

“Fuel” cost are down about 75% and I won’t miss oil/filter changes, radiator coolant flushes, transmission fluid replacement, engine air filters, spark plugs, fuel injectors, power steering fluid, timing belts, fuel filters, mufflers and brake pads wearing out 4 times as fast…

Edited January 14 by Middler

[chisag]

48 minutes ago, Middler said:

Bought a Tesla Model Y LR in November, price after tax credit was less than the 2022 Hyundai Santa Fe Hybrid it replaced. It’s early but so far the Tesla has been a more fun and rewarding car buy than any of the 18 cars I’ve owned before (including BMW, Audi, Volvo, Corvette and dozens of Japanese cars). YMMV

“Fuel” cost are down about 75% and I won’t miss oil/filter changes, radiator coolant flushes, transmission fluid replacement, engine air filters, spark plugs, fuel injectors, power steering fluid, timing belts, fuel filters, mufflers and brake pads wearing out 4 times as fast…

 

... Like many, I just didn't know what to expect when I bought my GV60. But it has surpassed my expectations in every way. I like your description "more fun and rewarding" because it is off the charts fun. Sooooo quiet, smooth and insanely quick. It's rewarding to have a small opening in traffic and be able to squeeze in without slowing down the car you are merging in front of. And cutting through cross traffic is a breeze. We have all experienced that slight hesitation of a gas car so a really tight window between cars going both ways can be a long wait. Sprouts, my grocery store is on a small road and I have to cross a really busy intersection of a much more traveled road in both directions and the instant and crazy quick acceleration of my EV lets me squeeze through easily. 

... Going to Costco and driving past the line lines for gas always puts a smile on my face as does just plugging it in at night once every 10 days or so and being charged to 80% when I wake up. Total charging time effort of 15 seconds plugging it in and 25 seconds of unplugging and rolling up the hose is less than one minute. Let's see someone fill up their gas car in that kinda time. I have had my GV60 for 10 months now and no maintenance needed so far. 

... The only downside is if it isn't a Tesla, long trips are not ideal. But I have no immediate plans for a trip and would probably rent a car if I did. 

[Preeway]

The primary thing stopping me from making an EV purchase is the inability to make longer road trips without knowing where I would charge. Perhaps once we don’t have kids and out of town tournaments are no longer a thing I can get serious about a different car. And hopefully by then charging stations will be more plentiful and batteries will have a longer life span. 

[bens197]

I would love an EV but I'm just not ready quite yet.  My brother and his wife own a Tesla and a Rivian.  After driving the Rivian I wanted to buy one that day...then I saw the price.

Car prices are just too expensive to justify the total cost.  I hope that changes.

[chisag]

Just now, bens197 said:

I would love an EV but I'm just not ready quite yet.  My brother and his wife own a Tesla and a Rivian.  After driving the Rivian I wanted to buy one that day...then I saw the price.

Car prices are just too expensive to justify the total cost.  I hope that changes.

 

... Haha that's how I felt the first time I test drove a Mustang Mach E. But they have to come down with pricing. They are just way too expensive for the average car buyer. Luxury brands pretty much had a waiting list and at least here in Phoenix a $10k "market adjustment". I had never paid full sticker let alone an additional $10k so I waited. But the initial rush for early EV adaptors is long gone and now they are giving incentives so the same car can be purchased for up to $20k less than just a year ago. Some luxury EV's are sitting on the lot for over 120 days.

... Luxury buyers will pay whatever it takes to a point, but if EV's want to be successful in the long run, they will have to make non luxury SUV's more affordable. And I'm not talking a cheap economy EV, just a nice car/SUV/Pick up with the same kind bells and whistles as a gas car but in the 30-39k range and economy EV's for $29k or less. 

[Middler]

54 minutes ago, Preeway said:

The primary thing stopping me from making an EV purchase is the inability to make longer road trips without knowing where I would charge. Perhaps once we don’t have kids and out of town tournaments are no longer a thing I can get serious about a different car. And hopefully by then charging stations will be more plentiful and batteries will have a longer life span. 

For Tesla at least, that’s all done for you.

The Tesla trip planner shows you exactly where the Tesla chargers you’ll want to stop at are, along with (in car) what level of charge you’ll arrive at (e.g. 20%), what level you need to charge to (e.g. 70%), and how long it will take. It can also show you lower level chargers along the way if you want. Random example below. https://www.tesla.com/trips

There are also third party route planners that show you the same, plus other brand chargers, along the way. A Better Route Planner is the most popular I know of. Some even show how many stalls are in use vs open.  https://abetterrouteplanner.com
 

They’re free to try, you’ll be surprised how easy it is.

Edited January 14 by Middler

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

For Tesla at least, that’s all done for you.

The Tesla trip planner shows you exactly where the Tesla chargers you’ll want to stop at are, along with (in car) what level of charge you’ll arrive at (e.g. 20%), what level you need to charge to (e.g. 70%), and how long it will take. It can also show you lower level chargers along the way if you want. Random example below. https://www.tesla.com/trips

There are also third party route planners that show you the same, plus other brand chargers, along the way. A Better Route Planner is the most popular I know of. Some even show how many stalls are in use vs open.  https://abetterrouteplanner.com
 

They’re free to try, you’ll be surprised how easy it is.

 

... Other EV's including my Genesis does the same but they don't have the excellent and plentiful Charging Network Tesla has. I would not hesitate to take a road trip trip in a Tesla but my GV60 not so much. 260 range around town but I suspect more like 230 on the highway. It's just amazing how driving 70 or faster really eats up the battery. 

Edited January 14 by chisag