Is It Time to Upgrade Your Drivr? What route would you take?

[IONEPUTT]

Like most golfers, every now and then I think it would be nice to get a new driver to play with. The way I see it, there are 3 routes one can take to upgrade the driver. The first and most obvious way is the buy a brand-new driver of the latest design. The second way is to buy a used model, maybe one or two yeats old. And the third way would be to get a new shaft for your current driver, which is pretty easy to do with all the recent drivers designs that allow for easy shaft replacement. 

What route would you take if you were to upgrade your driver? And why would you go that route? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Get fit so that the best combo for me is in my hands. 
 

Too many variables in buying used 

Won’t dive into the buying a new shaft as that has been hashed out way too many times already that the shaft unless already a bad fit isn’t going to improve anything 

[IONEPUTT]

Can you tell me what variables you a speaking of? I don't know of any that are not there when buying used that are not also there when buying new. Only one I can think of is the condition of the driver. What others are there? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, IONEPUTT said:

Can you tell me what variables you a speaking of? I don't know of any that are not there when buying used that are not also there when buying new. Only one I can think of is the condition of the driver. What others are there? 

condition of the club and shaft

finding the right shaft/head combo. Not all heads are equal for several reasons. Manufacturing tolerances could have a 9.5° head anywhere from 8°-11° (granted this will be there for all heads) but that has an effect on launch characteristics. Not all heads of the same lofts are the same across brands. Hard to know if a cobra 9.5° will spin too much, not enough or just right compared to another brand. Not as easy to demo/self fit as a new head

Buying new only real variable is what actual loft of the head is but when fit you can know what the rough estimate will be for launch characteristics and can make loft adjustments if needed(so far never has to do this)

Other thing to consider is with the new setup you have warranty replacement.

 

[IONEPUTT]

I do NOT see anything you mention that is not present with a brand new driver, so no real difference from what you just posted. And let's not forget that a lot of golfers DEMO a driver in a local store, only to BUY a new driver online at a cheaper price. Golfers do this all the time as a way to demo and save money on the same purchase. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

52 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

I do NOT see anything you mention that is not present with a brand new driver, so no real difference from what you just posted. And let's not forget that a lot of golfers DEMO a driver in a local store, only to BUY a new driver online at a cheaper price. Golfers do this all the time as a way to demo and save money on the same purchase. 

Yup I can demo a new club and buy it online with the same shaft and loft that I demo’d. Only variable is the actual loft of the driver I demo’d could be different but the +/- 1.5° I mentioned earlier. But what I know is the launch characteristics of the head. So if I see something different in the head I ordered I can adjust the settings to get back to what I had in my demo. Or if I did a fitting.

You can’t demo an older club so you have no idea whether the launch characteristics of the loft you order for you or not. Yes you can tweak them but it’s more of a guessing game.

Again with older heads you may not be able to find the loft, head and shaft you want and would have to try and piece it together. 
 

With new I also get to see if I like the looks, sound, feel and performance. I get to see how different shafts perform in the head. I get to mess with adapter settings before I buy to see if adjustments make it any different. 
 

Unless there’s just a new driver I want to try to see if it matches the hype I don’t buy without testing on at least a couple days if I’m self fitting or during a fitting with a good fitter

[IONEPUTT]

You cold do the exact same things with a used driver at any local store that sells golf clubs and has a launch monitor to hit the club on. NO need to buy new, you can DEMO used clubs just as easily. Samd goes for trying different shafts, since most golf stores have more than one of the drivers you might be interested in. Grab 2or 3 and switch shafts between heads and demo all you want. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Although you can in some cases demo used clubs the selection is often far less (especially if you are a lefty like me) add in there are many shops that don't love guys or gals just going in to demo a bunch of random clubs for free and doing all that. 

New shaft can be so hard to do properly, not to mention for those that do not have club building experience or a place to do such can have a hard time finding a shaft with the right adaptor. 

Yes those are three different ways, however it really comes down to 2. New or used. More to that it comes down to how much someone is willing to spend. If they simply don't care then they will usually buy new. If on more of a budget then used will likely be the route. Pretty simple. 

New is definitely more reliable as a whole unless you find that magic fit with used and for many they will go through several drivers before finding it.

[cnosil]

I hit all the new drivers and if there is anything I like I compare against my current driver and see if it performs better.    If it performs better I note the head and shaft and then will wait until a used one shows up at my local store or buy when it is on close out.   Replacing the shaft isn’t a new driver and potentially means you didn’t have the right driver in the first place.   

Generally I don’t replace driver that often even if there might be a better one.  I’d rather spend my money on putters and trying different ones.  

[IONEPUTT]

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

I hit all the new drivers and if there is anything I like I compare against my current driver and see if it performs better.    If it performs better I note the head and shaft and then will wait until a used one shows up at my local store or buy when it is on close out.   Replacing the shaft isn’t a new driver and potentially means you didn’t have the right driver in the first place.   

Generally I don’t replace driver that often even if there might be a better one.  I’d rather spend my money on putters and trying different ones.  

I like your plan of action on this cnosil, You demo some clubs, then if you find one you want to buy, you wait until they go on sale or you find a used one. Great way to get what you want and save money in the process.  You mentioned that a "new shaft", is NOT a new driver, Quite true, But if you look at the title of this thread you will notice it is called "Upgrading" your driver, NOT buying a new one. I did that for a reason, and it was so replacing the current shaft in a driver could fit into the discussion. Of the 3 options, I lean toward getting a new shaft IF you have a good driver head that was made in the last 4 or 5 years to work with. Most all new drivers today have adjustable hosel designs, so changing the shaft is as easy as un-screwing the old shaft and installing a new owe. There are two good reasons I do "not" buy new drivers, One is the price they want for them these days, I'm just not paying out $500 to $600 for a new driver that is at best 1 or 2 percent better than what I have. The USGA put a limit on how HOT the face of a club can be, so the fact is that all drivers built in the last 20 or so years can NOT be built any hotter so ball speed for a given club head speed is NOT going to go up, It can't and still be a conforming driver. The small improvement in driver perfromance is only in how forgiving the club might be for off center hits. 

And if I may, I'd like to point out something I read in an e-mail I got from MGS about how the shafts that come in todays high dollar driver are "not" one of those $250to $350 shafts the shaft companies are selling today. They are in fact rather cheap low end quality shafts that the factory gets from the "lowest" bidder. From my point of view, when a golfer buys a new $500-$600 driver, they are getting a new head with a cheap shaft that is not all that great. My experience from building clubs for almost 20 years is that a golfer would be much better off to spend the money on a good high quality shaft and keep the head they have.  Especially when a good quality shaft can be purchased for well under $100. 

[null]

Simple. I’d get fit a True Spec

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

I lean toward getting a new shaft IF you have a good driver head that was made in the last 4 or 5 years to work with. Most all new drivers today have adjustable hosel designs, so changing the shaft is as easy as un-screwing the old shaft and installing a new owe. 

My experience from building clubs for almost 20 years is that a golfer would be much better off to spend the money on a good high quality shaft and keep the head they have.  

With a properly fit driver, I have not found significant improvements by changing a shaft; most performance improvements seem to come from the head design.  I realize that you can easily change a shaft.   As I stated and IMO, changing a shaft does not equate to a driver upgrade. 
 

if you have a shaft/head combo that works for you and provides the best performance, you don’t need to upgrade the shaft, why buy and expensive shaft when a driver works and performs.   It doesn’t matter whether a shaft costs $5 or $500  it is about how it perform for the player.  If I follow your approach and buy a “high quality shaft”, why do I need another “high quality shaft” 3-5 years later?   

[IONEPUTT]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

With a properly fit driver, I have not found significant improvements by changing a shaft; most performance improvements seem to come from the head design.  I realize that you can easily change a shaft.   As I stated and IMO, changing a shaft does not equate to a driver upgrade. 
 

if you have a shaft/head combo that works for you and provides the best performance, you don’t need to upgrade the shaft, why buy and expensive shaft when a driver works and performs.   It doesn’t matter whether a shaft costs $5 or $500  it is about how it perform for the player.  If I follow your approach and buy a “high quality shaft”, why do I need another “high quality shaft” 3-5 years later?   

You would NOT need a new shaft a few years later, and I never said you did or would. Going by your posts, I think that my experience with shafts is a lot different than yours.  Unlike you, I find that I see the most improvement in driver performance by installing a properly aligned shaft than I do with changing the head. When I was having a driver fitting 2 years ago we used the then new Ping G400 Max head. I really liked the head as it was pretty easy to hit and with the right shaft I was hitting 80% of the fairways with it. My current driver at the time was about 15 years old, and a much less forgiving design, but with the high quality shaft i had in the head, I was hitting it just as far and hitting 75% of the fairways.  The Ping G400 Max at the time was selling for around $500 or so, and the shaft I was fit for was another $500 plus the cost of the tip adapter plus labor if I wanted to have the fitter do the install. I just cound not see a good reason to spend over $1000 for a new driver and shaft combo to gain the small 5%  more fairways hit. In the end, I decided to buy a two year old Callaway driver and I then was able to try a few high quality shafts for a lot less money. I ended up with an even better fit with the used driver and shaft combo and saved over $750. While my route to upgrading my driver may not be for everyone, I sure works for me and my back account is a lot bigger as well. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Deleted. Decided I don’t wanna waste my time anymore. Back to the gutter I go

[null]

2 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

You would NOT need a new shaft a few years later, and I never said you did or would. Going by your posts, I think that my experience with shafts is a lot different than yours.  Unlike you, I find that I see the most improvement in driver performance by installing a properly aligned shaft than I do with changing the head. When I was having a driver fitting 2 years ago we used the then new Ping G400 Max head. I really liked the head as it was pretty easy to hit and with the right shaft I was hitting 80% of the fairways with it. My current driver at the time was about 15 years old, and a much less forgiving design, but with the high quality shaft i had in the head, I was hitting it just as far and hitting 75% of the fairways.  The Ping G400 Max at the time was selling for around $500 or so, and the shaft I was fit for was another $500 plus the cost of the tip adapter plus labor if I wanted to have the fitter do the install. I just cound not see a good reason to spend over $1000 for a new driver and shaft combo to gain the small 5%  more fairways hit. In the end, I decided to buy a two year old Callaway driver and I then was able to try a few high quality shafts for a lot less money. I ended up with an even better fit with the used driver and shaft combo and saved over $750. While my route to upgrading my driver may not be for everyone, I sure works for me and my back account is a lot bigger as well. 

80% fairways!?!

lolololololol

[IONEPUTT]

1 hour ago, jlukes said:

80% fairways!?!

lolololololol

I take it that is your way of saying you don't believe me??? That's fine with me, but it was what the Trackman data was showing when I hit the Ping G400 Max driver with a low torque X flex shaft that was priced at $500 a stick. Believe what you like it doesn't matter to me one way or another. 

[Bobbers]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:23 PM, IONEPUTT said:

Like most golfers, every now and then I think it would be nice to get a new driver to play with. The way I see it, there are 3 routes one can take to upgrade the driver. The first and most obvious way is the buy a brand-new driver of the latest design. The second way is to buy a used model, maybe one or two yeats old. And the third way would be to get a new shaft for your current driver, which is pretty easy to do with all the recent drivers designs that allow for easy shaft replacement. 

What route would you take if you were to upgrade your driver? And why would you go that route? 

With all due respect, you appear to ask a question but you aren't really asking a question.  You have a point of view, a process for what you describe as "upgrading" your driver that works for you.  That's great.  But then it appears, at least to my eye, that you insist on disagreeing with anyone and everyone who has a different point of view, i.e. who has a different "answer" to the question you posed.

Wouldn't it make more sense to say "here's how I do x, I hope some of you find it informative and useful"?  And simply leave the hook out of the bait?

When I have success with something I'll post it, explain it as best I can and answer any well intentioned questions.  Some people read the thread, some don't.  Some react, some don't.  Some have questions, some don't.  Makes for a simple, stress free interaction with the community.

Just a thought.

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

Deleted. Decided I don’t wanna waste my time anymore. Back to the gutter I go

It’s why I stopped. 

[null]

1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

I take it that is your way of saying you don't believe me??? That's fine with me, but it was what the Trackman data was showing when I hit the Ping G400 Max driver with a low torque X flex shaft that was priced at $500 a stick. Believe what you like it doesn't matter to me one way or another. 

Oh you meant during your fitting. Not actually on the course 

[Middler]

No right answer, but I’d rather have all new so I just replace every 5 years or so. I also have strong brand preferences - Titleist, Mizuno irons, Ping mostly. TM never.

I’ll be replacing my 2018 Callaway Rogue (never really liked it) with a TSR2 (unless they suggest another TSR) this Fall. I’ll get fit at TrueSpec with a stock shaft. Will replace driver, 3W and 3H.

I got fit for a new driver shaft at Club Champion in 2020, and it was a total bust — waste of $450. My consistency decreased (sole objective) and distance didn’t change at all, ended up selling the shaft they recommended for less than 20 cents on the dollar on eBay.

YMMV

I’ll probably replace my irons and wedges this Fall as well once I see what Mizuno does with the JPX923 line.

[Chester3488]

On 8/11/2022 at 1:23 PM, IONEPUTT said:

Like most golfers, every now and then I think it would be nice to get a new driver to play with. The way I see it, there are 3 routes one can take to upgrade the driver. The first and most obvious way is the buy a brand-new driver of the latest design. The second way is to buy a used model, maybe one or two yeats old. And the third way would be to get a new shaft for your current driver, which is pretty easy to do with all the recent drivers designs that allow for easy shaft replacement. 

What route would you take if you were to upgrade your driver? And why would you go that route? 

New drivers are always fun. I like shiny things. 

Having said that, the best way to improve is usually getting with the right swing coach. 

I know this has been hashed out a million times, but IMO the shaft will help/hurt the feel of the driver far more than help/hurt the performance of the driver. 

Here's an interesting experiment for you. Use Arccos or Shot Scope or what ever stat tracking app/software you like. Then after a season, get fit for the latest and greatest new driver. I'll be you dimes to donuts that your driving stats change very little. ... Unless, you are taking lessons. 

Unless your driver is more than a decade old. There may be small gains to be had by upgrading. Certainly if you are badly fit, getting properly fit will help. But if you were well fit into something fairly recently, the only true gains will come from improving your swing, not upgrading the driver... especially if you just upgrade the shaft. 

Here's a case in point. My playing partner and I were both fit into a PING G30 back in 2014. He and I both use Shot Scope to track our games. This season he got fit into the PING G425. (I've switched drivers 3 times since 2014... I like shiny things.) Anyhow, comparing his stats from this year (brand new driver) to last year's (7 year old driver), there's a bit of a difference. But not significant in either accuracy, distance or strokes gained. Maybe 3 yards of distance. But its hard to see that on the course. Strokes gained are less than +0.1 strokes. When we play he is still trying to clear the same bunkers off the tee. He's still trying to hit the same start lines on the same holes. He still has some great drives and some ... not so great. 

Anyhow, if you want a new driver, GET A NEW DRIVER. I can't talk. I've had 4 drivers in the last 8 years. I love getting a new driver. (Once more, I like shiny things.) If you think it will significantly change your game. ... It may, if your old driver was a bad fit for you. Otherwise, spending time trying out swing coaches until you find the right one will pay significantly better dividends then trying out drivers until you find the right one. 

Good luck and let us know how it all comes out. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

Would be interested in recommendations on how to proceed with getting fit for a new driver myself, actually.

I currently game a Honma TR20, with a Ventus Blue 6s.  In calling the local shops around here, nobody can put me in a demo head with that shaft...only the stock options are available to try.  I did see discernible increases in distance and accuracy when I upgraded from the stock Honma Vizard shaft to the Ventus; in other words I know it's a good fit for me (recent losses in speed that I am slowly getting back aside).

So, could I reasonably assume that a local shop could fit me into the best head for me based on the stock shaft offerings, and then I'd order that head with the upgrade to the Blue 6s?  Or, do I need to bite the bullet and drive 90 minutes to the nearest Club Champion to try the Ventus in the heads, or maybe even see if Ventus TR is appropriate?

I'm guessing the latter is probably the way to go, but I've also heard less than positive reviews on Club Champion.

Thoughts?

[RickyBobby_PR]

28 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Would be interested in recommendations on how to proceed with getting fit for a new driver myself, actually.

I currently game a Honma TR20, with a Ventus Blue 6s.  In calling the local shops around here, nobody can put me in a demo head with that shaft...only the stock options are available to try.  I did see discernible increases in distance and accuracy when I upgraded from the stock Honma Vizard shaft to the Ventus; in other words I know it's a good fit for me (recent losses in speed that I am slowly getting back aside).

So, could I reasonably assume that a local shop could fit me into the best head for me based on the stock shaft offerings, and then I'd order that head with the upgrade to the Blue 6s?  Or, do I need to bite the bullet and drive 90 minutes to the nearest Club Champion to try the Ventus in the heads, or maybe even see if Ventus TR is appropriate?

I'm guessing the latter is probably the way to go, but I've also heard less than positive reviews on Club Champion.

Thoughts?

Find a demo day in your area. All the reps should have the full matrix of shafts that their brand offers which includes all the upcharge shafts.

Go to a place like club champion, TruSpec, cool clubs or go to Canada and visit txg.

Also keep in mind that while it was a good fit for you in the honma head compared to the homma shaft it may not be as good of a fit in other brands if it throws off the feel or balance of the club and that change causes you to swing different. So if you are looking to actually get fit for a new driver it’s best to go into a fitting with and open mind and let the numbers and how a head/shaft combo feel.

 

[BMDubya]

Definitely go through a fitting. Did this about 5-6yrs ago, and still play the same shaft as what I was fitted for then. Imo, once you’re fitted for the shaft, the head is all plug & play. I played a TM M2 tour issue head, with a proforce v2 shaft going into the fitting. The shaft was a stout, 1.8 torque & 87g. Got fitted into a HZRDUS t1100, 6.5, 75g, tipped 1.25”. My big miss was always left, so I always liked low torque shafts to try & combat the left miss. But once they fit me into this, I gained a few yards due to swinging a shaft 12g lighter. With the TM tour issue head having an open face angle, that of course helped out as well. I cracked that driver head in 19, and ended up with a Cally Epic Flash Triple Diamond head. Same loft as my TM, and all I did was swap tips out. Still playing this combo today, and the distance & the accuracy are still there. Seems like most fitting establishments, run specials throughout the winter months. Most offer specific fittings also. Imo, this would be where your money would be best spent! A lot of valuable information you will receive, that will hopefully take your golf game where you want it  

 

[Sluggo42]

I just scour eBay for the cheapest mavric I can find on whatever shaft comes with it, then I just adjust my swing to the new setup- prolly 90% of fairways … might not be the fairway for the hole I’m on, but who cares, works for me…

[Kenneth Goltz]

I've usually bought closeout drivers...usually one to two model years old.  I'm looking at the PXG driver for my next big stick--but it would be the 0211 'Cheap" PXG driver...and I'll probably get refitted.  I was told to get a 10.5 degree A Flex the last  time I looked at new drivers...

[CaptStang]

I had purchased a PXG Driver last year on a personal choice basis...last fall I was in Dallas when they opened their first retail store with fitting areas. I explained what my current driver was doing and agreed to do a fitting...I ended up with a different loft, and a completely different shaft...and the change was like night and day...different ball flight, longer carry and much straighter results. Yes, I paid up for the upgraded shaft but it resolved many issues. So. I would be a supporter of getting fit for a new driver at an authorized fitting site where you can try multiple combinations...long run-it is worth the extra $$ IMO.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, BMDubya said:

once you’re fitted for the shaft, the head is all plug & play. I played a TM M2 tour issue head, with a proforce v2 shaft going into the fitting.

Unfortunately on golf there are no absolutes and a shaft that works in one head may not work in another as a plug n play because it throws off the weighting and balance which for some that will negatively affect their swing.

1 hour ago, BMDubya said:

I always liked low torque shafts to try & combat the left miss.

Toque these days are about creating a feel and not for left to right dispersion. Typically a low torque shaft is going to be stiffer profile and it’s the ei profile combined with the weight and how it works with your swing that improves the dispersion

[ChuckZ]

First I would not go out and buy one off the shelf.  I would head to a certified fitter that I know, trust and have in mind a brand that I am interested in.  I would take my old driver as well as the golf ball that I play with me for the fitting, if it is inside.   Me, I prefer Titleist drivers, so normally Titleist golf balls are provided, whether the fitting is inside or outside.  I have played and been fitted for their drivers since 2010 and have had great results, with accuracy and distance.  I have had gains with each fitting.  I use two fitters in my area (am lucky) both have over thirty years as fitters.  One does outside and the other inside.  All depends on who I can get the earliest appointment with.  Approaching 76 years, my numbers have not changed much lately.  Am lucky this year, Titleist will be demoing the new TSR drivers when I go to Streamsong Resort in Bowling Green, FL in about seven weeks for the Annual Team Titleist Invitational.  We will be there for four days to play some golf on the Blue, Red, Black, The Chain (9 hole par 3) courses, demo some products and enjoy great fellowship with golfers from all over the world. 

BOTTOM line.  Go get fitted.  Do it right the first time by getting the right head and shaft.