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Driver fitting at PGA Tour Superstore: Free vs. Paid


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On 1/18/2024 at 10:15 AM, berkeleybob said:

Heyo!

I’ve never had a formal fitting. I’m traveling out to California in a couple weeks, and I thought I’d drop by a PGA Tour Superstore and schedule a 75-minute paid-driver fitting to see if my current driver, Ping G410 Plus, can be better tailored to me, or if there’s a different driver to consider. I called up the store to tell them my plans, and the fella on the phone suggested/recommended that instead I can come into the store with my driver tweaked with a free fitting that lasts about 20 minutes max, where I can also try other drivers as well.

I’m not sure which is the better route to take. What do you think?

Before I did my fitting for all new clubs except for a driver, I spent considerable time researching and multiple trips to 2 pgatss, as well as some free fitting days at my club with visiting oems.  This gave me a good baseline of what I liked in terms of feel and numbers.

Then I paid for a local fitting by a brand agnostic fitter.  Oh, I took 2 lessons from him before the fitting so he could get a general idea of my quirks and flaws.  

So, I’d recommend you visit the pgatss and do the free sessions just so you can get a general idea of what feels good or not.  They’ll also email your results if you ask them to.  Then decide the best route for you regarding the paid fitting.  What I really liked with my fitting is that it wasn’t a one session event.  First session was irons, later we did hybrid/woods, later we did wedges.  Since you are only looking for a driver, that probably isn’t an issue. I did end up hitting my current driver then hit the Ping G430 max and got identical numbers. 
 

Edited by GaryF

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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  • 2 weeks later...

Berkleybob, if you are in Bakersfield I highly suggest avoiding DSG. All of their clubs are locked on the rack and although the kids working there are golfers, I wouldn’t trust them with a fitting. Go to to the pro at Sundale Country Club, he is really good and he actually owns the pro shop so he might work with you on pricing. I also know a few guys who have been fit at Stockdale CC and Bakersfield CC who were really happy with their experience.

Driver: Cobra AeroJet 9* @ 7.5* PX Hazardous Black 5.5

3 wood: Titleist 915f @ 14.25* MCA Diamana Blue R

Hybrids: Callaway Apex 17* and 21* Srixon ZX 23* driving iron

Irons: Mizuno Pro 223 5-PW Nippon Modus Pro 105R

Wedges: Ping Glide 4.0 52/10, 56/14, 60/14 Nippon 115

Putter: EVNROLL ER 2.2

Ball: Wilson Triad

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Thanks, @Cshane12. Yep, DSG golf folks are nice enough, but the fitting bay don’t quite exude confidence. I usually go there for golf balls and other small things.

@GaryF great comment. I sorta discovered that this past week. I’m writing an update of my experience and I’ll post it here, probably this weekend or so.

WITB 2024

DRIVER Cobralogo.png.5257fd97d99f057b9bfc81c06d7fcc62.png AEROJET 10.5°  |  FAIRWAY Callawaylogo.png.c084288fc4a8ed17e2f93c60b519702c.png ROGUE ST MAX 3/15°
HYBRID Pinglogo.png.11947cc88c8641d62e0a99c26da08b18.png G410 21°  |  UTILITY Untitled-9(1).png.4964fe6cb2103eef562fd832a625b0d5.png 699 V2 U 5/23°
IRONS Untitled-9(1).png.4964fe6cb2103eef562fd832a625b0d5.png 699 V2 6-PW
WEDGES Clevelandgolflogo.png.9b2e702587cd5230010a835ced0f97a0.png CBX 2 50°, 54°, 58°
PUTTER Cobralogo.png.5257fd97d99f057b9bfc81c06d7fcc62.png KING GRANDSPORT 35

BALL WilsonStafflogo.png.d0d70a74fad1e8f9c4d9f0581e24d31e.pngMODEL | Vicelogo.png.ac8ca0040252d91a9cdaef9d94e6284b.png PRO WHITE/BLUE ICE
BAG Sunmountainlogo.png.2555e0c0e8e49c09ea72c6df224aa0f2.png 3.5 LS  |  PUSHCART Roviclogo.png.ebc800ac4238271b0253c238793522de.png RV1S

2024 Fit For Golf Training App Review

 

 

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Word of advise. These fittings are better than not getting one but shaft length is rarely brought up, so bring it up. Just an FYI. Rahm is 6'2" and plays a 43" Driver shaft. Do you know how long yours is? Probably over 46". If the shaft is too long it could be why you are standing up at impact and spraying balls rt & lt. So try different length shafts too. 

Edited by JoeGillis

Gitrdun

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24 minutes ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked. I gather that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to play with that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers.

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

IMG_20240210_235337.png.aede66476125a2364296b454497a8bce.png

The mighty AEROJET Mjölnir!

WITB

Driver:  :taylormade-small: Qi10 Max

Hybrid: 🐏 FX Max 5h

5i-9i: 🐏 FX Max 10

Wedges: :titleist-small: 48°, 52°, 56°

Putter:  :cleveland-small: HB Soft 14

Ball: :odin:

 

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4 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to play with that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

Congrats on the new driver!  

:callaway-small: Paradym TD Driver w/ Ventus Blue 6S

:ping-small: 3W

:srixon-small: MKII ZX 5's (4-6) w/ KBS Tour V

:srixon-small: MKII ZX 7's (7-PW) w/ KBS Tour V

:titleist-small: Vokey Wedges 50* 54* 58*

:L.A.B.: DF2.1 Putter

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5 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to play with that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

Outstanding the read and see you go ta new driver

Callaway Paradym AI Smoke Max 9* with Tensei AV Blue 55

PXG 5 and 7 woods with Mitsubishi Diamana Shafts

Mizuno Pro 225 5-GW with Dynamic Gold S300 shafts

Taylormade Hi-Toe 54 and 58 degree wedges

Ping Prime Tyne 4

 

 

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6 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to tweak that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

 Brilliant! Very well done. A thoroughly entertaining read and I’m glad you’ve found a keeper. When i was recently trying out driver shafts, the Kai Li white 70X was a finalist and serious contender for selection. I’ll be following along to see how this journey progresses.

WITB:

D: :ping-small: G430 Max 10k ping 2.0 65s

3w: :taylormade-small: Brnr mini driver 13.5 Kai Li White 70x

3h: :ping-small: G430 19° Tour 2/Stiff

7W: :callaway-small: 21° Rogue ST Max LinQ 7X

5i-7i:  :titleist-small: T200 recoil 110 s

7i-PW: :titleist-small: T150 recoil 110 s

52°, 56° & 60°: Kirkland V2 

P:   :cameron-small: Special Select Del Mar

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: Tour BX mindset

Bag:  Ghost MGS Anyday 14 way

"And so, we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaselessly into the past." - Fitzgerald

” The woods are lovely, dark and deep,   

But I have promises to keep,   

And miles to go before I sleep,   

And miles to go before I sleep. - Frost

"That you are here—that life exists and identity,

That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse." - Whitman

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Yeah yeah, congrats on the driver.  Hooray...

 

I want to know how many books you have published and where to find them to read!  I was truly entertained and engaged on your journey!

WITB-Foremost 551's - 3w, 5w, 5-SW (circa 1998), Top Flite 460cc Driver, Adam's 7w, Warrior GW and 60⁰, Odyssey AI-One DB putter.

Just an old newbie golfer, trying to learn and improve 1 club at a time.

 

 

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8 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to tweak that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

Very nice write up!  You seemed to enjoy the process and journey as much as I did during my search.  I know in my case doing my own research and trying various combinations gave me a sense of satisfaction rather than succumbing to the marketing myths and hype.  By the time I got to my actual fitting, I believe I was better prepared to give feedback, etc.  My driver is 6-7 yo now and I’ll likely start the replacement process with a target of around 2 years as I love my Fusion but did break the shaft at the adapter (was fixable) last summer. 

Just curious, what is the magic number with respect to carry distance you hope to achieve?  Two years ago I had a similar 89-92 SS, then a year ago worked hard on conditioning, flexibility and core strength.  While getting fit last spring, my SS was measured at 95 with my current driver and Ping G430 Max, with carry 215-220. 
 

 

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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9 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to tweak that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

What a fantastic read. Well Done!   Thanks for taking us along on your journey. Those LM’s can be real smartasss can’t they?  Always beating us over the head with facts! 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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Awesome! Congrats on the new driver. I’ve been thinking about trying a fitting at Dick’s Sporting Goods just to try out a few different  drivers and shafts and compare against my current gamer, but haven’t gone through with it yet. 

Golfing for fun. 

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12 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to tweak that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

All advice I gave was for RIGHT handers, sorry, throw everything I said previously out the window.😁

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2 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

The target numbers that you had in mind (13-16 degrees of launch, mid-2000s in backspin and 240-250 yards total distance … at least, I am assuming total distance and not carry distance at your clubhead speed range) are very much appropriate. In fact, if the spin numbers stay below 2,500 RPM you should seek the higher launch angle of about 16 degrees. With that type of backspin, you’ll get more carry distance with 16* of launch rather than 13*, all other factors being equal.  However, if your backspin rate creeps up much above 2,600 to 2,700 RPM, you open up the potential for “ballooning” in your tee shots with the higher launch angle.

I am guessing that you new “magic numbers” for well-struck drives are somewhere around 15-16  degree launch angle, 2,250 RPM backspin, and maybe 230 yards of carry distance (you may be able to get to 240-245 yards of carry on “perfect” strikes, but everything is going to need to be darned near perfect, including club path, face angle at impact, proper upward angle of attack, etc.

Interesting comments you had fir BB - I’ll have to experiment some.  When I tested my driver with foresight last spring, I was measured at 95.2 SS, 134 ball speed, 13.1* launch. 2253 backspin, Peak height 75’ with a carry of 218 and 244 total.  I think I was a offline to the left tho but not sure that was all due to sidespin or my aim point was left too.  My driver is 9* and set at +1.   So maybe I should try another +1 loft?  Getting 230 carry would be amazing but just doesn’t seem possible.  

Edited by GaryF

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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13 minutes ago, GaryF said:

Interesting comments you had fir BB - I’ll have to experiment some.  When I tested my driver with foresight last spring, I was measured at 95.2 SS, 134 ball speed, 13.1* launch. 2253 backspin, Peak height 75’ with a carry of 218 and 244 total.  I think I was a offline to the left tho but not sure that was all due to sidespin or my aim point was left too.  My driver is 9* and set at +1.   So maybe I should try another +1 loft?  Getting 230 carry would be amazing but just doesn’t seem possible.  

 

... Optimize your spin and trajectory with a positive AoA and I think you can. I know my drives are best around 2600rpm with my +4 AoA. My normal carry is 225-230 and I swing at 95mph or slightly less. The last number on this Trackman chart reflects those numbers. 





Screenshot2024-02-11at2_20_22PM.png.475805ecb228458d93b4ab26c723389b.png 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:    Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405
Fairway:  :taylormade-small:    Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:        G430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r  
Irons:       :titleist-small:           '23 T200 4-9i ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small:     MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:    Sport-60 33" 
Ball:          :taylormade-small:     '24 TP5x 

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10 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Optimize your spin and trajectory with a positive AoA and I think you can. I know my drives are best around 2600rpm with my +4 AoA. My normal carry is 225-230 and I swing at 95mph or slightly less. The last number on this Trackman chart reflects those numbers. 





Screenshot2024-02-11at2_20_22PM.png.475805ecb228458d93b4ab26c723389b.png 

Thanks, that’s good to know and I’ll save this chart.  I must be around the 95/0 line (but with lower spin) in the chart and see if I can get a higher launch.  I was just kind of assuming I’m maxed out. And maybe with a newer driver with proper shaft I can increase ball speed. 

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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3 minutes ago, GaryF said:

Thanks, that’s good to know and I’ll save this chart.  I must be around the 95/0 line (but with lower spin) in the chart and see if I can get a higher launch.  I was just kind of assuming I’m maxed out. And maybe with a newer driver with proper shaft I can increase ball speed. 

Where are you hitting the ball on the face and how consistently?

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :touredgeexotics: XCG7 Beta 15*  w/Fujikura Fuel
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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4 hours ago, GaryF said:

Interesting comments you had for BB - I’ll have to experiment some.  When I tested my driver with foresight last spring, I was measured at 95.2 SS, 134 ball speed, 13.1* launch. 2253 backspin, Peak height 75’ with a carry of 218 and 244 total.  I think I was a offline to the left tho but not sure that was all due to sidespin or my aim point was left too.  My driver is 9* and set at +1.   So maybe I should try another +1 loft?  Getting 230 carry would be amazing but just doesn’t seem possible.  

Getting greater than 230 yards of carry is absolutely achievable with a 95 MPH driver clubhead speed; in fact, you could probably get 245-248 yards by optimizing those numbers a bit more. It’s not that those numbers are bad, but your ball speed could go about 10 MPH higher without increasing your clubhead speed, and that alone would add about 15 more yards.  I know this to be the case because my driver clubhead speed generally ranges from 94 to 97.5 MPH, and I get about 235-240 yards of carry on my drives (my lowest carry distance if I am not hitting into a headwind is 227-229 yards, and when I really go after it I get 245-250 yards of carry, or more.

By increasing your launch angle a couple more degrees, you’ll almost surely get more “hang time”, resulting in more carry distance if you keep your spin numbers n the same area that you are seeing. However, I’m not sure you’ll see quite as much roll-out, as your peak drive height is about 25’ to 30’ lower than what I like to see.

I really cannot say whether you need more than 10* of loft on your driver. With the type of spin numbers you are getting — which is excellent, by the way — I suspect that you are making contact above the center of the face … maybe a little toward the toe side, too? However, you are most likely not “hitting up” on the ball with your driver. If you can do that, and get to at least a 2 to 3 degree upward AOA, you’ll definitely increase your smash factor, launch angle, peak height on your drives, etc. — as long as your driver face is square and the club path is good.

EDIT: Sam (a/k/a chisag) was clearly typing his reply as I was typing this one. The bottom number of the three for a 95 MPH clubhead speed in that chart is basically representative of my best swings (I have a maximum AOA of +4*), and those numbers are very close to my maximum drives in benign conditions.

Edited by funkyjudge

DR - Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - Callaway Paradym 3HL, Newton Motion Fairway shaft, 4-Dot

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Sub 70 849, ProForce Black 80-S

Irons - Callaway Paradym, HZRDUS Silver Gen 4, S-flex

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - (currently in flux, but usually an Evnroll 8V

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023)

Bags - Ghost Golf Maverick Black Ops

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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14 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

IMG_0005.jpeg.dd929101b11f0b1d99336879fcacd66e.jpeg

Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to tweak that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

IMG_3684.jpeg.1877e1a464265411772af56a81819080.jpeg

Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

IMG_0003.jpeg.29eeca20899619cb92d69cc36307ed29.jpeg

… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

IMG_3674.jpeg.44ce75232fe3aa32d422f49bb247cc23.jpeg

That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

IMG_3666.jpeg.6468e1c24913e9b5e7ed32920132a89e.jpeg

The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

IMG_3681.jpeg.d3038c7f9f41dc4aca26b3db97cf8127.jpeg

In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

IMG_0004.jpeg.deadf9d9d6c3f0f8d9c904cf730921cc.jpeg

<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

 

14 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

UPDATE: A Fitting Adventure for Free

Heyo!

Thanks all for your suggestions, opinions, recommendations. I thought I’d give an update on the topic.  Perhaps this might be helpful to folks at my stage, and perhaps this is familiar path you taken before me.

TLDR: I had a fun journey, and I bought a new driver.

The Complete Opposite of TLDR …

I did some research based on your collective input and decided my course of action would be to first take the free session. If I felt the need to go further I’d still have time to book an appointment at Cool Clubs or PGATSS.

In case you’re interested, I game a Ping G410 Plus, 10.5°, with a Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60 stiff shaft. I swing my club in the 89-92 mph range, and I have a suspicion that a stiff shaft is doing me a disservice.

The Golf Mart—Hello, Old Friend

The Golf Mart in South San Francisco has long been a favorite place of mine because they have a decent selection of left-handed clubs. They were open an hour earlier than PGATSS, so I walked in with my driver, browsed through a wall rack full of left-handed drivers, selected a couple in my price range and went to the hitting bay. The guy there was helpful in a very low pressure way. They offer a very basic free fitting, but for a full fitting they refer people to their partner, Cool Clubs.

After a time of hitting, I started favoring the Cobra LTDX Max with a UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g regular flex shaft. He checked my numbers on Foresight and adjusted the head to 9°. Surprisingly, it helped. I actually saw an improvement in the distance. but when compared to my G410 Plus, I wasn’t seeing a significant difference. 

PGA Tour Superstore—My Personal Space Odessey

I headed out to PGATSS, walked up to the bay and asked for the free fitting. 

“Sure, no problem!” the man said. Unfortunately, the first 20 minutes was spent trying to convince any or all of the three hitting bays that it’s okay to recognize a ball teed up for a left-handed golfer. It found the ball on the right side of the mat, just not the left.

“It was working fine before,” he smiled apologetically. “Just last night we had a left-handed golfer hitting in here.”

Uh-huh.

After a period of booting and rebooting, plugging and unplugging, pleading and praying, Foresight finally deemed to validate me. 

Thank you, Foresight. I take this ball and set it upon the tee.

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<I see you.>

And I see you seeing me. 

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<You may hit the ball.>

Thank you. And thank you for not making me offer to sacrifice my treasured pair of left-handed scissors at the altar of your presence. 

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< … >

So, off we go.

Again, the gentleman there was pleasant and low pressure. I explained that I was wanting to find out if I could tweak my current driver in any way to optimize its performance and my yardage. After hitting some balls, he looked at my numbers and said that my ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate were all in the right range. I asked him about whether I should consider a different shaft considering my club head speed.  So he had me try my Ping clubhead with a regular flex shaft five grams lighter than my own. Shaft specs and brand talk are not included in a free fitting.

I’m not a great hitter by any stretch, but my dispersion seemed to get worse. He said that since I’ve had the club for a few years, it’s not surprising that I’m able to hit it well enough. Then for kicks he had me try the G430 max. The results were no different from that of my G410 plus.

“No better than your G410 Plus? That must be a solid driver,” he chuckled. I read that response a couple ways: 

  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations.
  • There’s not that much difference between driver iterations for someone at my skill level.

By then, I needed to get on my way, so I thanked him for his time.

Conclusion

This experience has taught me that right handers make the world I live in, it’s time for revolution, and I think I’m the one most capable to bring down this oppressive regime. 

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Rise up, southpaws everywhere! 
United, we can bring about a better way of golfing. 
The left way of golfing!
In words of the great César Chavez:
Si, se puddle! 
Puddle! 
PUDDLE! 
Dammit! … puede.

All right, I’ll table that for now.

Second, More Relevant Conclusion

I’ve come to realize that for the most part, “free fitting” means I ask questions, and they respond or react. They drop by the bay on occasion and check-in, so there’s no one tracking me in real time. The people are very helpful, but I need to know what to ask in order to get the most out of any fitting.

Also, I saw firsthand how to take advantage out of a free fitting. While I was swinging away, a customer walked in the door. I gathered that he’s a regular, since the first thing everyone said to each other was, “Morning!” And “Bill, can you set me up? I want to try that HZRDUS Smoke shaft this time!” 

Smart. This regular has built a relationship with the in-house fitter one free session at a time. To @GaryF’s point, it’s best to take advantage of many free fittings to build an education of what I need to know, and I appreciate the way he went about educating himself.  I’ll need to tweak that strategy a bit, since from what I’ve seen at the only golf chain store in Denmark, LH club selection is very limited. I’ll likely pay for a fitting and advice sooner than later. 

At both places, I know one thing that goes without saying: I need more practice driving. I’m not blind to the fact that my perfect swing shows up 3 out of 10 times. Foresight doesn’t care if I can’t handle the truth.

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<You can’t handle the truth.>

I just said that—

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<Those three swings were hardly perfect.>

Man. I can feel another revolution coming on.

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<What was that?>

I said, Thank you, Foresight. I humbly accept your wealth of knowledge and foresight into my swing—hey! “Foresight”—I just got that.

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[rolls all-seeing eyes upward]

The truth is, I’m a tinkerer at heart. When motivated enough, I’ll do research on my own, ask for input from folks in the forum, ruminate, put something together and try it out. If it works, huzzah! I’m a genius. If not, I’ll go back, evaluate and figure out next steps. @GolfSpy_APH’s how-to articles have peaked my interest, and I have time and space to tinker. What I do need is more knowledge … and another driver to play with.

So I decided not to book a fitting appointment. Instead, I opted to play a round of golf. 

To be clear: I’m not saying no to the experience of getting fitted—I’m just saying, another time after I’m back home. I want to feel more comfortable going into the session knowing what numbers I have and what numbers I want. I want to have a conversation, and not just stare blankly while receiving information. Besides, I think I’ve shared enough personal information with Foresight for one trip.

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<Your mother wished you were a doctor.>

How did you know that?!

Third Conclusion, Time to Play

After a week, I circled back to The Golf Mart I couldn’t stop thinking about that dramatic increase in distance with the Cobra LTDX Max and UST Helium shaft after the sales guy shifted the head to 9°. I realized that if I want more experience—and have a more informed conversation—I need to play and compare on my own time. I grabbed a few more drivers with a regular shaft off the rack and started hitting again. I wish I took pics of my results so I could be more precise. I had targets in my head, such as launch angle (13-16 degrees), spin rate (mid 2000s) and distance (240-250 yards). 

Again, I narrowed my selection down to what was available in my price range and what was feeling right at ball strike. I kept our trusty bay attendant/sales guy in the loop, discussing what each club felt like, and he would rummage through the lefty section and bring something for me to try. Cobra stood out, so I focused on their drivers. 

I’m an noob about shafts. I’m not sure how precise shaft weight is in each driver, so I tracked down the shafts’ specs on their respective websites. This is how I ended up ranking them.

Third place: LTDX Max with UST Helium Nanocore 5F3 55g

Runner-up: RadSpeed Driver with Fujikura Motore X F3 67g

The Winner: AEROJET with Mitsubishi Kai’li 60 64g

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Like a hot knife through butter. I really hope this isn’t just new driver euphoria I’m feeling, but, wow. I mean, it felt like … 

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… you know?

There’s a magic number of carry yardage in my head that I’d like to get to—because I think it’s within reach. This driver just might be my Mjölnir (or my stepping stone to it).

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That first strike was so clean, that second strike was so crisp. That third strike hooked right like a boomerang, but that fourth strike found that fairway and then some. The moment I felt that, I was reminded why I haven’t enjoyed driver shopping. It’s no fun searching for a needle in a haystack, and somehow I found something I think that I can work with.

How did I get here?

Of course, it’s not entirely all by chance. I have been reading about people’s experiences with their drivers, and Cobra has been on my list of clubmakers to try.

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The Kai’li 60 is almost the same weight as my Ping’s Tensei CK Orange 63g, but when comparing the swing, I don’t know—it feels better balanced, I suppose, easier to get to my targets. It felt as though the Cobra driver was working with me, instead of me fighting to control it.

The LTDX Max was good, but not as good as the AEROJET. The RadSpeed was a serious contender. Its balance in the swing was very similar, and the numbers looked good. Reflecting on it, I can see how a fitting session would help me decide by going through a few different setups and fine-tuning of either driver. I surely would have made a more informed decision. If anything I’d get outside confirmation or feedback.

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In the end I went by first impressions and the >SMACK< heard from the ball off the AEROJET’s face.

Next Steps

I’m off to the simulator first chance I get. I’m going to gather more info from the G410 and the AEROJET and see if the magic total distance number I saw really is within reach, and whether I can reach it consistently.

Not to throw too many variables out in the air, but  I’m also going to experiment with the grip. Since switching to a midsize grip with my irons, I feel a little more control in my leading hand. It’s time to find out whether what I read applies to me and the rest of my clubs.

If you made it this far …

… thanks for indulging me. Let me know what you think about my thought process. Is this relatable? Are there other aspects of the club I should be aware of? Is there a resource worth reading or tracking down? Is there a gaping hole in my thinking that needs attention and/or a reality check? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

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<Your wife is tolerating this endeavor. For now.>

You’re freaking me out.

I think your process needs some work, however you are doing what you have to do, having some fun... your writing is excellent lol...

Track your performance on the golf course then focus on your area of most opportunity, be that fairways in regulation, greens in regulation or putts per green. 

 

committed to performance excellence

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Where are you hitting the ball on the face and how consistently?

Good question.  Generally in the center give or take 1/4” or so and I know every 1/8 inch makes a measurable difference.  The drive stats I cited was what I felt was as good as I can do. I’m pretty consistent as my firs range from 82-85% and my misses are almost always playable. If I have a very short drive that hits the fairway, I count it as a short miss.   Every once in awhile I’ll hit low on the face or the toe and get immediate feedback.  The low hits usually give me ok distance but the toe hits seeme to catty pretty well with a draw and maybe longer than normal rollout. A lot if things here to consider now. 

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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10 minutes ago, GaryF said:

Good question.  Generally in the center give or take 1/4” or so and I know every 1/8 inch makes a measurable difference.  The drive stats I cited was what I felt was as good as I can do. I’m pretty consistent as my firs range from 82-85% and my misses are almost always playable. If I have a very short drive that hits the fairway, I count it as a short miss.   Every once in awhile I’ll hit low on the face or the toe and get immediate feedback.  The low hits usually give me ok distance but the toe hits seeme to catty pretty well with a draw and maybe longer than normal rollout. A lot if things here to consider now. 

Interesting that you were are a 1/4" off with a smash factor of 1.4.   Need to figure out how to get the ball speed up with that driver speed.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :touredgeexotics: XCG7 Beta 15*  w/Fujikura Fuel
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Thank you @chisag, @funkyjudge, and @cnosil.  All good things to consider.  I don’t have a LM (maybe should be on my bday list) but I strongly suspect my AoA on my good drives is close to +0.  I haven’t played since early Dec as I park the clubs in exchange for working on conditioning.  I did that last year but once I started playing I mostly stopped the workouts.  By mid summer I was feeling out of condition.  I’ve had a few range sessions recently and have a lot to work on just to get the right sequence feel. 

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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12 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Interesting that you were are a 1/4" off with a smash factor of 1.4.   Need to figure out how to get the ball speed up with that driver speed.  

Well, the 1/4” was a “general” answer.  The data I listed was my last drive of that sequence and I remember telling the fitter that was as good as I get with a nice slight draw, so it was probably a center hit. But when I was typing the data in the message, ball speed appeared to be an issue and AoA likely needs improving. Among other things lol. 

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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49 minutes ago, GaryF said:

Thank you @chisag, @funkyjudge, and @cnosil.  All good things to consider.  I don’t have a LM (maybe should be on my bday list) but I strongly suspect my AoA on my good drives is close to +0.  I haven’t played since early Dec as I park the clubs in exchange for working on conditioning.  I did that last year but once I started playing I mostly stopped the workouts.  By mid summer I was feeling out of condition.  I’ve had a few range sessions recently and have a lot to work on just to get the right sequence feel. 

Spray the face with foot powder spray. Then google diy driver tuneup and follow that to dial in the driver. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Spray the face with foot powder spray. Then google diy driver tuneup and follow that to dial in the driver. 

I will do that, thanks!

:callaway-small: Driver: Fusion, 9 deg, UST Recoil 450 ES F3/2

:ping-small: 430 MAX 4w (5w head delofted 1* with 3w shaft), 7w, 5h w/ Alta CB Soft Regular shaft

:mizuno-small: JPX923 HM 6i - GW w/ UST Recoil 460 ESX F3

:cleveland-small: RTX6 52* and 56* with Recoil 760 ESX F2 

:odyssey-small: Versa DB DoubleWide 

:srixon-small:: Z-Star Tour

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I’d recommend paid, shaft if way to important to be over looked. I did a fitting at Golf Galaxy and it was a waste of my time. Spent the entire time telling me my launch angle was too high, only for me to realize afterwards the only shaft he gave me was a Ventus Red. Ended up just picking a random Low-mid launch shaft (motore X) on my own and the stealth 2+….its fine but wish I had gone somewhere and gotten a true fitting. 

WITB:

  • :taylormade-small: Stealth 2+ 
  • :taylormade-small: Brnr Mini Driver
  • :taylormade-small: GAPR Mid 3 Iron
  • :mizuno-small: JPX 923 Forged 5-PW 
  • :taylormade-small: 54 Degree MG5
  • :taylormade-small: SW Rocketballz Max
  • :taylormade-small: 60 Degree Hi Toe Raw
  • :taylormade-small: TP Reserve M21
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Hey all, thanks for taking the time to read my update. Glad you enjoyed it. It was a fun time, and all of it was helpful to get far enough to write something down to get some feedback and insight—which you’ve all offered. You have my appreciation for that and for your high praise.

@Rob Person No novels, but you never know—there might be a story coming out about AI taking over our world, one hitting bay at a time. 

@RickyBobby_PR Thanks for the initial feedback on the shaft characteristics. I could use a primer to better understand them.

@GaryF My magic number for carry distance is 240 yards. Maybe it’s vanity, but this year some things are running in my favor to get my driving on track. I’m currently a member of a indoor golf sim place where I can practice on Trackman and record some stats, and I’m slotted as a tester for Fit For Golf Training App which I’m planning to use as a launch pad to start myself training regularly.

14 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Great read, Bob!  Your thought process is certainly on the right track. I am a Professional Clubfitter, with 33 years of experience and several years working on the various pro golf tours in the equipment trailers. I have fitted golfers ranging from absolute beginners (a great movie, starring David Bowie, but that’s not relevant here) to various PGA professionals, including Matt Kuchar, Gary Woodland, Padraig Harrington (an absolute blast to work with), and several others (a few of whom were not such fun as “customers”).

The target numbers that you had in mind (13-16 degrees of launch, mid-2000s in backspin and 240-250 yards total distance … at least, I am assuming total distance and not carry distance at your clubhead speed range) are very much appropriate. In fact, if the spin numbers stay below 2,500 RPM you should seek the higher launch angle of about 16 degrees. With that type of backspin, you’ll get more carry distance with 16* of launch rather than 13*, all other factors being equal.  However, if your backspin rate creeps up much above 2,600 to 2,700 RPM, you open up the potential for “ballooning” in your tee shots with the higher launch angle.

I am guessing that you new “magic numbers” for well-struck drives are somewhere around 15-16  degree launch angle, 2,250 RPM backspin, and maybe 230 yards of carry distance (you may be able to get to 240-245 yards of carry on “perfect” strikes, but everything is going to need to be darned near perfect, including club path, face angle at impact, proper upward angle of attack, etc.

Continue having fun with your quest! When you get all of the factors right, and find the clubhead/shaft/grip/ length/ weight combination that gives you that “perfect fit”, all of your experimentation and free (or paid) fitting sessions are worth the effort … and then some!

Incidentally, that Tensei Orange AV shaft that you have used in the past is a counter-balanced shaft, which is both a good fit and a necessity in Ping drivers because of the fact that Ping has the heaviest driver heads in the industry. The same counterbalanced shaft can be a poor fit in most other drivers with “normal” clubhead weights.

This helps a great deal, thanks much. I’ve got a clearer idea on what I should be looking for. And yes, your guess of my magic number is pretty spot on. I want 240. To @Jim Shaw‘s point, I also want accuracy and consistency on the fairway. 

10 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

Track your performance on the golf course then focus on your area of most opportunity, be that fairways in regulation, greens in regulation or putts per green. 

I definitely have opportunity in those areas—some days too much, in fact. Last year I’d been working on my short game and putting with a 9-hole, par 3/4 course, and this year I’m planning to get some fairway time on an 18-hole course. As a matter of practice I scribble down those stats, but I haven’t set goals to them yet.

12 hours ago, hoppman said:

All advice I gave was for RIGHT handers, sorry, throw everything I said previously out the window.😁

There’s always a place for you in our revolution!😂

Thanks, again, all! I’ll update this again when I have some new numbers from the golf sim.

Edited by berkeleybob

WITB 2024

DRIVER Cobralogo.png.5257fd97d99f057b9bfc81c06d7fcc62.png AEROJET 10.5°  |  FAIRWAY Callawaylogo.png.c084288fc4a8ed17e2f93c60b519702c.png ROGUE ST MAX 3/15°
HYBRID Pinglogo.png.11947cc88c8641d62e0a99c26da08b18.png G410 21°  |  UTILITY Untitled-9(1).png.4964fe6cb2103eef562fd832a625b0d5.png 699 V2 U 5/23°
IRONS Untitled-9(1).png.4964fe6cb2103eef562fd832a625b0d5.png 699 V2 6-PW
WEDGES Clevelandgolflogo.png.9b2e702587cd5230010a835ced0f97a0.png CBX 2 50°, 54°, 58°
PUTTER Cobralogo.png.5257fd97d99f057b9bfc81c06d7fcc62.png KING GRANDSPORT 35

BALL WilsonStafflogo.png.d0d70a74fad1e8f9c4d9f0581e24d31e.pngMODEL | Vicelogo.png.ac8ca0040252d91a9cdaef9d94e6284b.png PRO WHITE/BLUE ICE
BAG Sunmountainlogo.png.2555e0c0e8e49c09ea72c6df224aa0f2.png 3.5 LS  |  PUSHCART Roviclogo.png.ebc800ac4238271b0253c238793522de.png RV1S

2024 Fit For Golf Training App Review

 

 

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