How Is torque measured, static or dynamic?

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Time for a new thread on torque questions.  Do shaft makers use a static or a dynamic test?  Is anybody using supercomputer tech to measure torque?  And now that we are well into shafts with distinctly different sections, what part of a shaft does a torque number measure?  And finally if I take a shaft to 5 different company labs, will the torque number measure the same?

 

Are torque numbers more useful only within a company's own product line, or can I really use a Fujikura torque number and a Graphite Design number and compare them?  I know that flex is subjective across companies, a given shaft might be called reg at one company and stiff at another.   

[GolfSpy_APH]

While I know the basics - overall this is beyond my pay grade. 

The world of shafts is a little beyond me and there are is much that is different between brands and how they do this or that it is a bit if a crap shoot.

Hopefully some others more knowledgeable than me can chime in!

[jaskanski]

The truth is nobody knows. Torque is a misnomer anyway because it relates to a force which should be measured in ft/lbs, but instead the figure given for shafts is in degrees.

Nobody knows what force is applied to the shaft to record a measurement of deflection, nobody knows how long the fulcrum is to apply the force, the velocity of the force, how long the shaft is, and nobody knows knows if the force is sustained or timed. Nobody will say if the deflection in degrees is an upper limit (before the shaft will break), an mean/average figure, or a standard deviation.

Each OEM may well have their own method of how 'torque' is calculated - and how it is applied in terms of rating for each shaft. In general terms 'low torque' shafts will tend to feel harsh and boardy, 'high torque' shafts will tend to feel softer and looser. That in turn is a product of how they are constructed - you can't have a 'high torque' shaft that is heavy and has an uber stiff tip, and you can't have a 'low torque' shaft that is very light with a soft tip. Think about how a shaft is made with multiple plys of fiber and how those plys are placed and you'll get a picture of how 'torque' generally mirrors the profile of the shaft and it's weight to flex ratio.

Which in turn doesn't apply to steel shafts - because most are around the 1.1 - 2 degrees of 'torque' mark but feel anything but harsh or boardy. Probably because steel is an entirely different material, not made of multiple plys and more malleable.

So in summary, 'torque' is all talk.

[cnosil]

All I know is that it is another non standard measurement in the golf industry and that most knowledgeable people will say torque is about personal feel.  The below article seems to give the same thoughts expressed above

 

https://mygolfspy.com/news-opinion/shaft-101-torque/

[funkyjudge]

"Torque", which indeed is a misnomer, as it really refers to resistance to twisting when it comes to golf shafts, is measured differently by virtually all manufacturers.  There are some companies, and independent testing facilities that have very sophisticated computerized machines that measure "torque" in shafts, and others that use very rudimentary devices.  Because of this, "torque" is really not a very consistent measure from one shaft manufacturer to another.

[Donn lost in San Diego]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:46 AM, funkyjudge said:

"Torque", which indeed is a misnomer, as it really refers to resistance to twisting when it comes to golf shafts, is measured differently by virtually all manufacturers.  There are some companies, and independent testing facilities that have very sophisticated computerized machines that measure "torque" in shafts, and others that use very rudimentary devices.  Because of this, "torque" is really not a very consistent measure from one shaft manufacturer to another.

Thanks, that is the first and most important answer.  Comparing torque numbers within a company is useful, comparing Fujikura number to UST Mamiya is less useful?  Comparing the best torque of Fujikura to the best of UST tells us a little useful info, but even then are not directly comparable.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Even the amount of times where torque is measured varies between companies. They can be done on different sides, near the spine or away from it that can produce different results. Just a tricky thing to properly gauge all around. 

[Zahid]

Why we (the companies) are making things so complicated !!! 

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 3/15/2024 at 8:08 AM, cnosil said:

All I know is that it is another non standard measurement in the golf industry and that most knowledgeable people will say torque is about personal feel.  The below article seems to give the same thoughts expressed above

 

https://mygolfspy.com/news-opinion/shaft-101-torque/

 

On 3/15/2024 at 8:46 AM, funkyjudge said:

"Torque", which indeed is a misnomer, as it really refers to resistance to twisting when it comes to golf shafts, is measured differently by virtually all manufacturers.  There are some companies, and independent testing facilities that have very sophisticated computerized machines that measure "torque" in shafts, and others that use very rudimentary devices.  Because of this, "torque" is really not a very consistent measure from one shaft manufacturer to another.

These posts are correct.

Ive been to two different shaft manufacturers for a visit. Both measure differently. 
 

Whenever a discussion about torque or flex comes up I regret not videoing swings of me or those I was with when trying to swing a shaft that measured 2.1 for torque and was labeled stiff flex and even when the slowest guy in the group swung it the shaft looked like a noodle.