Graphite Design Tour AD Shafts - 2024 Forum Review

[yungkory]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy AFG said:

I know I still owe some unboxing and first impressions; I'm sitting in the Salt Lake City airport right now and hope to get home in time to pick it up from the clubhouse tonight...left it to be built up this past Sunday.

I've been doing some testing though, sort of.  I'll be the first to admit this is not at all scientifically precise, but I charted my drives across 3 rounds with the PING G430 Max 10K with the stock PING Tour 2.0. I tracked total distance, FIR, right or left miss, and whether or not I was still in play with an open approach shot. (In other words, I was trying to track if I missed so bad I was in jail.). Bit of an eye chart but here it is...

I'll say it right now, to this point I'm unimpressed with the PING and with the stock PING Tour 2.0.  I'm hitting it pretty poorly and not very far, and putting aside the whole "it's the Indian not the Arrow" thing I am really really hoping the GD wakes this thing up.  (I'd been hitting my TSR2 with a Ventus much better than this.)

We'll see pretty soon.

Jeez what happened on this one

 

[GolfSpy AFG]

3 hours ago, yungkory said:

Jeez what happened on this one

 

Yeah, that one was dead nuts with a little baby draw.  Need more like that one for sure.

 

[DukeStKing]

I took the AD VR to the range today after getting my numbers off a launch monitor this week, knowing I needed to get the launch up with the G430 10k. I set the driver to the big + which puts the loft at 12*, and closes the face. And…. 
…. the launch did look a lot better and I was hitting some really nice draws. I know if I hit the bottom of the net at the end of the range it’s a 230 carry. I was hitting a third of the way up, which I would estimate at closer to 240. A couple hit halfway up, which would be closer to 250. Not one of my drives missed right and almost everyone was hit with a draw- unfortunately a few hooks and a couple of duck hooks. In those cases I did hit them considerably off the toe- the beauty of the 10k is that those shots are not that punishing as they would be with other drivers. It was a very promising session. 
Looking forward to confirm the results on the course tomorrow. Stay tuned. 
 

[GolfSpy AFG]

I called the clubhouse when I landed and my shaft isn’t ready!  That’s 5 days!  I try to be a nice guy and told them no rush; maybe that was a mistake.  

Hopefully it’s ready today.

[NM01]

On 7/13/2024 at 12:12 PM, GolfSpy_BNG said:

Got some quick data this morning as the only guy near the course for a bit. Took the Flightscope Mevo Plus with me. I just did a quick setup instead of the full monte. The distance was off a little but overall flight seemed good.

 

The combo of the VF and Callaway Smoke AI TD Max was lights out.  Lead to a 37/36 +1 day. Hit 8/14 fairways but the others never strayed more than a few yards off.

 

 Even had this beauty into the 296 par 4 6th. Nothing like landing on and sticking it for an eagle putt. Tap in birdie. 

20.5° of dynamic loft?

pretty big difference in club path and face to path and 15 yards of movement right. Is interesting too.

Some nice generous fairways with almost 30 yards of roll. I need some courses like that 

 

[Nick_D]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:53 AM, Nick_D said:

I played 27 holes yesterday with the CQ with mixed feelings. Similar to a few of my other fellow testers I was not seeing a two way miss which was nice, but my miss right was almost unmanageable. I would put what felt like a good swing on it and get up to my ball and see I was 10-20 yards short of my playing partners that I normally can keep up with. I'm definitely working on my swing to get rid of the high wipey slice that has a ton of spin, but my previous Maltby shaft seemed to bail me out of the super high spin misses. I'll need to spend some time on the launch monitor and see if I can reproduce what I saw yesterday!

When I look at my FIR% it doesn't seem near as bad as it felt. I played 9 holes at my home club in the morning and of the 7 fairways I only used driver 5 of them. Of those 5 I only hit 1 fairway, but I really can't blame the shaft for most of the misses as I had just put bad swings on them. For the next 18 holes I went and played a skins game at Harbor Shores and I can tell you it was WINDY. 

I used Driver everywhere I could and hit 7/13 fairways. However, of the 6 drives that missed the fairway......... 5 of them went in the water or out of bounds 

Overall, mixed feelings so far. I know my swing is to blame for most of my problems so I'm looking forward to seeing improvement over the next few weeks with the CQ. The good drives are good, but the bad ones are worse than I'm used to. League night tonight at my home club and we'll see how it goes!

League night last night at my club was interesting.. I hit a drive on the range and it was dead straight right where I aimed, great! Line up to hit one more and my grip wasn't lined up with the club face anymore  The epoxy must not have cured properly or who knows what happened. Luckily I live 3 mins from the course so I went home and grabbed my old shaft to play with. It ended up being a great comparison after what I saw the previous day. I hit 2/7 fairways and missed all the others right.. So that confirms me knowing I just need to work on my swing to see the results I'm looking for and my old shaft wasn't saving me as much as I thought. I'm going to spend some time in the garage sim working on my swing and start collecting some data as well!

[GolfSpy_BNG]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

20.5° of dynamic loft?

pretty big difference in club path and face to path and 15 yards of movement right. Is interesting too.

Some nice generous fairways with almost 30 yards of roll. I need some courses like that 

 

You have to take these number with a grain of salt. As I mentioned this was one the first tee with no warm up and no time to properly setup the Mevo Plus. I just wanted some quick numbers.  
 

Curious though without seeing my swing what numbers do you think should I see?  Is 15 yards of fade bad? 

30 yards of roll is the sim roll not what I seen when I grabbed the balls but almost all were in the fairway so I guess that’s good

[NM01]

28 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

You have to take these number with a grain of salt. As I mentioned this was one the first tee with no warm up and no time to properly setup the Mevo Plus. I just wanted some quick numbers.  
 

Curious though without seeing my swing what numbers do you think should I see?  Is 15 yards of fade bad? 

30 yards of roll is the sim roll not what I seen when I grabbed the balls but almost all were in the fairway so I guess that’s good

Gotcha on the setup. As for your numbers there’s some good and some bad. Without lookin at the swing I would expect to see about that 15 yard movement of the ball. Your path is pretty far left. The 15 yards on most courses is roughly 1/2 a fairway so it could be fine depending on your target and if it’s a pull fade or a push fade. A pull fade that’s pretty easy to take down the left side and have it come back towards the middle. A push fade which is my right miss for me cuts off the left side and I can’t end up in trouble if I get that similar size of movement. Looks like based on some of your posts in this thread your hitting a decent amount of fairways, for me I don’t concern myself with that number too much but more so looking at do I have a good shot at the green or am I in trouble off the tee.

Your definite sacrificing  distance with these type of numbers and a smash of 1.43. If the face contact reading shown is correct you are pretty high on the face which is where some of that 17° launch is coming from but what keeps spin in that roughly 2000 range. Its not a bad spin number but it gets into that area where it can hurt more than help.

You may get some gear affect there the at reduces the amount of lateral movement too.

37/36 round is pretty good so your not getting hurt really from the ball flight, but it maybe what causes the couple of bad drives you mentioned. 
 

sorry for the long reply and maybe a bit all over the place. 

[WaffleHouseTour]

Second time out on the course this morning.  Out of 13 tee shots, 11 ended up on or left of my target line. Some more so than others but all in play.  That’s a new experience for me and I’m adjusting.  Again, probably a more appropriate shaft flex for me and I’m getting the face closed. 
 

I feel like I’m getting more elevation. I wish I had a way to record real on course launch data. Looks like I’m launching it higher. I may have to take the Mevo to the course some morning and hit a dozen off one of the tees mid round if no one is behind me. 
 

I am definitely “feeling” the weight of the head more at the fullest extension of the backswing. I didn’t feel anything with the Hzrdous. 
 

The most important number here is that ^1.6 SG better than my last twenty round average.  That’s the number I’ll be keeping my eye on for the next little while.

[DukeStKing]

Played 18 at my alma mater, Rutgers. It’s one of my favorite courses- great lay-out and flat. 

The fact that it’s flat gave me great feedback for what the Graphite Design Tour AD VR can do. I have to say, the story of this shaft is really beginning to unfold for me. I played the first 9 in the big + (12 degrees). I felt like I was not getting enough role because of a steep angle of decent, so I switched to the small + (11.5) and that seem to help with some more roll. Everything was either straight as an arrow or a nice baby draw with a high ball flight. Adjusting the loft seemed to really work to help increase my launch angle. Here’s one that I cut the corner with by hitting it over a giant maple tree: 

That tree the ball went over just to the left of the fairway is probably about 65-75 feet tall and I cleared it with room to spare. So I’m really seeing what GD is saying about this shaft play out now that I’m playing it in the more ideal settings for me with my G430 10k. This was not an exciting shot, but also very telling:

The fact that it ended up in the bunker gave me the exact carry distance (240). This was a nice high draw that I started on the wrong line. The ball flight was beautiful with the driver all day. So much so, one of my playing partners asked if I had played college golf at RU. Looking at my scorecard, it’s funny that he would ask that:

I think the nice high draws I was hitting with the driver impressed him, because it sure wasn’t the scores I was putting up. (I did get some bad breaks on the back 9 with my approach shots).

I lost only one shot when I swung out of my shoes on this par 5 which has been my nemesis since my college days:

This was a bad swing on a hole that has always been in my head. Fortunately, I had an opening that I was able to hit a 7 iron through, which landed just in front of the brook that crosses in front of the green- got my par. I put a much better swing on one that I went aggressively at here:

My point is, like the UB, the AD VR can handle your aggressive swings and doesn’t feel boardy when you let-up a bit; this is what I love about the Graphite Design shafts. The stability and good dispersion are really adding to the benefits of the PING G430 10k. 

Edited July 20 by DukeStKing

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Played this morning and while I score well I didn’t hit the same 12/14 fairways this time. lol. I did manage 8 FIR and was never in trouble where I didn’t have a 2nd shot in.  

The VF/TD Max is definitely longer on average than the Aretera/PXG is.  I had a few 300 yard drives today that were almost all carry.  As I get more and more comfortable with the VF the swing speed is climbing back up.

 I’m hoping to get some Mevo Plus time where I can switch back and forth between the Aretera and VF in the TD Max.   I very much prefer the active feel of the VF. 
 

Here is a picture of the 563y par 5 dogleg right 4th. Managed to cut the corner and find the middle of the fairway 220 out.  If I could bottle this up I’d groundhog day this feeling over and over.  

[Josh Parker]

23 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

Played this morning and while I score well I didn’t hit the same 12/14 fairways this time. lol. I did manage 8 FIR and was never in trouble where I didn’t have a 2nd shot in.  

The VF/TD Max is definitely longer on average than the Aretera/PXG is.  I had a few 300 yard drives today that were almost all carry.  As I get more and more comfortable with the VF the swing speed is climbing back up.

 I’m hoping to get some Mevo Plus time where I can switch back and forth between the Aretera and VF in the TD Max.   I very much prefer the active feel of the VF. 
 

Here is a picture of the 563y par 5 dogleg right 4th. Managed to cut the corner and find the middle of the fairway 220 out.  If I could bottle this up I’d groundhog day this feeling over and over.  

May have found the winning combo. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Just now, Josh Parker said:

May have found the winning combo. 

Hopefully.  I did change the weights on the smoke TD Max before the round. Went with a 14 front 2 back vs the stock 10-4 trying to lower the launch a little. It for sure did via the eye test. 

[Josh Parker]

4 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

Hopefully.  I did change the weights on the smoke TD Max before the round. Went with a 14 front 2 back vs the stock 10-4 trying to lower the launch a little. It for sure did via the eye test. 

Sounds like it's getting worked out and if you can control the ball flight the way you want it, then it could be a real weapon in the bag. 

[DukeStKing]

Here we go again. 

[DukeStKing]

A tad out of focus, but I was trying to capture how striking the matte blue looks in the sunshine; a true beauty. 

[DukeStKing]

2 hours ago, DukeStKing said:

A tad out of focus, but I was trying to capture how striking the matte blue looks in the sunshine; a true beauty. 

I think this one does the paint job some justice.

Spectacular! 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

it’s still early in the process but the feel of the VF has the Aretera Alpha One Grey 65/4 being moved.  I like the more active feel of the VF better. Will be seeking out a Aretera Blue 55/4 as that may be a better comparison cuz I really think they are on to something with that company. 
 

Along with the more active feel, the VF is more left bias than the Aretera Grey and for someone that prefers to see the ball go left that’s huge.  Gonna try() to get on a trackman this week or next for some concrete numbers. 

[DukeStKing]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

it’s still early in the process but the feel of the VF has the Aretera Alpha One Grey 65/4 being moved.  I like the more active feel of the VF better. Will be seeking out a Aretera Blue 55/4 as that may be a better comparison cuz I really think they are on to something with that company. 
 

Along with the more active feel, the VF is more left bias than the Aretera Grey and for someone that prefers to see the ball go left that’s huge.  Gonna try() to get on a trackman this week or next for some concrete numbers. 

I’m also beginning to get a real sense of the VR and really like its release. Like you, I’m loving the left tendency. I’m so glad I got in a LM before I played a bunch of rounds with it and saw that I was launching it too low at 10.5 with the 10k. Now, at 11.5 I’m really getting a sense of what the VR can do. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

Got a few unboxing and first impression pics up. 

I have to admit, it's a damn good-looking shaft...

 

[WaffleHouseTour]

Got back to the practice pad yesterday.  I’m not too concerned with the rightward misses. I was trying to figure out just how much I could feather the face open - I’m hitting into a net so can’t see ball flight but I instinctively knew which ones were going where. 
 

Getting a smidge higher.  And a little bit more carry. Half the shots are in my +-15 yard wide window.  And with out cutting the shaft down I feel like I’m making good contact. Caught a few low but I’m experimenting a bit.  Got to get that spin number down  

 

 

Edited July 22 by WaffleHouseTour

[pete1276]

I've got quite a few rounds under my belt now with Izzy, and I'm starting to dial it in pretty well.  The last two rounds, I've adjusted my Mizuno ST-X 230 head down 1° to 8.5°.  With that driver loft and the high launching Tour AD IZ shaft, I believe I'm getting closer to ideal launch conditions.  I can definitely see the ball flight is a bit lower now and gaining a little bit of distance with setup.  Arccos numbers show the story.  I've gained in both distance and accuracy since the first couple of rounds:

 

It's interesting that my misses are now equally dispersed between left and right.  My home course (Baker National in Medina, MN) is a relatively tight course for driving, and many of my missed fairways are just barely in the first cut, or a yard into the rough which are very playable.

The first couple of rounds showed that I was pulling the ball more often than not, but it seems to have stabilized and I feel that I am definitely striking the ball better and more consistently.  I have noticed a couple of shots that were poorly struck and typically would have resulted in a big hook, but Izzy was there to protect me and only resulted in a slight pull draw.  

I am starting to get the impression that this shaft would be perfect for someone that likes to draw the ball, but wants to avoid hooking at all costs.  The fade bias of the shaft definitely helps with those misses.

 

Edited July 22 by pete1276

[pete1276]

My main thread has been updated with recent on course data, and a report on feel and workability.  

[NM01]

38 minutes ago, pete1276 said:

The fade bias of the shaft definitely helps with those misses.

Shafts don’t have a directional bias. Ball flight is determined by where the face is pointings the swing with and face to path relationship.

with driver 85% comes from where then face is pointing and the remaining 15% is from path. Those are determined by how the golfer swings the club. A shaft has a role in dynamic loft.

So if you are seeing a new ball flight then the shaft had an effect on your club delivery. Just as likely for you to see a fade bias someone else made see a draw bias in their flight 

[DukeStKing]

15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Shafts don’t have a directional bias. Ball flight is determined by where the face is pointings the swing with and face to path relationship.

with driver 85% comes from where then face is pointing and the remaining 15% is from path. Those are determined by how the golfer swings the club. A shaft has a role in dynamic loft.

So if you are seeing a new ball flight then the shaft had an effect on your club delivery. Just as likely for you to see a fade bias someone else made see a draw bias in their flight 

Not sure of the science behind it, but I have an easier time drawing the ball with the AD VR than the AD UB. 

[HikingMike]

4 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Got back to the practice pad yesterday.  I’m not too concerned with the rightward misses. I was trying to figure out just how much I could feather the face open - I’m hitting into a net so can’t see ball flight but I instinctively knew which ones were going where. 
 

Getting a smidge higher.  And a little bit more carry. Half the shots are in my +-15 yard wide window.  And with out cutting the shaft down I feel like I’m making good contact. Caught a few low but I’m experimenting a bit.  Got to get that spin number down  

 

 

That impact location heat map looks pretty damn good to me 

[NM01]

20 minutes ago, DukeStKing said:

Not sure of the science behind it, but I have an easier time drawing the ball with the AD VR than the AD UB. 

The science behind it is the new ball flight laws and it’s been measured by trackman.

The percentage of influence by the face goes down as the loft increases 

the difference between your ease for drawing with vr is due to it fitting your swing better. The shaft is just a timing device and has a role for weight and feel, it has an influence on dynamic loft.

https://www.golfwrx.com/275825/wishon-face-angle-is-crucial-for-a-proper-fitting/

https://www.thediygolfer.com/blog/trackman-golf-for-dummies
 

https://impactzonegolf.com/clubface-swing-path-ball-flight/

https://www.perfectgolfswingreview.net/ballflight.htm
 

[pete1276]

19 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Shafts don’t have a directional bias. Ball flight is determined by where the face is pointings the swing with and face to path relationship.

You are absolutely correct that shape is determined by impact conditions, and the shaft can influence those conditions.  

Given my swing speed, the weight, and flex of this shaft, I have found that it is easier to produce a fade with the delivery conditions than to produce a draw.  I prefer to be able to work the ball in both directions depending on the need for any given shot on the course. 

My earlier statement was more general in nature, other players may have different results.  Every player is unique and has different speed, timing and face to path conditions. 

It is also common within shaft manufacturers to refer to shafts as fade or draw biased, even though that may or may not be completely accurate for everyone.  When I stated that the shaft is fade biased, it was the short way of confirming the manufacturers' claims.  In my case, this particular shaft has influenced the impact conditions to favor a slight left to right ball path.  

[WaffleHouseTour]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Shafts don’t have a directional bias. Ball flight is determined by where the face is pointings the swing with and face to path relationship.

I'm finding the flex of the shaft is allowing/helping? me close the face more than I was with a stiffer flex.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Just saying this now. One of the points of our reviews are to test the claims of the OEM’s. Not to worry about industry standards or what a robot would do. 
 

I have see Duke with both the UB and VR. GD says the VR would be more left bias and that’s what he is seeing from what I gather.  That’s what I want to hear about. 
 

 

 

Alright now let’s get back on topic of the reviews.