What would be your teaching philosophy?

[DiscipleofPenick]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... The mental side just seems to be the last piece of the puzzle for too many golfers. I probably played 2 years before it was apparent the mental side of the game was as much or more responsible for my score than my mechanics. Understanding my limitations and playing accordingly was a key to my rapid improvement. Like I said earlier if your thought process is "I probably shouldn't do this" or "not the smartest move but why not give it a shot" kind of thoughts you just shouldn't attempt that shot. "Controlled aggression" sounds like an excellent game plan. Distance is very important in this game but only if it is accurate distance. I will take accuracy over distance every time.

 

Yes, it something I wish I would have been taught before finally figuring it out for myself in my early 30s. I started reading Bob Rotella and "Every Shot Must Have a Purpose" shortly after I took my first lessons since high school (FWIW I stopped taking lessons because the pro tried to change my swing before he'd ever seen me hit a ball). I can hit the ball 275 off the tee, and in Northern Ohio, there's only a handful of courses that even touch 7,000 yards. I can play anywhere. There's no need to try and crank up and give it extra, that just leads to an overswing duck hook.

Here's a great example - Where I played last Sunday, and again this Sunday, has two short 320 yard par 4s at #3 & #5. Now from a few years ago I would pull a 5 iron on both holes and just put it out there, should have me in wedge distance. Now I want to pull driver as these are great birdie opportunities. I can judge my confidence on the tee, and if there is any doubt I know I can back off and still be in great shape. Pulling driver is the aggression, taking a moment to check in with myself and seeing where my interal confidence sits is the controlled part. If you're not 100% committed you're 0% committed. 

Of course there's another point here, and I'd like to hear how you handle this part of the mental game, or what your approach is. I'm consciously aware of the biride holes on this course. But I need to keep that out of my mind, and not thinking about how great a birdie would be when I'm standing on the tee. I need to only focus on the shot before me and just make the swing as I know how, not trying to put it on the green or hit the perfect shot. It's not necessarily blocking out those thoughts, but more about being aware of them and being able to not let them take over your game and your body.  

[Shapotomous]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... Of course but don't sell Bens short because I am guessing with the right conditions he could blade a 9 iron 275. 

I can only seem to do that bladed thing if there is water or OB behind the green.

[chisag]

35 minutes ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

Of course there's another point here, and I'd like to hear how you handle this part of the mental game, or what your approach is. I'm consciously aware of the biride holes on this course. But I need to keep that out of my mind, and not thinking about how great a birdie would be when I'm standing on the tee. I need to only focus on the shot before me and just make the swing as I know how, not trying to put it on the green or hit the perfect shot. It's not necessarily blocking out those thoughts, but more about being aware of them and being able to not let them take over your game and your body.  

 

... To be honest every hole is a birdie hole so I never think like that. I was really in the zone last week and had 6 birdies and an eagle and did not once think of birdies or my score but just focused on every individual shot and the results took care of themselves. I did not even realize I had 6 birdies til after the round because I also sprinkled in 4 bogies. The old cliche is essential to the mental side of the game and that is you play one shot at a time. Standing on the tee you decide what the best option is and more often than not, that is long and straight with a driver. If you do that your next shot depends on how you are swinging that day and the pin location. If you decide a lay up is the right play put all your focus on exactly where you want to lay up and do your best to execute that shot because lazily thinking I can hit it most anywhere in the fairway will bite you sooner than later. Every shot you hit dictates your next shot and then you start all over again.  Birdies are the results of good execution and you can birdie the 440yd par 4 with three really good shots and bogie the 320 yd par 4 with 1 bad shot. I will also admit it is a lot easier when you play 3 to 6 times a week and if you only get to play once a weekend the discipline is much harder to maintain. 

 

[DiscipleofPenick]

23 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... To be honest every hole is a birdie hole so I never think like that. I was really in the zone last week and had 6 birdies and an eagle and did not once think of birdies or my score but just focused on every individual shot and the results took care of themselves. I did not even realize I had 6 birdies til after the round because I also sprinkled in 4 bogies. The old cliche is essential to the mental side of the game and that is you play one shot at a time. Standing on the tee you decide what the best option is and more often than not, that is long and straight with a driver. If you do that your next shot depends on how you are swinging that day and the pin location. If you decide a lay up is the right play put all your focus on exactly where you want to lay up and do your best to execute that shot because lazily thinking I can hit it most anywhere in the fairway will bite you sooner than later. Every shot you hit dictates your next shot and then you start all over again.  Birdies are the results of good execution and you can birdie the 440yd par 4 with three really good shots and bogie the 320 yd par 4 with 1 bad shot. I will also admit it is a lot easier when you play 3 to 6 times a week and if you only get to play once a weekend the discipline is much harder to maintain. 

 

Holy....every hole is a birdie hole! OMG that makes so much sense. Mind blown, thank you!!!!

Yea I get about 6 rounds a month. I was playing twice a week the last few years, but needed to pull back this season. I hope I can get back to 36 next year. It would be helpful if I could get out regularly during the week. It's tough trying to play every Sat & Sun.

[MaxEntropy]

Nice discussion, @chisag and @DiscipleofPenick! @DiscipleofPenick and I have played a fair amount of golf together the last couple years. He has helped me with decision-making (mostly avoiding the hero shot and take your medicine when in trouble and sometimes discussing what I hope to accomplish with a particular shot) and periodic observations about swing, alignment, etc. That and some of the stuff on Twitter about managing expectations has certainly helped my enjoyment and my hc has dropped a couple strokes.

[Goober]

Off the record… I do miss the instructors that worked what you had.And focused more on course strategy and fixing that. I’ve known a few chaps who improved almost immediately by just changing how they approach a round or hole.If they were slicers or hookers.. the pro would make a small stance or ball placement adjustment.Versus reworking the whole motion.These old school teachers are far and almost gone now.Maybe that is why golf handicaps in general really haven’t improved.Maybe for many just making the round more enjoyable is all they need 

[MacTourney]

3 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

Of course there's another point here, and I'd like to hear how you handle this part of the mental game, or what your approach is. I'm consciously aware of the birdie holes on this course. But I need to keep that out of my mind, and not thinking about how great a birdie would be when I'm standing on the tee. I need to only focus on the shot before me and just make the swing as I know how, not trying to put it on the green or hit the perfect shot. It's not necessarily blocking out those thoughts, but more about being aware of them and being able to not let them take over your game and your body.  

Unless I know a course I play all courses generally the same, much like some tour players do, except when coming down the stretch near the lead and needing to drop it nearer the flag by taking more risk.   It's actually a simple math exercise prior to that for courses with four par 3's, four par 5's, and the task is to par all the 3's even if you think it's a birdie hole, birdie the 5's, and let the par 4's take care of themselves.   

So if you par the 3's, and birdie the 5's, you can bogey 5 of the remaining 10 par 4's and finish with a respectable 73.   

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by MacTourney

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Goober said:

Off the record… I do miss the instructors that worked what you had.And focused more on course strategy and fixing that. I’ve known a few chaps who improved almost immediately by just changing how they approach a round or hole.If they were slicers or hookers.. the pro would make a small stance or ball placement adjustment.Versus reworking the whole motion.These old school teachers are far and almost gone now.Maybe that is why golf handicaps in general really haven’t improved.Maybe for many just making the round more enjoyable is all they need 

Why don't you think those instructors exist?  Most of the instructors I have worked with including recent instructors have worked with what I have and haven't done major swing overhauls.   I have also done playing lessons with coaches to improve overall strategy.    Maybe I find them because I have discussions with them about what I want to accomplish.   

[Goober]

56 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Why don't you think those instructors exist?  Most of the instructors I have worked with including recent instructors have worked with what I have and haven't done major swing overhauls.   I have also done playing lessons with coaches to improve overall strategy.    Maybe I find them because I have discussions with them about what I want to accomplish.   

We had a few like you mentioned. I believe two are dead and one retired for good from teaching. These guys and girls now really know their swings. Very technical and hands on for sure. In my opinion, the online golf instructor YouTube videos are way more technical than I would be able to handle. It’s like they are trying to squeeze an abundance of info into a 5-10 minute video. Almost like they are trying to hard for a first impression. But who am I to say anything 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Goober

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Goober said:

Off the record… I do miss the instructors that worked what you had.And focused more on course strategy and fixing that. I’ve known a few chaps who improved almost immediately by just changing how they approach a round or hole.If they were slicers or hookers.. the pro would make a small stance or ball placement adjustment.Versus reworking the whole motion.These old school teachers are far and almost gone now.Maybe that is why golf handicaps in general really haven’t improved.Maybe for many just making the round more enjoyable is all they need 

These type of instructors exist still and are probably more prevalent than you realize.

They are the better instructors and stand out amongst the crowd. It just takes a little effort on the golfer to find them of that’s what the golfer wants.

If there isn’t one near you there are plenty online either on skillest app or via their own website/social media. Many are doing zoom or some other media for live virtual lessons. 

[funkyjudge]

11 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Doug, you would need a 230-250 yd shot to be past the bunkers that cover about 80% of the fairway leaving a small opening on the left. I just don't understand why anyone would attempt that shot when laying up short leaves you a LW or GW. The only advantage is you don't have to hit your approach shot over a bunker. Laying up brings no trouble in play as you can miss side to see by 80 yds and a bad mishit still leaves you with a short iron in. still be OK. Attempting to play past the bunkers brings these sandless hardpan bunkers into play and all have very high lips and I am not sure I have ever seen anyone hit from one of those bunkers onto the green. Pull just a little left and you are in the desert bushes. If you saw this hole from the tee I have no doubt you would lay up. 

From your description, it sounded like the maximum distance that you would want to hit your tee shot on that hole is 200 yards (maybe less) to give you a safe layup just short of the bunkers; was I wrong about that?  Based on the yardage numbers that you gave for the hole, that would leave a shot of maybe 125 yards on a direct line to a center pin, correct?  I have no problem laying-up to that distance, as I do it on a few holes where I play in a league every Monday.  For me, a 125 yard shot is generally a 9-iron, and I'm usually pretty accurate with that club.

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

From your description, it sounded like the maximum distance that you would want to hit your tee shot on that hole is 200 yards (maybe less) to give you a safe layup just short of the bunkers; was I wrong about that?  Based on the yardage numbers that you gave for the hole, that would leave a shot of maybe 125 yards on a direct line to a center pin, correct?  I have no problem laying-up to that distance, as I do it on a few holes where I play in a league every Monday.  For me, a 125 yard shot is generally a 9-iron, and I'm usually pretty accurate with that club.

 

... I am guessing at distances as I have never played left of or over the bunkers. So yes, 200 max but 190 is the goal just to be safe as there is nothing worse than laying up only to find a little wind ya don't feel on the tee combined with your best swing and contact and the ball just creeps into the bunker. Did that once and learned my lesson. There are no middle pins because the middle of the green has about a 5 foot tier across the entire green so either below that or above that. Below usually leaves about an 85yd shot (perfect LW for me) and above usually leaves about 105-110. Now a slight mishit or some wind you don't feel or hitting a sand filled divot can leave a longer approach, so 125 is possible but nothing longer. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Cool to see this thread take off. 

I followed along for the first page then got busy and forgot to respond. 

Here goes! I do a lot of coaching in curling, with a variety of skill levels from Olympic and World Championship caliber to corporate rental groups who have never stepped on the ice before. My philosophy or method is the same but at the same time very different. In the end (in my opinion) sport is for fun and enjoyment of doing so. For corporate newbies I get through the essentials as quickly as possible (normally get 2 hours total) and get them into games to have some fun. For higher caliber teams and players it is similar in I want them to enjoy it. Of course need to be serious to an extent, but team success can be found much easier when they are enjoying their time. Individually I like to focus in on certain areas and make consistent progress with whatever we are working first before moving onto another area. 

Much like golf, curling relies heavily on consistency so if I was to say I have a overall philosophy for coaching if I was to teach more in golf it would be to simplify things while aiming to achieve consistency to aid in producing better results. Sounds a lot easier said than done. 

[Goober]

20 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

These type of instructors exist still and are probably more prevalent than you realize.

They are the better instructors and stand out amongst the crowd. It just takes a little effort on the golfer to find them of that’s what the golfer wants.

If there isn’t one near you there are plenty online either on skillest app or via their own website/social media. Many are doing zoom or some other media for live virtual lessons. 

I’m going to take my swing over haul as a new coach on a football team.The first year is like a rebuilding year.The next few years you want to start seeing some success.The info I was given has been invaluable.Just implementation has been a real struggle.I still believe it’s never the teachers fault.But just students laziness for not doing better with the info given.Or many bad students and not bad teachers.I will keep grinding with this my friend.If it doesn’t work out for my liking.Than maybe I can take a trip out and get a full in person lesson from Monte 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, Goober said:

I’m going to take my swing over haul as a new coach on a football team.The first year is like a rebuilding year.The next few years you want to start seeing some success.The info I was given has been invaluable.Just implementation has been a real struggle.I still believe it’s never the teachers fault.But just students laziness for not doing better with the info given.Or many bad students and not bad teachers.I will keep grinding with this my friend.If it doesn’t work out for my liking.Than maybe I can take a trip out and get a full in person lesson from Monte 

Like we talked about earlier I think you were taking to many lessons in a row and not getting the stuff you learned in lesson a chance to get engrained before something was being thrown at you. Imo this was both on you and the instructor.

You because you had good intentions to get lessons but just too many too soon. But more on the instructor for not telling you that but also for giving new things to work on without ensuring what he gave before was working or not.

Definitely take the time to work on the stuff he gave you. Pick one thing and focus on that then move onto the next once you are getting better with the first thing 

[TR1PTIK]

21 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

These type of instructors exist still and are probably more prevalent than you realize.

They are the better instructors and stand out amongst the crowd. It just takes a little effort on the golfer to find them of that’s what the golfer wants.

If there isn’t one near you there are plenty online either on skillest app or via their own website/social media. Many are doing zoom or some other media for live virtual lessons. 

A buddy I golf with regularly started taking lessons. At first, he went to some guy who charges an exorbitant amount and is apparently on the Golf Digest Top 100 list or something but the first thing he wanted to do with my friend is change his grip. I thought it was kind of odd given how much swaying and extraneous movement he has in his swing that the guy would just jump to grip right off the bat. The grip he had worked with what he was doing. It's not ideal, but he can keep it in play and get the ball moving. Next round out, my buddy can't keep it in the fairway and doesn't know if it'll go straight or snap hook due to the new grip. I told him to go back to his old grip and he started playing golf like normal again. I asked if the guy was a "one swing" teacher and my buddy said "yep".

Without dragging this out much further, today my buddy told me about a lesson he had with a different instructor. This guy (much to my agreement) told him he could get to the 70's without much help - just clean up a few things. He's working with what my friend brings to the table based on his goals and my buddy is playing some spectacular golf. He clipped me by 1 stroke on the front 9 last week and had me beat by 3 or 4 strokes on the front this week! If I can just get him to stay in it on the back and not take on too much, I'm sure he'll beat me through a full round sometime in the near future.

[Goober]

Talked to my instructor this AM about this scenario. And he says he would always recommend besides golf people also take on other sports hobbies. Just to get the body prepared for an athletic movement as propelling a golf ball that doesn’t move 250 to 300 plus yards or more. It’s hard to show people an athletic way to hit a golf ball when they can’t even throw a baseball properly or even swing a baseball bat. Heck, many can barely walk as they sit in a desk all day. So many expect the world out of golf teachers. When in reality their body will never be able to even remotely come close to what they strive for.I couldn’t argue his point.How many people who want to get better we’re just never in athletics.How can you even think they can pivot properly for example.It was a very good conversation to say the least