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Summer Transition Rule


fixyurdivot

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What is your take on this?

"The player is entitled to full relief through the green (GRASS) no closer to the hole."

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Not really sure what you are asking.  Typically it means you get relief in your own fairway though.

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4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

What is your take on this?

"The player is entitled to full relief through the green (GRASS) no closer to the hole."

Honestly cant say I have ever heard of it? It is early and will try and look it up later however normally I am more a play it as it is and if there are large roots or rocks move it as my equipment and wrists are more important than trying to make a stupid shot. 

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I'm not sure how that rule works, as I've never heard of it, it is not being specific about relief from what? Unmovable obstructions? Ground under repair? Standing water?

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Based on the relief the pros get from every conceivable situation (and the drop that always is in a great lie compared to most drops I have seen on my local courses), as well as the course conditions they play on, I  have no problem with 'winter rules' in your own fairway all the time.  Also, given the condition of the vast share of our traps, rake clean and place is also a good rule to follow.

I know the golf pursists will balk, but...

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Your question is vague. As I post scores, I play it as it is. You get relief from casual water, gru, temp. Immovable obstructions,etc. In the northern areas there are posting seasons due to mostly weather conditions. Then you’re playing for fun/practice. Then do whatever you want.

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12 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

What is your take on this?

"The player is entitled to full relief through the green (GRASS) no closer to the hole."

Need more context, what you stated it isn’t a “rule” but something made up.   I am assuming that you are transitioning into the falls “leaf rule” and as the weather gets worse “winter rules”. 

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12 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

What is your take on this?

"The player is entitled to full relief through the green (GRASS) no closer to the hole."

This "rule" is worded so vaguely as to be  meaningless.  Is there a particular concern this is meant to address?  If its poor conditions overall, a better choice is to use MLR E-3 to allow relief, and the recommendation is to use E-3 only in fairways.  It certainly CAN be used everywhere, or everywhere grass is growing, but that's not ideal.  There are a number of Model Local Rules to allow relief from a variety of situations, including cracks in (dry) ground, roots, accumulations of Loose Impediments (leaf rule),  and others.  It seems like a lazy or under-informed Committee has written some kind of catch-all.

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20 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Need more context, what you stated it isn’t a “rule” but something made up.   I am assuming that you are transitioning into the falls “leaf rule” and as the weather gets worse “winter rules”. 

The courses here invoke this during overseed/transition period.  I'm going to get further clarification this morning but think it means you can roll your ball out of dirt patches and onto grass so long as your in the fairway or on/around the green.  

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6 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

The courses here envoke this during overseed/transition period.  I'm going to get further clarification this morning but think it means you can roll your ball out of dirt patches and onto grass so long as your in the fairway or on/around the green.  

I'd suggest they utilize Model Local Rule E-3, and outline the areas in which you're allowed to move your ball, and the distance you're allowed to move it.  I'm guessing they don't want to give relief for a ball in unimproved "desert" areas, only on areas covered with grass

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2 hours ago, JohnFP said:

Based on the relief the pros get from every conceivable situation (and the drop that always is in a great lie compared to most drops I have seen on my local courses), as well as the course conditions they play on, I  have no problem with 'winter rules' in your own fairway all the time.  Also, given the condition of the vast share of our traps, rake clean and place is also a good rule to follow.

I know the golf pursists will balk, but...

Our course has been without reasonable grass for a year and now they seem to be mowing only once a week.  Fairway lies vary from bare to flier.  Some are playing winter rules and several club championships have used winter rules.  It’s hard to watch the drops the pros take and think that we should play the ball as it lies!

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1 minute ago, Hacker Milt said:

Our course has been without reasonable grass for a year and now they seem to be mowing only once a week.  Fairway lies vary from bare to flier.  Some are playing winter rules and several club championships have used winter rules.  It’s hard to watch the drops the pros take and think that we should play the ball as it lies!

Aside from the moderately rare occasions when they use Model Local Rule E-3, the pros get the same drops that you do.  There's no doubt that their courses are in much better shape than the courses we play, and are better marked, but the same rules apply to all of us.  I play the ball as it lies unless a Rule allows me to take relief.  I'd be happy to play a proper match against someone who always moves his ball to a better spot, as long as we play by the Rules.  I know how to hit from a divot, from a bare spot, from fluffy lies, because I play them, and my handicap is based on playing them.

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The pros are more aggressive in pursuing drops from sprinkler heads, drains, and the like than I am.  Like you, I play the ball down and have hit some excellent shots from lies that others are rolling the ball into a better lie.  I recognize that the pros are playing for more than a couple of bucks but we are all looking for a level playing field.  I’m a volunteer course rater in Kansas and it’s really hard to fully accommodate Course conditions into a rating.

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41 minutes ago, Hacker Milt said:

The pros are more aggressive in pursuing drops from sprinkler heads, drains, and the like than I am.  Like you, I play the ball down and have hit some excellent shots from lies that others are rolling the ball into a better lie.  I recognize that the pros are playing for more than a couple of bucks but we are all looking for a level playing field.  I’m a volunteer course rater in Kansas and it’s really hard to fully accommodate Course conditions into a rating.

I guess all I want is a level playing field against the guy I'm playing today, I don't need (or want to pay for) the kind of conditions they see every week.  I have no problem in using the Relief rules to my advantage when it works out that way, the rules work against me just about as often.  

I volunteer as a Rules Official here in Virginia, and would love to get into course rating as well when there's an opening in the VSGA rating group.  With the officiating I see a pretty wide variety of conditions, from pristine private clubs to pretty average public courses.  

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8 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I'd suggest they utilize Model Local Rule E-3, and outline the areas in which you're allowed to move your ball, and the distance you're allowed to move it.  I'm guessing they don't want to give relief for a ball in unimproved "desert" areas, only on areas covered with grass

Yes, that is the intent.  What is wierd is that both the fairways and rough (grass) are in as good a condition now as I've seen them since starting play here a year ago.  Also, I just played this same course a few days ago (non-league) and there was no mention of it by the pro shop or starter.  Balls are nestling into the Bremuda rough a bit more than early summer... maybe the event leaders don't like the extra effort it takes to dig them out? ☺️

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Much like everyone else on here, I'm not quite sure what rule this is referencing or how relief is to be taken. However what I can say is that at my local course there can be a bit of the "perfect storm" going on with any given lie which is why they have the unwritten 6" bump rule in the fairway (established by the men's club). The course's mowers break down a lot. They've been renting mowers from where ever they can get them and that means that the 2-3 times a week mow job is half-a$$ed enough to get ppl playing and keeping the complaining to a minimum. On top of that, since Covid, the course has removed sand from the carts (if they ever had it I don't know b/c I walk). Additionally the area is quite rocky and not well watered. All that adds up to some pretty bad lies in the fairway as well as in the "light rough". I do agree with some of the other golfers on here that "play it as it lies" should be the order of the day but some discretion is required as well. I don't get paid to play and no on is trying to sponsor me so hitting out of a lie full of rocks doesn't make economic sense. Nor do I believe in being punished for a good drive in the fairway b/c some yahoo decided filling in their divot was too much effort. 

In the end my go-to argument is that golf is hard and how hard you let it be should be up to your handicap. If you're a 20 handicap, hitting out of the thick rough isn't teaching you anything. You're not gaining anything. You're struggling enough as it is to hit off perfect lies. Put your ball in the fairway (closest point to you) and hit from there. Keep it moving and keep it fun enough to come back and keep playing. If you're a 5 handicap... don't hit the ball in the rough 🤣. Suck it up and play. 

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